THE WRESTLING THREAD: HHH KEEPS DOING HHH THINGS.....

[Upgrade Dave]

Man, I spent all last weekend watching old ECW matches
I'll admit, I was not a big ECW fan back in the day (I swear I couldn't find it on my TV) but that shit was classic.
I'm about to watch some more this weekend with the bloodiest ECW matches of all time DVD
Speaking of Jerry Lawler. What the fuck has happened to this guy?
He sounds like he's on medication or something nowadays
Compare that to the Jerry Lawler from back in the day and it's like night and day
He probably can't say half the shit he really wants to say though
He should just go back to being a heel announcer

He should but Cole's the heel now and Lawler is really going through the motions and has been for years.
He's never really been that good but he used to be entertaining most of the time but even before Jim Ross was moved to Smackdown, Lawler hasn't been carrying his weight.

 

[XXXplosive]

He should but Cole's the heel now and Lawler is really going through the motions and has been for years.
He's never really been that good but he used to be entertaining most of the time but even before Jim Ross was moved to Smackdown, Lawler hasn't been carrying his weight.

Even Cole has toned it down as of late
If he's going to be a heel, he needs to just go all out, but I don't think management wants that
I read somewhere that management felt he was burying the talent too much, so he was asked to tone it down.
So now on Raw, we've got Lawler who just seems to mumble throughout the whole show and a half-assed heel in Cole

 

[ScottyPiffen745]

Man, I spent all last weekend watching old ECW matches
I'll admit, I was not a big ECW fan back in the day (I swear I couldn't find it on my TV) but that shit was classic.
I'm about to watch some more this weekend with the bloodiest ECW matches of all time DVD
Speaking of Jerry Lawler. What the fuck has happened to this guy?
He sounds like he's on medication or something nowadays
Compare that to the Jerry Lawler from back in the day and it's like night and day
He probably can't say half the shit he really wants to say though
He should just go back to being a heel announcer

I noticed that a couple weeks ago when I saw a clip from the Attitude era and it took that for me to see that King has totally regressed as a commentator, not just because he's a face guy now and he was heel guy then, but his energy and delivery.

Probably because of the PG rating.

 

[NightMare Paint]

I blame the PG. era and the overall attempt to homogenize the product into a t shirt selling business. King used to call people fags and everything back in the day

 

[Multi - Personality]

y'know....i like this angle



I'm also like these storylines better than WWE's (except the AJ angle of course)

 

[dirtyd]

I blame the PG. era and the overall attempt to homogenize the product into a t shirt selling business. King used to call people fags and everything back in the day

Wrestling sucks now(well wwe does)and it's so easy to fix.

 

[XXXplosive]

Wrestling sucks now(well wwe does)and it's so easy to fix.

Seriously.
I'm close to just stop watching wrestling all together and just watch all my old collection from now on.
I've got every WWF/WWE major PPV (Wrestlemania, Survivor Series, Summerslam, Royal Rumble) up until around 2005.
Also got a bunch of ECW stuff and different documentary-type DVDs

 

[Rollie_Fingaz]

Some racist pricks hacked Booker T's twitter page this weekend:

Booker T's Twitter and Website Hacked by Racist Group
Posted by Jeremy Thomas on 06.29.2012

Several hate-speech messages posted…

- Booker T's Twitter account and website were hacked today by a racist group believed to have an affiliation with the Ku Klux Klan. The group posted Booker's emails and the addresses and phone numbers of his wife Sharmel on his website, along with the following message:

Just Jacked the sh*t out of this f*cking *** who goes by the name "Booker Huffman", we also took the extra time to f*ck his m****y wife over. Booker is known for being a "Professional", yet fake WWE wrestler.

The group also posted several racist messages to his Twitter and redirected the URL for his website RealityOfWrestling.com site to a KKK site.

It's been taken down.

 

[c_commander]

^^^They can talk shit all they want but for their sake they don't want to see Booker face to face especially when they disrespected his wife in the process. They can ask Batista about what Booker can do.

 

[XXXplosive]

^^^^^
I saw that story yesterday
I've met Booker T in person a few times around town and he would beat the living shit outta these cacs in like 2 seconds
These faggots probably look like Joe Dirt

 

[xspade7]

Honestly everyone knows pro wrestling died in 2001. With ECW folding and when Vince purchased WCW. Every veteran and upcoming pro wrestler knew shit got real. You had several wrestlers commit suicide trying to fit the WWE mode.

