TV Discussion: LOST and that ending UPDATE: 2021 They REALLY need to just admit they messed up!

2 years later, you like the LOST ending?

  • Yes

    Votes: 6 16.7%
  • No

    Votes: 30 83.3%

  • Total voters
    36

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A Disappointed Fan Is Still a Fan
How the creators of Lost seduced and betrayed their viewers.

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http://nymag.com/arts/tv/reviews/66293/

Just over a week ago, as the Lost finale loomed, the faithful made preparations. We baked “smoke monster” cakes; we watched cats on YouTube explain the plot. But mainly, we read interviews with the creative team of Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof (affectionately known to the online horde as Cuselof or Darlton), the show-runners who had, under creator J. J. Abrams, overseen one of the most interactive TV hits in history, a show designed to be mob-solved, scavenged for symbolism, and adored.



They were preparing us. In each interview, with a mix of humility and defensiveness, they repeated that they had “done the best they could.” They had focused on the characters. And we, the viewers, shouldn’t expect answers to everything—some we’d learn on DVD, others would never be resolved. So please stop asking about the four-toed statue. Let it go.



This kind of expectation management is, by now, a baseline responsibility of anyone steering a major TV sensation, and it’s no easy task. Some (Aaron Sorkin) are driven crazy and write entire television series in response to audience critiques; others (David Chase) push back, brilliantly. But like a lot of genre writers, the Lost creators had always been more-forthcoming figures, warm and reassuring, regularly urging the audience that we, as fans, should trust them, and that we should be patient, that while there was no time to explain right now, if we hung on, all would finally be revealed.



Yet as the seasons passed, Darlton were also clearly unnerved by their most passionate devotees, who were busily compiling databases, freezing images for hints and clues, and generally acting like a particularly deranged, faintly Aspergian breed of forensic detectives. In 2007, Lindelof argued that “the really good critics” were fans at heart. “I find there is a very rare instance where your fan brain is having one reaction and your critical brain is having another. The level at which questions are asked of us is polarizing. You can tell it’s personal. If they don’t like it, it’s like they’re offended in a way.”



Real fan-hood, in other words, is, at its purest level, love. As in Corinthians, fan-hood is patient, kind, not rude, etc. (It is also not easily angered and it keeps no record of wrongs.) The Fan of Faith is superior to the Fan of Science, and while it’s natural to have questions, the ideal viewer should behave less like a nagging critic and more like a soul mate, supportive and committed even when doubts creep in.



At one point, during a New York Times panel on the Thursday night before the finale, Lindelof made this romantic-relationship metaphor explicit. In response to a question about fan disappointment, he described a first date that begins with the wrongheaded question “Are you going to disappoint me?” “Just see how it works out!” said Lindelof, in the voice of the show-slash-date. “If you’re going to fall in love with somebody, you have to put aside that fear of disappointment.”



Then again, if you build a show to be loved, heartbreak is always a risk. I’m a serious Lost fan—I watched every episode, I recapped the show online for years, I’m one of the fools who combed Egyptology sites to determine whether that damned statue was Tawaret or Subek—and yet I’m also someone who now thinks of the show as a failure. That fact doesn’t erase the pleasure I got from Locke’s orange-peel grin, but it does change the context. Because like so many, I hung on long after I had doubts: through cage sex, through the successful (but in retrospect nonsensical) time-travel gambit, through those great sequences among the Dharma hippies and into the drippy realm of the last season’s alternative-reality time line (a.k.a. the Sideways Universe), in which the characters learned and grew. This wasn’t a first date, after all; it was a six-year marriage. You don’t just give up.



In the run-up to the finale, Lindelof posted to Twitter, expressing his love for the fans. But he also sent out a message directed at some online video artists I had never heard of: “But Fine Brothers? You shat on the show and that is not cool. I hereby revoke your status as ‘fans.’ ”Lindelof’s followers offered support, but there was also this: “I’m as big of a fan as you can be, and I think Fine Brothers couldn’t have put it better. A disappointed fan is still a fan.”



