What have you done for me lately...Republicans v Democrats

geechiedan

Rising Star
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In 1854, the Republican Party was founded mainly to end slavery, and for two decades it honorably promoted African-American equality. Its first presidential nominee, pioneer James C. Frémont, took a staunch anti-slavery stand in 1856 and ran well, paving the way for Abraham Lincoln's election four years later. Lincoln was no radical. He believed white men superior to blacks and opposed the outright abolition of slavery. But he wanted to stop slavery's westward expansion in the hope that it would die out—a position that won him endorsements from leading African-Americans such as Frederick Douglass and 40 percent of the overall vote, enough for victory in a four-way race.

After the Civil War, the "Radical Republicans," who oversaw the Reconstruction of the South, brought blacks into electoral politics. Blacks naturally joined the GOP rather than the white supremacist Southern Democrats. In these golden years, black Republicans got the vote and even won elective office (Mississippi elected the nation's first African-American senator in 1870). Led by the GOP, the nation ratified the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments, which ended slavery and gave black men full citizenship and the franchise.


The GOP's abandonment of African-Americans commenced with the presidential election of 1876. The party had already been subordinating its agenda of black equality to that of cultivating Northern industrialists when Ohio Republican Rutherford B. Hayes, to resolve a contested election, agreed to the notorious Compromise of 1876. In exchange for their support, Hayes promised Southern Democrats to withdraw federal troops from the South and to let them treat blacks as they pleased. Almost immediately, white supremacist, or "redeemer" Democrats regained power, heralding the reign of Jim Crow. Ironically, the compromise also crippled black Republicanism, as state Republican parties, to compete for white votes, engaged in racial me-tooism, purging blacks from the party or shunting them into "Black and Tan" delegations whose legitimacy was.

By the Progressive Era, both the Republicans and the Democrats were generally uninterested in helping African-Americans. One issue that couldn't be ignored—though the parties tried—was the horror of lynching, which had become rampant in the post-Reconstruction South. Anti-lynching laws marked the last major civil rights issue on which Republicans were out in front.


In 1920 Leonidas Dyer, a Missouri Republican from a largely black St. Louis district, introduced an anti-lynching bill, which the new Republican president, Warren Harding, endorsed. The House passed it in January 1922 (231-199, with only 17 Republicans opposing and eight Northern or border-state Democrats in support). Yet even though they controlled the Senate too, the GOP couldn't, or wouldn't, pull out the stops to pass the law. While Majority Leader Henry Cabot Lodge of Massachusetts supported the bill, the powerful Idaho Republican William Borah opposed it as meddling in states' rights and helped Southern Democrats kill it. The Borah-Lodge rift foretold a schism in the GOP between Northeastern liberals and a Midwestern and Western Old Guard that would later scramble the party's racial politics.

The election of Roosevelt in 1932 marked the beginning of a change. The realignment crystallized under President Franklin Roosevelt. In 1932, FDR won just 23 percent of the black vote. Yet he swiftly bolstered his black support.Gestures such as consulting a "black cabinet" of unofficial African-American advisers surely helped, but more important were his economic relief programs. The Depression hit black Americans disproportionately hard, and FDR's relief programs, such as the Civilian Conservation Corps and the Public Works Administration, gave them much-needed aid and jobs. A popular song among Depression-era blacks made it plain:

Roosevelt! You're my man!
When the time come I ain't got a cent
You buy my groceries
And pay my rent.
Mr. Roosevelt, you're my man!


In Congress, meanwhile, Northern and Western Democrats took the lead on progressive racial legislation; it was two Democratic senators who in 1934 introduced the next major anti-lynching bill. Between 1932 and 1936, writes historian Nancy J. Weiss in Farewell to the Party of Lincoln: Black Politics in the Age of FDR, "Roosevelt and the New Deal changed the voting habits of black Americans in ways that have lasted to our own time."


Roosevelt got 71 percent of the black vote for president in 1936 and did nearly that well in the next two elections, according to historical figures kept by the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies. But even then, the number of blacks identifying themselves as Republicans was about the same as the number who thought of themselves as Democrats.

