The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage

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The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage

ADAM KOLASINSKI
The debate over whether the state ought to recognize gay marriages has thus far focused on the issue as one of civil rights. Such a treatment is erroneous because state recognition of marriage is not a universal right. States regulate marriage in many ways besides denying men the right to marry men, and women the right to marry women. Roughly half of all states prohibit first cousins from marrying, and all prohibit marriage of closer blood relatives, even if the individuals being married are sterile. In all states, it is illegal to attempt to marry more than one person, or even to pass off more than one person as one’s spouse. Some states restrict the marriage of people suffering from syphilis or other venereal diseases. Homosexuals, therefore, are not the only people to be denied the right to marry the person of their choosing.

I do not claim that all of these other types of couples restricted from marrying are equivalent to homosexual couples. I only bring them up to illustrate that marriage is heavily regulated, and for good reason. When a state recognizes a marriage, it bestows upon the couple certain benefits which are costly to both the state and other individuals. Collecting a deceased spouse’s social security, claiming an extra tax exemption for a spouse, and having the right to be covered under a spouse’s health insurance policy are just a few examples of the costly benefits associated with marriage. In a sense, a married couple receives a subsidy. Why? Because a marriage between two unrelated heterosexuals is likely to result in a family with children, and propagation of society is a compelling state interest. For this reason, states have, in varying degrees, restricted from marriage couples unlikely to produce children.

Granted, these restrictions are not absolute. A small minority of married couples are infertile. However, excluding sterile couples from marriage, in all but the most obvious cases such as those of blood relatives, would be costly. Few people who are sterile know it, and fertility tests are too expensive and burdensome to mandate. One might argue that the exclusion of blood relatives from marriage is only necessary to prevent the conception of genetically defective children, but blood relatives cannot marry even if they undergo sterilization. Some couples who marry plan not to have children, but without mind-reading technology, excluding them is impossible. Elderly couples can marry, but such cases are so rare that it is simply not worth the effort to restrict them. The marriage laws, therefore, ensure, albeit imperfectly, that the vast majority of couples who do get the benefits of marriage are those who bear children.

Homosexual relationships do nothing to serve the state interest of propagating society, so there is no reason for the state to grant them the costly benefits of marriage, unless they serve some other state interest. The burden of proof, therefore, is on the advocates of gay marriage to show what state interest these marriages serve. Thus far, this burden has not been met.

One may argue that lesbians are capable of procreating via artificial insemination, so the state does have an interest in recognizing lesbian marriages, but a lesbian’s sexual relationship, committed or not, has no bearing on her ability to reproduce. Perhaps it may serve a state interest to recognize gay marriages to make it easier for gay couples to adopt. However, there is ample evidence (see, for example, David Popenoe’s Life Without Father) that children need both a male and female parent for proper development. Unfortunately, small sample sizes and other methodological problems make it impossible to draw conclusions from studies that directly examine the effects of gay parenting. However, the empirically verified common wisdom about the importance of a mother and father in a child’s development should give advocates of gay adoption pause. The differences between men and women extend beyond anatomy, so it is essential for a child to be nurtured by parents of both sexes if a child is to learn to function in a society made up of both sexes. Is it wise to have a social policy that encourages family arrangements that deny children such essentials? Gays are not necessarily bad parents, nor will they necessarily make their children gay, but they cannot provide a set of parents that includes both a male and a female.

Some have compared the prohibition of homosexual marriage to the prohibition of interracial marriage. This analogy fails because fertility does not depend on race, making race irrelevant to the state’s interest in marriage. By contrast, homosexuality is highly relevant because it precludes procreation.

Some argue that homosexual marriages serve a state interest because they enable gays to live in committed relationships. However, there is nothing stopping homosexuals from living in such relationships today. Advocates of gay marriage claim gay couples need marriage in order to have hospital visitation and inheritance rights, but they can easily obtain these rights by writing a living will and having each partner designate the other as trustee and heir. There is nothing stopping gay couples from signing a joint lease or owning a house jointly, as many single straight people do with roommates. The only benefits of marriage from which homosexual couples are restricted are those that are costly to the state and society.

