TV: With Supergirl-Flash Crossover, DC Could Beat Marvel at Its Own Game

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With Supergirl-Flash Crossover, DC Could Beat Marvel at Its Own Game

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CBS’s Melissa Benoist–led Supergirl. I’m not exactly sure why crossovers have that kind of emotional effect. Perhaps it's like a birthday party where you introduce two disparate friends and they hit it off right away. Perhaps it’s like being stoned in a freshman-year dorm room and contemplating the ways in which all the particles of the universe are connected to one another. Or perhaps it’s like witnessing the construction of a massive urban-planning project take form.

That last comparison is not an unreasonable metaphor for what Warner and its superhero sub-brand, DC Entertainment, are doing with this crossover. They appear to be building a shared superhero universe that’s more complex and insane than anything that's existed outside of the niche world of comic books. We don’t know exactly what the plot justification of this crossover will be, but there are two logical options: It could be revealed that The Flash’s Central City has been just a few miles away fromSupergirl’s National City all this time, or it could be that they’re parallel universes, accessible to one another only through some interdimensional sci-fi MacGuffin. I hope against hope that it’s the latter option. If it is, DC is making one of the most ambitious creative declarations in all of filmed superhero fiction.

Until now, DC’s eternal rival, the Disney-owned Marvel, has been regarded as the most grandiose builder of connected superhero worlds. Since the release of the interconnected Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk in 2008, Marvel has kicked off the era of the global superhero megabrand by boldly declaring that all of its filmed stories — from The Avengers to Jessica Jones and beyond — exist in the so-called Marvel Cinematic Universe, commonly referred to by the abbreviation MCU. Agent Carter’s title character had a romance with the Captain America of The Avengers, The Avengers’ climactic alien battle devastated the Manhattan of Netflix’sDaredevil, Daredevil’s nurse Claire Temple shows up in a critical episode of Jessica Jones, and so on. It’s a massive project, executed with totalitarian precision by Disney: When a butterfly flaps its wings onAgents of S.H.I.E.L.D., it could cause an earthquake in the next Spider-Man movie.

DC, on the other hand, has generally had a much more shambolic and uncoordinated approach to adaptations of its comic-book icons. The Christopher Nolan Batman movies had nothing to do with the TV showSmallville. The Oliver Queen introduced on Smallville was totally unrelated to the Oliver Queen of Arrow. And none of those characters walked the same Earth as the Superman of 2013’s The Man of Steel. This was all by design. Cynthia Littleton of Variety had a great article about Warner Bros. chairman/CEO Kevin Tsujihara’s approach to fictional universes, which appears to boil down to “the more the merrier.” Movie and TV creators were more or less free to come up with whatever they wanted and not worry about MCU-style cross-brand synergy.

As a result, there's been an explosion of unrelated DC franchises on film and television. We're in the early stages of a DC cinematic universe (its technical name is the DC Extended Universe, or DCEU) where the events of Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice will impact Suicide Squad and subsequent flicks like Aquaman and Justice League. But the DCEU was developed independently of DC’s hit TV shows. The results have been liberating for the average viewer. Marvel forced you to watch Captain America: The Winter Soldier in order to understand the first-season climax of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., but if you’re a fan of DC’s proto-Batman series Gotham, there is absolutely no need to hit the cineplex in order to get caught up. Arrow, The Flash, and Legends of Tomorrow all exist in a shared universe, but it hasn't been tied to the DCEU, Supergirl, orGotham. For the most part, all the DC properties are tubs on their own bottoms.

But a compromise measure could be at hand. If the upcomingSupergirl/Flash crossover is explained through interdimensional means, Warner and DC will have executed a revolutionary have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too maneuver. Flash has heavily featured stories about traveling to parallel universes, so it stands to reason that they could be continuing that plot device here. The results would open a new door for storytelling. Maybe Supergirl and The Flash aren’t taking place on the same planet Earth — but what if, every once in a while, they could visit each other’s Earths for a wild caper?

That’s a well-worn concept in superhero comics of both the Marvel and DC variety. In those printed pages, Batman could get stranded in an alternate reality where Superman is a bad guy; Spider-Man could travel to a parallel universe where someone else got his spider-powers; even the Marvel and DC characters have crossed over with one another a few times, leading to tussles between the Avengers and the Justice League. The possibilities for high-concept stories are limitless — and best of all, when any given story is done, all the characters can retreat to their own home universes and go back to more straightforward adventuring. This conceit is often referred to as a multiverse, and it’s a versatile tool.