It wasn't until Harry Truman garnered 77 percent of the black vote in 1948 that a majority of blacks reported that they thought of themselves as Democrats. Earlier that year Truman had issued an order desegregating the armed services and an executive order setting up regulations against racial bias in federal employment.

Even after that, Republican nominees continued to get a large slice of the black vote for several elections. Dwight D. Eisenhower got 39 percent in 1956, and Richard Nixon got 32 percent in his narrow loss to John F. Kennedy in 1960. Entering the 1960 election the Democrats, behind such leaders as Hubert Humphrey of Minnesota and Herbert Lehman of New York, had become the unquestioned party of civil rights. Richard Nixon, who always overestimated his own popularity with blacks, still hoped to fare well—Jackie Robinson, for one, endorsed him—and he probably had a stronger civil rights record than John F. Kennedy. But JFK courted the black vote, famously phoning Martin Luther King Jr.'s wife, Coretta, when the civil rights leader was jailed. Kennedy would have commanded the black vote anyway, but the closeness of the election led analysts to mythologize the phone call as critical.

The battle over Civil Rights marked the last hurrah for racial liberalism within the GOP. But then President Lyndon B. Johnson pushed through the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964 (outlawing segregation in public places) and his eventual Republican opponent, Sen. Barry Goldwater, opposed it. Johnson got 94 percent of the black vote that year, still a record for any presidential election until 2008.

The following year Johnson signed the 1965 Voting Rights Act. No Republican presidential candidate has gotten more than 15 percent of the black vote since.

____________________________________________

that was a mash up I put together of two articles: Blacks and the Democratic Party and The Party of Lincoln... on the history of the Black vote and loyalty to the Republicans and Democrats at various times in US history.

The bold parts are highlights where blacks concerns were addressed and the support they gave for it.

Since 1968 on up to today it seems that the democratic party has taken the black vote for granted and the republican party has disregarded it for the last 40 years.

But looking at history its clear to see that blacks (like everyone else) have a propensity to support candidates and a parties which they believe demonstrate a willingness to address core social, economic and political issues facing the African American community. Whether that response is substantive or symbolic. Unfortunately more often than not particularly of late the response has been more symbolic than anything.

But looking at the broad strokes of how the Black vote has been swayed over time its easy to see when and how each party won support.

Usually the person at the top of the ticket on the party is rewarded with support when a concession is made to the black community sometimes even if the ground work was started or created by others in the opposing party. For example LBJ signed the Civil Rights legislation and was rewarded with black support even tho alot of the frame work for it was republican crafted.

PRESIDENTS WHO GOT LARGE MAJORITY BLACK SUPPORT IN US HISTORY:
Abraham Lincoln (R)
Warren Harding (R)
Franklin Roosevelt (D)
Harry Truman (D)
John F. Kennedy (D)
Lyndon B. Johnson (D)


At regional and local levels Black have recognized and supported politicians who made direct efforts to respond to the needs of the community. George Romney, (Mitt's daddy) who was the Republican governor of Michigan during the 1960s, won 30% of the African American vote during his race in 1966. George Romney was a staunch supporter of civil rights and desegregation, and even marched in solidarity alongside black protesters in Detroit who were outraged about the violence in Selma, Alabama. That's not an endorse for his son but an illustration that Black support comes to those who show and prove regardless of party affiliation.

The truth is at various times in history members from both parties have advocated for minorities and particularly blacks. Sometimes it was for genuine humane reasons, they saw something that was fucked up and moved to do something about it. Other times (most times) it was political calculation. Lyndon Johnson was particularly cynical in his move toward Civil Rights legislation:

These Negroes, they're getting pretty uppity these days and that's a problem for us since they've got something now they never had before, the political pull to back up their uppityness. Now we've got to do something about this, we've got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference. For if we don't move at all, then their allies will line up against us and there'll be no way of stopping them, we'll lose the filibuster and there'll be no way of putting a brake on all sorts of wild legislation. It'll be Reconstruction all over again." --Sen. Lyndon B. Johnson (D., Texas), 1957

Since the 60s African Americans have voted consistently democratic even as most of the response from the Democratic Party is mostly lip service. Meanwhile the Republican Party has made the political calculation to disregard the Black vote almost entirely and in this election cycle completely.

