Value of Life & Intelligence (CP warning)

[Costanza]

I just saw the movie I Am Sam the other night, a great movie that raises a lot of questions.

I saw the movie on Saturday, the same day I saw a thread here about a 17 year old girl who broke into her ex-roommate's place, tossed the ex-roommate's kitten into her stove, and then left so she didn't have to hear the cat's anguished cries.

Here were some of the replies in the thread:

whats the big deal when i was 14 me and my homeboy put 4 kittens in a folgers coffee can and poured gas on them and threw a match on them and watched them burn hey i was a mean back then ,but hey it's not like i killed a human right

well gaddamn it's a animal not a human what is wrong with you whites and want be whites

do you eat meat what about cows,pigs,goats,sheep,chickens I'm shore they were alive to at one point before the were chopped up and shipped to a store

She's never going to make it in the NFL. PETA will see to it.

LOL@ being outraged.

Yeah it was fucked up, but it's a fucking Cat.

This dude in my city got 9 years in prison for fucking his dog up. 9 YEARS! People do much worse shit and don't get that much. It's a fucking animal, no one should ever go to prison time just for fucking up an animal.

c/s

I don't understand the outrage from people who eat meat You need to google "Earthlings"

She is a sick crazy coward but doesn't mean she should be put under the jail, she is a minor

it's fucked up

but hey, i grew up in the bronx and we used to duck tape m80's to cats, light em and throw them off roofs...

sick i know

but ahhh the good ole days

what the fuck is wrong with all these white pussy ass people ,this whole convo is stupid ,killing animals dont mean shit about your future iv'e killed cats ,dogs ,puppys or kittens and im no killer and i have done no time or even a traffic ticket it don't mean shit hell i know a lot of cops that love dogs and cats but will stick a plunger up a black mans ass and beat him up side his head until it bust ,but thats okay aslong as they dont hurt no fucking animals man fuck you,and fuck you, and oh yeah you little white in the corner yeah you FUCK YOU

The link between the thread and the movie, for me, is that they each raise questions about the value of life and the treatment of those determined to be inferior.

Eugenics is born out of a desire to "improve" the quality of the human species. As such, retarded people-- an unwanted burden for many-- have been a major target of eugenics in history and abortion today:

In 1883 Sir Francis Galton, an English anthropologist, coined the word eugenics, which he later defined as the study of hereditary factors that "improve or impair the racial qualities of future generations." Inspired by eugenics, a number of U.S. states passed laws in the early 20th century allowing those presumed to have bad genes to be sterilized by government order. In 1927 the case of Carrie Buck, a young woman in a Virginia home for the feebleminded, reached the Supreme Court. Writing for an 8-1 decision, Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. said society could "prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind ... Three generations of imbeciles are enough." (Buck's mother and daughter allegedly shared her disability.) The Catholic Church condemned sterilization laws in 1930, but the political process backed science, as it was then understood. The mass murder of "unfit" individuals and ethnic groups by the Nazis gave eugenics a black mark that can never be washed off. But the issue marches on; in 2004 a eugenics supporter won the Republican congressional nomination in Tennessee's Eighth District (the GOP disavowed him).​

Most of the above posters were probably just like the little asshole in the movie at the birthday party when they were kids. The irony is that those people are morally inferior to most retards.

We, as "normal humans," have such a sense of superiority. Most look down on other animals and express this sort of belief:

Man is both the most high and the most base of creation...because he can consiously decide to do or not to do a thing on a consistent basis...Freewill!!

These other animals move because their natural hardwiring dictates....that's why when you put them in a enviroment opposed to their natural one...no telling what you will see fro them

We see a cat running in circles chasing its tail and see it as a stupid cat, subject to the dictates of natural hardwiring and so unlike us. But next time you're huddled next to your laptop pulling one of these moves you might stop and ask yourself how advanced you really are.

