no one watching the Battleground PPV?
THE WRESTLING THREAD: HHH KEEPS DOING HHH THINGS.....
- Thread starter ArsenalCannon357
- Start date
Robbie E hittin Brooke can't hate on that playa.
Anybody got a link for the Battleground replay?
saw the ME finish coming a mile away..
^ HGH is a hell of a drug..
was expecting big show to grab her and kiss her like in those primetime soaps after all the slaps
was expecting big show to grab her and kiss her like in those primetime soaps after all the slaps
WTF? Is Bob Backlund drinking virgin blood or something? That mofo ain't aging. Last time he was on TV was during the Attitude Era as a special ref.
Giant swing...for real! :lmao:
^ HGH is a hell of a drug..
was expecting big show to grab her and kiss her like in those primetime soaps after all the slaps
She's swallowing HHH's protein shakes..
WWE FAILED ITS AUDIENCE LAST NIGHT WITH BATTLEGROUND
by Mike Johnson @ 10:34 AM on 10/7/2013
Last night's WWE Battleground PPV reminded me, of all things, of a TNA PPV under the Vince Russo regime.
There were a number of times where TNA shows would have a lot of solid to good to great wrestling in the past, but it felt like the performers were often working to over-achieve due to the creative direction and booking hampering what they could naturally achieve themselves. Sometimes, they would succeeded and sometimes, the audience was left feeling empty by an un-needed run-in, interference or screwy finish.
When you think about it, that pretty much defines last night's Battleground PPV, especially the main event featuring Daniel Bryan vs. Randy Orton, which ended with both men laid out by Big Show, who then celebrated to the tune of his theme music as if he had accomplished this great milestone - as opposed to being the avatar for WWE management pulling the rug out from under paying customers and two hard working wrestlers, who were forced to work hard to overachieve physically in advance of the finish cutting the legs out from the audience's enjoyment of their work.
Instead of getting some sort of vindication or resolution, viewers were left empty and shaking their heads. The amount of negative email following the show was staggering, almost at the level of the most angry in years - but they weren't angry at who won or loss, but at the idea that they had wasted their time.
I usually write about what works, what doesn't and what we learned. This time, I am about to write about what worries me. The finish to the Daniel Bryan vs. Randy Orton was a frightening, needless finish to a PPV - that type that doesn't serve to elevate anyone as a hero or as a villain, or even enhances a storyline, much less moving it forward.
It was the type of finish that leads to fans angry in the wrong way. It doesn't piss them off because their hero was wronged and they want to see him get his comeuppance. It doesn't piss them off because the dastardly villain somehow made it out by the seat of his pants again, unscathed. It doesn't even get heat on the evil puppet-masters running the promotion.
Instead, it pisses off an audience that invested, at the very least $44.95 and three hours of their time and emotional interest on a show that once again, for the second month in a row, featured a PPV that at the end of the day, was meaningless and meant nothing.
It was the type of show that makes an audience say "F*** this" and not want to spend their money going further. It's the same sort of mistake that WCW made a lot of during the latter end of the Monday Night Wars, where fans would pay to see a title change or the culmination of something important to them and by the next day, the belt was switched back, the moment of vindication was gone and they were off to the next angle in an endless race to capture the next quarter hour rating.
In the end, WCW was dead - not just for that reason, but for many others, but at least a big part of those reasons was that the company wasn't making any money: in part, because they had run their audience off.
Sure, WWE is in far stronger shape today than WCW was during that era, but they just reduced their earnings outlook and their money-making machine, John Cena, is out for at least a few more months while he's rehabilitating his injuries. I cannot envision a worse time to show the audience - two months in a ROW no less (I can forgive the Summerslam cash-in since it was teased and PPVs have ended with the cash-in title change before) - that their PPV expenditures were money and time wasted.
It's almost as if WWE crafted the finish specifically as a middle finger to fans who called asking for a refund after Night of Champions because the last show was rendering meaningless 24 hours later. One hopes that isn't the case, but you have to wonder.