Some argue that the link between marriage and procreation is not as strong as it once was, and they are correct. Until recently, the primary purpose of marriage, in every society around the world, has been procreation. In the 20th century, Western societies have downplayed the procreative aspect of marriage, much to our detriment. As a result, the happiness of the parties to the marriage, rather than the good of the children or the social order, has become its primary end, with disastrous consequences. When married persons care more about themselves than their responsibilities to their children and society, they become more willing to abandon these responsibilities, leading to broken homes, a plummeting birthrate, and countless other social pathologies that have become rampant over the last 40 years. Homosexual marriage is not the cause for any of these pathologies, but it will exacerbate them, as the granting of marital benefits to a category of sexual relationships that are necessarily sterile can only widen the separation between marriage and procreation.

The biggest danger homosexual civil marriage presents is the enshrining into law the notion that sexual love, regardless of its fecundity, is the sole criterion for marriage. If the state must recognize a marriage of two men simply because they love one another, upon what basis can it deny marital recognition to a group of two men and three women, for example, or a sterile brother and sister who claim to love each other? Homosexual activists protest that they only want all couples treated equally. But why is sexual love between two people more worthy of state sanction than love between three, or five? When the purpose of marriage is procreation, the answer is obvious. If sexual love becomes the primary purpose, the restriction of marriage to couples loses its logical basis, leading to marital chaos.

Adam Kolasinski is a doctoral student in financial economics.
 
I thought this was an interesting article...

The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage

ADAM KOLASINSKI
The debate over whether the state ought to recognize gay marriages has thus far focused on the issue as one of civil rights. Such a treatment is erroneous because state recognition of marriage is not a universal right. States regulate marriage in many ways besides denying men the right to marry men, and women the right to marry women. Roughly half of all states prohibit first cousins from marrying, and all prohibit marriage of closer blood relatives, even if the individuals being married are sterile. In all states, it is illegal to attempt to marry more than one person, or even to pass off more than one person as one’s spouse. Some states restrict the marriage of people suffering from syphilis or other venereal diseases. Homosexuals, therefore, are not the only people to be denied the right to marry the person of their choosing.

I do not claim that all of these other types of couples restricted from marrying are equivalent to homosexual couples. I only bring them up to illustrate that marriage is heavily regulated, and for good reason. When a state recognizes a marriage, it bestows upon the couple certain benefits which are costly to both the state and other individuals. Collecting a deceased spouse’s social security, claiming an extra tax exemption for a spouse, and having the right to be covered under a spouse’s health insurance policy are just a few examples of the costly benefits associated with marriage. In a sense, a married couple receives a subsidy. Why? Because a marriage between two unrelated heterosexuals is likely to result in a family with children, and propagation of society is a compelling state interest. For this reason, states have, in varying degrees, restricted from marriage couples unlikely to produce children.

Granted, these restrictions are not absolute. A small minority of married couples are infertile. However, excluding sterile couples from marriage, in all but the most obvious cases such as those of blood relatives, would be costly. Few people who are sterile know it, and fertility tests are too expensive and burdensome to mandate. One might argue that the exclusion of blood relatives from marriage is only necessary to prevent the conception of genetically defective children, but blood relatives cannot marry even if they undergo sterilization. Some couples who marry plan not to have children, but without mind-reading technology, excluding them is impossible. Elderly couples can marry, but such cases are so rare that it is simply not worth the effort to restrict them. The marriage laws, therefore, ensure, albeit imperfectly, that the vast majority of couples who do get the benefits of marriage are those who bear children.

Homosexual relationships do nothing to serve the state interest of propagating society, so there is no reason for the state to grant them the costly benefits of marriage, unless they serve some other state interest. The burden of proof, therefore, is on the advocates of gay marriage to show what state interest these marriages serve. Thus far, this burden has not been met.

