"The Problem with Black folks"

No, I don't think that was the point being made here bruh. Practicing solidarity and recognizing kinship due to shared history doesn't mean that each "black person" should, to the degree of minutiae, share the same tastes, interests, aspirations, lifestyle, and social, economic, and religious views.

I believe that was the point. It is true that it is necessary that "black people" see themselves united in a common struggle that affects us all before any real unity and mobilization for change will continue (I say continue because circumstances and the complexities of "the struggle" have changed, and change has been made from decades ago). But that common purpose mustn't be pursued in such a way that it destroys or even condemns the character of the individual. There is little relief for a body whose yoke has been cast off but whose soul is still shackled by the chains of conformity.

Let me just thank you for this lovely post. I agree entirely with the bolded parts. When it comes to blacks coming together...I don't think it should be a prerequisite (awaits the slings and arrows). I do however feel that we should come to together on issues that combat racism and injustice against blacks. Anything outside of that to me is optional.


Co-sign... in fact a lot of black folx are hostile towards anyone or any ideas that break away from the "black orthodoxy".

Atleast someone else gets it.
 
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Let me just thank you for this lovely post. I agree entirely with the bolded parts. When it comes to blacks coming together...I don't think it should be a prerequisite (awaits the slings and arrows). I do however feel that we should come to together on issues that combat racism and injustice against blacks. Anything outside of that to me is optional.

Thanks for your comment. Understand though, I never made such a unsophisticated pronouncement as simply saying, "blacks must come together." What I said is that the only way for blacks, as you put it, to come together on issues that combat racism and injustice against blacks in a markedly effective way that will produce lasting results is for "blacks" to first see themselves as brothers and sisters; to see themselves as partners and members in a mistreated group.

On a slightly different note, the biggest problem facing all human beings as a whole when it comes to conflicts and problems in all arenas seems to me to be the lack of sophisticated opinion forming. Too many people look at things in a black or white, either or fashion. The real world has complexities, involves people's individual and group histories, cultures, and sentiments (right or wrong) and must be seriously considered in order to form a mature stance on all serious issues.

Quick example (which is undoubtedly raise the ire of some simpleton), look how many posts each and every day on this very board say something to the effect of "ALL WHITE PEOPLE HATE BLACK PEOPLE." That unsophisticated viewpoint holds us back, regardless of the circumstances that may have strewn the one holding the person's view in that direction. Don't you know even a blind man can see half as well as those who see the world in black and white?
 
J_Bourne

Thanks for your comment. Understand though, I never made such a unsophisticated pronouncement as simply saying, "blacks must come together." What I said is that the only way for blacks, as you put it, to come together on issues that combat racism and injustice against blacks in a markedly effective way that will produce lasting results is for "blacks" to first see themselves as brothers and sisters; to see themselves as partners and members in a mistreated group.

Good luck. One of the reasons that I feel blacks fighting against racism wont be as difficult is simple...we all are affected by this in roughly the same way. This is probably the only reason I think it would even be a realistic goal. I mean look at the situation of the modern day. Thats pretty the one thing we all seem to be on the same page about.

On a slightly different note, the biggest problem facing all human beings as a whole when it comes to conflicts and problems in all arenas seems to me to be the lack of sophisticated opinion forming. Too many people look at things in a black or white, either or fashion. The real world has complexities, involves people's individual and group histories, cultures, and sentiments (right or wrong) and must be seriously considered in order to form a mature stance on all serious issues.

Agreed. Another problem is when people think that they have the right to dictate how others of their same skin color should live. All of these things certainly do create friction. Which was something that I have said previously. The best course of action is to live and let live. Of course many wont go for that.

Quick example (which is undoubtedly raise the ire of some simpleton), look how many posts each and every day on this very board say something to the effect of "ALL WHITE PEOPLE HATE BLACK PEOPLE." That unsophisticated viewpoint holds us back, regardless of the circumstances that may have strewn the one holding the person's view in that direction. Don't you know even a blind man can see half as well as those who see the world in black and white?

Agreed.
 