I spent the afternoon watching the Fine Brothers videos, of course. They were, as it turns out, hilarious: sharp, prickly satires “acted” out by action figures. In each one, characters from Heroes, Twilight, Battlestar Galactica, and other genre hits invaded the Lost universe to make rattled critiques. (In one, Spock simply started screaming, “I refuse to live in a place without logic!”) With their South Park–style brass, a few of the satires were more fun to watch than the Season 6 Lost episodes, many of which boil down in my memory to bathetic baseball monologues and such camp lines as “I don’t like the way English tastes on my tongue.”

To Lindelof, the Fine Brothers weren’t fans anymore. To me, their clear agitation and radical engagement with every element of the story meant that they were the most dedicated kind of fans: They cared enough to be pissed off. And who was to blame for that?






What made Lost fail? It’s possible Cuselof’s story was simply so Byzantine no one in the creative team could connect the dots, even with a two-year head start. It definitely didn’t help that the show shifted from a diverse cast to the repeated tableaux of white guys bickering about fate while the female characters were either shot or (worse) congealed into bland love interests. But to me, one central problem—which we had hints of early on, back when the show was still pulling off one masterful structural coup after another—was that the series had become obsessed, in both overt and unconscious ways, with manipulating its own relationship with its fans, alternately evading and reflecting their critiques, and then finally satisfying them in the most condescending possible way, with sentimental sleight-of-hand.



Built as it was from video-game aesthetics, comic-book plots, and science fiction, Lost had always included witty internal acknowledgments of its own geek appeal, including characters who acted as stand-ins for Lost fans. Hurley began the series as an actual character, but he quickly became our avatar: the sci-fi geek, full of Star Wars references, loyal and positive, like Cuselof’s ideal. In contrast, Arzt, the wicked fan, was a science teacher full of gripes, but he hilariously blew to bits in season one. Later, we got snarky Miles and Frank Lapidus, an outsider who made bemused remarks about the melodramas around him.



This was fun in the early seasons, when Darlton felt like they were in communion with their audience, but as the show began its final slide, these characters increasingly operated more as venting devices for fan frustrations—a way for the writers to let us know they heard us, but also to joke about logic problems or clichés instead of addressing them. The snarky chorus stood in contrast to the main ensemble, which, with a few exceptions, devolved from archetypal (but layered) characters into action figures, their aims narrowing, like video-game heroes, to a single goal: Find Sun, find Jin, find Claire, return to the island, get off the island.



Then, in the run-up to the final season, Cuselof suddenly inserted a shocking new framing device, a tactic that radically simplified their entire series: the twin dei ex machina of Jacob and the Man in Black. We’d gotten hints of Jacob’s existence earlier (who was that man in the cabin? Who??), but Cuselof’s reveal went beyond exposing the wizard. It redefined everything we’d watched as a game played by manipulative gods. Jacob smirked and wore Jesus robes. His brother, the Man in Black, was the evil Smoke Monster. While the pair were not named Cuse and Lindelof, it was hard to ignore the resemblance, since Lost’s characters—like its fans—had been revealed as the pawns of narrative overseers who spoke in riddles, were hard to trust, and continually reassured them to be patient, the end was near.



Within that endgame, Cuselof introduced the MacGuffin to end all MacGuffins: a glowing pool of embarrassing special effects, unexplainable because, as we learned in another meta line, “every question will just lead to another question.”



The peculiar thing about all this was that throughout its seasons, one of Lost’s most appealing ambiguities had been that, for all those debates about science versus faith, the show had never been in the camp of credulous trust. It was an island full of con men and women, after all, emotional seducers (from Sawyer to Ben to Nikki and Paolo) who fleeced those who believed in them. John Locke, the show’s Man of Faith and its most original character, was wrong again and again, and, in the end, died confused and despairing. His was an uncompromising plot within a show that increasingly pulled its punches, giving once-complex characters sacrificial and heroic outcomes. Jacob himself turned out to be in thrall to a lying, manipulative parent. On Lost, saying “trust me” was a red flag.



And yet, we had to trust Cuselof: That’s what a good fan does.



Then came the finale, which amounted to a moving, luminous, tear-inducing, near-total bait-and-switch.