One may argue that lesbians are capable of procreating via artificial insemination, so the state does have an interest in recognizing lesbian marriages, but a lesbian’s sexual relationship, committed or not, has no bearing on her ability to reproduce. Perhaps it may serve a state interest to recognize gay marriages to make it easier for gay couples to adopt. However, there is ample evidence (see, for example, David Popenoe’s Life Without Father) that children need both a male and female parent for proper development. Unfortunately, small sample sizes and other methodological problems make it impossible to draw conclusions from studies that directly examine the effects of gay parenting. However, the empirically verified common wisdom about the importance of a mother and father in a child’s development should give advocates of gay adoption pause. The differences between men and women extend beyond anatomy, so it is essential for a child to be nurtured by parents of both sexes if a child is to learn to function in a society made up of both sexes. Is it wise to have a social policy that encourages family arrangements that deny children such essentials? Gays are not necessarily bad parents, nor will they necessarily make their children gay, but they cannot provide a set of parents that includes both a male and a female.

Some have compared the prohibition of homosexual marriage to the prohibition of interracial marriage. This analogy fails because fertility does not depend on race, making race irrelevant to the state’s interest in marriage. By contrast, homosexuality is highly relevant because it precludes procreation.

Some argue that homosexual marriages serve a state interest because they enable gays to live in committed relationships. However, there is nothing stopping homosexuals from living in such relationships today. Advocates of gay marriage claim gay couples need marriage in order to have hospital visitation and inheritance rights, but they can easily obtain these rights by writing a living will and having each partner designate the other as trustee and heir. There is nothing stopping gay couples from signing a joint lease or owning a house jointly, as many single straight people do with roommates. The only benefits of marriage from which homosexual couples are restricted are those that are costly to the state and society.

Some argue that the link between marriage and procreation is not as strong as it once was, and they are correct. Until recently, the primary purpose of marriage, in every society around the world, has been procreation. In the 20th century, Western societies have downplayed the procreative aspect of marriage, much to our detriment. As a result, the happiness of the parties to the marriage, rather than the good of the children or the social order, has become its primary end, with disastrous consequences. When married persons care more about themselves than their responsibilities to their children and society, they become more willing to abandon these responsibilities, leading to broken homes, a plummeting birthrate, and countless other social pathologies that have become rampant over the last 40 years. Homosexual marriage is not the cause for any of these pathologies, but it will exacerbate them, as the granting of marital benefits to a category of sexual relationships that are necessarily sterile can only widen the separation between marriage and procreation.

The biggest danger homosexual civil marriage presents is the enshrining into law the notion that sexual love, regardless of its fecundity, is the sole criterion for marriage. If the state must recognize a marriage of two men simply because they love one another, upon what basis can it deny marital recognition to a group of two men and three women, for example, or a sterile brother and sister who claim to love each other? Homosexual activists protest that they only want all couples treated equally. But why is sexual love between two people more worthy of state sanction than love between three, or five? When the purpose of marriage is procreation, the answer is obvious. If sexual love becomes the primary purpose, the restriction of marriage to couples loses its logical basis, leading to marital chaos.

This is the most ridiculous, un-thought out piece of “eugenic-sistic”/Nazi reasoned rant I have read. Limiting same sex marriage because they cannot pro create, but lesbian don’t count because there is no man involved? Obama's lack of a father must mean he is a freak!
 
Limiting same sex marriage because they cannot pro create, but lesbian don’t count because there is no man involved?

One may argue that lesbians are capable of procreating via artificial insemination, so the state does have an interest in recognizing lesbian marriages, but a lesbian’s sexual relationship, committed or not, has no bearing on her ability to reproduce.
 
This is the most ridiculous, un-thought out piece of “eugenic-sistic”/Nazi reasoned rant I have read. Limiting same sex marriage because they cannot pro create, but lesbian don’t count because there is no man involved? Obama's lack of a father must mean he is a freak!

Go ahead thought, start a pro gay marriage thread... :lol:
 
This is the most ridiculous, un-thought out piece of “eugenic-sistic”/Nazi reasoned rant I have read. Limiting same sex marriage because they cannot pro create, but lesbian don’t count because there is no man involved? Obama's lack of a father must mean he is a freak!

That's not what he was saying at all.

You skimmed through it.
 
One may argue that lesbians are capable of procreating via artificial insemination, so the state does have an interest in recognizing lesbian marriages, but a lesbian’s sexual relationship, committed or not, has no bearing on her ability to reproduce.

