Why PS3's power will shine in 2008: Leading devs reveal PS3's untapped potential

[Jagi]

Leading developers reveal PS3's untapped potential​

PlayStation 3 will flourish in 2008 - not our words, but the emerging consensus among the global development community. With genuinely exciting exclusives flickering on the horizon (see our recent MGS4 hands-on and in-depth details) and a growing community of developers coming to grips with the possibilities on offer from the hardware, the future’s looking bright.

While some developers have been critical of PS3’s complex architecture (yes, Gabe Newell from Valve, we’re pointing at you) many more are praising the power and potential of the machine.

“The amount of action we’re able to put on the screen at 60 frames per second dwarfs what we were able to do a year ago at 30 frames per second,” claims Insomniac’s (Resistance, Ratchet) Chief Creative Officer Brian Hastings, “What’s most exciting is I think we’ll see just as big a leap from our second generation engine to our third as we did from first to second.”

User-created content will be a feature of 2008, claims Epic boss Mark Rein (Unreal Tournament 3). “We’re really excited about bringing robust user-created content to PS3. PC gamers can use the included Unreal Engine 3 tool set to create mods which can be played on PS3.”


The modding capabilities of UT3 - with Sony’s Little Big Planet to follow, allowing users to trade levels, costumes and stickers online - are, as Rein reminds us, “a first for any game console… and way more important than polygons.”

Dave Connell, Lead Console Programmer over at Traveller’s Tales (of LEGO Star Wars fame) is equally pleased, describing PS3 as “a very powerful piece of kit”.

“Once you put the effort in and start to understand the hardware, you can see PS3’s huge technical potential,” Connell told us, observing that “the SPUs [Synergistic Processor Units] are key to unlocking PS3’s flexibility. The SPUs challenge us to come up with completely new tech ideas and to develop new features around them. We are going to see the quality of PS3 titles improve for many years to come as people get to grips with them. It might turn out that things we’ve not even thought of end up best demonstrating the power of PS3.”

Fallout 3’s Executive Producer Todd Howard - from Oblivion developer Bethesda - understands that PS3 “has more than enough power. No single game is using it all yet - not even close”. Back at E3 in July ‘07, Mercenaries 2 Lead Designer Scott Warner claimed their game was only using 30% of PS3’s power - while EA’s Chief Visual Officer Glenn Entis claimed their launch games like Fight Night 3 only tapped 20%. The figures sound hokum, but it wasn’t until five years into PS2’s life cycle that games tapped even 90% of its power - a statistic measured by Sony’s Performance Analyser tools, yet to be released on PS3.

Lighting effects will improve, claim middleware experts Geomerics. “Games will look more natural, with awesome reflection effects. None of our lighting is pre-calculated, as ‘pre-baking’ lightmaps is still industry practice. PS3’s power means we can use effects that were previously reserved for Hollywood, or high-end CGI applications and giant render farms.” The search for the new ‘lens flare’ starts here…




Here are some more choice observations by leading developers:

Brian Hastings, Insomniac
“I think we’ll see just as big a leap from our second generation engine to our third as we did from the first to second… Moving more and more code to the SPUs is an ongoing process and I think we’ll continue to see major benefits from this for several more years.”

Mark Rein, Epic
“The possibilities it opens up shouldn’t be underestimated. This isn’t just the idea of being able to rearrange the deck chairs, but being able to design your own boat - and create your own chairs from scratch too.”

Todd Howard, Bethesda
“One of the big strides that’s been made over the last year is not just developers like us learning how to use that power, but that Sony’s dramatically improved the tools we use to see where the game is slowing down.”

Dave Connell, Travellers’ Tales
“As we work on our games for next year, including LEGO Indiana Jones and LEGO Batman, we’re certain there’s a lot more to get out of the system than people have seen so far.”

Bruce Heather, EA UK
“Our seamless streaming of a fully open world utilises parallel SPU processing, and I’m really excited about how we can bring a complete world to life on PS3 using our advanced new physics system and enhanced lighting model.”



http://www.gamesradar.com/us/ps3/ga...58&sectionId=1003&pageId=20071220154913507078

 

[voodoo]

great system. luv it.