Nevsky
[Agreed. Another problem is when people think that they have the right to dictate how others of their same skin color should live. All of these things certainly do create friction. Which was something that I have said previously. The best course of action is to live and let live. Of course many wont go for that.]


I agree that we shouldn't dictate how others of the same skin color should live in specific terms. But I don't think the solution lies in simply live and let live. In many ways, that's what a lot of us are doing; it's really a small group of black people who are aggressive vocalists against the state of black life in America.

I think we much more of us should be more vocal and active in tackling the amount of broken black families; the amount of fathers/mothers absent from their children lives. I think we should be more aggressive in supporting black businesses and demanding high quality service from all of them. I think we should be more engaged in local, state, and national politics.

All of these things and more I believe we should as a group work to do much better in. But these are objectives that affect the group and will in turn redeem the individual without forcing the individual to assimilate his or her soul.
 
The Amerikkkan Idol




As of recently I'm really starting to see that. Especially the anti black woman bullshit. However the title came from the video. I was only sharing a video that I believed had an interesting point of view. I was interested to see what others would think about it. Nothing more than that.



Jews are more of the extreme end. Can't really compare them to blacks. However this behavior is seen in other "bound" cultures, blacks are the only group that I know of to really put ourselves within a box so to speak. If a black person does something out of the "black mainstream" many are quick to criticise or say "they arent black". Regardless of what others are doing I feel it is something that needs to die within our community. Ultimately it will only cause strife within us (or add to it).





Usually it's not a career choice that blacks make a big deal of. Blacks tend to make an issue out of the personal life style choices of other blacks, or their personal tastes. Hell even fashion. To me it seems to be magnified in our community even though it exists to a lesser degree in others. I mean what gives one black person the right to judge another black person for what they like?



How many people even hold that view? If anything I see alot of those italian players being celebrated.




Blacks tend to be some what split down the middle when it comes to interracial themes. However at the end of the day we still have no right to dictate how a stranger should live their life. If it was a relative it would make a little more sense, but people are going to do what they want regardless.



The issue was never black "cultural norms". The issue was with villifying those who don't always engage in them. Or think outside of these "norms". At the end of the day people gravitate towards what fits in with their personal taste. To demonize someone or make them an outcast is foolish. It's just like what the fellow in the video said "You can't be free if you have you let yourself be a slave to what someone else wants" and thats the truth.



Although it was whites that first brought this concept on, many blacks also engage in this as well these days. Much of that is a result of the decline of the black "community". Many blacks hold onto the concept of "everyman for himself" these days. I can't say this mentality is right or wrong. Just a different ideology I suppose.

1. Nah, there's plenty of "What's Wrong With Black People" type threads that aren't about Black women specifically. Hell, there was even a few threads talking about how Black porn is inferior to White porn. Virtually every topic of "Why can't Blacks be________" has been done to death on here.

2. The Black skin makes it harder for us to camouflage ourselves like those other ethnic group, which bounds us together. Therefore whenever Jew is out of the "Jew" mainstream, they just change their names and become White, and their Jewishness isn't really even thought of anymore. Same thing with a lot of Latinos. You look at people like Jon Stewart or Raquel Welch or whomever. You don't find out to years later they're Jewish or Latino or whatever. When you're Black, you don't have that option. Your Blackness is on constant display and you are therefore constantly compared to other Blacks favorably or unfavorably

Asians go through this a lot too, because they are the only other group that cannot completely camouflage themselves, because of their eyes, so you see people like Margaret Cho talking about constantly being judged by how she's representing Asians.

3. Everybody judges everybody on what they like. If you're White and go down the street dressed in a pink mohawk and covered in spikes, you think other Whites aren't judging you? Whatever group you're in, if you try to be different, while in that group, there's gonna be some resistance. Ask somebody who's from The South or a from a Catholic background, what happens when they stray from the cultural norms of their background.

4. I don't see any Italian baseball players really being celebrated, because there aren't that many Italian baseball players, which is my point.

5. I agree, but that's all cultures. Black people react 10x better when people marry outside of our race than most other races do, when their family marries Black. WE may clown you or call you a sellout or something, but many Asians, Whites, and Latinos will completely DISOWN you. When is the last time you saw a Black person DISOWNED for marrying an Asian or Latino, or even White? They look at marrying us as disgracing the whole family, race, and faith, and culture. They might kill ya.

