The Official Cavs vs. Magic thread

[tp2001]

west was 5-11. i dont really call that struggling. and the point is most of those looks werent catch and shoot. if you watched that game you know he created. especially in the fourth, he held his own getting the shots he wanted. (not to mention again his defense on turkey was great). williams is another story, but even he has hit big three's. your superstar taking all those shots and missing all those fts has to be held accountable. nobody has said shyt about last game with cleveland being up by double digits, and the magic making their run on them while bron was in the game, but that's because he hit the game winner, so now when they do the same shyt (i.e. hold it down with him on the bench) and when he's brought in to close he doesnt do it, he's got to get some of that blame.

its a high risk-high reward game.

doesn't work that way bruh...even with LBJ hitting basically two jumpers all game, he still got 40+ WITH 9 assists. I do fault him for missing free throws down the stretch though...Like I said earlier, he is still ending up running the offense more than he should...Problem is, that's his game.

The Cavs were successful because those players were hitting shots. Now that they aren't they have to rely on him (just like two years ago) to make the shots...If that happens, I don't care how good he does...It still would be tough for the Cavs to win.

 

[Desert Eagle]

oh ya'll been quiet let me guess you got the cavs in 6 now since the sweep aint going to happen and neither is 4-1!! or maybe cavs in 7

You said It not me...

I am your conscience.

 

[Spectrum]

Meh...

It's all about winning and losing; scoring and missing.

If Kobe scores 50 tomorrow, and they win by 1, they will say he willed his team to a victory. If he scores 50, and they lose, he hogged the ball, and should have gotten his teammates involved.

Let's be honest here. Let's not talk about what "they" will say. Give an honest critique based on what YOU know about the game.

Ball-hogging is ball-hogging whether you win or lose. "Chucking" is chucking whether you win or lose. You can't be chucking when you are shooting 55 percent. Point blank. YOU KNOW THAT.

If Jordan would have missed that switch-hands-in-the-air lay-up against the Lakers, it would have been considered a forced/bad shot. He hit the shot, and it's now considered one of the greatest play-off highlights in history.

You do know why he switched hands right? Sam Perkins was known to get his long as arms on balls from behind. Jordan thought Perkins was coming from behind. He probably could have just dunked it though.

Kobe's "over-shooting" is called being aggressive when they in down, and they win. Him starting games out by trying to get his teammates involved is considered passive when they lose.

I've never heard that from any intelligent critique of his game. Kobe was always criticized for shooting so early and often in the game that his teammates could never get involved in the offense. Thus, they would be cold. Then stans would get made when a player who hasn't had a field goal attempt in two quarters misses an open look. Also, Kobe has been criticized, even by his own coaching staff, of not running the triangle offense the way it was designed to run... not so much this year.. but in the past..yes.

Winning cures everything. It's such a strong influence on how people perceive things, no one remembers, or care to talk about, any of Michael Jordan's off the court short-comings. Without those six rings, Michael Jordan would be considered a ball-hogging, gambling, adulterer, who lusted after blonde haired and blue eyed women.

Jordan was a career 50 percent shooter.. you can't be a chucker when you are shooting 50 percent from the field. Plus.. I hate using IFs...Jordan has 6 rings and he was the face of the league that helped propel the game to international fame... and he lived up to it on the court..point blank.. I could really care less about all his off the court antics actually....

 

[Spectrum]

doesn't work that way bruh...even with LBJ hitting basically two jumpers all game, he still got 40+ WITH 9 assists. I do fault him for missing free throws down the stretch though...Like I said earlier, he is still ending up running the offense more than he should...Problem is, that's his game.

The Cavs were successful because those players were hitting shots. Now that they aren't they have to rely on him (just like two years ago) to make the shots...If that happens, I don't care how good he does...It still would be tough for the Cavs to win.

Ok.. I'm out for real.. tp2001... hold it down

 

[Jazzy1]

Lebron is doing what Ai was in his prime basically dominating the ball and forcing his less talented teammates to stand around from the occasional drive from west or pull up by Williams.

Lebron needs to get with a great coach and another great player asap or he'll ruin his best years becoming more and more undsiciplined and too accustomed to dominating the ball on every possesion.

MJ did the same thing when Collins was his coach in Chicago, had MJ dominating the ball on every possesion and never let others set the offense when Phil Jackson took over he convinced MJ to get his ass off the ball let Pippen set things up and play a strictly scorer role. Under jackson Mj's assist numbers dipped but his effectiveness when way up.

Lebron is gonna need his assist numbers to drop get off the ball some and work in certain areas on the floor or he's gonna have a career frustrated with ill built teams where he has to do all the ball handiling and eventually the physical toll will be too much and he's gonna start getting hurt.