 

[Gemma]

Good Read.

I don't know anyone who has ever questioned the PS3's graphics abilities.

It's always about game selection and why is PS3 losing exclusives to the 360.

 

[tapdatass]

no offense, but show me...... i kinda blame game developers for not pushin these consoles to their limits...... shenmue pushed the dreamcast and xbox to its limits, you get too many chinese people in the screen and that shyt would turn into a laptop runnin windows vista sloooowww down

but i always knew it had potential...... was just dissapointed that sony was sittin back and letting wii and xbox kick its ass

 

[PEACE1]

What fuckng potential? I swear, I have no clue how they can get away with making false statements like this.

First a video card is damn near the start all and end all of a video game system (PC, 360, PS3, Wii,....). PC's get all of the video card choices FIRST. The ps3 has a 7900gt video card. Which is an older video card for PC's. My main computer has a 8800gts. Which is twice as powerful as the ps3's 7900gt. In the computing world a 7900gt is old news now. Hell my card is becoming old news. So please tell me Sony how are you going to get water from sand. Tell me. The only way possible is through art direction, memory programming techniques,etc. Otherwise stop lying!!!! There is no mysterious power!!! They fucked up the ps3's architecture from the jump, by implementing such a tiny memory bandwidth between components on motherboard! Xbox 360's don't have this problem. Even though 360's video card (Ati x1800) is slower than ps3's 7900 video card, it has a superior memory bandwidth on motherboard!

I swear man, marketing.

 

[LennyNero1972]

What fuckng potential? I swear, I have no clue how they can get away with making false statements like this.

First a video card is damn near the start all and end all of a video game system (PC, 360, PS3, Wii,....). PC's get all of the video card choices FIRST. The ps3 has a 7900gt video card. Which is an older video card for PC's. My main computer has a 8800gts. Which is twice as powerful as the ps3's 7900gt. In the computing world a 7900gt is old news now. Hell my card is becoming old news. So please tell me Sony how are you going to get water from sand. Tell me. The only way possible is through art direction, memory programming techniques,etc. Otherwise stop lying!!!! There is no mysterious power!!! They fucked up the ps3's architecture from the jump, by implementing such a tiny memory bandwidth between components on motherboard! Xbox 360's don't have this problem. Even though 360's video card (Ati x1800) is slower than ps3's 7900 video card, it has a superior memory bandwidth on motherboard!

I swear man, marketing.

Good observation. You're not going to tell me the PS3 can out do a high end PC(soon to be mid-range) with 4GB of system RAM, a 2 or 4 core chip with a massive bus, dual 1GB video cards, and a 320GB to 1TB HDD.

 

[MrMotivator]

if the abysmal game sales keep going nobody is going to bother to get to the future

PS3 owners are kicking themselves in the balls

 

[PEACE1]

Good observation. You're not going to tell me the PS3 can out do a high end PC(soon to be mid-range) with 4GB of system RAM, a 2 or 4 core chip with a massive bus, dual 1GB video cards, and a 320GB to 1TB HDD.

Exactly. If they want to demo some shit. Let see if it can run Crysis 60fps turned all the way up.

It can't! There isn't a computer that can!!! The next big video card won't come out til next month (Nvidia 9800 gtx), and I doubt if it will also.

BULLSHIT!!!

My PC setup right now can run circles around anything 360 or ps3 comes out with. Anything!

 

[tapdatass]

well console games are pretty much gold..... harder to copy cuz u have to modd ur system, and what not..... pc games come most of the time after the console version, plus i assume they lose money on pc releases cuz they are easily bootlegged....but im sidetrackin......

i totally agree....... a console is pretty much accessibility and ease, just pop the game in and play, but they make these bullshyt games and wonder why the sales flop..... how they spend all this time making a game and no one has the nerve to say...... this shyt sucks no ones gonna buy this....

