The official ** KEVIN SAMUELS ** discussion thread

[A to Dah K]

I'm reading your words and seeing how you specified "certain" men but didn't use that same word for the women.

I said what i said

 

[killagram]

'65 to '80

That's why I be fuckin hoes that was born in 1965...56 years old and shit...I'm 42...brah

 

[4 Dimensional]

From 45 right on down i would say the majority of black women embrace the music. Other races embraces it as well, i couldnt give u a percentage cause i never really paid attention. Hoe culture is now a thing, yes it is.

Good point on other cultures embracing it as well. Definitely not as exclusive as it used to be.

Mainstream hoe culture is being marketed pretty hard.

 

[4 Dimensional]

That's why I be fuckin hoes that was born in 1965...56 years old and shit...I'm 42...brah

Smashing chicks that weren't born with Civil Rights.

 

[killagram]

Smashing chicks that weren't born with Civil Rights.

Fuckin with me...I take they rights anyways....I ain't a nice MAYNE... Kinsfolk

 

[A to Dah K]

Good point on other cultures embracing it as well. Definitely not as exclusive as it used to be.

Mainstream hoe culture is being marketed pretty hard.

“Urban”culture has become popular culture and hoe culture a subculture of that. Like i said women of other culture are embracing as well, to an extent.
Just look at the kardashian
Larsa pippen
Etc etc
Who they hoeing with? Rappers & athletes.
Look at 50 something yr old
Larsa Pippen fucking with the “king of the steets” himself
Future vandross.

 

[respiration]

Certain aspects of Hip-hop have objectified and degraded women. Until it's brought to my attention and otherwise stated, I don't think no other genre of music does it to the same level.

So to clarify my question, does this distinct aspect of hip-hop have an adverse effect on how women behave? Or did it enhance behavior that may have already be present?

I'm not saying hip-hop caused a particular thing. I just speaking more on influences on women.

28 years ago, I remember discussing with my best friend how I felt that 400 years of slavery, lynchings and Jim Crow had to have some adverse psychological effects that passed down through the generations to the present day. Therefore, we needed to explore the idea of therapy for that trauma. In short, my theory is:
1. Unless there is something in your journey that directs you otherwise, if you are born Black in this country you will inwardly view yourself as inferior.
2. Unless there is something in your journey that directs you otherwise, if you are born white in this country you will inwardly view yourself as superior.

To your question:
There is no universal or collective "way that women behave." Different women behave all kinds of ways, as do men. I believe that the depictions of Black men and Black women in those kinds of songs could have an adverse affect on the socialization of both sexes in different ways. For young people listening to the shit, it could promote either sex to see themselves as less than what they are. The gender difference is in the messaging first. Though one could point out anomalies like Adina Howard or I'll add Trina to the list even, rap has always been a male dominated industry. As such there are more songs degrading women coming from men than there are self degrading songs by women. Secondly, it's not positive to keep holding up the image of Black men as thugs, killers, drug dealers, and reckless fuckers of countless women as being something positive (while condemning women who have lots of sex partners as "hoes"). As men, we are supposed to be leaders. We should be providing examples of leadership that's gonna protect our generations, direct us to freedom from oppression and improve the whole tribe's overall quality of life. Hopefully good parenting trumps the negative messaging in music.

If I see a woman recklessly sleeping with a lot of dudes, I don't see a "hoe". I see a hurt woman manifesting undealt with trauma in an unhealthy way. If I see a dude beating on women, I see a hurt man manifesting undealt with trauma in an unhealthy way. Both are dysfunctional behaviors.

To some degree I see all of this as connected to the way that some of us can't shake the N-Word from our vocab, in spite of the scores of ancestors who were abused, stolen, deprived, enslaved and murdered in the name of it. What I was looking for 28 years ago is what Dr. Joy DeGruy calls Post-Traumatic Slave Syndrome. I believe that applies to women referring to themselves and each other as "bitch" and "hoe" as it applies to us calling ourselves a "real nigga". Using these late-in-the-evolutionary-ladder-white men's terms to describe original people. This is the Slave Syndrome personified. Self hatred.

 

[respiration]

What?

That's hilarious to me.