If DC’s filmed properties are moving toward a multiverse, more power to them. Sure, multiversal stories have sometimes led to narrative chaos in the world of comics, with alternate versions of characters popping in and out of existence and whole events being retroactively declared to have happened in another universe. But as long as interdimensional tales are kept in moderation, they can add a ton of spice to the superhero genre. The Supergirl/Flash crossover could be the dawn of a new era for DC Entertainment, one in which they rip off the brakes and speed toward the limitless possibilities that have defined mainstream superhero comics for decades. They could, in effect, be out-MCU-ing the MCU in terms of intricate mythology-building.

We’d still mostly get self-contained stories, but creators would have access to a useful backdoor: If someone has a great idea for a story aboutGotham’s Jim Gordon solving a case with The Flash’s Joe West, if there’s a nutty notion about Stephen Amell's Oliver Queen fighting Jared Leto’s Joker, if a writer wants to show a battle between the Superman ofSupergirl and the Superman of The Man of Steel, then any of that is possible within the new DC rulebook. And when one of those stories is over, it's back to your previously scheduled simplicity. It's doubtful that stories like that are on the table right now, but a precedent has been set. DC's film and television properties could soon become a carnival on infinite earths.

 
I get what the author is saying, but DC (WB) would still be playing catch up. Not to mention Marvel (Disney) are kind of using second tier heroes to make hits and as the author said both the tv series and the movies connect already.

I don't see the crossover being anymore special than the typical Arrow/Flash crossovers. The crossovers always seem like a ratings ploy, series introduction or an attempt to get a new audience for fans of one but maybe not both shows.basically at the end of the crossover storyline the events dont seem to have any lasting impact on either series unless it's a setup for a new series like Legends of Tomorrow.

I don't really watch the Marvel TV series but I don't feel like you had to watch any of the individual Avenger members movies to follow or enjoy the the Avengers or Guardians of the Galaxy movies and they feel like a natural integration with long term effects.plus doesn't the same actress who plays agent Carter the same in the movies and TV series.DC could have had more hype around their movies had they did the same with the current flash tv actor or the actor's from Smallville.

I do feel like the DC animated movies/series are better than Marvels though and I don't see that changing.
 
This needs to be the goal. The multiverse gives them a golden opportunity to do some cool shit. The current Flash and Arrow deserves to be a part of the big screen presence in my opinion. If only for the fan service. Not to put them all into the movies from here on out, but since there is a way we should at least get something out of it.
 
Too many what ifs. And too many worlds will confuse the average viewer. Lets see how people react to 2 different Flash actors at the same time before anyone gets excited.
 
All I see Is the CW trying to help out CBS, because Super Girl Is trashtastic and the ratings keep dropping like and anchor. The Flash is one of CW's highest rated tv shows with around 3 million viewers a week followed by the arrow with about 2 mill. there trying to get people interested In super girl.
 
Too many what ifs. And too many worlds will confuse the average viewer. Lets see how people react to 2 different Flash actors at the same time before anyone gets excited.
the average fan is willing to accept anything as along as it looks cool.
 
I get what the author is saying, but DC (WB) would still be playing catch up. Not to mention Marvel (Disney) are kind of using second tier heroes to make hits and as the author said both the tv series and the movies connect already.

I don't see the crossover being anymore special than the typical Arrow/Flash crossovers. The crossovers always seem like a ratings ploy, series introduction or an attempt to get a new audience for fans of one but maybe not both shows.basically at the end of the crossover storyline the events dont seem to have any lasting impact on either series unless it's a setup for a new series like Legends of Tomorrow.

I don't really watch the Marvel TV series but I don't feel like you had to watch any of the individual Avenger members movies to follow or enjoy the the Avengers or Guardians of the Galaxy movies and they feel like a natural integration with long term effects.plus doesn't the same actress who plays agent Carter the same in the movies and TV series.DC could have had more hype around their movies had they did the same with the current flash tv actor or the actor's from Smallville.

I do feel like the DC animated movies/series are better than Marvels though and I don't see that changing.


Good points
 
Too many what ifs. And too many worlds will confuse the average viewer. Lets see how people react to 2 different Flash actors at the same time before anyone gets excited.