 

[Jagi]

but they make these bullshyt games and wonder why the sales flop..... how they spend all this time making a game and no one has the nerve to say...... this shyt sucks no ones gonna buy this....

forget the console wars

this hits the nail on the head



isntead of dissing consoles we should be boycotting game developers who make crap.

example: how many games came out between september and december?

how many were actually good and worth the dollar spent on them?


they are making these games too fast (i know it takes 2 years to make one). how did kane and lynch even get a green light?

as short as uncharted and heavenly sword was maybe someone could have said "hey, assasins creed is a bit repetative, maybe if we condensed some of the bullshit it could be a better game" (its still a good game but the game length was stretched out for no reason, i was falling asleep after a while on it.

 

[Makkonnen]

cool maybe ill cop one in 08 or 09

 

[Jagi]

Exactly. If they want to demo some shit. Let see if it can run Crysis 60fps turned all the way up.

It can't! There isn't a computer that can!!! The next big video card won't come out til next month (Nvidia 9800 gtx), and I doubt if it will also.

BULLSHIT!!!

My PC setup right now can run circles around anything 360 or ps3 comes out with. Anything!

It does depend on how you look at it. the fact that people are trying to break crysis by getting bigger and better video cards is one of those pc gamer hobbiest things. whiel graphics look great on ps3 and 360 now, most console owners dont really care how far ahead of consoles pc's go as long as the games on the console look and play well..

UT3 is a good example as the game pace was slowed down due to the fact that pc gamers are more intense with their keyboards than console gamers are with a controller....

comparing the 360 to the ps3 is one thing.. but comparing a pc to a console, its just not fair, at least not until consoles come out with option to upgrade like a pc. if you couldnt upgrade your pc you'd be kicking it cursing after 3 years.

Rumor: Crysis coming to Xbox 360 in November​

An Austrian retail website created a listing for Crysis stating it's coming to Xbox 360 this November. Given the lackluster state of Crysis' sales on the PC it wouldn't be a shock if the game went multi-platform, but this is the first time a snippet of evidence – even an admittedly unreliable retail listing – has entered the channel.

There's currently no PS3 listing on the Austrian website (and we'll spare you the effortless Wii joke) but it'll definitely make for some interesting comparison videos if we get to see the 360 version of Crysis running side-by-side with the demanding PC release.


http://gamesonly.at/XQ/ASP.index/QX/index.html?suchstring=crysis&goto_site=listen_ansicht

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/01/03/rumor-crysis-coming-to-xbox-360-in-november/


________________________________________________________

 

[MegaDell]

Heres the bottom line. PC is good for three genre's really. FPS, RTS, and MMO's.

That's it. Everything else is done better on a console. A kb/mouse combo may be excellent for fps, but shit, try playing DMC with a kb/mouse. So many games that can't be played on PC, simply due to it's very limited controls.

And yes, you can use the little third party controllers but no developer is gonna make a game and have controls set up for all 40009909 of those little cheap ass controllers.

Consoles are also way better when it comes to multi player. I'd rather pick up my 360 and go to someones house, then have to fucking clear out a room and set up tables and a whole buncha other shit so I can have a lan party.

 

[blackmale]

Exactly. If they want to demo some shit. Let see if it can run Crysis 60fps turned all the way up.

It can't! There isn't a computer that can!!! The next big video card won't come out til next month (Nvidia 9800 gtx), and I doubt if it will also.

BULLSHIT!!!

My PC setup right now can run circles around anything 360 or ps3 comes out with. Anything!

How much did your PC cost compared to a PS3 or 360?

 

[Drayonis]

great system. luv it.

I have all 3 systems and the PS3 is getting more use from me than my xbox360.

The interface is way more mature to me than xbox 360. The picture is way better and the fact that i can actually surf online is the shit.

The only thing missing is the rumble feature. Doesn't that come out this year?

How does microsoft make a machine that you can't transfer movies to and doesnt have a web browser?

 

[Jagi]

I have all 3 systems and the PS3 is getting more use from me than my xbox360.

The interface is way more mature to me than xbox 360. The picture is way better and the fact that i can actually surf online is the shit.

The only thing missing is the rumble feature. Doesn't that come out this year?