Deuterion posted this video earlier, which adds to the point:


Maybe we're a little bit smarter than cats; maybe the average person is a little smarter than the average retard... Yet we're not smart enough to live and let live. Its like intelligence is an obstacle to morality-- we think we're so smart and "the most high" and such, but no kitten could never lower itself to the level of some humans. As limited as the Sam Dawson character is in his abilities, he's a much better father than more intelligent deadbeat dads or many distracted careerists.

 

[SamSneed]

 

[NinjaspiT]

...WHat with all these fema threads?

 

[DoingDamage]

good shit

 

[Costanza]

...WHat with all these fema threads?

Ask Mike Brown, I heard he does a heck of a job explaining these things.

 

[Costanza]

good shit

Just so its known, the first link is to download the movie, for those who haven't seen it.

 

[thegoatantwiz]

We see a cat running in circles chasing its tail and see it as a stupid cat, subject to the dictates of natural hardwiring and so unlike us. But next time you're huddled next to your laptop pulling one of these moves you might stop and ask yourself how advanced you really are.

The difference is we're embarrassed if caught while the cat continues to chase

 

[Les W]

The difference is we're embarrassed if caught while the cat continues to chase

Plz elaborate

Great Thread. I had a weird dream I was watching myself doing it and it looked like the dumbest thing ever Like when you see a dog humpin the couch, I kinda just felt sorry for myself in a funny way.

 

[Deacs]

I'm beginning to believe you care as much about the creatures on this earth as much as humans.

hmmmmm

I do understand the point of animal cruelty
and I believe that you should only eat what you are able to kill

but...

 

[Costanza]

The difference is we're embarrassed if caught while the cat continues to chase

In other words, we're full of shit beyond comparison to any cat.

My point in this thread wasn't to attack religion, but St. Augustine, one of the most impactful figures in the development of Christianity, emphasized the "evil" of sex and wrote that even married couples should lie down with a certain degree of shame.

My point there was how we're just as subject to natural urges as any animal but it seems you've shown how unnatural we are in our behavior-- cats have no shame in their game and we have to cover everything up in embarrassment.

Score one for chasing your tail.

 

[Costanza]

Plz elaborate

Great Thread. I had a weird dream I was watching myself doing it and it looked like the dumbest thing ever Like when you see a dog humpin the couch, I kinda just felt sorry for myself in a funny way.

I'm beginning to believe you care as much about the creatures on this earth as much as humans.

hmmmmm

I do understand the point of animal cruelty
and I believe that you should only eat what you are able to kill

but...

No, I definitely care more about humans that the other creatures on this earth, but that doesn't require thinking as if we were the only creatures on this earth.

I don't think we give nearly enough of a fuck about each other, for the record.

 

[Deacs]

I don't think we give nearly enough of a fuck about each other, for the record.

Agreed in more ways than one.

 

[Rebel-INS]

 

[Les W]

No, I definitely care more about humans that the other creatures on this earth, but that doesn't require thinking as if we were the only creatures on this earth.

I don't think we give nearly enough of a fuck about each other, for the record.

c/s

I think that some people (in all races and cultures) have binary thinking patterns, ex. black and white, yes and no, unable to carry complex conditioned thinking.

Like when a small child only able to say yes and no, will scrape their knee and run to their moms saying "no" "no" "no" "no"

 

[Costanza]

I meant to include this in the original post:



Here is what was said on this clip, from Bill Maher's old Politically Incorrect show on ABC (this was January 2001, months before he made comments in September 2001 that got the show canceled):

"I have two dogs. I have often said if I had two retarded children, I'd be a hero. And the dogs, who are pretty much the same thing--" Maher was cut off by laughter.

He continued, "What? They're sweet. They're loving. They're kind. But they don't mentally advance at all."

Maher apologized (here) and he was definitely brash and more rude than I could have been but what he's saying isn't too far from what this thread is about.

This harkens back to the post by Deacs, though; I don't think having two dogs can be compared to taking care of two retarded people. (Maher sits on the board of PETA, if that lends insight into his perspective.) On the other hand, his comparison does have some merit.