Sure, all of this will lead to a Hell in A Cell showdown for Daniel Bryan and Randy Orton - perhaps with Big Show outside the cage to tease where his loyalties will truly, finally lie - but what paying fan, in his right mind, in this current strained economy, is willing to chance yet another PPV purchase after being burned not once, but twice in a row by creative decisions that serve to do nothing but piss on the audience?
Fool me one, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on you. Now, maybe you want to fool me three times? To note a much-overused phrase of late, this is "Good for business" HOW?
WWE really owes their audience an apology.
Leave the cliffhanger endings for Monday Night Raw - or make the PPVs free cable broadcasts, WWE Network or not. PPVs should not be part of a regular, episodic cycle. They are meant to be special. If they are not, just stop producing them and focus on getting the Network off the ground already, so at least they can run the blanket excuse of "It's just another TV show."
PPVs are not meant to be another show. They are meant to be the spectacle, the big show that is the modern day equivalent of what a Madison Square Garden card used to be monthly in the 1970s. Not every show has to end with a decisive, clean finish - it's pro wrestling. But every show has to have an actual, you know, ENDING!
No one pays to see a movie where the ending just goes to black. TV viewers don't want to invest in a series where the series ends in an unfulfilled way (Sopranos backlash, anyone?).
Wrestling fans, sports fans, theater fans, comic book fans - fans of any genre of entertainment want to see three things: a reason to be emotionally invested, a reason to spend their money and the feeling with those investments, it was time and money well spent.
WWE failed on all three fronts last night.
I'm glad the Rhodes match ended with a clean pinfall, with the faces winning. No shenanigans, just great wrestling and a finish. If they booked the top angle like that, Orton/Bryan would be a hot feud.
AJ LEE INJURED
by Mike Johnson @ 9:19 PM on 10/7/2013
WWE announced that WWE Divas champion AJ Lee suffered a concussion at last night's Battleground PPV and is being held out of the ring pending further evaluation.
Lee informed WWE officials that she was having problems remembering the match against Brie Bella last night after striking her head hard against the turnbuckles. Since she was also experiencing headaches, she was immediately pulled. We've heard from a few people she was in rough shape earlier today.
Lee was pulled from the ring and from tonight's Raw taping, where she was slated to wrestle Kaitlyn. She will undergo testing before she is cleared to return and has been ordered not to do anything physical and to steer clear of any stress.
That's tough for AJ. I hope she bounces back. With the Diva division so thin, I don't expect her to be done like Ziggler was after his concussion.
On the "You Know It's Gotten Bad" front
HUGE JOHN CENA UPDATE
by Mike Johnson @ 10:06 PM on 10/7/2013
WWE just announced on Raw that John Cena would return to action on the 10/27 WWE Hell in A Cell PPV, facing World champion Alberto Del Rio.
Cena underwent surgery for a torn triceps in mid-August. At the time, it was believed he would be out of action until January, with the Royal Rumble being his originally expected return appearance.
Last week, WWE announced Cena as making "special appearances" on their Holiday week house events.
With WWE having lowered their earnings expectations for the rest of the year and with the roster looking extremely thin when they run more than one show per night, an early Cena return is the best thing WWE could hope for
So with two weeks to build it, they're going to go with Cena vs Del Rio out of nowhere.
This won't help either guy.
WWE FAILED ITS AUDIENCE LAST NIGHT WITH BATTLEGROUND
by Mike Johnson @ 10:34 AM on 10/7/2013
Last night's WWE Battleground PPV reminded me, of all things, of a TNA PPV under the Vince Russo regime.
There were a number of times where TNA shows would have a lot of solid to good to great wrestling in the past, but it felt like the performers were often working to over-achieve due to the creative direction and booking hampering what they could naturally achieve themselves. Sometimes, they would succeeded and sometimes, the audience was left feeling empty by an un-needed run-in, interference or screwy finish.
When you think about it, that pretty much defines last night's Battleground PPV, especially the main event featuring Daniel Bryan vs. Randy Orton, which ended with both men laid out by Big Show, who then celebrated to the tune of his theme music as if he had accomplished this great milestone - as opposed to being the avatar for WWE management pulling the rug out from under paying customers and two hard working wrestlers, who were forced to work hard to overachieve physically in advance of the finish cutting the legs out from the audience's enjoyment of their work.