How does microsoft make a machine that you can't transfer movies to and doesnt have a web browser?

i jumped the gun and picked up the japanese one from a local korean game store in the bronx.

yeah it should be released in the spring. i think there will be special ps3 console with mgs4 similar to the green halo 3 xbox. it should be ready before that model so they can package it in.

 

[MegaDell]

I have all 3 systems and the PS3 is getting more use from me than my xbox360.

The interface is way more mature to me than xbox 360. The picture is way better and the fact that i can actually surf online is the shit.

The only thing missing is the rumble feature. Doesn't that come out this year?

How does microsoft make a machine that you can't transfer movies to and doesnt have a web browser?

Because it has better games, and a far better Online set up? Yea, it's NICE that the ps3 can surf the web, but no one buys a ps3 so they can surf the web, as they would most definitely have a PC for that.

 

[ThaBurgerPimp]

forget the console wars

this hits the nail on the head



isntead of dissing consoles we should be boycotting game developers who make crap.

example: how many games came out between september and december?

how many were actually good and worth the dollar spent on them?


they are making these games too fast (i know it takes 2 years to make one). how did kane and lynch even get a green light?

as short as uncharted and heavenly sword was maybe someone could have said "hey, assasins creed is a bit repetative, maybe if we condensed some of the bullshit it could be a better game" (its still a good game but the game length was stretched out for no reason, i was falling asleep after a while on it.

these games here..its as if Uwe Boll got into the video game development business

 

[Chitown]

Due to the wide range of PC configurations most of the power in high spec PC's get wasted and games aren't optimized to run anywhere near as well as they could be. Consoles are far more efficient with the power that they contain then PC's because its a closed system and games can be tweaked/optimized a lot better. As they are built now both the PS3 and the 360 could get pretty close to Crysis level graphics (PS3 more so then 360) but the small amount of ram (compared to what a PC can hold) severely bottlenecks both systems.


You're going to see better graphics from both systems in the future as game engines are usually built/licensed in the first couple of years the systems life and then refined over time. Developers tools mature and they get better with the machine and start to push the limits of the system.


My prediction is this.

The PS3 will have a slight graphical edge because it has a more powerful CPU and that will allow devs to squeeze out a little more performance from the GPU in the system.

The 360 will stay fairly close to the graphical performance of the PS3 because it has a more powerful GPU and it's architecture is better suited for game development coupled with the fact that it has a more flexible ram configuration then the PS3.

 

[LennyNero1972]

Even though I disagree with the developers statements, I'm still copping one when MGS4 drops. That game is going to be huge. Usually they have 2 chapters per game, this one's going to have 5. The Milddle Eastern battlefield shown in the trailers was just the 1st act. You'll be traveling to, Eastern Europe, South America, The Arctic Ring and an unknown location. Snake is going worldwide yo.

 

[Chitown]

I can not for the life of me get into stealth action games like Splinter Cell or MGS now. Though I had the first Metal Gear Solid for the PS1 and loved it (one of my fav of all time) but 2 left a bad taste in my mouth and by the time 3 came out I had sold my PS2. I'll see whats up when part 4 comes out and revisit the series. Shit better be like crack or I'm chuckin the Blu Ray out the fucking window.

 

[LennyNero1972]

I can not for the life of me get into stealth action games like Splinter Cell or MGS now. Though I had the first Metal Gear Solid for the PS1 and loved it (one of my fav of all time) but 2 left a bad taste in my mouth and by the time 3 came out I had sold my PS2. I'll see whats up when part 4 comes out and revisit the series. Shit better be like crack or I'm chuckin the Blu Ray out the fucking window.

Man you missed out on 3, that was, to me, the best of the series. I thought MGS2 was great, but a lot of people hated the conspiracy plot( a lot of that shit is more true than people think) and having to switch over to play as the very effeminate "Raiden".

 

[PEACE1]

It does depend on how you look at it. the fact that people are trying to break crysis by getting bigger and better video cards is one of those pc gamer hobbiest things. whiel graphics look great on ps3 and 360 now, most console owners dont really care how far ahead of consoles pc's go as long as the games on the console look and play well..