Sure TNA and ROH started the same year and celebrating 10 years but with all the booking changes in the various promotions. Some faithful fans has been turned off by the product altogether.

90% of todays indy wrestlers has day jobs and use wrestling to gain some kind of major interest in hoping to try to make it to the next level. Looking at WWE whole roster they have about the same number of wrestlers on there payroll like WCW had during 97-99.

I can't comment much on Japan or Mexico but it seem like there main promotions are striving. Just last night All Japan and New Japan had a combined supercard.

To sum up all this pro wrestling will never return to the regional style of the past due to the death of kayfabe and the lack of promoters working together (ex. NWA of the 70's-mid 80's). But pro wrestling can be popular again with the right booking team and longevity of storylines.

 

[Heavenlywings77]

^^^They can talk shit all they want but for their sake they don't want to see Booker face to face especially when they disrespected his wife in the process. They can ask Batista about what Booker can do.

What happened with that??

 

[c_commander]

What happened with that??

During the filming of a commercial for a Summerslam event Booker T and Batista got into a disagreement that turned physical and Batista got his ass whooped.

 

[Heavenlywings77]

During the filming of a commercial for a Summerslam event Booker T and Batista got into a disagreement that turned physical and Batista got his ass whooped.

Daaaaaaaaaaaayum

 

[Rollie_Fingaz]

During the filming of a commercial for a Summerslam event Booker T and Batista got into a disagreement that turned physical and Batista got his ass whooped.

Batista walked into the locker room and acted like he was better than everyone else because he was cool with HHH. Booker T pulled him to the side and spoke to him on it and it turned into a fight. Most witnesses agree that Booker beat the shit out of Batista.

 

[Rollie_Fingaz]

..speaking on backstage fights:

Details Of Backstage Fight Between New Jack and Balls Mahoney at Extreme Rising
Posted by Jeremy Thomas on 07.02.2012

What went down and why?

- As previously reported, there was a brief fight backstage between New Jack and Balls Mahoney at Extreme Rising. There had been legit heat between the two for a few months and while the exact reason for it beginning is unsure, a large bit of it was that Balls was upset over comments made about him by New Jack. Both men made it clear before the first Extreme Reunion show in April that if they saw each other, there would be an issue. The ended up having an argument on that show and got in each other's faces, but they were held apart by Atlas Security and nothing got physical.

Then, the week before Extreme Rising, Balls Mahoney used the N-bomb in reference to New Jack in an interview for a DVD release. The word was said to be repeated several times. When New Jack found out, he made it clear again that when he saw Balls, there was going to be an issue.

An hour before the show began, Mahoney arrived backstage and went into a room being used to dress in. New Jack was telling stories in the room to other guys and when Balls walked in, everyone went silent. Balls was shaking hands when New Jack attacked him, hitting him ten to fifteen times with hard shots. Balls went into a protective stance but didn't go down and didn't fight back. Some people there said that Balls took punches that would have knocked other people out. Jack grabbed a machete but Atlas Security had shown up by then and pulled the two apart.

Balls said that he had been given permission to use the word in the interview. He was busted open and swelling in his face and was placed in a room that was doubling as the company's official office to dress. He dressed and remained there for the rest of the night.

The belief was that the issue had been settled at this point.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Even Cole has toned it down as of late
If he's going to be a heel, he needs to just go all out, but I don't think management wants that
I read somewhere that management felt he was burying the talent too much, so he was asked to tone it down.So now on Raw, we've got Lawler who just seems to mumble throughout the whole show and a half-assed heel in Cole

That's it exactly.

y'know....i like this angle



I'm also like these storylines better than WWE's (except the AJ angle of course)

The Joey Ryan angle is red hot. It looks like a shoot but it obviously isn't because no wrestler would ruin his career with these kinds of tactics. It reminds me of ECW invading WWF back in the day.

I don't mind the AJ/Dixie angle so much since for once Kazarian is in a pushed position. It's not the first over the top/soap opera angle in wrestling history and it won't be the last.