Now, I realize many people enjoyed the finale. The episode was visually lyrical. It was audacious, in its way. It was almost radically crowd-pleasing, designed to be viewed with the fan brain, not the critic brain. With its witty structure, it allowed the creators to download fusillades of old clips: montages that in the literal sense stood in for each character’s memories, but which also worked as sentimental flashbacks for fans, reminding us of how much fun it had been to watch Lost itself. Meanwhile, on the island, we endured a series of thrilling but nonsensical unpluggings and then pluggings of a Freudian sinkhole. When the plot and the island stopped shaking, Hurley, the Good Fan, was handed the keys to the donkey wheel, as if he were being trusted to protect the legacy of the show itself.

I don’t have a heart of stone: The acting in the otherwise terrible finale was so good that in several cases (the reunion of Sawyer and Juliet) it made the endless romantic pairings desperately poignant instead of numbing. (Although not with Charlotte and Daniel: Lose the skinny tie, dude.)



But when those warm feelings wore off, it was hard to ignore the unsettling message we’d received, which was that nothing in the series had actually mattered. That mysterious island? The one we’d obsessed over for six years? We should remember it, as through a happy mist, as the place where our characters learned to love one another.



As for the Sideways Universe—featuring tweaked variations on each character’s story—that was also not important, at least not in any detail. It was a mystical way station, like weak fan fiction with a therapeutic kick. Most of the Sideways stories boiled the survivors’ stories down to morals like “Love your family” and “Believe you are a good person,” and if we wanted to enjoy the show, we needed to accept these truisms as closure for story arcs rather than Oprah-tinged parodies of them.



Finally, in the last fifteen minutes, the writers—in an emotionally powerful and also mawkishly manipulative turn—gathered our characters in an interfaith church, the antechamber to heaven. There Jack’s father, now a loving guide (rather than an abusive drunk), told him, and us, to let go. No wonder it was touching: It was grief therapy directed at us as fans.



The sad thing, really, is that this wave of nostalgia, however powerful it was in the moment, sunk the show it was meant to mourn. Once upon a time, Lost faced outward, toward the world. In its early seasons, it wasn’t just dumb, feel-good fun; for all the fantasy trappings, it had resonant, adult themes, ones set in the context of a global community traumatized after a plane crash. Post-9/11, the show spoke, for a while, more thoughtfully (or at least less angrily) than 24 to the moral questions that unsettled many Americans: Why does everyone consider themselves the “good guys”? Is it ever okay to torture? How do we choose, and should we trust, our leaders?



But by the end of its run, Lost, for all its dorm-room chatter about good and evil, had become something different: It was a hit series about the difficulties of finding an ending to a hit series. Cuselof had a deadline for years, which should have allowed them to pace out their puzzle’s solutions. Instead, we got cheesy temple vamping and a bereavement Holodeck. It became a show about placating, even sedating, fans, convincing them that, in the absence of anything coherent or challenging, love was enough.



The day after the finale, Lindelof tweeted again, in the soothing cadences of a preacher: “Remember. Let go. Move on.” Hey, Lindelof: Done.
 
Re: For bitter LOST fans...

Damon Lindelof Finally Understands Where Lost-Hating Fans Were Coming From
11/22/10

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"The most awesome part about being one of the primary storytellers of a popular television show is hearing how much its most loyal fans hate it," Lost creator Damon Lindelof wrote this weekend in the Daily Beast. For a long time, Lindelof confesses, he felt that people who constantly complained about Lost weren't actually fans, not really — and then he saw Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part 1. And despite his love of the series, he hated it (nothing happens, there's hardly any Snape, it should have been compressed into a half-hour, etc.). Time for a little bit of soul-searching!

As I staggered out into the parking lot, my brain was deftly trying to resolve a deep and complicated paradox: If I loved the book, and the movie was an incredibly loyal adaptation of that book ...

How could I possibly hate the movie? And even more distressing ...

Based on the careful emotional logic I'd been using to insulate myself from the slings and arrows of "Why didn't you people answer any goddamn questions?" and "A golden light in the middle of the island? SERIOUSLY?!?", if I hated the movie ...

Did that mean I was no longer a fan?


And yet, Lindelof realized, he was still a fan — he was just a fan who felt a little bit better if he took to the Internet to vent about the problems with the thing he really loved, deep down.

And so I sincerely and genuinely apologize to all those whom I have stripped of their Lost fandom just for complaining about the stuff you didn't like. It doesn't make you any less a fan. In fact ...

It just makes you honest.

I respect that. And I'm genuinely sorry for ever feeling otherwise.
 