Instead of getting some sort of vindication or resolution, viewers were left empty and shaking their heads. The amount of negative email following the show was staggering, almost at the level of the most angry in years - but they weren't angry at who won or loss, but at the idea that they had wasted their time.
I usually write about what works, what doesn't and what we learned. This time, I am about to write about what worries me. The finish to the Daniel Bryan vs. Randy Orton was a frightening, needless finish to a PPV - that type that doesn't serve to elevate anyone as a hero or as a villain, or even enhances a storyline, much less moving it forward.
It was the type of finish that leads to fans angry in the wrong way. It doesn't piss them off because their hero was wronged and they want to see him get his comeuppance. It doesn't piss them off because the dastardly villain somehow made it out by the seat of his pants again, unscathed. It doesn't even get heat on the evil puppet-masters running the promotion.
Instead, it pisses off an audience that invested, at the very least $44.95 and three hours of their time and emotional interest on a show that once again, for the second month in a row, featured a PPV that at the end of the day, was meaningless and meant nothing.
It was the type of show that makes an audience say "F*** this" and not want to spend their money going further. It's the same sort of mistake that WCW made a lot of during the latter end of the Monday Night Wars, where fans would pay to see a title change or the culmination of something important to them and by the next day, the belt was switched back, the moment of vindication was gone and they were off to the next angle in an endless race to capture the next quarter hour rating.
In the end, WCW was dead - not just for that reason, but for many others, but at least a big part of those reasons was that the company wasn't making any money: in part, because they had run their audience off.
Sure, WWE is in far stronger shape today than WCW was during that era, but they just reduced their earnings outlook and their money-making machine, John Cena, is out for at least a few more months while he's rehabilitating his injuries. I cannot envision a worse time to show the audience - two months in a ROW no less (I can forgive the Summerslam cash-in since it was teased and PPVs have ended with the cash-in title change before) - that their PPV expenditures were money and time wasted.
It's almost as if WWE crafted the finish specifically as a middle finger to fans who called asking for a refund after Night of Champions because the last show was rendering meaningless 24 hours later. One hopes that isn't the case, but you have to wonder.
Sure, all of this will lead to a Hell in A Cell showdown for Daniel Bryan and Randy Orton - perhaps with Big Show outside the cage to tease where his loyalties will truly, finally lie - but what paying fan, in his right mind, in this current strained economy, is willing to chance yet another PPV purchase after being burned not once, but twice in a row by creative decisions that serve to do nothing but piss on the audience?
Fool me one, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on you. Now, maybe you want to fool me three times? To note a much-overused phrase of late, this is "Good for business" HOW?
WWE really owes their audience an apology.
Leave the cliffhanger endings for Monday Night Raw - or make the PPVs free cable broadcasts, WWE Network or not. PPVs should not be part of a regular, episodic cycle. They are meant to be special. If they are not, just stop producing them and focus on getting the Network off the ground already, so at least they can run the blanket excuse of "It's just another TV show."
PPVs are not meant to be another show. They are meant to be the spectacle, the big show that is the modern day equivalent of what a Madison Square Garden card used to be monthly in the 1970s. Not every show has to end with a decisive, clean finish - it's pro wrestling. But every show has to have an actual, you know, ENDING!
No one pays to see a movie where the ending just goes to black. TV viewers don't want to invest in a series where the series ends in an unfulfilled way (Sopranos backlash, anyone?).
Wrestling fans, sports fans, theater fans, comic book fans - fans of any genre of entertainment want to see three things: a reason to be emotionally invested, a reason to spend their money and the feeling with those investments, it was time and money well spent.
WWE failed on all three fronts last night.
I'm glad the Rhodes match ended with a clean pinfall, with the faces winning. No shenanigans, just great wrestling and a finish. If they booked the top angle like that, Orton/Bryan would be a hot feud.
AJ LEE INJURED
by Mike Johnson @ 9:19 PM on 10/7/2013
WWE announced that WWE Divas champion AJ Lee suffered a concussion at last night's Battleground PPV and is being held out of the ring pending further evaluation.
