U.S. economy still shaky; France, Germany show life

thoughtone

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When will you right wingers realize that its Reaganomics that is fucking us up!

source: Reuters

Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:37pm EDT

CHICAGO (Reuters) - Fresh data on Thursday dented hopes the U.S. economy is on the verge of a strong rebound, even as Western Europe's two largest economies reported a surprising return to growth in the second quarter.

Many pundits had expected the United States to lead the global economy out of recession, but the world's largest economy was soundly beaten to the punch as its retail sector struggled to lure skittish consumers.

Massive job losses and sharp declines in the housing market have prompted many Americans to pare back spending.

U.S. households are "in no position to drive a decent economic recovery," said Paul Dales, economist at Capital Economics in Toronto.

But prospects for a U.S. recovery got a boost from news that hedge fund manager John Paulson, who made a fortune betting against financial companies in 2007, had bought shares of selected banks and drug makers.

And prices for copper, a key industrial material, jumped to fresh 2009 highs on a brighter global demand outlook.

An unexpected rise in second-quarter GDP in Germany and France, pillars of the euro zone economy, boosted financial markets, which are still fretting over the potential for a global economic pickup.

German Economy Minister Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg was cautious about the figures. "There are no grounds for euphoria, because we're still a long way from seeing the economy back at the level that it was at last year."

Europe's recovery will likely be patchy at best, with Britain, Italy and the Netherlands still weak and parts of eastern Europe, which rely heavily on exporting to the wealthier western nations, reporting a far gloomier outlook.

GDP in the euro zone fell in the second quarter, albeit by a marginal 0.1 percent.

Germany and France emerged from lengthy recessions in April-June, with their gross domestic product rising 0.3 percent quarter-on-quarter [ID:nLD331672]. The much smaller Portuguese and Greek economies matched that growth.

The surprising German data came just weeks before its citizens head for the polls. The country's jobless rate fell in July for the first time in nine months.

"It looks like the recession's over. We're entering a phase of stabilization and slow growth," Christian Dreger at the DIW Institute. "The main risk for Germany is a sharp rise in unemployment."

U.S. CONSUMERS NOT SPENDING

U.S. retail sales for July were much weaker than forecast, while weekly jobless claims rose more than expected.

Retail sales excluding automobiles and gasoline, a popular measure with analysts, fell by 0.4 percent. It was the fifth consecutive monthly decline.

Headline retail sales fell by only 0.1 percent as the government's "cash for clunkers" auto subsidy program drove more traffic to car dealerships. But new car sales may have drawn demand from other parts of the retail universe.

"While vehicle sales have rebounded, core retail sales have floundered after severe declines in late 2008," said Steven Wieting, economist at Citigroup.

On the jobless front, those filing for unemployment benefits for the first time in the week ended August 8 came in at an unexpectedly higher 558,000, prompting doubts that the long, deep cycle of U.S. layoffs is finally ending.

The latest reading on continued claims, or those staying on the unemployment rolls, fell to 6.2 million from 6.3 million, a decline that suggested more long-term unemployed workers are exhausting their benefits.

Taken together, the data dulled hopes for a consumer-led U.S. recovery are elusive. Some forecasters see that trend as part of the "new normal" for the United States: one that will keep economic growth low even when the brutal recession ends, which many expect to happen in the current quarter.

Markets need to get used to "a world without the U.S. consumer as last resort," said Alan Ruskin, chief international strategist at RBS Securities in Greenwich, Connecticut.

On Wednesday, the U.S. Federal Reserve issued a more upbeat, if guarded, assessment of the U.S. economy.

Following a two-day policy meeting it said the economy is "leveling out," the first time in a year that its post-meeting guidance did not characterize the economy as contracting, weakening, or slowing.

WAL-MART EARNINGS BEAT STREET, DESPITE SOFT SALES

Wal-Mart Stores Inc. the world's largest retailer, reported on Thursday unexpectedly better earnings, but it warned that the economy remained a challenge.

The key metric for the giant discounter -- sales at stores open at least a year -- unexpectedly fell by 1.2 percent. Wall Street had looked for a gain of 0.85 percent.