Honestly everyone knows pro wrestling died in 2001. With ECW folding and when Vince purchased WCW. Every veteran and upcoming pro wrestler knew shit got real. You had several wrestlers commit suicide trying to fit the WWE mode.

Sure TNA and ROH started the same year and celebrating 10 years but with all the booking changes in the various promotions. Some faithful fans has been turned off by the product altogether.

90% of todays indy wrestlers has day jobs and use wrestling to gain some kind of major interest in hoping to try to make it to the next level. Looking at WWE whole roster they have about the same number of wrestlers on there payroll like WCW had during 97-99.

I can't comment much on Japan or Mexico but it seem like there main promotions are striving. Just last night All Japan and New Japan had a combined supercard.

To sum up all this pro wrestling will never return to the regional style of the past due to the death of kayfabe and the lack of promoters working together (ex. NWA of the 70's-mid 80's). But pro wrestling can be popular again with the right booking team and longevity of storylines.

You know what? I don't know that or believe it. Wrestling has undergone a major change and not for the better with only one true major company all these years but there's still good wrestling and good storylines, even in WWE. When they want to do something good, they can nail it. When they want to make a new star, they can do it. The problem is they don't seem to want to very often.

Mexico is doing pretty good but Japan is too but neither is doing the kinds of numbers they used to do. They're hurting some too. The days of 70k people at a New Japan show are gone for now.



Details Of Backstage Fight Between New Jack and Balls Mahoney at Extreme Rising
Posted by Jeremy Thomas on 07.02.2012

What went down and why?


Then, the week before Extreme Rising, Balls Mahoney used the N-bomb in reference to New Jack in an interview for a DVD release. The word was said to be repeated several times. When New Jack found out, he made it clear again that when he saw Balls, there was going to be an issue.



You gotta love New Jack. Backs up what he says. No studio gangster in him.
Jack made reference to this in his first promo for the first Extreme Reunion show without calling Balls by name.

 

[kanedagame]

Seriously.
I'm close to just stop watching wrestling all together and just watch all my old collection from now on.
I've got every WWF/WWE major PPV (Wrestlemania, Survivor Series, Summerslam, Royal Rumble) up until around 2005.
Also got a bunch of ECW stuff and different documentary-type DVDs

I've already done that. I just watch the dvds. I hate that it's come to this bc I was a big fan and now WWE sux ass.

 

[kanedagame]

New Jack & Balls Mahoney reportedly got in a fight backstage at the Extreme Rising show in Philadelphia over the weekend. As you would expect with these two, an interesting story is involved. I'm going to use an excerpt from WrestleZone here because I love how the writer explains the insider wrestling terms to those of us that might not have heard them before:

New Jack says the bad blood between him and Mahoney began last year after one of Frank Goodman's UXW events. Mahoney had taken a "ring rat" (term used for a girl or woman frequenting a wrestling event in attempt to sleep with the crew or wrestlers) back to the hotel after the matches and "gigged" her and himself (a term used when wrestlers intentionally cut themselves, typically with a razor, to provoke bleeding). The two reportedly used the blood in graphic, sexual manners and proceeded by vandalizing the hotel room, writing their names in blood on the walls, and leaving blood smeared on nearly everything.

So now we know that Balls Mahoney gets off on cutting himself & other people. I probably don't want to know how common this fetish is in pro wrestling. Anyway, Jack was peeved about this and went public with it, and then refused to wrestle after Mahoney on shows where blood was involved, as he considered it dangerous. Mahoney then threatened Jack before the Extreme Reunion show. Nothing much happened there, then Jack got even more upset when Rob Feinstein informed him that Mahoney called him the n-word on a shoot interview he did with RF Video. This led to Jack punching Mahoney immediately upon entering the locker room and pulling his knife out, security officials were able to separate them before anything else happened.

 

[Rollie_Fingaz]

y'know....i like this angle



I'm also like these storylines better than WWE's (except the AJ angle of course)

He will be the next big thing in the X Division once Aries moves on.

 

[kanedagame]

What happened with that??