Lee informed WWE officials that she was having problems remembering the match against Brie Bella last night after striking her head hard against the turnbuckles. Since she was also experiencing headaches, she was immediately pulled. We've heard from a few people she was in rough shape earlier today.
Lee was pulled from the ring and from tonight's Raw taping, where she was slated to wrestle Kaitlyn. She will undergo testing before she is cleared to return and has been ordered not to do anything physical and to steer clear of any stress.
That's tough for AJ. I hope she bounces back. With the Diva division so thin, I don't expect her to be done like Ziggler was after his concussion.
On the "You Know It's Gotten Bad" front
HUGE JOHN CENA UPDATE
by Mike Johnson @ 10:06 PM on 10/7/2013
WWE just announced on Raw that John Cena would return to action on the 10/27 WWE Hell in A Cell PPV, facing World champion Alberto Del Rio.
Cena underwent surgery for a torn triceps in mid-August. At the time, it was believed he would be out of action until January, with the Royal Rumble being his originally expected return appearance.
Last week, WWE announced Cena as making "special appearances" on their Holiday week house events.
With WWE having lowered their earnings expectations for the rest of the year and with the roster looking extremely thin when they run more than one show per night, an early Cena return is the best thing WWE could hope for
So with two weeks to build it, they're going to go with Cena vs Del Rio out of nowhere.
Nah, Del Rio needs some real comp, everyone complains about that title meaning nothing Cena automatically brings credibility to it
The only way that's true is if it's title match and Del Rio wins. It's bad enough Cena comes back from a long layoff, coming off a clean pinfall loss in his last match, and gets a (possible) title match, with almost no build up, but for him to win would hurt the title and be the last nail in the coffin for Del Rio to be seen as a legit top guy. Del Rio had real comp in Christian and RVD, it was the way the feuds were booked and the way the champion was booked that made the title meaningless.
I agree, that Christian match was horrible booking, I mean at least Cena gets three weeks buildup Christian got fucked yet again by management. RVD had build but the iwc fucked it up because everyone knew he was dipping for a minute so he was gonna lose.
I say let del Rio cheat Cena for the win and then build a rivalry. If he takes the title its a slap in a face of a 3-4 star match main eventer.
3 weeks for what's supposed to be a MAJOR match is terrible build up, especially when Cena's not even there for the first of the 3 weeks.
I agree, ADR should win and then let them actually feud over the title until the December ppv.
And ADR should still win.
The RVD-ADR feud was only slightly better than the one with Christian. The "IWC" (what is that really?) didn't ruin anything. It was reported when he first got back that RVD was only on a part time basis in 90 day increments. Math ruined it if that mattered to you.
The IWC is just another word for smarks, the IWC used to be fans like us just discussing what we like or didn't like about whatever happened in WWE WCW ECW etc. Sadly those people who think they know every damn thing about wrestling took over and gave us a bad name, you have guys who've never had an ounce of training say they could wrestler better than Cena. They also think they could run a more successful business even though they have 0 business experience, but their biggest flaw is bitching about everything including stuff that happens that they actually wanted to see
I phrased that wrong. My bad.
I know what it's supposed to be, I just think it's an easy boogeyman to people to complain about (ironically, they complain about the "IWC" on the internet).
I know what it's supposed to be, I just think it's an easy boogeyman to people to complain about (ironically, they complain about the "IWC" on the internet).
Rosa Mendes update
Agreed
I hate that Micheal Hayes dude, he's why I really don't like Vince, this dude stays employed despite being a racist asshole (Henry was gonna fuck him up for calling him a nigg3rrr). He continues to make racist shit like Crime Time and shit, and Vince keeps this ignorant hillbilly employed. Fuck him, Rosa can get the dick tho......
Not in the instance that I was using it, the IWC is annoying in some cases because they ruin turns and match endings and I don't wanna know that shit. It's like sunday they tell you RVD is leaving so I'm like "there's no way he's gonna win". I usually go to Lordsofpain but I just like to watch the shows with my kids and be surprised.
So wait,what happened to Big Shows 'Iron clad contract'???
So wait,what happened to Big Shows 'Iron clad contract'???
Welcome to the WWE... 5 minute memory spans...