Wal-Mart has benefited from "trade-down" from pricier retail chains, as many American consumers attempt to save cash, especially on staple items such as groceries and household products. But even that trend has its limits.

"Our customers are more disciplined in their spending," Wal-Mart CEO Mike Duke said on a recorded call, adding that customers are saving more and consuming less.

Department store operator Kohl's Corp gave a grim outlook for the rest of the year, looking for same-store sales at its 1,000-plus outlets to fall as much as 5 percent.

STOCKS, EURO, INDUSTRIAL METALS RISE

Stocks, commodities and the euro rose due to the GDP surprise, while the dollar dipped. The euro climbed 0.4 percent to $1.4288, and the dollar was down 0.5 percent against a basket of major currencies as investors switched to riskier assets such as commodities.

World stocks as measured by MSCI were up 1.1 percent, with U.S. markets rising despite the soft economic data. Wal-Mart surged by 2.8 percent to a four-month high.

Major U.S. stock indices are bumping their 2009 highs. Paulson's disclosure late on Wednesday that he bought large stakes in several banks, including Bank of America Corp., lifted financial stocks and helped sustain the rally.

Paulson of the eponymous Paulson & Co is credited for anticipating the looming credit crisis in 2007.

Meanwhile, copper led advances among industrial metals, reaching a 10-month high of $6,450 a tonne on the London Metal Exchange. Lead, zinc and aluminum prices also rose.

"The German numbers are very helpful, the French numbers are very helpful, and that's supporting the copper market," said Sterling Smith, analyst for Country Hedging in Inner Grove Heights, Minnesota. "I think it helps confirm the sentiment that we are beginning a very slow recovery."
 
When will you right wingers realize that its Reaganomics that is fucking us up!

this is economics not political ideology. Economic growth = production + 'private' capital investment. The policies of the last 11 years have done none of this.

Instead of the recession being avoided, it should be welcomed because all the malinvestment of the last 11 years would be purged, prices would come down and we can start restoring our 'productive capacity'

We need more production and saving and less borrowing to consume.
You still follow Krugman?
 
Please bro, don't do that. Refrain from the name calling.

I know a lot of us have been guilty of it lately but lets see
if we can't restore civility.

BTW, don't go telling me that truth is an absolute defense, either.

QueEx
 
Please bro, don't do that. Refrain from the name calling.

I know a lot of us have been guilty of it lately but lets see
if we can't restore civility.

BTW, don't go telling me that truth is an absolute defense, either.

QueEx

Noted! But the truth shall set you free.
 
You are dumb!

I can't lie, I woke up this morning crackin up when I read that! :D
However, this is what I found:

Voters in Germany handed Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservatives a victory and a crushing defeat to the Social Democrats in Sunday's EU parliamentary vote, just months before a national election.

facepalm.jpg
 
the right will not hear you.
US has a population of over 300 million. France and Germany combined not close
 
Shaking_head.gif

Lamarr, QueEx, don't have the heart to explain it to him.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,4309485,00.html

Merkel's conservative party trounces Social Democrats in EU vote

German Chancellor Angela Merkel voting in EU elections
Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Merkel's conservatives suffered losses but still emerged on top
Voters in Germany handed Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservatives a victory and a crushing defeat to the Social Democrats in Sunday's EU parliamentary vote, just months before a national election.


Chancellor Merkel's conservative Christian Democrats (CDU) and its Bavaria-only sister party, the Christian Social Union, came in first with 38.8 percent of the votes but suffered substantial losses compared to the 2004 result of 44.5 percent.



The second-placed Social Democrats (SPD) garnered only on 21.1 percent -- a historic low for the center-left party. The SPD, junior partners in Merkel's uneasy grand coalition, had expected to improve on 2004's 21.5 percent.



Despite the negative trend, CDU General Secretary Ronald Pofalla said his party was satisfied with the results.



Guido westerwelle and Silvana Koch-Mehrin of the FDPBildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: The FDP was the biggest winner -- party leader Guido Westerwelle with colleague Silvana Koch-Mehrin"We will be able to build on these results in preparation for national elections in September. We have achieved our mission: the CDU is by far the strongest political party in Germany."