UT3 is a good example as the game pace was slowed down due to the fact that pc gamers are more intense with their keyboards than console gamers are with a controller....

comparing the 360 to the ps3 is one thing.. but comparing a pc to a console, its just not fair, at least not until consoles come out with option to upgrade like a pc. if you couldnt upgrade your pc you'd be kicking it cursing after 3 years.

Rumor: Crysis coming to Xbox 360 in November​

An Austrian retail website created a listing for Crysis stating it's coming to Xbox 360 this November. Given the lackluster state of Crysis' sales on the PC it wouldn't be a shock if the game went multi-platform, but this is the first time a snippet of evidence – even an admittedly unreliable retail listing – has entered the channel.

There's currently no PS3 listing on the Austrian website (and we'll spare you the effortless Wii joke) but it'll definitely make for some interesting comparison videos if we get to see the 360 version of Crysis running side-by-side with the demanding PC release.


http://gamesonly.at/XQ/ASP.index/QX/index.html?suchstring=crysis&goto_site=listen_ansicht

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/01/03/rumor-crysis-coming-to-xbox-360-in-november/


________________________________________________________

That's a false rumor. If crysis ever made it's way to console, it would have to be severely butchered, ie Half Life 2 Xbox. There is no way technologically possible for Crysis to be written for consoles, due to lack of, video memory, shaders, system memory, memory bus, shader clocks......

Due to the wide range of PC configurations most of the power in high spec PC's get wasted and games aren't optimized to run anywhere near as well as they could be. Consoles are far more efficient with the power that they contain then PC's because its a closed system and games can be tweaked/optimized a lot better. As they are built now both the PS3 and the 360 could get pretty close to Crysis level graphics (PS3 more so then 360) but the small amount of ram (compared to what a PC can hold) severely bottlenecks both systems.


You're going to see better graphics from both systems in the future as game engines are usually built/licensed in the first couple of years the systems life and then refined over time. Developers tools mature and they get better with the machine and start to push the limits of the system.


My prediction is this.

The PS3 will have a slight graphical edge because it has a more powerful CPU and that will allow devs to squeeze out a little more performance from the GPU in the system.

The 360 will stay fairly close to the graphical performance of the PS3 because it has a more powerful GPU and it's architecture is better suited for game development coupled with the fact that it has a more flexible ram configuration then the PS3.

True. Games often times are specifically written for consoles, which helps with efficiency. However Nvidia's 8800 GTX released 11/2006, set the bar far higher for PC gaming. In fact ATI which is Nvidia's only rival has been pushed near the point of bankruptcy. The chips ps3 and 360 have, even in their most efficient form can't compete with the 8800. Most 360 and ps3 game lack the basic features that 8800 offer, Anti Aliasing, Anistrophic filtering, Mipmaps, etc.

Heres the bottom line. PC is good for three genre's really. FPS, RTS, and MMO's.

That's it. Everything else is done better on a console. A kb/mouse combo may be excellent for fps, but shit, try playing DMC with a kb/mouse. So many games that can't be played on PC, simply due to it's very limited controls.

And yes, you can use the little third party controllers but no developer is gonna make a game and have controls set up for all 40009909 of those little cheap ass controllers.

Consoles are also way better when it comes to multi player. I'd rather pick up my 360 and go to someones house, then have to fucking clear out a room and set up tables and a whole buncha other shit so I can have a lan party.

First of all PC's invented multi player. The depth of muti player on PC's make console look like playschool. Trust me I believed the same thing until I got into the PC world. It was an eye opener.


I don't know if you know this, but you can use your 360 controller with almost every game "out the box!" If not, there is no problem mapping controls, or using an emulator.

I have DMC and it work flawlessly with my 360 controller. What are you talking about?

People who complain about the cost, don't realize your not paying for the same thing as console, but so much more. Especially graphics and customization. If you're a true tech head then having a gaming PC is a must. You can build a PC now that can walk over consoles for as little as $600-$800 bucks.

 

[redemption]

What fuckng potential? I swear, I have no clue how they can get away with making false statements like this.