Huffman had backstage problems in 2006 at a SummerSlam pay-per-view commercial shoot. It was reported on WWE.com that Huffman got into a real life fist fight with Dave Batista. The fight was believed to stem from the idea that Batista considered himself to be better than the rest of the roster due to his main event status and relatively quick climb to achieve it. It is believed that Booker T. seemed to get the better of the fight. According to sources backstage, both men were left bloodied and bruised, however Booker was said to have been praised by many wrestlers in the back for speaking his mind to Batista about his attitude

 

[The Pope]

I remember seeing this push the Big Show is currently having by Mark Henry: 3-5 month reign of just running through the roster beating ass right and left but come month 6 he'll be getting his ass beat by b- list wrestlers like Heath Slater and Santino ( btw the fact that he's still the U.S. Champion is a joke, hell let Otunga have a run with it for a while )

I said it b4 and I'll say it again: A.J. is sexy as fuck and shame on me for not noticing it...WWE should of gave her more t.v. time in the past ​

 

[c_commander]

I remember seeing this push the Big Show is currently having by Mark Henry: 3-5 month reign of just running through the roster beating ass right and left but come month 6 he'll be getting his ass beat by b- list wrestlers like Heath Slater and Santino ( btw the fact that he's still the U.S. Champion is a joke, hell let Otunga have a run with it for a while )

I said it b4 and I'll say it again: A.J. is sexy as fuck and shame on me for not noticing it...WWE should of gave her more t.v. time in the past ​

Yes she is and it's great that for once they have noticed somebody taking the most of an opportunity and decided to do more with them.
I think the thing that worked against her is that in terms of looks she isn't the stereotypical diva. She's bad but she's not plastic like the WWE seems to favor.

Otunga has done a good job of with the tweaks to his character but giving him the title would be just as bad as giving it to Santino. Giving it to a character who is/kinda is over but who having a title won't really benefit because they're not a good wrestler.

Chikara issued a press release on Thursday to reveal seven of the 16 teams that will compete at the King of Trios event.

-Jerry Lynn, Too Cold Scorpio, and Tommy Dreamer (The Extreme Trio)

-Chuck Taylor, Johnny Gargano, and Icarus (F.I.S.T.)

-Obariyon, Kobald, Kodama (The Batiri)

-Hallowicked, Frightmare, Ultramantis Black (The Special Envoy)

-"Mr. Touchdown" Mark Angelosetti, Dasher Hatfield, and Matt Classic (The Throwbacks)

-Commando Bolshoi, Tsubasa Kuragaki, and Kaori Yoneyama (Team JWP)

-Nick Jackson, Matt Jackson, and Mike Bennett (Ring of Honor)

Thanks to Deltronz for hyping Chikara up. It is an entertaining company who definitely bring something good and they pull out the stops for King of Trios.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I remember seeing this push the Big Show is currently having by Mark Henry: 3-5 month reign of just running through the roster beating ass right and left but come month 6 he'll be getting his ass beat by b- list wrestlers like Heath Slater and Santino ( btw the fact that he's still the U.S. Champion is a joke, hell let Otunga have a run with it for a while )

I said it b4 and I'll say it again: A.J. is sexy as fuck and shame on me for not noticing it...WWE should of gave her more t.v. time in the past ​

Pope
You nailed it, this is the Mark Henry push again. With big guys, it doesn't take much to rehabilitate them since it's easy for a huge monster to get over as a heel as long as they really bring, as Henry, Show, and Kane have been doing.
As far as Show doing jobs, I think him vs Punk would be a different match and could be good but if he doesn't end up doing a job to Broadus Clay this summer, then all of these beatdowns would be for nothing and a waste of a guy who is getting over.

AJ's hot as fish grease.

I agree with putting the US title on Otunga. His work has gotten better and he's been great with the old "Narcissist/Masterpiece" gimmick. If they ever want the title to mean anything, they're going to have to take it off Santino, who doesn't need it anyway. But this is what it looks like when they want to push a guy as opposed to how they're doing Zack Ryder.

Thanks to Deltronz for hyping Chikara up. It is an entertaining company who definitely bring something good and they pull out the stops for King of Trios.

This fed is off my radar except when they work with ROH or their guys pop up in other places but when I saw this lineup, I jumped on the bandwagon.
Good for Jerry Lynn for getting on some big indy shows before he retires this year.

 

[dtownsfinest]

I thought Mark Henry's pushed stop because of injury though?

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I thought Mark Henry's pushed stop because of injury though?

It did. He was on fire until he got hurt. Hopefully when he comes back, they keep him strong but I doubt it. I think he's earned a big Cena ppv main event push before he retires.