EU polls seen as a test for German national elections



The Social Democrats' poor showing is expected to trigger some searching questions ahead of September's general election, in which both CDU and SPD have hoped to seek new alternatives to their current uneasy grand coalition.



"It is a disappointing result; there is no other way of putting it," German Vice-Chancellor Frank-Walter Steinmeier, the SPD's candidate to challenge Angela Merkel, said.



The pro-business Free Democrats (FDP), Merkel's preferred coalition partners after September, were the biggest winner of Sunday's vote, with their score soaring to 10.6 percent from 6.1 percent.



The Greens were the third strongest party with 11.6 percent of the vote, compared to 11.9 percent in 2004. The hard-line socialist party The Left improved its score to 7.5 percent from 6.1 percent. But it wasn't as high as had been predicted by some analysts. The Left had hoped to benefit more from voter dissatisfaction with the government’s attempts to deal with the economic crisis.



Campaigns dominated by national, not European issues



Election posters Bildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Campaigning across Germany failed to bring more people to the ballot boxNone of the remaining smaller parties managed to gather enough votes for a ticket to the European Parliament. The EU vote is seen as a crucial test for German national elections in September.



Leading into Sunday's election, voter turnout had been expected to be at a record low. Eventually, 43.3 percent of eligible German voters cast their ballots, up from 43 percent in 2004.



With its 99 seats, out of a total of 736, Germany has the largest contingent of deputies in the European Parliament.



Election campaigns in Germany had been dominated by national issues and the struggle against the global recession.



av/dpa/AFP/Reuters
Editor: Andreas Illmer




I guess this dumb conservative was right EH?

BTW, thanks for proving my side right.

Lamarr please explain him what I meant by that statement.....
 
I read the article. The conservatives are not the same conservatives in the US. They believe in national health insurance, they had government stimulus for new GERMAN built automobiles before the US's 'Cash for Clunkers' program, which allowed for automobiles made anywhere. In fact their stimulus was greater percentage wise than ours was. What makes them conservative is that they are pro German business, and anti immigrant. They would be considered moderate Democratic Party if they were in the United States. At least act like you read something other than celebrity gossip!

source: The Local

Christian Democrats pledge to triple funding for electric cars
Published: 25 Aug 09 12:23 CET
Online: http://www.thelocal.de/sci-tech/20090825-21475.html

Hoping to burnish their green credentials ahead of next month's election, Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservative Christian Democrats have pledged to triple state funding for developing electric cars if they win, the Financial Times Deutschland reported on Tuesday.

The state must help with investments into research and development of electric cars if they are to advance," said Volker Kauder, the conservatives' parliamentary leader.

At the forefront of this research is work on battery technology, which has so far been the focus of an economic stimulus package of approximately €500 million from the government, but Germany still lags far behind research in Japan and China, according to the report.

"I can envisage a further €1 billion being put towards research into battery technology under a new government," Kauder said.

Merkel's ruling right-left coalition of Christian and Social Democrats announced last week that Berlin aimed to get around one million electronic vehicles onto Germany's streets by 2020. But the opposition and environmental groups criticised the lack of subsidies for the purchase of electric cars, which are significantly more expensive than conventional vehicles.

Despite such criticism, Kauder ruled out the possibility of a subsidised sale programme, such as that suggested by Environment Minister Sigmar Gabriel, a member of the centre-left Social Democrats. Under Gabriel’s plan, the state would pay a subsidy of around €5,000 for each electric car.

“The electric car must penetrate the market on its own,” Kauder said.

Kauder instead chastised the failure of German car manufacturers to put real effort into producing electric cars.

“I call on German car manufacturers to correct this, and train specialised workers for electric cars as fast as possible,” he told the paper. “Either way, it will be at least another year until we see electric cars around on our streets.”
 
I read the article. The conservatives are not the same conservatives in the US. They believe in national health insurance, they had government stimulus for new GERMAN built automobiles before the US's 'Cash for Clunkers' program, which allowed for automobiles made anywhere. In fact their stimulus was greater percentage wise than ours was. What makes them conservative is that they are pro German business, and anti immigrant. They would be considered moderate Democratic Party if they were in the United States. At least act like you read something other than celebrity gossip!

source: The Local

Christian Democrats pledge to triple funding for electric cars
Published: 25 Aug 09 12:23 CET
Online: http://www.thelocal.de/sci-tech/20090825-21475.html

Hoping to burnish their green credentials ahead of next month's election, Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservative Christian Democrats have pledged to triple state funding for developing electric cars if they win, the Financial Times Deutschland reported on Tuesday.