Re: For bitter LOST fans...

I hope no one buys their series box set to teach them a lesson for that garbage unimaginative ending
 
Re: For bitter LOST fans...

I liked the ending. I advised a couple friends that wondered what all the hubbub was about to not watch any of the last season because I knew they were in wrap up mode but for me, I liked it. I'm curious about which questions weren't answered that needed answering to understand the finale.
I think they had to shift some things were Walt was concerned because he hit a growth spurt on them so that left stuff unresolved.
 
Re: For bitter LOST fans...

I liked the ending. I advised a couple friends that wondered what all the hubbub was about to not watch any of the last season because I knew they were in wrap up mode but for me, I liked it. I'm curious about which questions weren't answered that needed answering to understand the finale.
I think they had to shift some things were Walt was concerned because he hit a growth spurt on them so that left stuff unresolved.

Nothing had to be answered to understand that bullshit finale. I was all for leaving questions unanswered, but that ending didnt have shit to do with anything in the previous 5 seasons and had to be the biggest build up for nothing in Television history. :smh:
 
Two years after 'Lost,' EP Damon Lindelof has 'no regrets' about ending

Two years after 'Lost,' EP Damon Lindelof has 'no regrets' about ending

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:thefinger: this dude...

Are we still talking about Lost?! Well, executive producer Damon Lindelof still is. In a lengthy interview with The Verge, Lindelof addressed fan dissatisfaction with the supernatural saga’s polarizing ending in 2010. I’m not entirely sure whether fans are “still disappointed” about the ending, save for the grudge-holding few, but despite the untimeliness of the discussion, Lindelof provides some curious defenses to the interviewer’s extensive questioning about the show’s ending and legacy.

For one, he affirms that he has “no regrets” about the ending;
additionally, Lindelof admits that there was a “degree of improvisation” in the writers’ room during the first three seasons
, a confession that recalls criticism that the early days of Lost were aimlessly inquisitive (relevant: this SNL sketch).

If you’ve got the time, watch Lindelof compare the “new age-y” ending of Lost to Good Will Hunting below:

<script src="http://player.ooyala.com/player.js?height=250&embedCode=JzcTZxNDpDw95LfX4YwYQ_HSvsunTx48&video_pcode=ppbnY65tdYh_HxFfIkVstq2Iq_oQ&deepLinkEmbedCode=JzcTZxNDpDw95LfX4YwYQ_HSvsunTx48&width=510"></script>​

I am sick of this shit from fans...

the division between them...

we ALL love the show...

the whole REAL fans followed the characters weren't disappointed but FANS who followed the mythology and went online and researched shit didn't GET IT???

LOST rating were always good but never OUTSTANDING...

IT WAS THE ONLINE and RAPID FAN BASE that helped create that success...
 
Re: Two years after 'Lost,' EP Damon Lindelof has 'no regrets' about ending

Lost was the best show on TV. I remember when it went to commercial i felt like i was snapping out of a trance. People will never be satisfied with any ending. I think they explained enough for me personally to be satisfied, and the rest should just be left to your own conclusions.
 
Re: Two years after 'Lost,' EP Damon Lindelof has 'no regrets' about ending

He's a fucking idiot.. They destroyed a great show with that bullshit last season..
 
Re: Two years after 'Lost,' EP Damon Lindelof has 'no regrets' about ending

I loved the LOST ending....then again I loved the way The Sopranos ended too.
 
Re: Two years after 'Lost,' EP Damon Lindelof has 'no regrets' about ending

Lost was the best show on TV. I remember when it went to commercial i felt like i was snapping out of a trance. People will never be satisfied with any ending. I think they explained enough for me personally to be satisfied, and the rest should just be left to your own conclusions.

Its not THAT...

it the fact that ALL the clues and hints and mysteries were complete and utter bullshit...

hundreds of people said after the FIRST episode that they were dead and they LIED and said no...

DUDE just ADMITTED they BULL SHITTTED the first THREE SEASONS...

:cmonson:
 
Re: Two years after 'Lost,' EP Damon Lindelof has 'no regrets' about ending

Its not THAT...

it the fact that ALL the clues and hints and mysteries were complete and utter bullshit...

hundreds of people said after the FIRST episode that they were dead and they LIED and said no...