DO YOU THINK ITS POSSIBLE THAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY CAN RECAPTURE THE BLACK VOTE AND HOW WOULD IT HAPPEN?
 
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their both white man's parties....and here I thought I would get a mature discussion in the political section:smh:
 
Actually looking at what I wrote, it makes it implicit that Democrats want the black vote because they can't win without it.

So why are black people so passive in their support and don't demand anything of substance and don't receive anything of substance.
 
Actually looking at what I wrote, it makes it implicit that Democrats want the black vote because they can't win without it.

So why are black people so passive in their support and don't demand anything of substance and don't receive anything of substance.

We definitely need to do a better job with this.
I would also think the GOP should understand that it's in their best interest to reach out to us and make it competitive. We will vote and support Republicans but they have to do some real outreach on their end. This has been proven on the local and state level all over the country.
 
anyone ELSE have an opinion????

Many people tend to believe that we've always voted democratic in upper double digits; and just as many probably never knew that we've also voted for republican candidates in presidential elections greater than single digits. Your summary offers some explanation for why the black vote is where it is today; some insight as to why its probably not soon to change; and posits race as a reason for both. :(
 
Actually looking at what I wrote, it makes it implicit that Democrats want the black vote because they can't win without it.

So why are black people so passive in their support and don't demand anything of substance and don't receive anything of substance.

I agree that we need to do a better job at holding whomever is beholden to us, more accountable to us. If you were charged with making the demand, what would you say? What would be your major priorities; and what (rather specifically) would you ask be done to achieve them. (not asking for a dissertation; and brevity is cool)

Make that pitch.
 
Actually looking at what I wrote, it makes it implicit that Democrats want the black vote because they can't win without it.

So why are black people so passive in their support and don't demand anything of substance and don't receive anything of substance.

The African American population is small relative to the total United States total population (U.S. Census Bureau, Current Population Survey, 2005). As a result, the impact of the African American vote is often overlooked or taken for granted by political analysts. The fact of the matter is, in close elections in key electoral states the African American vote can be, and often is, the deciding factor. The African American vote is important, at least for democrats, in national elections. Given the fact that African Americans have voted overwhelmingly Democrat in every large electoral state over the past 20 years makes them a significant voting bloc in close presidential elections. Even in a state like California, where African Americans account for less than 7 percent of the population, they are still a significant factor in the democratic nomination process and in the general election when the race is close.

Black people seem to do better when our backs are against the wall and the contrast is obvious to a blind man. In all of the advances tho it seems that we as a voting bloc never pressed or felt we could press our voting power. Also fractured solidarity and poor leadership from those who have influence in the community have worked to weaken our power bloc.
 
Many people tend to believe that we've always voted democratic in upper double digits; and just as many probably never knew that we've also voted for republican candidates in presidential elections greater than single digits. Your summary offers some explanation for why the black vote is where it is today; some insight as to why its probably not soon to change; and posits race as a reason for both. :(

no the reason for blacks loyally voting for both parties at various times has to do with jobs, opportunity and dignity than race.

Lincoln is credited with ending slavery - black support

Harding is credited with signing anti lynching laws - black support

FDR is credited with opening up aid and jobs during the depression - black support

Truman ended segregation in military and ended bias in federal jobs - black support

JFK gave the IMPRESSION he supported the Civil Rights Movements - black support

LBJ - signed Civil Rights Legislation - black support


If race is a factor in any of that it isn't on the side of black people who just wanted jobs, freedom and a chance.
 
no the reason for blacks loyally voting for both parties at various times has to do with jobs, opportunity and dignity than race.

Lincoln is credited with ending slavery - black support

Harding is credited with signing anti lynching laws - black support

FDR is credited with opening up aid and jobs during the depression - black support

Truman ended segregation in military and ended bias in federal jobs - black support

JFK gave the IMPRESSION he supported the Civil Rights Movements - black support

LBJ - signed Civil Rights Legislation - black support


If race is a factor in any of that it isn't on the side of black people who just wanted jobs, freedom and a chance.


