Thriving Norway Provides an Economics Lesson

thoughtone

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I'm not saying we as Americans should be like Norway, but let’s look at their successes.

source: New York Times

OSLO — When capitalism seemed on the verge of collapse last fall, Kristin Halvorsen, Norway’s Socialist finance minister and a longtime free market skeptic, did more than crow.

As investors the world over sold in a panic, she bucked the tide, authorizing Norway’s $300 billion sovereign wealth fund to ramp up its stock buying program by $60 billion — or about 23 percent of Norway ’s economic output.

“The timing was not that bad,” Ms. Halvorsen said, smiling with satisfaction over the broad worldwide market rally that began in early March.

The global financial crisis has brought low the economies of just about every country on earth. But not Norway.

With a quirky contrariness as deeply etched in the national character as the fjords carved into its rugged landscape, Norway has thrived by going its own way. When others splurged, it saved. When others sought to limit the role of government, Norway strengthened its cradle-to-grave welfare state.

And in the midst of the worst global downturn since the Depression, Norway’s economy grew last year by just under 3 percent. The government enjoys a budget surplus of 11 percent and its ledger is entirely free of debt.

By comparison, the United States is expected to chalk up a fiscal deficit this year equal to 12.9 percent of its gross domestic product and push its total debt to $11 trillion, or 65 percent of the size of its economy.

Norway is a relatively small country with a largely homogeneous population of 4.6 million and the advantages of being a major oil exporter. It counted $68 billion in oil revenue last year as prices soared to record levels. Even though prices have sharply declined, the government is not particularly worried. That is because Norway avoided the usual trap that plagues many energy-rich countries.

Instead of spending its riches lavishly, it passed legislation ensuring that oil revenue went straight into its sovereign wealth fund, state money that is used to make investments around the world. Now its sovereign wealth fund is close to being the largest in the world, despite losing 23 percent last year because of investments that declined.

Norway’s relative frugality stands in stark contrast to Britain, which spent most of its North Sea oil revenue — and more — during the boom years. Government spending rose to 47 percent of G.D.P., from 42 percent in 2003. By comparison, public spending in Norway fell to 40 percent from 48 percent of G.D.P.

“The U.S. and the U.K. have no sense of guilt,” said Anders Aslund, an expert on Scandinavia at the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington. “But in Norway, there is instead a sense of virtue. If you are given a lot, you have a responsibility.”

Eirik Wekre, an economist who writes thrillers in his spare time, describes Norwegians’ feelings about debt this way: “We cannot spend this money now; it would be stealing from future generations.”

Mr. Wekre, who paid for his house and car with cash, attributes this broad consensus to as the country’s iconoclasm. “The strongest man is he who stands alone in the world,” he said, quoting Norwegian playwright Henrik Ibsen.

Still, even Ibsen might concede that it is easier to stand alone when your nation has benefited from oil reserves that make it the third-largest exporter in the world. The money flowing from that black gold since the early 1970s has prompted even the flintiest of Norwegians to relax and enjoy their good fortune. The country’s G.D.P. per person is $52,000, behind only Luxembourg among industrial democracies.

As in much of the rest of the world home prices have soared here, tripling this decade. But there has been no real estate crash in Norway because there were few mortgage lending excesses. After a 15 percent correction, prices are again on the rise.

Unlike Dublin or Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, where work has stopped on half-built skyscrapers and stilled cranes dot the skylines, Oslo retains a feeling of modesty reminiscent of a fishing village rather than a Western capital, with the recently opened $800 million Opera House one of the few signs of opulence.

Norwegian banks, said Arne J. Isachsen, an economist at the Norwegian School of Management, remain largely healthy and prudent in their lending. Banks represent just 2 percent of the economy and tight public oversight over their lending practices have kept Norwegian banks from taking on the risk that brought down their Icelandic counterparts. But they certainly have not closed their doors to borrowers. Mr. Isachsen, like many in Norway, has a second home and an open credit line from his bank, which he recently used to buy a new boat.

Some here worry that while a cabin in the woods and a boat may not approach the excesses seen in New York or London, oil wealth and the state largesse have corrupted Norway’s once-sturdy work ethic.

