This is a great thread!!!!!!
Just a bit about me before you read...that way you'll understand where I'm coming from.
I'm a 30 year old Male from NJ. I grew up in the city but recieved a scholarship to a Quaker School for grades 9-12. Went to college on a basketball scholarship then to Law School...and Now I teach Legal Studies.
The reason why I am telling you all this is because I have seen the intimate side of both spectrums. I can remember leaving my home on the bus and getting to school and my classmate...17 years old had Porsche keys....his home has elevators in it....The Family owned the "Italian Bistro Restaurants." My high school was near 20k a year...College was near 30...and Law School was 65k. I now have two sets of associates and each side would answer this question differently. I'm going to give you my interpretation. I guess you can imagine that a majority of my friends would not adopt my views on this question.
First off that conversation you and your associates were having was loaded and could have lasted for days without coming to a definitive answer.
But...with that said I'm going to add my 2 cents. I agree that self will be the predominant 1st choice, but if you delve a bit deeper our sense of self is usually shaped by our religious beliefs (95% of us anyway) which lead me to say that God may or the higher being to which we ascribe to, may the most aggressive force driving us.
I would say that community should be number 2. The familial structure is included in this term "community" and each individual will have to prioritize his/her community values. For most of our family will be the community to which we place our most energy.
**What we too have to realize is that the ordering of these drives will be different for Men and Women. Men of substance should be able to see that by ordering you priorities to serve your family and your community you undoubtedly serve to protect the women and children of that same community. And by protecting the women of your community you ensure that you in turn will be cared for.
And I agree that the third is protection of community...as it should be!
Sometimes it is difficult to see or understand but when you live this way you feel a sense of strength and accomplishment that self service cannot fulfill.
Interesting perspective Jeruzalum.
However, I think there might be a whole bunch of atheists and agnostics that would disagree with you on the religion thing. In the United States I think that number would be about 16% or so. At least those who openly identify. Given the sample size which I think was >70% of the population, I'd say that's a significant stat. And i think it's a little less than 15% world wide.
I'm just curious where you get your 95%, and I'm assuming you're referring to 95% of the religious?
But even if that were the case, the actions of most religious people are ususally compelled by fear (of going to hell for eternity or reincarnating as a stop sign or some lower form thing) and guilt (of sinning or breaking moral codes) and reward (eternal paradise, 70 virgins, etc).
These are all cognitive emotional experiences that reinforce and drive behavior
Even 'love', in it's most pristine form, (love of God) is correlated with a sense of respect and affection for yourself, your neighbor and your environment which all appeal to self preservation and the sense of community.
The whole concept of religion can be viewed, in a sense, as a mechanism where dogma is used to drive societal behavior to favor the spread of an ideology which then feeds back into the closed loop. There are fields of study related to this stuff ... memetics, game theory, etc.
Pretty cool stuff, but I digress.
Is it really? I believe that one can have a false sense of awareness, (just like one can have a false sense of truth), but the concept isn't really that vague- or is it?
I think it is.
Having a false sense of awareness (delusion) is different from "self-awareness".
As for false sense of truth, that's a whole different topic.
Though a family or a group of families can make a community, does ensuring your children are taken care of build a community?
Yes.
To further clarify this answer, do this exercise: ask yourself why you take care of your kids, then ask why your answer is what it is and go on until you get to the end.
I had a different take of community and keeping it preserved as a priority, and that is not a part of it. I'm interested as to specifically why you think this.
Why I think family is a subset of community?
. I'm just per perpetually tired...