The state must help with investments into research and development of electric cars if they are to advance," said Volker Kauder, the conservatives' parliamentary leader.

At the forefront of this research is work on battery technology, which has so far been the focus of an economic stimulus package of approximately €500 million from the government, but Germany still lags far behind research in Japan and China, according to the report.

"I can envisage a further €1 billion being put towards research into battery technology under a new government," Kauder said.

Merkel's ruling right-left coalition of Christian and Social Democrats announced last week that Berlin aimed to get around one million electronic vehicles onto Germany's streets by 2020. But the opposition and environmental groups criticised the lack of subsidies for the purchase of electric cars, which are significantly more expensive than conventional vehicles.

Despite such criticism, Kauder ruled out the possibility of a subsidised sale programme, such as that suggested by Environment Minister Sigmar Gabriel, a member of the centre-left Social Democrats. Under Gabriel’s plan, the state would pay a subsidy of around €5,000 for each electric car.

“The electric car must penetrate the market on its own,” Kauder said.

Kauder instead chastised the failure of German car manufacturers to put real effort into producing electric cars.

“I call on German car manufacturers to correct this, and train specialised workers for electric cars as fast as possible,” he told the paper. “Either way, it will be at least another year until we see electric cars around on our streets.”

Do you know who started the idea of "cash for clunkers" in the first place?

If you go back to the Clinton Administration, there was a congressmen *a republican congressmen I might add* who started helped started the first version of the program. His name was Joe Barton. See, Texas been doing this before you even knew how conservative Texas really was. If you don't believe me, go look the shit up. I'm pretty sure that the first version of "cash for clunkers" started in Texas during the Clean Air Act time line. BTW, during that time, republicans were ok with the program as long as it stayed within the states power. Many do not like it right now because, they feel that it has become a overblown bureaucracy on the federal level.

However, your mental makeup consist of, finding what conservatives/republicans are against, whine without hearing the other side, post a huffington post article supporting your whine, and call whoever who agrees with the republican/conservative "dumb" "wingnut" "lost credibility".
 
Do you know who started the idea of "cash for clunkers" in the first place?

If you go back to the Clinton Administration, there was a congressmen *a republican congressmen I might add* who started helped started the first version of the program. His name was Joe Barton. See, Texas been doing this before you even knew how conservative Texas really was. If you don't believe me, go look the shit up. I'm pretty sure that the first version of "cash for clunkers" started in Texas during the Clean Air Act time line. BTW, during that time, republicans were ok with the program as long as it stayed within the states power. Many do not like it right now because, they feel that it has become a overblown bureaucracy on the federal level.

However, your mental makeup consist of, finding what conservatives/republicans are against, whine without hearing the other side, post a huffington post article supporting your whine, and call whoever who agrees with the republican/conservative "dumb" "wingnut" "lost credibility".

If you go back to the Clinton Administration, there was a congressmen *a republican congressmen...

Please post this speculation. It’s not that I don’t believe you, because I don’t so post his name.

His name was Joe Barton. See, Texas been doing this before you even knew how conservative Texas really was. If you don't believe me, go look the shit up.

So he was for it before he was against it. I did "look the shit up" and all I found is that Barton voted against the stimulus package which the “Cash for Clunkers’ program contains and then voted for the extension of it. Sounds like he is trying to hop aboard the successful government program band wagon to me!

I'm pretty sure that the first version of "cash for clunkers" started in Texas during the Clean Air Act time line

Yea, right!:lol: Post the evidence. Until then, it is something you heard on right wing radio. I deal in facts not, “I'm pretty sure.”

BTW, during that time, republicans were ok with the program as long as it stayed within the states power.

Sure, and air and water don’t flow over state lines. This is what I’m talking about. Using your brain to reason things out rather than parrot rhetoric.

Many do not like it right now because, they feel that it has become a overblown bureaucracy on the federal level.