First a video card is damn near the start all and end all of a video game system (PC, 360, PS3, Wii,....). PC's get all of the video card choices FIRST. The ps3 has a 7900gt video card. Which is an older video card for PC's. My main computer has a 8800gts. Which is twice as powerful as the ps3's 7900gt. In the computing world a 7900gt is old news now. Hell my card is becoming old news. So please tell me Sony how are you going to get water from sand. Tell me. The only way possible is through art direction, memory programming techniques,etc. Otherwise stop lying!!!! There is no mysterious power!!! They fucked up the ps3's architecture from the jump, by implementing such a tiny memory bandwidth between components on motherboard! Xbox 360's don't have this problem. Even though 360's video card (Ati x1800) is slower than ps3's 7900 video card, it has a superior memory bandwidth on motherboard!

I swear man, marketing.

Youre misinterpreting how the PS3's CPU works man. A lot of the memory and GPU limitations that youre talking about can be offset to the multiple cores on the cell (8 total, 6 in use at any given time i believe: along with the GPU, memory, etc. etc.), and when the memory limit becomes a factor, thats when the built in hard drive comes into play. Theres so much depth to the architecture that you guys dont even realize man. Understand its not a PC and was not designed to be used like a PC. Thats why a lot of developers who try using those same PC dev practice on the PS3 hit a brick wall and become frustrated. They dont understand the architecture.

Trust me, Microsoft will come out with a completely new system and several variations before Sony starts on the PS4 (and I can bet the PS4 will have a cell cpu as well)

 

[Chitown]

True. Games often times are specifically written for consoles, which helps with efficiency. However Nvidia's 8800 GTX released 11/2006, set the bar far higher for PC gaming.

But the bar for PC gaming has been high (compared to consoles) ever since the first 3d accelerator was released.

In fact ATI which is Nvidia's only rival has been pushed near the point of bankruptcy.

ATI is near bankruptcy because they bought AMD they we're kicking Nvidias ass back in th 5 series era and giving them pretty good competition in the 6 and 7 series era. The problem now is they're focusing on unified shader technology (which the xbox 360's GPU has.. The 8800 doesn't even have that) and also the newly purchased CPU division of the company. Also trying to move towards fusing the CPU and GPU into one chip.

The chips ps3 and 360 have, even in their most efficient form can't compete with the 8800.

Of course the chips can't compete (in raw power) with the 8800 it's newer tech and it's also more powerful. If the PS3 and the 360 had more ram it wouldn't be much an issue though. The big advantage the PC hardware has is that raw power but like I said in my previous post it's mostly wasted power. Smart manufactures eventually move towards efficiency > raw power. The consoles wouldn't have a problem running Crysis if they had more ram.

Most 360 and ps3 game lack the basic features that 8800 offer, Anti Aliasing, Anistrophic filtering, Mipmaps, etc.

This has more to do with the ram limitation then the power of the hardware. AA and AS need video ram to be used the PS3 has 256mb of very fast video ram (256 system ram) and the 360 has 512mb of shared ram. If either of these systems had lets say 2 gigs of ram they would be able to run games with full AA, AS, better textures and at better frame rates. Hell the xbox introduced bump mapping into the console realm what makes you think these new systems can't Mipmap or do AA and AS? And I would go so far to that most games on the two systems actually have some form of post processing effects applied.

 

[Chitown]

Youre misinterpreting how the PS3's CPU works man. A lot of the memory and GPU limitations that youre talking about can be offset to the multiple cores on the cell (8 total, 6 in use at any given time i believe: along with the GPU, memory, etc. etc.), and when the memory limit becomes a factor, thats when the built in hard drive comes into play. Theres so much depth to the architecture that you guys dont even realize man. Understand its not a PC and was not designed to be used like a PC. Thats why a lot of developers who try using those same PC dev practice on the PS3 hit a brick wall and become frustrated. They dont understand the architecture.