If you think those presidents did those things out of the goodness of their hearts, you need to learn more about history. Black folk pushed them to those decisions.
 
If you think those presidents did those things out of the goodness of their hearts, you need to learn more about history. Black folk pushed them to those decisions.

you know dude youre responding to the thread and you haven't read one fucking thing I've written or read it with comprehension..at all..

READ THE WHOLE FUCKING THREAD CAREFULLY THEN COMMENT
 
Tell you the truth, its up for us, as a community, to make both parties work for us.

We do not demand shit. This is the major problem.
 
no the reason for blacks loyally voting for both parties at various times has to do with jobs, opportunity and dignity -- than race.

Why are there issues about jobs, freedom and opportunity? Is it because race doesn't matter; or is it because race does matter ???

Why are there issues about participation in the democratic process? Is it because "minority" voter suppression doesn't matter; or is it because "minority" voter suppression does matter ???

Have you seen "White Voter Suppression" in the news lately ??? And, if you have, was it not in some way discussed, viewed, posited, etc., Vis à Vis Black participation ???

Regardless of the various motivations that either side have come-up with over the years - - is affirmative action an issue because race doesn't matter; or, because race does matter ???

If "race" was somehow magically removed from the picture, would we be having THIS discussion about jobs, opportunity, dignity, etc. ???


`
 
Why are there issues about jobs, freedom and opportunity? Is it because race doesn't matter; or is it because race does matter ???

Why are there issues about participation in the democratic process? Is it because "minority" voter suppression doesn't matter; or is it because "minority" voter suppression does matter ???

Have you seen "White Voter Suppression" in the news lately ??? And, if you have, was it not in some way discussed, viewed, posited, etc., Vis à Vis Black participation ???

Regardless of the various motivations that either side have come-up with over the years - - is affirmative action an issue because race doesn't matter; or, because race does matter ???

If "race" was somehow magically removed from the picture, would we be having THIS discussion about jobs, opportunity, dignity, etc. ???


`
I'm speaking from the side and motivation of black people. Racism isn't a situation we created its what we deal with. Its not our problem....meaning we didn't come into this country saying I'm Black treat me different.

Any moves and actions blacks take isn't rooted in race its to navigate AROUND racism. The issue of race and racism is white on black historically. White people treat us differently based on race..blacks are just trying to survive.

All those points in history I highlighted..from the black man's POV it means JOBS and OPPORTUNITY and the ability to support them selves and their families PERIOD. The significance of race as a point of issue is all on the side of white people.
 
I'm speaking from the side and motivation of black people. Racism isn't a situation we created its what we deal with. Its not our problem....meaning we didn't come into this country saying I'm Black treat me different.

When/where did I give you that impression ???

Any moves and actions blacks take isn't rooted in race its to navigate AROUND racism. The issue of race and racism is white on black historically. White people treat us differently based on race..blacks are just trying to survive.

Bruh, I agree that in the main, our actions generally are an attempt to avoid "racist" stumbling blocks. But that doesn't remove "race" as a motivating factor for the actions that we take. Actually, I think we're saying much the same thing. In that regard, I think what we have here is the proverbial:



glass-half-full.jpg

without acknowledging our slightly different perspectives/lens.



All those points in history I highlighted..from the black man's POV it means JOBS and OPPORTUNITY and the ability to support them selves and their families PERIOD. The significance of race as a point of issue is all on the side of white people.

If you look at it as who placed the burden, perhaps, you're right (and I say perhaps simply because I'm not going back to review everything you've written above and sort out blame). I am hesitant to say that we are blameless, because I feel certain that we've made mistakes along the way that might have exascerbated our plight (no one is perfect). But regardless of who placed that burden where it is, I think it would be wrong to say that WE don't view the burden through a race-colored lens and I believe that WE react, largely, based on that baggage.