However, I can't really disagree with much she said in the video. I think there are aspects that could be discussed more deeply because mental health is a thing. But solid points made in the video.

Hey man, it was her claim to fame! I'll check out what the brotha posted. Also, I met her in person back in the day She was fine as hell.

 

[A to Dah K]

28 years ago, I remember discussing with my best friend how I felt that 400 years of slavery, lynchings and Jim Crow had to have some adverse psychological effects that passed down through the generations to the present day. Therefore, we needed to explore the idea of therapy for that trauma. In short, my theory is:
1. Unless there is something in your journey that directs you otherwise, if you are born Black in this country you will inwardly view yourself as inferior.
2. Unless there is something in your journey that directs you otherwise, if you are born white in this country you will inwardly view yourself as superior.

To your question:
There is no universal or collective "way that women behave." Different women behave all kinds of ways, as do men. I believe that the depictions of Black men and Black women in those kinds of songs could have an adverse affect on the socialization of both sexes in different ways. For young people listening to the shit, it could promote either sex to see themselves as less than what they are. The gender difference is in the messaging first. Though one could point out anomalies like Adina Howard or I'll add Trina to the list even, rap has always been a male dominated industry. As such there are more songs degrading women coming from men than there are self degrading songs by women. Secondly, it's not positive to keep holding up the image of Black men as thugs, killers, drug dealers, and reckless fuckers of countless women as being something positive (while condemning women who have lots of sex partners as "hoes"). As men, we are supposed to be leaders. We should be providing examples of leadership that's gonna protect our generations, direct us to freedom from oppression and improve the whole tribe's overall quality of life. Hopefully good parenting trumps the negative messaging in music.

If I see a woman recklessly sleeping with a lot of dudes, I don't see a "hoe". I see a hurt woman manifesting undealt with trauma in an unhealthy way. If I see a dude beating on women, I see a hurt man manifesting undealt with trauma in an unhealthy way. Both are dysfunctional behaviors.

To some degree I see all of this as connected to the way that some of us can't shake the N-Word from our vocab, in spite of the scores of ancestors who were abused, stolen, deprived, enslaved and murdered in the name of it. What I was looking for 28 years ago is what Dr. Joy DeGruy calls Post-Traumatic Slave Syndrome. I believe that applies to women referring to themselves and each other as "bitch" and "hoe" as it applies to us calling ourselves a "real nigga". Using these late-in-the-evolutionary-ladder-white men's terms to describe original people. This is the Slave Syndrome personified. Self hatred.

Are you 50 or older?

 

[respiration]

I said what i said

Indeed.

 

[respiration]

Are you 50 or older?

Yep.

 

[killagram]

28 years ago, I remember discussing with my best friend how I felt that 400 years of slavery, lynchings and Jim Crow had to have some adverse psychological effects that passed down through the generations to the present day. Therefore, we needed to explore the idea of therapy for that trauma. In short, my theory is:
1. Unless there is something in your journey that directs you otherwise, if you are born Black in this country you will inwardly view yourself as inferior.
2. Unless there is something in your journey that directs you otherwise, if you are born white in this country you will inwardly view yourself as superior.

To your question:
There is no universal or collective "way that women behave." Different women behave all kinds of ways, as do men. I believe that the depictions of Black men and Black women in those kinds of songs could have an adverse affect on the socialization of both sexes in different ways. For young people listening to the shit, it could promote either sex to see themselves as less than what they are. The gender difference is in the messaging first. Though one could point out anomalies like Adina Howard or I'll add Trina to the list even, rap has always been a male dominated industry. As such there are more songs degrading women coming from men than there are self degrading songs by women. Secondly, it's not positive to keep holding up the image of Black men as thugs, killers, drug dealers, and reckless fuckers of countless women as being something positive (while condemning women who have lots of sex partners as "hoes"). As men, we are supposed to be leaders. We should be providing examples of leadership that's gonna protect our generations, direct us to freedom from oppression and improve the whole tribe's overall quality of life. Hopefully good parenting trumps the negative messaging in music.

If I see a woman recklessly sleeping with a lot of dudes, I don't see a "hoe". I see a hurt woman manifesting undealt with trauma in an unhealthy way. If I see a dude beating on women, I see a hurt man manifesting undealt with trauma in an unhealthy way. Both are dysfunctional behaviors.