Today’s republicans are the party of NO!

However, your mental makeup consist of, finding what conservatives/republicans are against, whine without hearing the other side, post a huffington post article supporting your whine, and call whoever who agrees with the republican/conservative "dumb" "wingnut" "lost credibility".

I would love to hear the conservative/republican alternative view, however they generally don’t have one. They make up stuff like, “they want to kill granny” and Obama was not born in the United States when they have not presented and credibly evidence to the contrary. Give me a reason to agree with them (you) other than, “You’re going to fast”.
 
Please post this speculation. It’s not that I don’t believe you, because I don’t so post his name.



So he was for it before he was against it. I did "look the shit up" and all I found is that Barton voted against the stimulus package which the “Cash for Clunkers’ program contains and then voted for the extension of it. Sounds like he is trying to hop aboard the successful government program band wagon to me!



Yea, right!:lol: Post the evidence. Until then, it is something you heard on right wing radio. I deal in facts not, “I'm pretty sure.”



Sure, and air and water don’t flow over state lines. This is what I’m talking about. Using your brain to reason things out rather than parrot rhetoric.



Today’s republicans are the party of NO!



I would love to hear the conservative/republican alternative view, however they generally don’t have one. They make up stuff like, “they want to kill granny” and Obama was not born in the United States when they have not presented and credibly evidence to the contrary. Give me a reason to agree with them (you) other than, “You’re going to fast”.

1. If you read the last part of my statement, the republicans believe that the "cash for clunkers" program would of worked better if it was state sponsored more than FEDERAL sponsored. They felt that the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT would of made things more complicated than it should be. What we aren't hearing about the "cash for clunkers" program is HOW the dealership will get reimburse by the government.

2. If my memory is correct, I remember Joe Barton stating that he did not agree with the stimulus as a whole. That does not mean he didn't want the cash for clunkers program *since he was one of the first to suggest such of a program in the BEGINNING*. Thought, I know you know how the political process work. You know Joe Barton couldn't nitpick between what he like, and what he doesn't like about the stimulus bill. However, how you look at things, if he voted against the bill, he didn't want anything from the bill. Including the program he authored from the beginning.

3. BTW, Joe Barton actually talked about this subject on the Mark Davis show here in Dallas.

http://podcasting.fia.net/5155/3898996.mp3

Oh yea, I never claimed anything about Obama wasn't a citizen. Actually, what I really said is that they need to hurry up, and confirm his citizenship. I haven't said anything about the government killing my granny *in fact both of my grannies are fucking dead....* So, why the hell would I say something like that? In fact, didn't I post the HR 3200 health care bill? Of course, you think I didn't read it *I guess since I can't stand reading the shit you post you assume that I'm illiterate.*
 
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If we could just get rid of the 'Party of No,' we would be growing at a greater rate!


source: Irish Times


German economy shows strong growth

A return to growth in consumer spending allied with buoyant exports helped spur Germany's economy to its fastest rate of expansion since reunification in the second quarter, official data confirmed today.

Growth rose 2.2 per cent on the quarter while exports grew by 8.2 per cent from the previous three months - also the biggest quarterly increase since reunification two decades ago - as German companies profited from a rebound in many of the economy's trading partners.

But the recovery looked broadly-based, with consumer spending growing for the first time since the second quarter of last year, posting quarterly growth of 0.6 per cent.

Construction, recovering after a harsh winter, added 0.5 percentage points to GDP in the April-June period.

Foreign trade and gross capital investment both added 0.8 percentage points to gross domestic product (GDP), said the Federal Statistics Office, which gave a breakdown of quarterly growth data that it first reported on August 13th.

"It must be kept in mind, however, that gross capital investment in particular is still at a relatively low level after the double-digit falls seen at times during economic crisis of 2008/2009," the statistics office said in a statement.

The strong second-quarter performance led Germany's central bank, the Bundesbank, to raise its full-year growth forecast for the economy to 3 per cent last week from 2 per cent previously.

Germany's economic strength has been reflected in the performance of its leading businesses. Of the 30 companies in the blue-chip DAX index, 23 beat market expectations with their earnings in the quarter to end-June and 12 hiked their outlooks.

Reuters
 
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