 

[dtownsfinest]

It did. He was on fire until he got hurt. Hopefully when he comes back, they keep him strong but I doubt it. I think he's earned a big Cena ppv main event push before he retires.

Yea I was so happy for dude man he was getting that push and looking good doing it. Fans was starting to ride for him as a heel too. I hated that injury got him.

 

[kanedagame]

I asked Bruno about when WWE approached him and why he turned it down. Sammartino said that Triple H (who he described as a "gentleman" numerous times) had called him, noting that he wanted to open "communications" since they had never spoken and he knew the bad blood between Vince McMahon and Bruno. He explained to Sammartino how much he "respected the wrestling of yesteryear" and was trying to steer the business away from the raunchier aspects back to something better. He noted that Wrestlemania and the Hall of Fame would be in the New York-New Jersey area, with the Hall possibly in Madison Square Garden, and felt the fans would like to see Bruno inducted there.

Sammartino, whiled noting that he liked what he heard from HHH and felt he was a gentleman, declined as there was no physical Hall of Fame and since WWE had inducted actors and boxers and others who aren't wrestlers into the Hall, he couldn't get behind the Hall and want to be inducted into it. Sammartino also noted that the past issues were also part of the problem and admitted that while "you never know what tomorrow will bring", he couldn't see himself being involved with WWE.

Sammartino said that he appreciated the offer and the kindness and the way they were going to treat him, he couldn't "in good conscience" accept the offer.

I asked Sammartino whether the conversation with HHH could at least open the doors for Bruno to be more involved with WWE projects such as historical features and documentaries. Sammartino said Triple H was a nice guy. "I'd have no problem having any conversation with him at anytime about anything", but as far as being involved with them, "at this point, I have no interest whatsoever."

Sammartino said he was surprised they even reached out to him and felt this time, it was different because it was HHH who reached out as opposed to someone's lawyer or someone like that.

When asked about what changes WWE could make to get him to reconsider, Sammartino admitted that "maybe I'm stubborn in my own way, but [Vince McMahon] is stubborn in his own way and I don't know that we could ever agree totally on anything. So, I don't see anything happening as long as Vince McMahon is in the company. I really don't."

Sammartino also noted a documentary on his life has been completed and would be seen within the next year. A feature film on his life is still in the works.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree with Bruno. Vince has ruined wrestling to wear I can't even watch it.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Yea I was so happy for dude man he was getting that push and looking good doing it. Fans was starting to ride for him as a heel too. I hated that injury got him.

He was starting to get babyface reactions like what happened to other heels like the Road Warriors and the nWo. All Mark did was talk shit and back it up and fans were loving it.

When asked about what changes WWE could make to get him to reconsider, Sammartino admitted that "maybe I'm stubborn in my own way, but [Vince McMahon] is stubborn in his own way and I don't know that we could ever agree totally on anything. So, I don't see anything happening as long as Vince McMahon is in the company. I really don't."

Sammartino also noted a documentary on his life has been completed and would be seen within the next year. A feature film on his life is still in the works.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree with Bruno. Vince has ruined wrestling to wear I can't even watch it.

I don't think it's about that anymore with Bruno. In fact, WWE today looks a lot like WWWF when Bruno was champ, just without blood. He was SuperCena first. At this point, I think he's dug his heels in and Vince has dug his heels in. I do wonder though how he would respond if Vince called him.

 

[The Pope]

I thought Mark Henry's pushed stop because of injury though?

Yeah that was it, word was though that before the injury had happened they were going to keep the belt on him longer but hell even while he was injured he was still coming out competing.

 

[ThaBurgerPimp]

could Winter be on her way out as well..?

Angelina Love Gone from TNA
Posted by Jeremy Thomas on 07.02.2012

Former Knockouts champion released…

- Angelina Love has announced that she has left TNA. Love posted the following to her Twitter account:

To all my wonderful fans, just want to let you know I have been granted my release from TNA. It was completely amicable parting of ways and I want to thank TNA and all of its employees for the wonderful journey I've had there over the years. Now I'm on to the next amazing chapter of my life! If you are looking to book me please contact John at john@spectacularsignings.com Thank you so much!