Trust me, Microsoft will come out with a completely new system and several variations before Sony starts on the PS4 (and I can bet the PS4 will have a cell cpu as well)

The PS3 is very memory limited its got good video memory bandwidth but not enough actually memory to play with since its total amount is split in half and sectioned off for system memory. This is why you're not going to see the PS3 completely destroy the xbox 360 as far as graphics capabilities go. It will have better graphics but not by much. It won't be a PS2 vs Xbox situation. Secondly the PS3 CPU has only 1 core and 7 (1 disabled) little helpers... they aren't actual cores. In comparison the 360 has 3 actual cores (but no little helpers). And the built in hard drive of the PS3 can't help its video memory limitations in anyway thats not how it works. It can help as far as load times and caching but thats it. But thats 100% necessary because of the slow Blu Ray drive in the system. The architecture of the PS3 was a big mistake on Sony's part they tried to use the system as a Trojan Horse to usher in Blu Ray and Cell technology Not a good move as developing for it has been a nightmare for most and difficult to get a grasp of.

 

[actinanass]

Exactly. If they want to demo some shit. Let see if it can run Crysis 60fps turned all the way up.

It can't! There isn't a computer that can!!! The next big video card won't come out til next month (Nvidia 9800 gtx), and I doubt if it will also.

BULLSHIT!!!

My PC setup right now can run circles around anything 360 or ps3 comes out with. Anything!

Thats good dude. My main reason for NOT getting a 360 is because I had good computer. One thing you have to realize is the fact that not everyone can afford to spend 1500 dollars for an high end pc. With you spending 500 dollars every time nvidia shits out a "high end card", you could be using that money on something else. In all honesty, the ps3 is a better buy than most of the other systems *pc as well*.

 

[Chitown]

Thats good dude. My main reason for NOT getting a 360 is because I had good computer. One thing you have to realize is the fact that not everyone can afford to spend 1500 dollars for an high end pc. With you spending 500 dollars every time nvidia shits out a "high end card", you could be using that money on something else. In all honesty, the ps3 is a better buy than most of the other systems *pc as well*.

I'm still using a system I put together 3 years ago so you don't have to upgrade every time a new card drops. It goes back to what I was saying about wasted power. A lot of times your CPU is limiting your video card. A lot of times your Video card is limiting your CPU. You can actually get by just by leap froging your parts every 2-3 years. I totally skipped the dual core cpu era and kept my A64 system with my 6800 ultra in it and games just now are pushing this system to its knees. That is unless you're trying to play at super high resolutions I mostly play at 1280 x 1024. The next one I build (within the next couple of months) Will be quad core and I'll most likely roll with the 9800 that Nvidia drops.

 

[PEACE1]

Youre misinterpreting how the PS3's CPU works man. A lot of the memory and GPU limitations that youre talking about can be offset to the multiple cores on the cell (8 total, 6 in use at any given time i believe: along with the GPU, memory, etc. etc.), and when the memory limit becomes a factor, thats when the built in hard drive comes into play. Theres so much depth to the architecture that you guys dont even realize man. Understand its not a PC and was not designed to be used like a PC. Thats why a lot of developers who try using those same PC dev practice on the PS3 hit a brick wall and become frustrated. They dont understand the architecture.

Trust me, Microsoft will come out with a completely new system and several variations before Sony starts on the PS4 (and I can bet the PS4 will have a cell cpu as well)

There is no such thing as a cell CPU. " The Cell" is the name of the ps3's "entire" system Architecture.

I hate to tell you this, but most of that advanced mystery of the universe computing power, is pure marketing hype. The CPU ps3 uses is not as advanced as you may think. It's simply a budget multi core CPU. It can't hold a candle to Intel's Core Duo series. Not even the budget line.

The CPU is not the biggest determining factor in any systems graphical power. The main job the CPU is responsible for are mostly physics, AI, etc. A system's GPU (video card), handles the brunt of the tasks concerning graphical calculations.

I don't see how I misinterpret anything. If a system's bottlenecked, it's bottlenecked. Their isn't any getting around it. A good gaming engine with some good art direction by the developer, are the only things that can help visually. However there is no tapping into a mystery "Cell." Ask any programmer, they'll tell you that's nonsense. A software gaming engine, just makes sure the system's hardware power is used efficiently.