DUDE just ADMITTED they BULL SHITTTED the first THREE SEASONS...

:cmonson:

I think what is confusing people and maybe you is that only in the last season was the "flashbacks" them in Purgatory. Everything did happen, they did not die in the plane crash. No one but Jack died on the last episode. Everyone else died in their own time.
 
Re: Two years after 'Lost,' EP Damon Lindelof has 'no regrets' about ending

I loved the LOST ending....then again I loved the way The Sopranos ended too.

that's fair...

i completely disagree but i understand.

My issue is with pretentious assholes (not you)

talking like that shit was so deep and philosophical and then when challenged for the exact meaning

have no concrete response and get all pseudo intellectual and vague...

they were dead and it was purgatory ...

I GET IT..

but that TOTALLY CONTRADICTED HOURS AND HOURS OF STORY!!!:angry:

and Sopranos well here's the thing they didn't EARN the right for that kind of ending...

nothing in the years previous gave any indication that this was some existentialist treatise on the meaning of life...

that dud e Chase tried HARD to do that shit and shoe horn deeper meaning and if you looked back teach time he failed miserably and alienated the fan base...

subscribers weren't watching for that shit...

the ducks...

diarrhea from bad Indian food giving him access to a higher consciousness:rolleyes:

shitting on therapy and psychiatry...

unexplained and abandoned story lines...

episodes where absolutely NOTHING happened...

even former writers admitted that shit was made up and filler on occasion...

my favorite episode was Pine Barrens and even I had to call bullshit when questioned to much about it...

that is why The Wire was better...

it was a complete comprehensive sprawling visual and aural novel that every word action song and set piece were parts of an elaborate tableau...

dammit DEADWOOD was its incomplete run could argue was a better STORY then Sopranos..

and even still Sopranos revolutionized TV and Gandolfini is a genius and I loved the series and it was wonderfully acted and should have only been 4 years tops with a real ending and a big screen movie...

end rant:itsawrap:
 
Re: Two years after 'Lost,' EP Damon Lindelof has 'no regrets' about ending

^^^.....but Sporanos had a real ending....Tony was killed.
 
Re: Two years after 'Lost,' EP Damon Lindelof has 'no regrets' about ending

I think what is confusing people and maybe you is that only in the last season was the "flashbacks" them in Purgatory. Everything did happen, they did not die in the plane crash. No one but Jack died on the last episode. Everyone else died in their own time.

no i get that.

but obviously (dont let those DVD extras confuse you)

nothing happened...

Jack getting closure OK

it had no bearing on the earth, space/time...

the conspiracy, the numbers, etc.

nothing mattered...

because they were dead...

like most people predicted in the first season.

You saw the final "eye" shot was a complete re-creation right...?

So what were we watching for?
 
Re: Two years after 'Lost,' EP Damon Lindelof has 'no regrets' about ending

that's fair...



they were dead and it was purgatory ...

Your were not paying enough attention to the show if you think it was 7seasons of purgatory. Or even watched the 24 min interview you posted.
 
Re: Two years after 'Lost,' EP Damon Lindelof has 'no regrets' about ending

Your were not paying enough attention to the show if you think it was 7seasons of purgatory. Or even watched the 24 min interview you posted.

you KNOW what I mean...

the point is he was defiant then when the backlash got BIG he relented and apologized and for some reason he came out now saying he good with it BUT admitted he bullshitted the first couple of seasons...

I'll go in more specifics about the ENDING itself later but I am addressing more the sentiment of the fan base and how they pretty much screwed the entire GENRE of TV over cause of that wack ass ending...

and I will find the clip when they said in the first season that NONE OF THE INHABITANTS WERE DEAD....
 
Re: Two years after 'Lost,' EP Damon Lindelof has 'no regrets' about ending

Im not understanding where we are divided is on this. They crashed on the island. No one died that day. The went through all that bullshit with Jacob and Esu. On the Last episode. Sawyer, Kate, and Richard got off the island where Jack, Hurley and Ben stayed. Jack died that day. Hurley became the new Jacob. Sawyer proly fucked Kate for 40years then had a heart attack that and died. (just making a point) They all died separately living long lives. As explained in the last episode. They were in purgatory so they can meet each other again before going to the after life.
 