Mama may not like it, but she's not disowning you generally speaking. Not like that. Oh My God, I didn't even cover Arabs and what they'd do to their daughters who marry Black.

6. I agree, vilifying people is wrong, but not unique to Black people, therefore it is not a "problem with Black folks", but a "problem with folks". You will not get the same treatment by us that Asians, Latinos, or Arabs give people who break their cultural norms. We'll just make fun of ya.

7. It's what YOU are calling for, aren't ya? The reason White folks do what the hell they want is because they don't have an identity, and I've shown you that the ones that do, whether they're Jews, Italians, or Irish, or whatever, they're just as intolerant, or even more intolerant than we are of our own.
 
1. Nah, there's plenty of "What's Wrong With Black People" type threads that aren't about Black women specifically. Hell, there was even a few threads talking about how Black porn is inferior to White porn. Virtually every topic of "Why can't Blacks be________" has been done to death on here.

Ok, So I guess this one last one wont hurt.

2. The Black skin makes it harder for us to camouflage ourselves like those other ethnic group, which bounds us together. Therefore whenever Jew is out of the "Jew" mainstream, they just change their names and become White, and their Jewishness isn't really even thought of anymore. Same thing with a lot of Latinos. You look at people like Jon Stewart or Raquel Welch or whomever. You don't find out to years later they're Jewish or Latino or whatever. When you're Black, you don't have that option. Your Blackness is on constant display and you are therefore constantly compared to other Blacks favorably or unfavorably

This thread wasn't about camouflaging anything. It was mostly about the part in bold. The truth is the only way to even begin putting a stop to that mindset is to reject it. We can agree to disagree, I suppose.

Asians go through this a lot too, because they are the only other group that cannot completely camouflage themselves, because of their eyes, so you see people like Margaret Cho talking about constantly being judged by how she's representing Asians.

This belief is backwards regardless of what race pracitices it.

Everybody judges everybody on what they like. If you're White and go down the street dressed in a pink mohawk and covered in spikes, you think other Whites aren't judging you? Whatever group you're in, if you try to be different, while in that group, there's gonna be some resistance.

Oh no, it's now where near the same. When black person does something out of the norm others blacks will come out and want argue that the said individual "is not black". Ive never seen any other group do that shit on the same scale as black americans. The truth be told it doesn't even have to be something as extreme as a pink mohawk. I'm talking about superficial shit. From style of dress to the food someone eats. Like I said before, even if other groups do this blacks take the shit above and beyond. Which is why I stress we need to live and let live.

Ask somebody who's from The South or a from a Catholic background, what happens when they stray from the cultural norms of their background.

Once again...backwards is backwards.


4. I don't see any Italian baseball players really being celebrated, because there aren't that many Italian baseball players, which is my point.

I'm not that up on baseball but I remember Piazza being really celebrated a while back.

Black people react 10x better when people marry outside of our race than most other races do, when their family marries Black.

In general I agree. However this is still seen as a taboo of sorts with many blacks. There is still a stigma attached but in general I think it's less of a big deal in the community than in others.

WE may clown you or call you a sellout or something, but many Asians, Whites, and Latinos will completely DISOWN you.

Attacking another black person with the phrase "sellout" for who they married is certainly a form of disowning them.

When is the last time you saw a Black person DISOWNED for marrying an Asian or Latino, or even White? They look at marrying us as disgracing the whole family, race, and faith, and culture. They might kill ya.

Ive seen it, but it's not that often that it occurs. So I do agree with you about it being not such a big deal however blacks are split with this. Even though the ones that disagree with it wont go to the extremes in this category.

6. I agree, vilifying people is wrong, but not unique to Black people, therefore it is not a "problem with Black folks", but a "problem with folks". You will not get the same treatment by us that Asians, Latinos, or Arabs give people who break their cultural norms. We'll just make fun of ya.