To some degree I see all of this as connected to the way that some of us can't shake the N-Word from our vocab, in spite of the scores of ancestors who were abused, stolen, deprived, enslaved and murdered in the name of it. What I was looking for 28 years ago is what Dr. Joy DeGruy calls Post-Traumatic Slave Syndrome. I believe that applies to women referring to themselves and each other as "bitch" and "hoe" as it applies to us calling ourselves a "real nigga". Using these late-in-the-evolutionary-ladder-white men's terms to describe original people. This is the Slave Syndrome personified. Self hatred.

Brah...we can't save these "hurt" hoes...hit her...forget her... let the "hurt" hoe go...so the next Joe can get her....I'm really about this playa shit... Kinsfolk

 

[A to Dah K]

Yep.

I can tell, bruh
Im not saying this in a disrespectful way,but you are out of touch with modern women.

 

[respiration]

It is now

Not at all. Maybe the ones you run personally across in your age group.

 

[A to Dah K]

Not at all. Maybe the ones you run personally across in your age group.

Ight bruh, im gone head out now.

 

[respiration]

That's why I be fuckin hoes that was born in 1965...56 years old and shit...I'm 42...brah

I've dealt with women in that age group that are sexy as fuck. Look good like that chick Ro from those Kountry Wayne skits.

 

[respiration]

@A to Dah K @ANGRY MAN @Mad Genius @4 Dimensional @killagram @Quek9 @xxxbishopxxx
Agree or disagree. Thanks for the good convo and dialogue. It's good soul food.

 

[respiration]

I can tell, bruh
Im not saying this in a disrespectful way,but you are out of touch with modern women.

Not at all, my brother. Like KS said in the original, "your average at best" video. The younguns come at us too.

 

[4 Dimensional]

28 years ago, I remember discussing with my best friend how I felt that 400 years of slavery, lynchings and Jim Crow had to have some adverse psychological effects that passed down through the generations to the present day. Therefore, we needed to explore the idea of therapy for that trauma. In short, my theory is:
1. Unless there is something in your journey that directs you otherwise, if you are born Black in this country you will inwardly view yourself as inferior.
2. Unless there is something in your journey that directs you otherwise, if you are born white in this country you will inwardly view yourself as superior.

To your question:
There is no universal or collective "way that women behave." Different women behave all kinds of ways, as do men. I believe that the depictions of Black men and Black women in those kinds of songs could have an adverse affect on the socialization of both sexes in different ways. For young people listening to the shit, it could promote either sex to see themselves as less than what they are. The gender difference is in the messaging first. Though one could point out anomalies like Adina Howard or I'll add Trina to the list even, rap has always been a male dominated industry. As such there are more songs degrading women coming from men than there are self degrading songs by women. Secondly, it's not positive to keep holding up the image of Black men as thugs, killers, drug dealers, and reckless fuckers of countless women as being something positive (while condemning women who have lots of sex partners as "hoes"). As men, we are supposed to be leaders. We should be providing examples of leadership that's gonna protect our generations, direct us to freedom from oppression and improve the whole tribe's overall quality of life. Hopefully good parenting trumps the negative messaging in music.

If I see a woman recklessly sleeping with a lot of dudes, I don't see a "hoe". I see a hurt woman manifesting undealt with trauma in an unhealthy way. If I see a dude beating on women, I see a hurt man manifesting undealt with trauma in an unhealthy way. Both are dysfunctional behaviors.

To some degree I see all of this as connected to the way that some of us can't shake the N-Word from our vocab, in spite of the scores of ancestors who were abused, stolen, deprived, enslaved and murdered in the name of it. What I was looking for 28 years ago is what Dr. Joy DeGruy calls Post-Traumatic Slave Syndrome. I believe that applies to women referring to themselves and each other as "bitch" and "hoe" as it applies to us calling ourselves a "real nigga". Using these late-in-the-evolutionary-ladder-white men's terms to describe original people. This is the Slave Syndrome personified. Self hatred.

Damn, sir. You come from a different generation of thinking. Those wise men I have learned from through most of my life.