 

[bizzyboddy]

It's ironic that Martin Short is in this clip laughing, as his abilities have since been famously retarded by Parkinson's Disease.

Michael J. Fox has Parkinson's Disease not martin short.

 

[Costanza]

Michael J. Fox has Parkinson's Disease not martin short.

Oh yeah, you're right, my bad. Confused them. I'll edit that out.

 

[Mr MajestiK]

I just saw the movie I Am Sam the other night, a great movie that raises a lot of questions.

I saw the movie on Saturday, the same day I saw a thread here about a 17 year old girl who broke into her ex-roommate's place, tossed the ex-roommate's kitten into her stove, and then left so she didn't have to hear the cat's anguished cries.

Here were some of the replies in the thread:

















The link between the thread and the movie, for me, is that they each raise questions about the value of life and the treatment of those determined to be inferior.

Eugenics is born out of a desire to "improve" the quality of the human species. As such, retarded people-- an unwanted burden for many-- have been a major target of eugenics in history and abortion today:

In 1883 Sir Francis Galton, an English anthropologist, coined the word eugenics, which he later defined as the study of hereditary factors that "improve or impair the racial qualities of future generations." Inspired by eugenics, a number of U.S. states passed laws in the early 20th century allowing those presumed to have bad genes to be sterilized by government order. In 1927 the case of Carrie Buck, a young woman in a Virginia home for the feebleminded, reached the Supreme Court. Writing for an 8-1 decision, Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. said society could "prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind ... Three generations of imbeciles are enough." (Buck's mother and daughter allegedly shared her disability.) The Catholic Church condemned sterilization laws in 1930, but the political process backed science, as it was then understood. The mass murder of "unfit" individuals and ethnic groups by the Nazis gave eugenics a black mark that can never be washed off. But the issue marches on; in 2004 a eugenics supporter won the Republican congressional nomination in Tennessee's Eighth District (the GOP disavowed him).​

Most of the above posters were probably just like the little asshole in the movie at the birthday party when they were kids. The irony is that those people are morally inferior to most retards.

We, as "normal humans," have such a sense of superiority. Most look down on other animals and express this sort of belief:


We see a cat running in circles chasing its tail and see it as a stupid cat, subject to the dictates of natural hardwiring and so unlike us. But next time you're huddled next to your laptop pulling one of these moves you might stop and ask yourself how advanced you really are.

Deuterion posted this video earlier, which adds to the point:


Maybe we're a little bit smarter than cats; maybe the average person is a little smarter than the average retard... Yet we're not smart enough to live and let live. Its like intelligence is an obstacle to morality-- we think we're so smart and "the most high" and such, but no kitten could never lower itself to the level of some humans. As limited as the Sam Dawson character is in his abilities, he's a much better father than more intelligent deadbeat dads or many distracted careerists.

This is one of the realest threads I've ever seen in this forum.

Unfortunately, it's underlying message will probably fly over the heads of many.

 

[Costanza]

This is one of the realest threads I've ever seen in this forum.

Unfortunately, it's underlying message will probably fly over the heads of many.

Feel free to add.

 

[Count23]

Good topic but too many retards here to take it seriously.

 

[Mr MajestiK]

Feel free to add.

Not sure what else I could possibly add to the solid post you've dropped but it goes without saying that a person who has no qualms about senselessly ending the life of an animal is probably not going to feel too bad about taking a human life if and when the opportunity arises.

Some heads on here talking about meat eaters and what not killing animals for food and comparing that to animal cruelty or blood sports.

What part of the game is that?

 

[Costanza]

Not sure what else I could possibly add to the solid post you've dropped but it goes without saying that a person who has no qualms about senselessly ending the life of an animal is probably not going to feel too bad about taking a human life if and when the opportunity arises.

Some heads on here talking about meat eaters and what not killing animals for food and comparing that to animal cruelty or blood sports.

What part of the game is that?