The problem is magnified in the black community. Blacks will certain disown and ostracize other blacks that they deem outside of the norm. This will probably the source much further divide within the black community the future. Although things are certainly divided now, I think it will just become more hostile, if you will. Which really wont be any surprise.


. It's what YOU are calling for, aren't ya? The reason White folks do what the hell they want is because they don't have an identity, and I've shown you that the ones that do, whether they're Jews, Italians, or Irish, or whatever, they're just as intolerant, or even more intolerant than we are of our own.

Is it what I'm calling for? The answer is no. I don't pretend to have the right to tell others how they should live. Although I do believe that it would be best to live and let live. As for what you said about white indentity, the truth be told there isnt just one single identity for blacks. If there was then I don't think we would have difficulty pinning it down. Fuck, were one of the most diverse people in this country and in the world. The problem starts to arise when we try to start defining how other blacks should behave or live. For you to suggest one "identity" to define how 40 million people should live and what they should believe is fucking ridiculous, and this is where we drop the ball. Blacks come from all walks of life, social class,region and religion. The sooner that we can accept the better.

This difference with these other groups being intolerant...ive never heard one of these groups tell others that they don't belong to that group because of their lifestyle. It just doesn't happen as much as it does within the black community. Choice of recreation, sport, music, style of dress no other group attacks it's memebers like black americans when it comes to these things.
 
Ok, So I guess this one last one wont hurt.



This thread wasn't about camouflaging anything. It was mostly about the part in bold. The truth is the only way to even begin putting a stop to that mindset is to reject it. We can agree to disagree, I suppose.



This belief is backwards regardless of what race pracitices it.



Oh no, it's now where near the same. When black person does something out of the norm others blacks will come out and want argue that the said individual "is not black". Ive never seen any other group do that shit on the same scale as black americans. The truth be told it doesn't even have to be something as extreme as a pink mohawk. I'm talking about superficial shit. From style of dress to the food someone eats. Like I said before, even if other groups do this blacks take the shit above and beyond. Which is why I stress we need to live and let live.



Once again...backwards is backwards.




I'm not that up on baseball but I remember Piazza being really celebrated a while back.



In general I agree. However this is still seen as a taboo of sorts with many blacks. There is still a stigma attached but in general I think it's less of a big deal in the community than in others.



Attacking another black person with the phrase "sellout" for who they married is certainly a form of disowning them.



Ive seen it, but it's not that often that it occurs. So I do agree with you about it being not such a big deal however blacks are split with this. Even though the ones that disagree with it wont go to the extremes in this category.



The problem is magnified in the black community. Blacks will certain disown and ostracize other blacks that they deem outside of the norm. This will probably the source much further divide within the black community the future. Although things are certainly divided now, I think it will just become more hostile, if you will. Which really wont be any surprise.




Is it what I'm calling for? The answer is no. I don't pretend to have the right to tell others how they should live. Although I do believe that it would be best to live and let live. As for what you said about white indentity, the truth be told there isnt just one single identity for blacks. If there was then I don't think we would have difficulty pinning it down. Fuck, were one of the most diverse people in this country and in the world. The problem starts to arise when we try to start defining how other blacks should behave or live. For you to suggest one "identity" to define how 40 million people should live and what they should believe is fucking ridiculous, and this is where we drop the ball. Blacks come from all walks of life, social class,region and religion. The sooner that we can accept the better.

This difference with these other groups being intolerant...ive never heard one of these groups tell others that they don't belong to that group because of their lifestyle. It just doesn't happen as much as it does within the black community. Choice of recreation, sport, music, style of dress no other group attacks it's memebers like black americans when it comes to these things.

Do you read your own responses?

One answer is "backwards is backwards" and it doesnt matter what other groups do it, then the answers after those are that Blacks are the only ones to do it.

Which one is it?

I never said that the practices aren't backwards. I said that it's normal for the world we live in. If you do thinks your Muslim or Indian family doesn't like. They may kill you. Your Black family may just make fun of you, which is a hell of a lot less of a consequence. You may just have to grow some thicker skin.

Blacks have never and have never been the only group to ostracize people for being different, like I said. Even you seem to agree with me half of the time and then disagree completely the other half of the time.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
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