I can't really reach that level of empathy, though. That's a personality trait of caring for people. I recognize hurt people as well, but empathy is not a natural trait of mine regardless of race.

No arguments from me and thanks for answering.

 

[A to Dah K]

Damn, sir. You come from a different generation of thinking. Those wise men I have learned from through most of my life.

I can't really reach that level of empathy, though. That's a personality trait of caring for people. I recognize hurt people as well, but empathy is not a natural trait of mine regardless of race.

No arguments from me and thanks for answering.

Yea i knew bruh was from a whole diff generation after that one.

 

[4 Dimensional]

Yea i knew bruh was from a whole diff generation after that one.

Yeah, I can't argue against that at all.

I recognize how experience and time periods shapes thinking, and my 50 and older brethren understand things way differently than me. Life was different, the thinking was different, saw the world change faster than I have seen it.

I just absorb their information. I've met some +50-year-old idiots, but brother @respiration ain't that by a long shot.

 

[respiration]

Damn, sir. You come from a different generation of thinking. Those wise men I have learned from through most of my life.

I can't really reach that level of empathy, though. That's a personality trait of caring for people. I recognize hurt people as well, but empathy is not a natural trait of mine regardless of race.

No arguments from me and thanks for answering.

Thank you.

Much respect for you, brother.

You have powerful intellect and insight and still live your life as a student. I commend you for those things.

I credit the Creator and my parents with teaching me empathy- particularly towards my people. It's not a popular word in these cold BGOL streets, unfortunately.
I still believe in the potential for greatness in all of my brothers, regardless.

 

[Duece]

 

[4 Dimensional]

Thank you.

Much respect for you, brother.

You have powerful intellect and insight and still live your life as a student. I commend you for those things.

I credit the Creator and my parents with teaching me empathy- particularly towards my people. It's not a popular word in these cold BGOL streets, unfortunately.
I still believe in the potential for greatness in all of my brothers, regardless.

Damn, and your optimistic. Lol.

Empathy is extremely difficult for those that doesn’t have it. It’s necessary though, especially for people that you love.

It helps see the world more deeply.

 

[killagram]

Damn, sir. You come from a different generation of thinking. Those wise men I have learned from through most of my life.

I can't really reach that level of empathy, though. That's a personality trait of caring for people. I recognize hurt people as well, but empathy is not a natural trait of mine regardless of race.

No arguments from me and thanks for answering.

I just want some good pussy....and head...I don't care bout nuttin else...brah

 

[killagram]

Dude tripping....A MAYNE of means...has always been a validator of Any woman's worth... Hell what the fuck is that coon talking bout... brah?

 

[respiration]

Last but least take KS out and reference
Shahrazad Ali

When I was in college, she was popular. I read three of her books. I decided to go on and watch the video you posted. It was good. She made some great points that hit home, for sure. Me being older now hearing her words, they resonate with experiences I've had with women in the course of my life.

I don't really equate her with KS though. Yes, Shahrazad was direct and to the point with women, but it was never harsh or rude. I could hear the love for Black women in her words. Also, even though she was criticizing negative tendencies in women, she also provided comprehensive solutions, so the critique was constructive. Lastly, many times in that speech she held brothas accountable for when we fuck up. That's balance. Even in a speech that was a critique of sistas, she never held up Black men as blameless princes. KS might admire her but his getdown is way different in these ways.

Like I said, back in the day I disagreed with her advising brothas to slap their women in the mouth if they gets reckless at the tongue in her book, "The Black Man's Guide to Understanding the Black Woman". I'm still against that. But hearing her now, a lot of the other stuff she was advising women on back then in the day hits differently in 2021.

It should be worth noting that she wrote, "The Black Woman's Guide to Understanding the Black Man", which turned out to be a pretty good read too. Maybe I'll reread both.

 

[ANGRY MAN]

Brah...we can't save these "hurt" hoes...hit her...forget her... let the "hurt" hoe go...so the next Joe can get her....I'm really about this playa shit... Kinsfolk

 

[4 Dimensional]

He also gave us

 

[Tiger_Hood]

Shot Fired!

 

[ANGRY MAN]

@A to Dah K @ANGRY MAN @Mad Genius @4 Dimensional @killagram @Quek9 @xxxbishopxxx
Agree or disagree. Thanks for the good convo and dialogue. It's good soul food.