I don't believe that every burden is race-based. But I do believe that in many cases we react, nevertheless, as if it is -- simply because, in some cases we've just become accustomed to it being so and in other situations when the cause celebre is not open and apparent and time just doesn't avail sorting it out -- its what we do. But, I think white people do exactly the same thing.
 
If you look at it as who placed the burden, perhaps, you're right (and I say perhaps simply because I'm not going back to review everything you've written above and sort out blame). I am hesitant to say that we are blameless, because I feel certain that we've made mistakes along the way that might have exascerbated our plight (no one is perfect). But regardless of who placed that burden where it is, I think it would be wrong to say that WE don't view the burden through a race-colored lens and I believe that WE react, largely, based on that baggage.
theres no need to sort out blame...it was institutionalized racism in this country...there is only one side to blame. The side that had the power and motivation to do it. To say we've made mistakes that exacerbated our plight is like saying the guy who was home invaded, tied up and his wife raped and house ramshackled made mistakes during the crime that made it worse. The purpose for the crime was to do all that shit regardless of what the victim says or does. In the grip of institutional racism there is nothing blacks did to exacerbate their plight.

I don't believe that every burden is race-based. But I do believe that in many cases we react, nevertheless, as if it is -- simply because, in some cases we've just become accustomed to it being so and in other situations when the cause celebre is not open and apparent and time just doesn't avail sorting it out -- its what we do. But, I think white people do exactly the same thing.
youre right that every burden isn't race based...but at the end of the day we need jobs and education and opportunity...the same things the people with advantage have.

which is why the black vote tends to go to the party that has either done that or made a show of concern for doing that. And its telling that the last major piece of legislation that was signed with black people in mind hapened 40 years ago and not much else. Blacks as a group should be more fluid in our vote and all candidates from local, state to federal should get a one and done deal from us. You get one term to show us what you can do for us and if nothing happens then youre gone.
 
. . . which is why the black vote tends to go to the party that has either done that or made a show of concern for doing that. And its telling that the last major piece of legislation that was signed with black people in mind hapened 40 years ago and not much else. Blacks as a group should be more fluid in our vote and all candidates from local, state to federal should get a one and done deal from us. You get one term to show us what you can do for us and if nothing happens then youre gone.

I thought we may have been saying the same thing, but many times assumptions prove wrong. I don't have the time to sort through our comments above and I don't know if it really matters -- but following up your point above, let me ask you the same question that I asked Greed, above:

If you were charged with making the demand from whichever party that happens to be in charge, what would you say? What would be your major priorities; and what (rather specifically) would you ask be done to achieve them. (not asking for a dissertation; and brevity is cool)​

Make that pitch.
 
We definitely need to do a better job with this.
I would also think the GOP should understand that it's in their best interest to reach out to us and make it competitive. We will vote and support Republicans but they have to do some real outreach on their end. This has been proven on the local and state level all over the country.
Just like I ask the OP, why would the GOP do that? You say it's in their best interest, but I don't see them needing the black vote to win. Maybe I'm just not aware of these examples, all over the country, where blacks are willing to vote Republican after a little outreach.

Democratic policies are very popular with black people, no matter the results.
 
I agree that we need to do a better job at holding whomever is beholden to us, more accountable to us. If you were charged with making the demand, what would you say? What would be your major priorities; and what (rather specifically) would you ask be done to achieve them. (not asking for a dissertation; and brevity is cool)

Make that pitch.
The ONLY thing I think black people need is something that they will never ask for from a politician.

The minimum wage needs to be repealed.

Black people should not want a single barrier to work that is purely a government dictate. Black people are the only ethnic group, in the history of this country, trying to eliminate inter-generational poverty with a restriction on their own best judgment regarding what job is right for their pursuit of happiness.

The hopelessness in the black community is positively correlated to the lack of economic opportunity. No poor person naturally thinks being rich quick or being well-off is their birth right, but they do correctly perceive a likelihood of being poor for the rest of their life because they can't get a start.

But black people buy into this living wage is a right bullshit while ignoring 50%-70% of young black males have a wage of zero. How is $5/hour worse than $0/hour? Many of them would be fine with low wages if they considered it a stepping stone. But the political marketing labels it as a never-ending reality that only an arbitrary government dictate can get you out of.