“This is an oil-for-leisure program,” said Knut Anton Mork, an economist at Handelsbanken in Oslo. A recent study, he pointed out, found that Norwegians work the fewest hours of the citizens of any industrial democracy.

“We have become complacent,” Mr. Mork added. “More and more vacation houses are being built. We have more holidays than most countries and extremely generous benefits and sick leave policies. Some day the dream will end.”

But that day is far off. For now, the air is clear, work is plentiful and the government’s helping hand is omnipresent — even for those on the margins.

Just around the corner from Norway’s central bank, for instance, Paul Bruum takes a needle full of amphetamines and jabs it into his muscular arm. His scabs and sores betray many years as a heroin addict. He says that the $1,500 he gets from the government each month is enough to keep him well-fed and supplied with drugs.

Mr. Bruum, 32, says he has never had a job, and he admits he is no position to find one. “I don’t blame anyone,” he said. “The Norwegian government has provided for me the best they can.”

To Ms. Halvorsen, the finance minister, even the underside of the Norwegian dream looks pretty good compared to the economic nightmares elsewhere.

“As a socialist, I have always said that the market can’t regulate itself,” she said. “But even I was surprised how strong the failure was.”
 
This is almost all you need to see...

Norway is a relatively small country with a largely homogeneous population of 4.6 million and the advantages of being a major oil exporter.

Saudi Arabia of the north.
 
This is almost all you need to see...

Norway is a relatively small country with a largely homogeneous population of 4.6 million and the advantages of being a major oil exporter.

Saudi Arabia of the north.

Did you read the analogy between Great Britain and Norway? They didn't piss their savings up on privatization. Norway has always had more industry than Saudi Arabia. Open up your mind. There is more than one way to solve problems. I am always amazed at how Black folk are more immersed in and willing to defend the status quo more than many whites, especially since that status quo was used to label us, Black people as nothing more than property. Look at what we are doing wrong and find out how it can be done better.
 
Did you read the analogy between Great Britain and Norway? They didn't piss their savings up on privatization. Norway has always had more industry than Saudi Arabia.

My point is they have VAST natural wealth compared to the size of their population.

Britain is like 15 times bigger!

To me, this is just another white-boy dick sucking contest to talk about how great the honkey is when it is entirely circumstantial.

There are plenty of African nations with vast natural wealth, so why aren't they reaping the benefits? And why is no one questioning why these honkeys are stealing their wealth. But they sure are quick to make African nations look bad, destabilize their societies, and sell them weapons.

Open up your mind. There is more than one way to solve problems. I am always amazed at how Black folk are more immersed in and willing to defend the status quo more than many whites, especially since that status quo was used to label us, Black people as nothing more than property. Look at what we are doing wrong and find out how it can be done better.

:confused:
 
Thought I have a couple of questions.

1. When was the last war Norway HAD to fight *an actual war, not a civil unrest type war*?

2. Would you move to NORWAY right now? *don't make an excuse about "I don't have the money to do so right now....*

3. If the powers of the western world fall right now, how long would Norway last?

4. Would you say that Norway's leadership is better than Obama's?

5. How can you put your faith in a system that has been proven to be flawed WAY more than a semi-free market system?
 
My point is they have VAST natural wealth compared to the size of their population.

Britain is like 15 times bigger!

To me, this is just another white-boy dick sucking contest to talk about how great the honkey is when it is entirely circumstantial.

There are plenty of African nations with vast natural wealth, so why aren't they reaping the benefits? And why is no one questioning why these honkeys are stealing their wealth. But they sure are quick to make African nations look bad, destabilize their societies, and sell them weapons.



:confused:

You tell me. Whites could not do their dirt in Africa with out the cooperation of at least a few Black folk. Face it, not all brothers are brothers. Selfish free will has something to do with the exploitation of Black on Black crimes. Like Dope dealers in our communities, we can't blame the white man for making us smoke the weed. In a sad example of the economy I was trying to illustrate. End the demand and their will be no need to worry about the drug problem. But that is totally unrelated to the thread. The parasitic, unregulated capitalistic attitude has come home to roost in the United States. Face it, the Reagan economic model was a failure and reality substantiates it. If we really want to solve the problems, all aspects of solutions must me examined. Doing the same things expecting different results is the definition of insanity.
 