If you study history, marriage in the US, since we are a secular constitutional nation, main purpose was to legally pass wealth down from the white male to his white children. In fact, since up until women got the right to vote in the 1920s, white women really didn't have any say so on how their husband’s estate was handled. I wasn't automatically considered her property once her husband died. In many instances, her husband’s brothers took charge of the affairs, if there was no will. A white women who had children by a Black male, and there were instances before Black folks were emancipated, that there were white women engaged in willing relationships with Black men, were problematic for states, at least in the slave holding states. In addition, since white men had their way with their property, his children with his property (slave) mother had no rights to his estate. Furthermore, Black folks only received the legal right of marriage after emancipation. Black folks in slavery “jumped-the–broom” as a symbolic gesture, but that was all. This plays itself out today. In many states for inheritance purposes, an out-of-wedlock child usually isn’t considered a child of the father unless the father legally acknowledged the child as his, though there are exceptions to this rule. So the idea that this article poses that the "state" has any interest in male - female marriages for propagating the population is base on a premise that doesn’t exist other than emotion. Children legally adopted have the same rights as children born in to traditional marriages. I can understand that the concept of gay marriage is repulsive to many and that many are against it for religious, moral or personal reasons. But arguing against it on the premise that the “state” has a stake in traditional marriage based on having children is weak intellectually. You would think those that claim to be conservative and are against the “states” interference in personal matters would be the last to use this poorly constructed argument. Try again.
 
But arguing against it on the premise that the “state” has a stake in traditional marriage based on having children is weak intellectually. You would think those that claim to be conservative and are against the “states” interference in personal matters would be the last to use this poorly constructed argument. Try again.

I think your missing the point. Your making a different argument that the purpose of marriage as to control how the land/estate would be distributed.

Why do you believe that the is the author's argument of a legitimate interest in the procreation of children is not valid?

Many states, perhaps up to half of them in the US, don't allow cousins to marry. Why?

The major basis of it being that it increases the slight chance of birth defects.

So why shouldn't states be allowed to regulate marriage to enhance their interest of children being born.

--
On a side note, I find this topic interesting.

I seriously believe that Gay marriage will become normal in many states in the next 10-20 years.
 
So why shouldn't states be allowed to regulate marriage to enhance their interest of children being born.
Are you saying that (a) a state HAS an interest in procreation (especially a compelling interest for the purpose of Constitutional analysis) OR, (b) a state SHOULD HAVE such an interest -- that is Constitutionally recognized as a compelling interest ???

I seriously believe that Gay marriage will become normal in many states in the next 10-20 years.
You're probably right; which is why I think the recent strong attempt to tie gay rights with the Civil Rights Movement. That is, to try to give legitimacy or, rather, to have "gay rights", more particularly "the right to same sex marriage" recognized as a "Fundamental Right" as the same are protected under the Constitution.

It may happen, as you said, but I don't see a clear constitutional path to gay marriage. States may be free to take their own "statutory" approach to gay marriage, but I don't believe that there is firm Constitutional support for it to be recognized as Fundamental, even under some twisted Blackmon "Pnumbra" reasoning.



QueEx
 
GAYS are not an issue. Repeat Gays are not a issue. Yes they can be irritating, yea they get on peoples nerves but they are not the issue. The issue is home prices declining, credit scores irrelevant, one party system, college grads not having jobs, not to mention 2 needless wars. The media is using gays to distract from the real issues, if they succeed about 2 million people will be outta work and America will be a impovished nation just because Bill Clinton and his 2 inch friends have male identity issues... Wake up.
 
Are you saying that (a) a state HAS an interest in procreation (especially a compelling interest for the purpose of Constitutional analysis) OR, (b) a state SHOULD HAVE such an interest -- that is Constitutionally recognized as a compelling interest ???


You're probably right; which is why I think the recent strong attempt to tie gay rights with the Civil Rights Movement. That is, to try to give legitimacy or, rather, to have "gay rights", more particularly "the right to same sex marriage" recognized as a "Fundamental Right" as the same are protected under the Constitution.

It may happen, as you said, but I don't see a clear constitutional path to gay marriage. States may be free to take their own "statutory" approach to gay marriage, but I don't believe that there is firm Constitutional support for it to be recognized as Fundamental, even under some twisted Blackmon "Pnumbra" reasoning.