The minimum wage is the greatest anti-black legislation ever produced.
 
I thought we may have been saying the same thing, but many times assumptions prove wrong. I don't have the time to sort through our comments above and I don't know if it really matters -- but following up your point above, let me ask you the same question that I asked Greed, above:

If you were charged with making the demand from whichever party that happens to be in charge, what would you say? What would be your major priorities; and what (rather specifically) would you ask be done to achieve them. (not asking for a dissertation; and brevity is cool)​

Make that pitch.

The concerns would be judicial/penal reform with an emphasis on rehab and reform rather than just punishment, federal, state and local contracts for urban business (and not just set asides), increased funding for education in urban areas.

The problem is demanding and bargaining for those things would require a level of unity and solidarity that the black community quite frankly rarely exhibits without firehoses pointed at us and police dogs snapping at our heels . And what I mean by that is supporting black business, networking and keeping money in the black community and picking and choosing battles that benefit us as group.

Unfortunately the historical dynamic has been blacks get concessions only when its politically expedient for whichever party to advocate for us.
 
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Just like I ask the OP, why would the GOP do that? You say it's in their best interest, but I don't see them needing the black vote to win. Maybe I'm just not aware of these examples, all over the country, where blacks are willing to vote Republican after a little outreach.

Democratic policies are very popular with black people, no matter the results.

The last great concession/outreach to blacks was civil rights legislation and that was signed by a democratic president (even if there was significant republican involvement) as I said earlier the top of the ticket gets credit when the smoke clears. After the 60s the republicans evolved their platform to a much more self reliance stance that comes off as antagonistic to blacks since literally every advancement we made relied on government action.

The ONLY thing I think black people need is something that they will never ask for from a politician.

The minimum wage needs to be repealed.

Black people should not want a single barrier to work that is purely a government dictate. Black people are the only ethnic group, in the history of this country, trying to eliminate inter-generational poverty with a restriction on their own best judgment regarding what job is right for their pursuit of happiness.

The hopelessness in the black community is positively correlated to the lack of economic opportunity. No poor person naturally thinks being rich quick or being well-off is their birth right, but they do correctly perceive a likelihood of being poor for the rest of their life because they can't get a start.

But black people buy into this living wage is a right bullshit while ignoring 50%-70% of young black males have a wage of zero. How is $5/hour worse than $0/hour? Many of them would be fine with low wages if they considered it a stepping stone. But the political marketing labels it as a never-ending reality that only an arbitrary government dictate can get you out of.

The minimum wage is the greatest anti-black legislation ever produced.

there are pros and cons to the minimum wage to be sure but who is going to work for 2 dollars an hour and no bathroom breaks?
 
Whether or not someone would work for $2/hour with no bathroom breaks has nothing to do with the decision being made for him and an act of voluntary employment being made illegal.

And you still didn't answer why the GOP would do the outreach. If we all concede that they can win elections without the black vote, then why would they bother. Your reasoning keeps revolving around what good it would do for black people.

GOP outreach would be a waste of time unless they only suggest Democratic positions to appeal to very satisfied Democratic black voters.
 
Thats it. The panacea.
That's it. I thought you didn't want a dissertation.

There are only two factors affecting the black community in a good or bad way. The two factors are whether or not a person is able to work where they see fit, and whether or not a person has a baby they can't afford. There is not a problem I see that I cannot tie back as an effect to one of those two causes. Now, I would only need one of those addressed by politicians because they made work illegal in the first place. Black people have their own responsibility to not having babies they can't afford.

You don't even need Democrats and Republicans to promise you other people's money if you can work as you see fit and don't have a baby you can't afford.
 
That's it. I thought you didn't want a dissertation.

There are only two factors affecting the black community in a good or bad way. The two factors are whether or not a person is able to work where they see fit, and whether or not a person has a baby they can't afford. There is not a problem I see that I cannot tie back as an effect to one of those two causes. Now, I would only need one of those addressed by politicians because they made work illegal in the first place. Black people have their own responsibility to not having babies they can't afford.