You tell me. Whites could not do their dirt in Africa with out the cooperation of at least a few Black folk. Face it, not all brothers are brothers. Selfish free will has something to do with the exploitation of Black on Black crimes. Like Dope dealers in our communities, we can't blame the white man for making us smoke the weed. In a sad example of the economy I was trying to illustrate. End the demand and their will be no need to worry about the drug problem. But that is totally unrelated to the thread.

There will always be a sellout in every society.

All the whites have to do in any non-white country is find ONE person who they can buy. That ONE person can proceed to destroy a neighborhood, a community, a society, and a country. It is a tactic they've used all over Africa and the world.

Honkeys are some devious MFers, but I respect their strategies.

Since Norway is a WHITE country, they don't have to worry about meddling from other WHITE countries.

For every WHITE country (e.g. Russia) that tries to exploit them, some other WHITE country comes to protect them (UK, France, US, etc.).

Non-whites don't have any such protection in any country from WHITE meddling.

The parasitic, unregulated capitalistic attitude has come home to roost in the United States. Face it, the Reagan economic model was a failure and reality substantiates it. If we really want to solve the problems, all aspects of solutions must me examined. Doing the same things expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

You're preaching to the choir here.
 
What is the significance of the questions ???

That is, why are the questions significant ???

QueEx

Its significant because he is saying that we should learn from Norway. The same Norway that got ran over by Germany. My point is, Norway needs UK/US to have a strong military so they can stay financially stable. People tend to forget that Norway has a lot of natural resources some countries might want.
 
Oh, Okay. Having a strong military is synonymous with making good social policy.

QueEx
 
Oh, Okay. Having a strong military is synonymous with making good social policy.

QueEx

hitler_05.jpg


"I CO-SIGN"

:lol:
 
Instead of spending its riches lavishly, it passed legislation ensuring that oil revenue went straight into its sovereign wealth fund, state money that is used to make investments around the world. Now its sovereign wealth fund is close to being the largest in the world, despite losing 23 percent last year because of investments that declined.

This is what we should be doing. These are conservative principles. Sound spending, investing for the future. Are you turning over a new leaf? " bless you my child "
 
Instead of spending its riches lavishly, it passed legislation ensuring that oil revenue went straight into its sovereign wealth fund, state money that is used to make investments around the world. Now its sovereign wealth fund is close to being the largest in the world, despite losing 23 percent last year because of investments that declined.

This is what we should be doing. These are conservative principles. Sound spending, investing for the future. Are you turning over a new leaf? " bless you my child "

:lol:
Good to see you coming around to my side!
 
:lol:
Good to see you coming around to my side!


I take it you misunderstood my post? Sound spending, investing for the future are conservative principles. Obama is not following this road map. As AA mentioned, If we sneeze they will catch a cold. Didn't you guys argue during the presidential election that Sarah Palin was a governor of a low populated state and that those numbers alone were not an indicator of her being able to run the U.S.. So should we compare Norway to the US? Just a "Thought"
 
I take it you misunderstood my post? Sound spending, investing for the future are conservative principles. Obama is not following this road map. As AA mentioned, If we sneeze they will catch a cold. Didn't you guys argue during the presidential election that Sarah Palin was a governor of a low populated state and that those numbers alone were not an indicator of her being able to run the U.S.. So should we compare Norway to the US? Just a "Thought"

We are coughing and sneezing at the moment, they are healthier than we are.
So you opposed Palin and McSame? Norway's banks are sound and highly regulated. Conservative?

"When others sought to limit the role of government, Norway strengthened its cradle-to-grave welfare state."

Sound spending, investing for the future are conservative principles

Since when, conservatives are opposed to all spending except military. You make up definitions to suit your arguments.
 
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After reading the OP, Norway appears to have "conservative" credentials. They export a commodity that is needed by the world, they invested the money into a sovereign wealth fund, they decreased public spending, no debt, no lending excess in real estate. Here's the kicker, the dopefiend at the end doesn't blame the govt but shows appreciation for what the govt has provided!