A hard drive is any system's biggest bottleneck. It's absolutely the slowest component holding back computing presently. Hence the reason why we're moving towards solid state drives (much faster and efficient).A hard drive is far from playing any role in a system's graphical performance.

It not just a matter of Ps3's architecture being complex, but it's actually flawed. However for Sony it's too late now, to change that.

The only thing Sony can rely on is marketing and creativity.

 

[PEACE1]

Thats good dude. My main reason for NOT getting a 360 is because I had good computer. One thing you have to realize is the fact that not everyone can afford to spend 1500 dollars for an high end pc. With you spending 500 dollars every time nvidia shits out a "high end card", you could be using that money on something else. In all honesty, the ps3 is a better buy than most of the other systems *pc as well*.

True, but this isn't an argument about price. Sony is lying to the non tech savvy consumers, making them believe there is some mystery Shaolin Temple, with the Holy Grail under ps3's hood. In the eye of those who know, that is pure nonsense. Sony has already proven time and time again they are some lyin muthafuckas!

 

[PEACE1]

But the bar for PC gaming has been high (compared to consoles) ever since the first 3d accelerator was released.



ATI is near bankruptcy because they bought AMD they we're kicking Nvidias ass back in th 5 series era and giving them pretty good competition in the 6 and 7 series era. The problem now is they're focusing on unified shader technology (which the xbox 360's GPU has.. The 8800 doesn't even have that) and also the newly purchased CPU division of the company. Also trying to move towards fusing the CPU and GPU into one chip.



Of course the chips can't compete (in raw power) with the 8800 it's newer tech and it's also more powerful. If the PS3 and the 360 had more ram it wouldn't be much an issue though. The big advantage the PC hardware has is that raw power but like I said in my previous post it's mostly wasted power. Smart manufactures eventually move towards efficiency > raw power. The consoles wouldn't have a problem running Crysis if they had more ram.




This has more to do with the ram limitation then the power of the hardware. AA and AS need video ram to be used the PS3 has 256mb of very fast video ram (256 system ram) and the 360 has 512mb of shared ram. If either of these systems had lets say 2 gigs of ram they would be able to run games with full AA, AS, better textures and at better frame rates. Hell the xbox introduced bump mapping into the console realm what makes you think these new systems can't Mipmap or do AA and AS? And I would go so far to that most games on the two systems actually have some form of post processing effects applied.

You need to do the research first. Nvidia's 8800 is the first video card containing unified shader and floating point processing. The Card the 360 uses, is just a modified ATi x1800. It only emulates unified shading. NOT THE SAME THING! The 8800 (g80 core) is one of the most ground breaking cards of all time. The leap in technology even surpasses the time when ATi brought out the 9700 pro's, that were ground breaking for there time. The efficiency and effortlessness of the 8 series cards are incomparable to ANYTHING on the market. ATi's top of the line cards are fumbling failures in comparison with all the current draw, overheating, etc.

In case you haven't heard ATi is mess right now. The fusion of CPU's and GPU's is just speculation to keep the investor happy.

The issue with AA and AF, only proves my point. Consoles are limited in graphical power. Finding the mystery egg is nonsense. The name of the game is which developer, can develop a more efficient engine. Artistic style also plays a mjor role.


I have most of the games that came out on 360 for my PC. When I compare them with the console version, it's damn near embarrassing.

 

[Larrikin]

Good graphics != fun.

 

[l_sizzle210]

promises promises anything a developer says ( not matter what system) i take with a grain of salt. I see this as a last ditch effort to boost software sales.

 

[PEACE1]

The 360 does not have unified shaders. Emulating does not count. The shaders are organized in three SMID engines making up a total of only 48 shaders anyway. Nvidias 8800 GTX has 128!!! No comparison! If they dropped the 8800 into the 360, and expanded a couple other areas to give it some breathing room. It would make ps3 look like Sega Saturn!

 

[elchoccolatte]

Gosta to stop Bullshiting and gon head and cop that BITCH...