You don't even need Democrats and Republicans to promise you other people's money if you can work as you see fit and don't have a baby you can't afford.

Well, I hear/read people on/off the boards mentioning that we need to demand more; we need to hold elected officials accountable, etc. Honestly, I've never hear the word "demand" expressed in the singular, until now. The reason I ask the question is I am truly interested in understanding what WE perceive the demand(s) to be, giving thought to how the same might best be articulated. I see that (in my own little way) as looking for solutions, not just propagating more of whats wrong or not working.

So, I was surprised, indeed, when you stated the ONLY thing Black people need is repeal of minimum wage laws.
 
Well, I hear/read people on/off the boards mentioning that we need to demand more; we need to hold elected officials accountable, etc. Honestly, I've never hear the word "demand" expressed in the singular, until now. The reason I ask the question is I am truly interested in understanding what WE perceive the demand(s) to be, giving thought to how the same might best be articulated. I see that (in my own little way) as looking for solutions, not just propagating more of whats wrong or not working.

So, I was surprised, indeed, when you stated the ONLY thing Black people need is repeal of minimum wage laws.
Black people see their future prosperity tied to a political means. Politics is without substance, so when they talk about solving their problems through politics, it will inevitably lead to a solution without substance like just talk or ambiguous demands.

Black people are stuck thinking about problems like it's still the 60's. The political process was appropriate then because the problem was the government not enforcing equal rights laws for black people, i.e. it was implicitly legal to kill a black person because the government wouldn't prosecute a white person if they did murder or prosecution was unreliable. Or white people could burn down your business and face no repercussions. I hated that the Civil Rights movements ended as an "equal access to white people's shit" rather than a "get white people to leave us alone" movement.

Anyway, black people secured those basic rights in the 60's, now a different set of problems exist which require a different set of solutions. I believe the solution is mostly economic, but economics is the opposite of politics. If black people are in a political mentality, then they won't be able to conceive of true economic solution.
 
Whether or not someone would work for $2/hour with no bathroom breaks has nothing to do with the decision being made for him and an act of voluntary employment being made illegal.

And you still didn't answer why the GOP would do the outreach. If we all concede that they can win elections without the black vote, then why would they bother. Your reasoning keeps revolving around what good it would do for black people.

GOP outreach would be a waste of time unless they only suggest Democratic positions to appeal to very satisfied Democratic black voters.

thats why I'm looking very carefully at how they deal with latinos. Immigration is a huge issue that frankly both parties have fumbled with dealing with. And frankly Obama made a political calculation in issuing that not the dream act executive order earlier this year when he could have done it in his first year.

Again a democratic president doing something for a minority and getting support for it as latinos support him at 70% or over...if he hadn't done that I'm sure that number would be much lower right now.
 
I hated that the Civil Rights movements ended as an "equal access to white people's shit" rather than a "get white people to leave us alone" movement.

^^^ this

The more I read about the Civil Rights movement, this is the result that I think hurt us more than many people realize. Probably to this day
 
Whether or not someone would work for $2/hour with no bathroom breaks has nothing to do with the decision being made for him and an act of voluntary employment being made illegal.
The problem is there are no guarantees and even less oversight so if you get cheated theres no real recourse.

Walmart and its staffing agencies failed to follow federal minimum wage and overtime laws when it required temporary workers to appear early for work, stay late to complete work and work through lunches and breaks, according to a federal class-action lawsuit filed Monday.

The suit, filed in U.S. District Court in Chicago, claims staff agencies Labor Ready-Midwest, Inc. and QPS Employment Group, Inc. failed to provide workers assigned to work at Walmart stores employment and proper wage payment notices that are required by the Illinois Day and Temporary Labor Services Act.

Walmart also failed to keep accurate records of workers’ time as required by federal and state law and has failed to provide workers with forms verifying hours worked, the suit said.

Walmart and its staffing agencies also failed to pay workers a minimum of four hours pay on days when they were contracted to work, but not utilized for a minimum of four hours, which is required under state law.