I think they'd be better off bringing milestone characters to the tv or movie world.although Marvel has released Blade and working on the Black Panther movie, DC could win by creating a world of black heroes if they were willing to take the risk.I believe the Static animated series was popular at the time it was on WB.it couldn't have been popular just because of blacks watching, so that shows that if a tv or movie is done correctly all people will support black superhero franchises.
 
Whatever! I hate the putting one against the other. I enjoy the works from both companies and just enjoy that I have access to them as a general fan. The rest is just noise!
 
I think they'd be better off bringing milestone characters to the tv or movie world.although Marvel has released Blade and working on the Black Panther movie, DC could win by creating a world of black heroes if they were willing to take the risk.I believe the Static animated series was popular at the time it was on WB.it couldn't have been popular just because of blacks watching, so that shows that if a tv or movie is done correctly all people will support black superhero franchises.

I really like that idea.
 
All I see Is the CW trying to help out CBS, because Super Girl Is trashtastic and the ratings keep dropping like and anchor. The Flash is one of CW's highest rated tv shows with around 3 million viewers a week followed by the arrow with about 2 mill. there trying to get people interested In super girl.

and that is not gonna help because the demographic for each show is different. the average viewer for the flash is not gonna wanna see "the devil wears prada" version of supergirl.
 
DC need to start from scratch and just admit they fucked up by not connecting the tv shows to the movies. We'll forgive them, if they get it right. Its really not too late. We've already forgotten about the Suicide Squad from Arrow and they can recast the TV show Flash to appear in the movies. But then again, would Will Smith really show up on an episode or Flash or Arrow?
 
Having other super heros show up from no where with out proper planning can easily backfire... For example if the Xmen were to all of a sudden pop up in the Marvel ciniverse with out proper expliination, it will be corny as fuck... Even when they decided to include spiderman, they decided to reboot and take their time alowing him to be absorbed in to the bigger story line...
With DC they are attempting to instantaneously capture what Marvel spend over ten years to establish I mean they are going to go from batman being the known super hero, in his world to superman coming from space, super girl all of a sudden showing up, flash, aquaman coming from (where some city under the sea?) Martian Hunter coming from Mars, Hawk people, Wonder Woman popping up from some mysterious island..
Too me, thats too much too fast to the point that it does't make much sense at all..
 
Whatever! I hate the putting one against the other. I enjoy the works from both companies and just enjoy that I have access to them as a general fan. The rest is just noise!

This guy gets it.

Just as I, apparently, had to either listen to Biggie or 2Pac and Nas or Jay-Z, I enjoyed all 4, and kept it pushing. The whole Marvel vs DC is really no different to me.
 
Having other super heros show up from no where with out proper planning can easily backfire... For example if the Xmen were to all of a sudden pop up in the Marvel ciniverse with out proper expliination, it will be corny as fuck... Even when they decided to include spiderman, they decided to reboot and take their time alowing him to be absorbed in to the bigger story line...
With DC they are attempting to instantaneously capture what Marvel spend over ten years to establish I mean they are going to go from batman being the known super hero, in his world to superman coming from space, super girl all of a sudden showing up, flash, aquaman coming from (where some city under the sea?) Martian Hunter coming from Mars, Hawk people, Wonder Woman popping up from some mysterious island..
Too me, thats too much too fast to the point that it does't make much sense at all..

Indeed if that were the case. But the big piece that you're missing is that DC, unlike Marvel separates their universes. In this case, TV represents one universe(or several technically) and Movie represent a completely other universe.

Their reasoning behind this is mainly for flexibility and creativity purposes. Simplistically, Movie and TV people can tell their own stories cast their own actors etc without being tied to either world.

So when you list all those characters above your merging different universes(TV/Movie) into one which isn't the case at least not with DC. However, it's Marvel's strategy, at least initially. They merged their Movie and TV universes so what happens in either media should "technically" have consequences in the other. In the beginning it was cool but if you've paid attention as of late then you can clearly so their going away from that marriage. If you weren't told you would think their Netflix programming (Jessica Jones, Daredevil, Likely Punisher, Luke Cage) etc were in different universe. IMO, I think they are realizing the power of have a "separate" universe to tell stories how you want and cast who you want without having to deal with the crazy logistics of keeping movie and tv everything(characters, stories, casting, etc etc) straight.