Its absurd, though there is reason for concern with the way we treat animals meant for food; you can't compare the actions of consumers, largely ignorant to the facts, to the mental state required to carry out the type of needless cruelty discused in the OP but its horrible the way animals are abused in the name of increased profit for the food industry.

Glad you appreciated the thread...

 

[Costanza]

I posted this earlier but the link was pulled so I'm reposting it, the interview reminded me of this reply:

Plz elaborate

Great Thread. I had a weird dream I was watching myself doing it and it looked like the dumbest thing ever Like when you see a dog humpin the couch, I kinda just felt sorry for myself in a funny way.

(Relevent part comes in at the five minute mark)

@ "You vile money lender."

"I've never had an orgasm I didn't regret. Never once in my life. It's so silly. They're so pointless and crazy."

With his self-deprecating Jew humor I'm sure he came to this conclusion at least partly from religious guilt, though...

 

[Costanza]

Eugenics is born out of a desire to "improve" the quality of the human species. As such, retarded people-- an unwanted burden for many-- have been a major target of eugenics in history and abortion today:

In 1883 Sir Francis Galton, an English anthropologist, coined the word eugenics, which he later defined as the study of hereditary factors that "improve or impair the racial qualities of future generations." Inspired by eugenics, a number of U.S. states passed laws in the early 20th century allowing those presumed to have bad genes to be sterilized by government order. In 1927 the case of Carrie Buck, a young woman in a Virginia home for the feebleminded, reached the Supreme Court. Writing for an 8-1 decision, Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. said society could "prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind ... Three generations of imbeciles are enough." (Buck's mother and daughter allegedly shared her disability.) The Catholic Church condemned sterilization laws in 1930, but the political process backed science, as it was then understood. The mass murder of "unfit" individuals and ethnic groups by the Nazis gave eugenics a black mark that can never be washed off. But the issue marches on; in 2004 a eugenics supporter won the Republican congressional nomination in Tennessee's Eighth District (the GOP disavowed him).​

Nixon: The unexpurgated words of a President close to the edge
Recordings from the former US President's ill-fated second term reveal his private views on everything from abortion to the Jews and beautiful women
By David Usborne
Thursday, 25 June 2009

The release of more taped conversations has added to the intrigue that surrounds the story of Richard Nixon

The release of more taped conversations has added to the intrigue that surrounds the story of Richard Nixon

Nixon addicts everywhere are not to be disturbed as they devour one more delicacy served up by the National Archives: 150 more hours of secretly taped conversations from the White House in early 1973 packed with fresh tidbits from the often angry synapses of the late, disgraced president's mind.

The latest installment of Nixonalia, held back until now in part because the poor quality of the under-the-table recordings, is unlikely to change history's perception of the 37th president. Rather, it will re-enforce the national memory of a hard-boiled leader prone to blasphemy, bursts of impatience and views on modern society – notably here on abortion, Jews and women – that were, well, not quite modern.

It was a day after the Supreme Court legalised abortion in its Roe vs Wade ruling, and Mr Nixon wonders aloud about wisdom of the judgement with his senior aide Charles Colson. He worries that abortion "breaks the family" and its legalisation could encourage "permissiveness". On the other hand, he offers: "There are times when an abortion is necessary. I know that. When you have a black and a white. Or a rape."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...of-a-president-close-to-the-edge-1718057.html

 

[PanzerBob]

Maybe once we sort out how we treat humans, then maybe I'll give a rat's ass about animals!!!

Bob out

 

[Costanza]

Maybe once we sort out how we treat humans, then maybe I'll give a rat's ass about animals!!!

Bob out

Why does one good have to be sacrificed for another?

I agree treating humans right is more important but I don't see why its not possible to do both at the same time.

It could even work hand in hand-- A lot of people mentioned that these kids who kill animals show the tendencies of future serial killers; maybe love and respect for life breeds further love and respect for life.

 

[mailboxpimp]

Man ................................ That's What's Up! Great Post!!!