Walmart and its staffing agencies also failed to pay minimum wage for all time the employees worked, which included participating in trainings without compensation, appearing early for work, staying late to complete work, and working through lunches and breaks.

Since October 2009 through the present, these state and federal law violations are alleged to have occurred.

The 13-count suit claims violations of the Fair Labor Standards, Illinois Wage Payment and Collection, and Illinois Day and Temporary Labor Services acts. It also claims a violation of the Illinois Minimum Wage Law.

The suit seeks all unpaid wages for the workers and an injunction preventing Walmart and its staffing agencies from future violations of state labor laws. The suit also seeks unspecified damages, attorney fees and other court costs.

Spokespeople for Walmart and Labor Ready-Midwest were not immediately available for comment. Anne Jabusch, spokeswoman for QPS Employment, said the company was reviewing the matter and could not comment.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/10/22/temp-workers-file-class-action-lawsuit-against-walmart/

if there was no minimum wage those workers would just be fucked over.

working off the books or under the table is available and while its not legal its not like theres a gestapo force shutting down businesses and arresting people for it. Hell asians and latinos particularly illegals do nothing but UTT jobs for a fraction of what its worth in basic labor and domestic jobs and if theres any bruhaha about it its becuz of the fact that theyre illegals and not that theyre working off the books. Again it boils down to who wants to work for 2 bucks a hour. Take away the minimum wage standard and Walmart effectively becomes a sweatshop.


And you still didn't answer why the GOP would do the outreach. If we all concede that they can win elections without the black vote, then why would they bother. Your reasoning keeps revolving around what good it would do for black people.
well thats the only reason to even particpate in the process isn't it??

GOP outreach would be a waste of time unless they only suggest Democratic positions to appeal to very satisfied Democratic black voters.
Jobs isn't a democratic position. better funding and reform to education isn't a democratic position. If republicans were able to show and prove on both or either of these fronts you don't think blacks in that disctrict or region wouldn't vote and support the republican candidate?
 
The problem is there are no guarantees and even less oversight so if you get cheated theres no real recourse.
You can't argue that poor workers have no "real recourse," then as proof cite the details of a class-action lawsuit. That counts as recourse.

if there was no minimum wage those workers would just be fucked over.
They're already getting fucked. However, you're using emotions and mixing up the correlation. They aren't getting fucked because of a specific wage level, but instead because they are a specific class of workers. Chicago's minimum wage is $9/hour. That's more than 400% the arbitrary $2/hour you hypothesized. But since you yourself provided evidence of available recourses, we can leave it to the workers themselves whether to take the job or not.

Leave poor people alone.

working off the books or under the table is available and while its not legal its not like theres a gestapo force shutting down businesses and arresting people for it.
No individual should have to enter an illegal status for work that would, other than the wage level, be considered legal.

What kind of morality do you abide by if you feel it's more reasonable to advocate people taking an illegal action to feed themselves rather than just get rid of the minimum wage. Your argument about working under the table concedes that there is a strong demand from workers and employers to set their own terms independent of society's arbitrary whims.

Leave poor people alone.

Again it boils down to who wants to work for 2 bucks a hour. Take away the minimum wage standard and Walmart effectively becomes a sweatshop.
The problem in this country is that we treat poor people like they're mildly retarded. We let them live on their own but every major decision like where they work has to meet their guardian's (society) approval.

In your post, you describe a number of conditional you think are abhorrent and goes against your sensibility regarding what it means to be a worker, but you never laid out who you think you are to make that decision for the millions of poor people that would disagree with you.

Jobs isn't a democratic position. better funding and reform to education isn't a democratic position. If republicans were able to show and prove on both or either of these fronts you don't think blacks in that disctrict or region wouldn't vote and support the republican candidate?
There are official Republican positions that differs from the Democratic positions. Black people don't prefer the Republican position, they support the Democratic positions. By your logic, the Republicans should develop a position that appeals to black people, which would mean the more Democratic position that black people prefer. Why would Republicans see becoming more Democratic as beneficial to them? Republicans have no realistic chance of capturing the black vote so they shouldn't even waste time and effort.
 
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