Re: Two years after 'Lost,' EP Damon Lindelof has 'no regrets' about ending

That's just YOUR interpretation of it..

The show was told through Tony's eyes. There was foreboding in previous episodes where Bobby and Tony sit in a boat discussing their thoughts on what happens when you die. Bobby mentioned that perhaps everything goes black. Plus all the characters that were in the diner from the series past. Tony's dead. You don't see your own death coming, which is why the screen went black.
 
Re: Two years after 'Lost,' EP Damon Lindelof has 'no regrets' about ending

The show was told through Tony's eyes. There was foreboding in previous episodes where Bobby and Tony sit in a boat discussing their thoughts on what happens when you die. Bobby mentioned that perhaps everything goes black. Plus all the characters that were in the diner from the series past. Tony's dead. You don't see your own death coming, which is why the screen went black.

That's your interpretation. I really don't think the writers thought deep about it. They did it to get people talking and it worked..
 
Re: Two years after 'Lost,' EP Damon Lindelof has 'no regrets' about ending

He's a fucking idiot.. They destroyed a great show with that bullshit last season..

truth, and to OP calm down nobody is tripping on it like that, and to whoever said the ratings were ok is kinda stupid this was the top watched show on TV
 
For all those who DEFENDED the ending of LOST...

* I told ya'll that ending was complete and utter bullshit:smh:

Leaked Lost Document Reveals They Had No Plan for an Ending

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Does it make you feel any better than the creators of Lost never had any intention of telling you what the hell was up with that random polar bear?

Probably not: "No — we're not gonna tell where that polar bear came from, but we're all about answering the rest." The rest? Really? A recently leaked document from the show's beginnings reveals an entire structured layout for the show's start, middle and end. According to Damon Lindelof, the document is actually what the network wanted, and what they struggled against. /Film explains, having spoken to Lost's creator about it all: "This document outlines the version of Lost the network wanted, but one that Lindelof and J.J. Abrams didn’t." Basically: "ABC picked up the show, which never would have happened without this document. However, once those writers got to writing the actual series, many of these ideas got thrown away."
But, wait! What about the polar bear? Obviously a few of these outlined details did make the final cut, and it's fascinating to see what ABC imagined their golden child Lost was going to be:

True to our commitment to provide rational, real-world explanations for the seemingly bizarre, our castaways will make a series of discoveries in the first few episodes that indicate the "monster" may indeed have man-made origins which offers a variety of possible explanations illuminating its true nature. Perhaps the result of the experiments performed by the island's past inhabitants or simply a small part within an elaborate security system designed to protect yet undiscovered facilities, the beast is almost as scary when it's NOT there.

***

Our idea is to build a jungle inside a soundstage. And in this patch of jungle, our characters will begin to build their own "mini" sets. Call it a primitive "Melrose Place."

***​

Our mandate is to give LOST the same treatment as a Michael Crichton novel. Every time we introduce an element of the fantastic, we approach it from a real place. If we do it right, the "paranormal" will always be coupled with a logical explanation to remind the audience that this is the real world.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8WGamNXh2iwOWx0UDNRQkl5VTA/view?pli=1&sle=true

http://www.slashfilm.com/leaked-los...ent-vision-of-the-show-for-a-devious-purpose/
 
Re: For all those who DEFENDED the ending of LOST...

damn! i had a feeling those cats were just bullshittin all along :smh:
the show was full of suspense tho...
 
Re: For all those who DEFENDED the ending of LOST...

I see where they were TRYING to go, but Abrams, Lindelof, and Lieber are three completely different creative minds (with really big egos). There was no way that they were gonna be able to keep that shit together, especially with all the other side projects they were taking...

Eventually the writers just took over, since the creators decided that they wanted a bigger piece of Hollywood, and they couldn't stay grounded to this project.

Lost was actually supposed to be a really big vehicle that tied into a lot of movies (Cloverfield, for one). They just got bored with it, basically.
 
Re: For all those who DEFENDED the ending of LOST...

LOL,

glad I followed my spirit and never watched passed the first two episodes..

nice confirmation...
 
Re: For all those who DEFENDED the ending of LOST...

I haven't read the document yet, but fuck what you heard, LOST was still a good ass show. Real fans of the show knew they made up the ending on the fly, and honestly,i had no complaints with the way it ended.
 
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