I Just Cant Understand How Hurting An Animal Is Funny????????????

A Person Maybe................ Depending On The Situation & Circumstance..........

 

[Costanza]

Ezekiel Emanuel: Death to Those With Dementia, as Useless Eaters

July 21, 2009 (LPAC)-- Ezekiel Emanuel, the top healthcare adviser at Obama's Budget Office and brother of his chief of staff, believes it is "obvious" that people with Alzheimer's or other forms of dementia (estimated as one of three people who live beyond the age of 65) should be denied health-care, since they are "irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens." An essay published in the Hastings Center Report (Nov-Dec 1996) by Emanuel, Norman Daniels and Bruce Jennings, says in part:

"This civic republican or deliberative democratic conception of the good provides both procedural and substantive insights for developing a just allocation of health care resources. Procedurally, it suggests the need for public forums to deliberate about which health services should be considered basic and should be socially guaranteed. Substantively, it suggests services that promote the continuation of the polity - those that ensure healthy future generations, ensure development of practical reasoning skills, and ensure full and active participation by citizens in public deliberation - are to be socially guaranteed as basic. Conversely, services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed. An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia."

http://www.larouchepac.com/node/11094

 

[Costanza]

I'm not posting this because I believe Palin's depiction is accurate or fair but because the subject matter is related. (I'll add that it is a smart card to play politically.)

Sarah Palin: Statement on the Current Health Care Debate

Statement on the Current Health Care Debate
Yesterday at 1:26pm

As more Americans delve into the disturbing details of the nationalized health care plan that the current administration is rushing through Congress, our collective jaw is dropping, and we’re saying not just no, but hell no!

The Democrats promise that a government health care system will reduce the cost of health care, but as the economist Thomas Sowell has pointed out, government health care will not reduce the cost; it will simply refuse to pay the cost. And who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course. The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s “death panel” so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their “level of productivity in society,” whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.

Health care by definition involves life and death decisions. Human rights and human dignity must be at the center of any health care discussion.

Rep. Michele Bachmann highlighted the Orwellian thinking of the president’s health care advisor, Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the brother of the White House chief of staff, in a floor speech to the House of Representatives. I commend her for being a voice for the most precious members of our society, our children and our seniors.

We must step up and engage in this most crucial debate. Nationalizing our health care system is a point of no return for government interference in the lives of its citizens. If we go down this path, there will be no turning back. Ronald Reagan once wrote, “Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we’ll ever see on this earth.” Let’s stop and think and make our voices heard before it’s too late.

- Sarah Palin

Rep. Bachmann's speech can be viewed here:


http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=113851103434

 

[jblaque]

Excellent read.................

 

[3sacrowd]

Thumbs up. Good read.

 

[Rzt921]

Ezekiel's views are far outside the normal parameters of civilized human behavior and thus are of no consequence.

As for the issue of base human impulses, they do lower us and make us in some ways no better than the other animals with whom we share this planet, ergo it would be best if we were to substantially reduce their ability to impinge upon our consciousness.

And to the issue of protecting animals, I would say that we should be able to extend our ability to care to them given that if one views the history of humanity as a continuum, we see that to do so is evidence of our moral progress.

 

[finessse]

 

[Les W]

I'm not going to go into the equally corrupt myopic insanity that is politics in regards to a heath care system already successfully in place in other countries with a variety of governments and economies, this is simply silly imo...on to the orginal topic

Its absurd, though there is reason for concern with the way we treat animals meant for food; you can't compare the actions of consumers, largely ignorant to the facts, to the mental state required to carry out the type of needless cruelty discused in the OP but its horrible the way animals are abused in the name of increased profit for the food industry.

Since when especially in the information age has WILLFUL ignorance/looking the other way, been a VALID defense? TOP THAT OFF with the fact that most people cannot escape the CONSTANT bombardment of the "news" ....PURE IGNORANCE to anyone with an IQ over 70 is extinct

 

[Flawless]