Supergirl/Flash = TV Universe
Superman/Batman/Aqua-man/Flash= Movie Universe

Notice Flash is listed twice. Not a typo, because of the different universes DC can get away with this and it makes sense(comic book wise speaking and theoretical M-Verse wise).

However, I would note that DC/WB should try to find a better way(assume it's that big of a problem) of explaining this to a general audience. I say assuming its a problem for this reason. What are the chances that someone that watches The Flash TV Show doesn't know that their is a M-Verse(Movie-verse as an example) with different Flashes etc?
 
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Indeed if that were the case. But the big piece that you're missing is that DC, unlike Marvel separates their universes. In this case, TV represents one universe(or several technically) and Movie represent a completely other universe.

Their reasoning behind this is mainly for flexibility and creativity purposes. Simplistically, Movie and TV people can tell their own stories cast their own actors etc without being tied to either world.
The problem is the DC universe don't make sense... For one if Superman had a relative SuperGirl, where the fuck was she all these years, especially in his origin story... Where was she when he was fighting Zod (ok I kind of get why she would want to stay away from Zod), but if they are the only tow people from their planet and are related you'd think it would be her not Wonder Woman showing out the blue in the new movie...
This is why I say its better the Xmen are in their own universe separate from the Avnegers because by having them together it would be a hard sell trying to explain what the Avengers and agent of Shield were doing while all that end of the world shit is going down in the Xmen...
 
The problem is the DC universe don't make sense... For one if Superman had a relative SuperGirl, where the fuck was she all these years, especially in his origin story... Where was she when he was fighting Zod (ok I kind of get why she would want to stay away from Zod), but if they are the only tow people from their planet and are related you'd think it would be her not Wonder Woman showing out the blue in the new movie...
This is why I say its better the Xmen are in their own universe separate from the Avnegers because by having them together it would be a hard sell trying to explain what the Avengers and agent of Shield were doing while all that end of the world shit is going down in the Xmen...

Maybe Not - :rolleyes2:

20140903171003-7daa493d-me.jpg
 
The fact that your first question AFTER DC universe don't make since is "where was she when he was for firing Zod" tells me you didn't read my post or chose to ignore it or I didn't explain it well.

Fam Supergirl is in the TV WORLD and The Only Superman that fought Zod as we know it now was in the MOVIE WORLD. I've stated several time now that the way DC/WB has built their property those two are separate. So clearly the answer to your question is as of now in the MOVIE UNIVERSE we don't know if she exist, if she's on his earth etc. I'm certain that explanation and that logic can't be that hard to grasp.

The rest of your post stems from an inaccurate position to begin with. Now, whether you like that model from DC/WB is a matter of preference.



The problem is the DC universe don't make sense... For one if Superman had a relative SuperGirl, where the fuck was she all these years, especially in his origin story... Where was she when he was fighting Zod (ok I kind of get why she would want to stay away from Zod), but if they are the only tow people from their planet and are related you'd think it would be her not Wonder Woman showing out the blue in the new movie...
This is why I say its better the Xmen are in their own universe separate from the Avnegers because by having them together it would be a hard sell trying to explain what the Avengers and agent of Shield were doing while all that end of the world shit is going down in the Xmen...
 

I'm not sure how that's an "exactly" conclusion. I understand what Supergirl the TV show is and adjust my mindset from The Flash or Arrow accordingly. I don't understand why the conclusion is that audiences aren't adaptable to enjoy different interpretations of the same material?
 
The problem is the DC universe don't make sense... For one if Superman had a relative SuperGirl, where the fuck was she all these years, especially in his origin story... Where was she when he was fighting Zod (ok I kind of get why she would want to stay away from Zod), but if they are the only tow people from their planet and are related you'd think it would be her not Wonder Woman showing out the blue in the new movie...
This is why I say its better the Xmen are in their own universe separate from the Avnegers because by having them together it would be a hard sell trying to explain what the Avengers and agent of Shield were doing while all that end of the world shit is going down in the Xmen...
Not really it kind of happens in the comics all the time especially the x-men related titles.also the Avengers and X-men don't take place in the same universe because of Fox. If not for Fox, Marvel would more than likely have one world.you could pretty much just mention an event without going into toour much detail.