She then retweeted and replied to a message of support from Velvet Sky:

I love u with all my heart, we did something so amazing with TBP and the memories from that will last forever! I cherish our friendship so much, thank you for EVERYTHING Ebud!! RT @VelVelHoller: @ActualALove such a damn shame!! So much left to do there! I know you're gonna move on to big things bud, good luck and as always I love u!!




TNA Workers React To Angelina Love Leaving The Company
Posted by Joseph Lee on 07.04.2012

She'll be missed...

Several TNA workers have reacted to the departure of Angelina Love from the company. She announced she was leaving on Sunday.

Velvet Sky: "Such a damn shame!! So much left to do there! I know you're gonna move on to big things bud, good luck and as always I love u!!"

Madison Rayne: "I'll miss seeing your beautiful face. I can't WAIT to see the awesome things you're about to accomplish though."

Devon: "God is with you girl, see you soon."

Tara: "Good luck @ActualALove! You will have success no matter where your journey takes you."

Traci Brooks: "No doubt Angelina Love was one of the best KOs (being canadian and all). I know she'll succeed at whatever lies ahead!"

Rosita: "I love Angel so much and it's gonna suck not being able to work with her and have the great times we have at work BUT I will see her elsewhere and she is such a beautiful and talented woman she will excel in ANYTHING she choses to do next! I had my dark match with her. That was the match that got me signed. I will forever be grateful to her for being so awesome to me as a friend and co-worker."

The former five-time Knockouts Champion is now calling herself Angel Williams, according to her Twitter. She is listed as a "pro Wrestler/Model/Actress/Queen of all trades" and is accepting appearance requests through John@Spectacularsignings.com.

 

[Multi - Personality]

Kenny King on TNA

...That is all.

 

[c_commander]

Kenny King on TNA

...That is all.

It was great to see him and other than a couple of blown spots he was solid. Too bad that it is highly doubtful that he is sticking around beyond the PPV.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

ROH-KENNY KING UPDATE

The appearance of ROH wrestler Kenny King on another television wrestling program tonight has raised speculation on his future as well as how this appearance could occur.

The contract Kenny King signed in June 2011 expired 11 days ago. Before that expiration, an agreement was reached between Kenny and ROH management for an extension of that contract, with a provision to allow him to negotiate with any other promotions so that he could evaluate his options and any potential interest in him elsewhere. When that short extension concluded he would then be free to accept an offer elsewhere, or sign another long term contract with ROH. Under this agreement, Kenny was free to negotiate but not to wrestle for another organization without ROH's permission.

When Kenny was presented with the written extension reflecting this verbal and handshake agreement, he informed ROH he was unsure if other promotions would accept the negotiation clause. He was told he could take the document to be examined by his attorney or other interested parties before executing it to be reassured any other offers would not be viewed as contract tampering. He also informed ROH that he would keep us apprised of any developments.

He contacted ROH on Tuesday July 3 to inform us that he had a meeting in Orlando on Thursday, July 5, which was within the scope of the agreement he had made. Then, early morning on July 5, he contacted an ROH official to say he would be wrestling on the Orlando event that night. He was told he did not have permission to appear live on television as it violated the agreement that had been made. His response was that the deal he had shaken hands on and agreed to in principle "seemed fair at the time", but "others" had told him it was not, so he did not intend to honor it.

Ring of Honor is disappointed that Kenny has chosen to make this decision, after the company had agreed to and followed through on everything he had asked for at the time of our negotiation. However, we consider this breach of his verbal agreement unacceptable, and regardless of his future employment status with any other wrestling company, ROH will not be doing business with Kenny King going forward.

A statement from ROH will be forthcoming regarding the future of the ROH World Tag Team Championship. Co-holder Rhett Titus remains on the active ROH roster.

Well, that's the end of the All Night Express so fans of great tag teams can add another to the list. But I hope it works out for him in TNA.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Watching Smackdown and damn, that show is the Island of Missed Pushes for real.
There's Drew McIntyre, Alex Riley, Tyler Reks, Justin Gabriel, Ezekiel Jackson. Then add a few guys that could be big but time is ticking: Cody and Dolph. Even their top guys are guys they've dropped the ball with and aren't as hot they were/should be: Alberto and Sheamus.
Bringing over Punk and Cena probably helps with ratings and ticket sales but it doesn't give these guys opportunity to move up.