QueEx


I'll get back to you on the constitutional analysis when I review my con law this summer. :lol:
 
I think your missing the point. Your making a different argument that the purpose of marriage as to control how the land/estate would be distributed.

Why do you believe that the is the author's argument of a legitimate interest in the procreation of children is not valid?

Many states, perhaps up to half of them in the US, don't allow cousins to marry. Why?

The major basis of it being that it increases the slight chance of birth defects.

So why shouldn't states be allowed to regulate marriage to enhance their interest of children being born.

--
On a side note, I find this topic interesting.

I seriously believe that Gay marriage will become normal in many states in the next 10-20 years.

So gay cousins won't marry.
 
GAYS are not an issue. Repeat Gays are not a issue. Yes they can be irritating, yea they get on peoples nerves but they are not the issue. The issue is home prices declining, credit scores irrelevant, one party system, college grads not having jobs, not to mention 2 needless wars. The media is using gays to distract from the real issues, if they succeed about 2 million people will be outta work and America will be a impovished nation just because Bill Clinton and his 2 inch friends have male identity issues... Wake up.

You are correct, but to gay couples who honestly want to have their committed relationships recognized by law, Prop 8 is definitely the issue. But the conservatives/right wing is so resistant to addressing the core issues of socially and economic change, they are throwing every diversion out there to hinder these efforts.
 
You are correct, but to gay couples who honestly want to have their committed relationships recognized by law, Prop 8 is definitely the issue. But the conservatives/right wing is so resistant to addressing the core issues of socially and economic change, they are throwing every diversion out there to hinder these efforts.

ahhhhh really?

How's prop 8 an issue if MOST OF AMERICANS would support it?

Honestly, no one cares about gay marriage socially. It's the fiscal part that turns most people off. Post how Spain's economy is looking right about now..
 
ahhhhh really?

How's prop 8 an issue if MOST OF AMERICANS would support it?

Honestly, no one cares about gay marriage socially. It's the fiscal part that turns most people off. Post how Spain's economy is looking right about now..

When laws against interracial marriages were on the books and enforced a scant 40 to 50 years ago in the south and when Black folks had no rights 150 years ago, most of those that had those rights were turned off then. In fact if you took a poll in the south (former confederate states) today, I'll bet most whites would vote to limit Black folks rights today. Our laws limit the tyranny of the majority. And another of my many questions YOU REFUSE TO ANSWER, how does gay rights fiscally turn most people off? Be specific.
 
source: Huffington Post

Cheney Offers Support For Gay Marriage

Dick Cheney rarely takes a position that places him at a more progressive tilt than President Obama. But on Monday, the former vice president did just that, saying that he supports gay marriage as long as it is deemed legal by state and not federal government.

Speaking at the National Press Club for the Gerald R. Ford Foundation journalism awards, Cheney was asked about recent rulings and legislative action in Iowa and elsewhere that allowed for gay couples to legally wed.

"I think that freedom means freedom for everyone," replied the former V.P. "As many of you know, one of my daughters is gay and it is something we have lived with for a long time in our family. I think people ought to be free to enter into any kind of union they wish. Any kind of arrangement they wish. The question of whether or not there ought to be a federal statute to protect this, I don't support. I do believe that the historically the way marriage has been regulated is at the state level. It has always been a state issue and I think that is the way it ought to be handled, on a state-by-state basis. ... But I don't have any problem with that. People ought to get a shot at that."

Cheney has made similar arguments in support of gay marriage in the past, including during the run-up to the 2004 election. But his current comments come at a moment when the Republican Party and conservative movement is increasingly split on the issue. Bush recount lawyer Ted Olsen and John McCain campaign manager Steve Schmidt have both argued in favor of gay marriage. The religious right, as expected, remains opposed.

Caught up in the debate is the Obama administration. The president has said he supports civil unions for gay couples but that he remains committed to marriage being between and man and woman. His press department has been completely quiet about the recent California Supreme Court case upholding a ban on gay marriage in the state -- something that, it seems, Cheney would object to in spirit if not law.
 
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