Could the citizens of the US be dealing with an "entitlement" mindset?
 
When the last war Norway has won AGAINST ANOTHER COUNTRY?

Don't worry....I'll wait for the answer...

Norway became a country in 1905, PEACEFULLY separating from Sweden. When the Nazis invaded Norway the resistance fought back with the Allies, the way we (US) fought back against Japan with China's help during the Pacific campaign. During the Cold War, the Norwegians were instrumental in supplying the US with crucial surveillance information of the Soviet Navy. During the so called War on Terror, Norway offered troops and support when the US asked, as stated in the NATO charter. When your population is content, you don't have to be war mongering nation like the American conservatives want the US to be.
 
Norway became a country in 1905, PEACEFULLY separating from Sweden. When the Nazis invaded Norway the resistance fought back with the Allies, the way we (US) fought back against Japan with China's help during the Pacific campaign. During the Cold War, the Norwegians were instrumental in supplying the US with crucial surveillance information of the Soviet Navy. During the so called War on Terror, Norway offered troops and support when the US asked, as stated in the NATO charter. When your population is content, you don't have to be war mongering nation like the American conservatives want the US to be.

You forgot that we protected them FROM the Soviets also.

My point is this, if not for big United States, and United Kingdom, Norway would be a Soviet bloc country as we speak.

BTW, you talk about conservatives being a "war mongers". However, if it wasn't for lackadaisical attitude during the 90's, we might be a different country altogether. I find it funny when its time to show some nuts, liberals define that as "war mongering". Very classy....
 
You forgot that we protected them FROM the Soviets also.

My point is this, if not for big United States, and United Kingdom, Norway would be a Soviet bloc country as we speak.

BTW, you talk about conservatives being a "war mongers". However, if it wasn't for lackadaisical attitude during the 90's, we might be a different country altogether. I find it funny when its time to show some nuts, liberals define that as "war mongering". Very classy....

They border Russia, they are in partnership like Canada borders Russia in partnership with the US. Very few US troops are station in Norway. They have a very capable military. Sweden's SAAB is one of the world's leading military aircraft manufacturers, they can get their weapons from them, damn good ones too! I know Texas teaches little of the world's history other than what the right want their school students to know but the world is bigger than the Lone Star State.
 
you do know that many of our wars did not start with a conservative president right?

I didn’t say wars started with conservative Presidents, I said conservatives use war or the fear of war as a means of authority over the country. Changing the subject once again.
 
They border Russia, they are in partnership like Canada borders Russia in partnership with the US. Very few US troops are station in Norway. They have a very capable military. Sweden's SAAB is one of the world's leading military aircraft manufacturers, they can get their weapons from them, damn good ones too! I know Texas teaches little of the world's history other than what the right want their school students to know but the world is bigger than the Lone Star State.

1. we do not have to have troops there to protect them.

2. I know SAAB is ONE of the biggest, however, I do know that Lockheed is the best. Wanna debate that????

3. You think I only get my thoughts from Texas schools? Now, I got on Gunner for assuming that you were jobless. Don't ASSume that I only have a public school education...

I didn’t say wars started with conservative Presidents, I said conservatives use war or the fear of war as a means of authority over the country. Changing the subject once again.

1. Oh, the subject never changed. I was just pointing that FACT out. WE can now go back to why we can't be Norway....
 
So its agreed, national health care like "conservative":lol: Norway.:yes:

not exactly, "Conservative approach to spending" like Norway! Maybe, then we could entertain healthcare reform or maybe, we can get the govt "out of the mix" and re-establish the doctor/patient relationship
 
not exactly, "Conservative approach to spending" like Norway! Maybe, then we could entertain healthcare reform or maybe, we can get the govt "out of the mix" and re-establish the doctor/patient relationship

Who got the doctor/patient relationship "out of the mix" in the first place. I will give you a hint, it wasn't the governemnt.
 
Lamarr, are going to at least answer? Normally when I post a response to you, you are "lickity split" for an answer. So what gives?

I asked you "who came between the doc & the patient"? I have my beliefs but I'm interested in your view. Enlighten me
 
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