We agree on some points excellent convo. I can hold men accountable but those type of men get left and can’t keep up. For instance you hustle drugs or get caught with a gun charge.(Big Meech) Equals a felony which will make it hard to get a great job or be lock up. Therefore they get left behind for there mistakes in life. Some of these men are son husbands can’t change a tire. Can’t book an airplane ticket etc etc

Earlier someone posted KS going in on a man for living with his parents. Stating If your parents die today can you afford the house. He said no KS told the man don’t over talk me. The man even apologized in the video. But I don’t hear you addressing KS disrespecting the young man saying there’s women that live at home too.

As far as surrounding yourself with great people. When you great your going to attract all types of people. The predators can see you as well as good people. Your a target on a daily basis. MLK/JFK/Malcom X was all great people but they became targets eventually.

As far as women I’ll take Michelle Obama over Meagan The Stallion any day. These women are getting out of hand brother. Fake eye lashes, twerking all day on IG, weaves.. the behavior is becoming unacceptable. These IG thots are getting paid to be reckless.. If those type of women lost their followers tomorrow. They wouldn’t be able to function in life.Imagine Cardi B home for Thanksgiving.

I’ve seen men get lock up and be on the back of a trash truck the following week.

Bottom line women stood beside each other for equal pay and rights. Even stood beside each other for the slut walk. Us men are standing beside each other not settling for women who made bad choices in life don’t put your woes on me.

 

[tallblacknyc]

Certain aspects of Hip-hop have objectified and degraded women. Until it's brought to my attention and otherwise stated, I don't think no other genre of music does it to the same level.

So to clarify my question, does this distinct aspect of hip-hop have an adverse effect on how women behave? Or did it enhance behavior that may have already be present?

I'm not saying hip-hop caused a particular thing. I just speaking more on influences on women.

There’s latin songs dedicated to calling women freaks, whores, etc and chicks enjoy it.. there’s literally a song called “the hoes” that’s in Dominican ..I don’t know how to spell the Dominican interpretation.. for yrssss whenever you go to the Dominican day parade in nyc dudes would be out there with drums and other instruments and go up to girls and start playing “the hoes” song and chicks would start dancing to it.. it’s a very popular song spread through generations

 

[respiration]

We agree on some points excellent convo. I can hold men accountable but those type of men get left and can’t keep up. For instance you hustle drugs or get caught with a gun charge.(Big Meech) Equals a felony which will make it hard to get a great job or be lock up. Therefore they get left behind for there mistakes in life. Some of these men are son husbands can’t change a tire. Can’t book an airplane ticket etc etc

Earlier someone posted KS going in on a man for living with his parents. Stating If your parents die today can you afford the house. He said no KS told the man don’t over talk me. The man even apologized in the video. But I don’t hear you addressing KS disrespecting the young man saying there’s women that live at home too.

As far as surrounding yourself with great people. When you great your going to attract all types of people. The predators can see you as well as good people. Your a target on a daily basis. MLK/JFK/Malcom X was all great people but they became targets eventually.

As far as women I’ll take Michelle Obama over Meagan The Stallion any day. These women are getting out of hand brother. Fake eye lashes, twerking all day on IG, weaves.. the behavior is becoming unacceptable. These IG thots are getting paid to be reckless.. If those type of women lost their followers tomorrow. They wouldn’t be able to function in life.Imagine Cardi B home for Thanksgiving.

I’ve seen men get lock up and be on the back of a trash truck the following week.

Bottom line women stood beside each other for equal pay and rights. Even stood beside each other for the slut walk. Us men are standing beside each other not settling for women who made bad choices in life don’t put your woes on me.

Sure we do agree on some things.

You may not have heard me addressing KS disrespecting that young man, but it doesn't mean I thought it was ok. I wasn't diggin' how he was speaking to the bro either. My dislike of open disrespect goes both ways.

Women did stand beside each other for equal pay and rights. White women. By and large the examples you provided were women standing up against white patriarchy. Black women? They stood up for us and with us when police were murdering us in the streets in the 60s with the Panthers. They stood up with us at the same time with Dr. King to end legal segregation and with SNCC getting us voting rights. They also stood up FOR us in recent years, because they were tired of seeing us getting killed by cops and not getting justice.