I don't believe marvel can even use the word mutant and that is part of the reason why the are using the inhumans.
 
The fact that your first question AFTER DC universe don't make since is "where was she when he was for firing Zod" tells me you didn't read my post or chose to ignore it or I didn't explain it well.

Fam Supergirl is in the TV WORLD and The Only Superman that fought Zod as we know it now was in the MOVIE WORLD. I've stated several time now that the way DC/WB has built their property those two are separate. So clearly the answer to your question is as of now in the MOVIE UNIVERSE we don't know if she exist, if she's on his earth etc. I'm certain that explanation and that logic can't be that hard to grasp.

The rest of your post stems from an inaccurate position to begin with. Now, whether you like that model from DC/WB is a matter of preference.
You don't see that as being a bigger problem?
 
You don't see that as being a bigger problem?

I don't understand why that's a "problem" vs it's just a different model? Now, if you want to say there are certain downsides to doing it that way. Then absolutely I agree. However and conversely there are definitely some benefits to that model too.

If anything the fact that DC, Marvel and Sony do things differently I would argue is what makes the genre so rich.
 
I don't understand why that's a "problem" vs it's just a different model? Now, if you want to say there are certain downsides to doing it that way. Then absolutely I agree. However and conversely there are definitely some benefits to that model too.

If anything the fact that DC, Marvel and Sony do things differently I would argue is what makes the genre so rich.
Well for the die hard comic book fans it may not be a problem, but with two flashes and superwoman making references to superman but not in his universe and all the other crazy stuff such as guys fighting giant shark head dudes and giant apes, well that may come off as a little power rangery to the average viewer who is not into comics and cartoons like that... I guess they are catering to a younger audience on tv but in movies they are doing things much different.. This is where the DC gap lies....
Whereby Marvel may be split with Disney and Fox but basically their target audience is in the same ballpark...
 
I would say you have to be a little invested to know that there will be two Flashes in the TV and CINEMATIC universe. Most casual fans as your labeling them imo wouldn't know that. Especially when you consider that Ezra Miller hasn't appeared in any cinematic experience yet. Further as of now, there are no duplicate characters in either universe. No Bats, Sup, Wonder Woman, Green Arrow, Lex, Harley Quinn, Joker, Supergirl etc. So once more how is the general audience getting confused if they aren't invested enough to know about an upcoming Justice League movie will create that sorta duplicati "duplication"? To say they caught the reference of Superman and think of Man of Steel once more points to more than a passing knowledge of DC. Imo, if they can figure that out they certainly can live with DCs model. Imo, either your not giving people enough credit to understanding the difference or you just plain ol are against it no matter what and that's perfectly fine. Because, it's a matter of taste!



Well for the die hard comic book fans it may not be a problem, but with two flashes and superwoman making references to superman but not in his universe and all the other crazy stuff such as guys fighting giant shark head dudes and giant apes, well that may come off as a little power rangery to the average viewer who is not into comics and cartoons like that... I guess they are catering to a younger audience on tv but in movies they are doing things much different.. This is where the DC gap lies....
Whereby Marvel may be split with Disney and Fox but basically their target audience is in the same ballpark...
 
I get what the author is saying, but DC (WB) would still be playing catch up. Not to mention Marvel (Disney) are kind of using second tier heroes to make hits and as the author said both the tv series and the movies connect already.

I don't see the crossover being anymore special than the typical Arrow/Flash crossovers. The crossovers always seem like a ratings ploy, series introduction or an attempt to get a new audience for fans of one but maybe not both shows.basically at the end of the crossover storyline the events dont seem to have any lasting impact on either series unless it's a setup for a new series like Legends of Tomorrow.

I don't really watch the Marvel TV series but I don't feel like you had to watch any of the individual Avenger members movies to follow or enjoy the the Avengers or Guardians of the Galaxy movies and they feel like a natural integration with long term effects.plus doesn't the same actress who plays agent Carter the same in the movies and TV series.DC could have had more hype around their movies had they did the same with the current flash tv actor or the actor's from Smallville.

I do feel like the DC animated movies/series are better than Marvels though and I don't see that changing.

true on the rating ploy. my boy who watches the flash never watched arrow. the vandal savage crossover that started on the flash and finished on arrow, he never saw the second half of that crossover because he doesn't watched arrow. ( by the way 2 part of that story was the best one.)\
 
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