You can hate him if you want but from listening to other Black wrestlers, Hayes isn't a racist, he just thinks he's "down". Booker even said Michael thinks he's Black. He tried his Black card on Mark Henry and nearly lost his life.
I hate Michael Hayes because there is no excuse for him to be a high ranking member of the Creative team and the booking, especially for the heels, to be so bad.
I was thinking of exactly your instance. RVD's contract status was well known and publicized when he came back to WWE. In 2013, if you don't want the internet to spoil matches (and his possible leaving does not mean he wouldn't have won anyway and Sandow cashed in on him), it's up to you to avoid those spoilers. Sometimes it can't be helped because people aren't always thoughtful of other people but it's on you to make the effort, even if that means not logging on.
Plus, you keep talking about "the IWC" like it's something you are not a part of while your very existence in this thread and wherever else you discuss wrestling online means you are.
I was wondering how Samoa Joe was going to fit into BFG and I'm interested in this. Has he ever been in an Ultimate X match before?
The way TNA books Aries is how you book your heels between angles. I'd hate to see AJ Styles leave but if he does, Austin Aries can be plugged right into his spot without missing a beat.
Them even mentioning Ken Anderson makes me think they've either re-signed him or are very close. They want him and he wants to come back.
The way TNA books Aries is how you book your heels between angles. I'd hate to see AJ Styles leave but if he does, Austin Aries can be plugged right into his spot without missing a beat.
Them even mentioning Ken Anderson makes me think they've either re-signed him or are very close. They want him and he wants to come back.
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I get the feeling and maybe I'm wrong but I feel like they don't know what to do with Joe so a potential Ultimate X match is an easy way to have him in a match on the card...like what WWE used to do with the money in the bank at Mania...some guys you just knew were in the match to be in the match.
Aries is literally one of the best things TNA has going for it. I feel like he has more control over what they do with his character than most. I don't see AJ leaving though only because I think the chance for him to go to WWE and try to be a star has past. I don't see Vince bringing him in and making him anything more than WHC fodder...If anybody in TNA could go now I think Aries and Roode would be able to make it.
I heard Anderson say in an interview he was close to signing a new deal and you know when they mention you on tv sooner or later you'll be around. I could see him screw Ray over for the title and that would give Ray an easy feud to go into after dropping the title to AJ..
Speaking of AJ, I wonder what the deal is with him wearing a shirt to the ring...most of the time wrestlers do it cause they had some kind of surgery like the Rock or because they don't have the build to go shirtless like Sting...
I think that too. They wanted to use Joe and this was the last good way to squeeze him on the show. I have no problem with it but they need to do something with him afterward.
AJ walked away from WWE years ago and I don't see either party being interested in each other now.
I wouldn't be mad if AJ just left TNA for a year, like Daniels. Work ROH, get some indy dream matches, do some Japan. Then come back fresh with TNA fans welcoming him back.
I hope not. Ken coming back and going at it with Ray again would be good but AJ should beat Ray clean and clean again at Turning Point in a stip match then send them off in different directions. If AJ doesn't re-sign, have him drop the belt to either Ray or Roode.
Probably just trying a different look.
That hush that came over the crowd when AA hit that top rope brainbuster was as impressive as the move.
See that's where we differ me and you talking about wwe isn't to the extent of those dudes clearly spoiling events in the wwe. I know the iwc consists of anyone on the net talking wrestling but you have some sites clearly designed to ruin it for the general viewing audience. Take your reference to rvd I had no idea about his contract until I saw some guy say he wasn't gonna win because he was leaving. Or stuff like when the rock first came back or y2j or even the Brock return when ppl spoil it it cheapens the shock and awe value to me. I just hate that shit.
You should be more selective about where you go online.
And you shouldn't let it spoil anything for you.
So RVD was going to take a break, that did not mean he wasn't going to win anymore than Punk leaving meant he wasn't going to beat Cena two years ago at Money In The Bank.
Plus, we know how damn near every movie or tv show is going to end but if it's still good, we enjoy it for what it is. Approach wrestling like you do any other tv show. That's how they produce it now so you should stop fighting it and go along. It's not a sport and they don't even pretend it is anymore.
Ya'll heard that Sean Waltman interview on Steve Austin's podcast?