I just don't believe in piling a bunch of stereotypes onto my own people. A few years ago this willfully dumb sista I know who had never posted anything addressing the police violence against us said some dumbshit on FB. She was trying to justify this stupid self hating notion that "if we act right" white cops won't have an excuse to kill us. Then she goes on to list all the shit she says we do: kill each other, rob each other, selling and using drugs, posting shit on worldstar, sagging our pants, calling each other the N-word...yadda yadda. No mention of the faults of the whites. My opening statement to her in the comments section was to ask her who she's killed, robbed, sold drugs to, etc. Then I publicly eviscerated her on her page...her, her husband who tried to come to her aid and 2 cousins lol. I'm just not into going through a list of stereotypes of Black folks be they men, women, children, whoever in order to show disdain for my own.

...Also sometimes the fake eyelashes look kinda sexy to me on some chicks...when they're not thick as demon bat wings.

...Also, again thanks for sharing the Shahrazad Ali clip.

...Also, no complaints from me about them twerking on IG.

That is all. Peace.

 

[Famous1]

LOL I'm not upset about Kevin Samuels in the least. I am saying that it's weird though that you'd bring up Black women allegedly tearing men down in songs, but ignore all the songs Black men made shitting on Black women. It was especially odd that you'd mention Kelis' "Milkshake." I'm trying to see where that shits on men...lol. Good for the brotha that you're caping for. Glad he's trying to gain control of his life as best he can.'It's still weak if he's suggesting Cardi B songs are responsible for his non-success with women. Maybe he either needs to dig himself or associate himself with a more mature class of women.

Yeah I'm in this thread. Having a conversation just like you. Just like Android heads come up into threads with new Apple products to find fault with them.

We may come from the same generation...maybe. I remember girls having a preference for light skinned guys- with that whitewashed ass mindset. I also remember brothers having the same preference for girls. This was a Black thing not specific to men or women. I've known, befriended, dated, made love to and still know a good deal of drop-dead gorgeous dark chocolate women, who developed a low self esteem for being stupidly diminished by other Black folks for being dark. One of my good guy friends who is dark-skinned went through what you're talking about you went through too. At the end of the day, the enemy is not Black women nor Black men, it is the whites who instituted this division in the first place through the global system of white supremacy.

Why meet a woman and before you even know her tell her she needs to workout? If she's not what you're looking for, keep it moving. If you don't want a woman with kids, don't be with one. That simple. If she's your woman and she put on some pounds since you got together, there's a way to approach the subject with her whereas she'll happy to workout and you can be her encouragement and maybe her workout partner.

Men and women have their own unique set of issues. While I see you on divorce and child support issues we've dealt with, I'm also able to put on my glasses and have seen women who were victims of stalkers. I've known women who felt trapped in abusive relationships. I known women who were with men who suddenly flipped and started beating the shit out of them. I remember 4 years ago, one fine as fuck sista who was an entrepreneur, intelligent, talented, personable and down to earth with no kids and was intrigued by me. I was just getting to know her and we'd just set up a first date via DM, when her ex coming to collect his shit from the apartment they used to share went off on her and beat the shit out of her, putting her in the hospital. Literally in the middle of DM'ing me. First time she'd ever been beaten up by a dude. Our convo literally ceased suddenly for 3 hours, then I get photos of her in the hospital with her injuries. We still got together when her body healed up some. But we could only proceed so far with our association because the incident fucked with her mind made her paranoid of men. I've known many women who were raising kids on their own with their ex boyfriends or ex husbands not contributing a dime to their own kids, and the mothers HAD to take them to court to get them to fulfill their responsibilities as men.

The door swings both ways, my brother. We have things hard. Women have things hard. What a selfish asshole I'd be if I wanted sympathy from Black women for the real shit I go through as a Black man, if I don't have empathy for the real shit Black women go through.

Do you date single mothers?
How many kids do you have?

 

[respiration]

Do you date single mothers?
How many kids do you have?

I have no kids.
Yeah. I never had a problem with dating single mothers.
I date single mothers and single women without kids.