Kobe doesn't have to set everyone up in the Lakers offense because Pau or Lamar Odom can intitate. He just has to be the scorer in their offense most times.

 

[tp2001]

Meh...

It's all about winning and losing; scoring and missing.

If Kobe scores 50 tomorrow, and they win by 1, they will say he willed his team to a victory. If he scores 50, and they lose, he hogged the ball, and should have gotten his teammates involved.

If Jordan would have missed that switch-hands-in-the-air lay-up against the Lakers, it would have been considered a forced/bad shot. He hit the shot, and it's now considered one of the greatest play-off highlights in history.

Kobe's "over-shooting" is called being aggressive when they go in, and they win. Him starting games out by trying to get his teammates involved is considered passive when they lose.

Winning cures everything. It's such a strong influence on how people perceive things, no one remembers, or care to talk about, any of Michael Jordan's off the court short-comings. Without those six rings, Michael Jordan would be considered a ball-hogging, gambling, adulterer, who lusted after blond haired, blue eyed, white women.

Even winning doesn't cure all ills...There will be some that can still see some faults in one's game. Some may say that they just want to see better out of them, but the more popular term they receive for that is "hater"

And what are you talking about regarding Michael Jordan...He WAS/IS a gambler, adulterer, who (probably) still lusts after blond haired, blue eyed white women

 

[wantyme]

doesn't work that way bruh...even with LBJ hitting basically two jumpers all game, he still got 40+ WITH 9 assists. I do fault him for missing free throws down the stretch though...Like I said earlier, he is still ending up running the offense more than he should...Problem is, that's his game.

The Cavs were successful because those players were hitting shots. Now that they aren't they have to rely on him (just like two years ago) to make the shots...If that happens, I don't care how good he does...It still would be tough for the Cavs to win.

lemme put it in the most simple of terms. in the fourth quarter the cavs had the ball down 4 and their leader had hit one jumper the whole game, missed 3 fts in that quarter, went on to miss two more and hit one more jumper, ending up 11-28. he did not have a consistant game. im not really a big stat guy and i give him much credit for getting to the line because i know when your jumper aint on, youve got to manufacture points, but he underperformed from the ft line too down the stretch. of all these variables, youve got to put some of that loss on him. he just said last night he wanted to be regarded as one of the best closers. that list isnt only a home list, its on the road too.

 

[pookie]

nah man. Regular season don't mean -ish. They were having fun and alot of teams were just in awe of Bron. Go to their team site and look @ the stats.

It was all Bron. Shoot the Lakers would have posted a better record had Bynum not went down.

They should have pulled the trigger on that Jamison deal. It would have at least given Bron an upgrade in the post capable of 20/10.

The Cavs are built around Bron with weak parts

Look @ all the remaining teams

Lakers
built around - Kobe but he has Gasol, Odom and Bynum

Nuggets
built around - Melo but he has Billups, KMart, JRSmith and Nene. Only thing is KMart and JRSmith have the bball IQ of a raisin

Magic
built around DHoward but he has RLewis......, well they're only here because KG was hurt

Cavs
built around Bron but he has MoWilliams ................. see what I mean??

don't say DWest and Big Z, playing next to Bron will make you look like phenominal.

Man your argument is laughable
Odom is inconsistent and BYNUM
KMart, JRSmith and NEne

Mo Williams has been holding it down all season long and because he played bad THIS ONE GAME all of a sudden he is garbage GTFOH. Like i said yall can get out of here with all that talk and the team yall talking about had the best record in the league and only loss twice, really only once, at home

 

[Spectrum]

Lebron is doing what Ai was in his prime basically dominating the ball and forcing his less talented teammates to stand around from the occasional drive from west or pull up by Williams.

Take your dumbass to bed comparing AI to fucking Lebron James... James averaged 28-8-7 this season and was in the running for the defensive player of the year and the best all around player in the game who can beat you scoring, passing, and rebounding.

AI was always been a one dimensional chucker.

 

[thundercat]

Or maybe he should make his teammates better.

Your turn.

Man, he cant make 6'2 combo guards better when they're being defended and asked to defend 6'10 players that are just as quick as they are....not unless he's gonna pull out a magic wand and make them grow 6 inches. Bad match-ups man. Sometimes it is what it is. West & Williams aren't scoring like they were in rd 1 & 2 because their shots are being contested by taller players. How can Lebron make that better? You can throw that cliche' shit out as much as you want, but that doesn't change facts. Size is winning.

Did you see West out there picking up those quick fouls trying to keep up with Hedo? It was like some 8 year old kid trying to guard his dad. Pathetic. You cant make that better....unless you're a general manager

 

[tp2001]

Ok.. I'm out for real.. tp2001... hold it down

I got ya, bruh *gives daps*

 

[Spectrum]

Man, he cant make 6'2 combo guards better when they're being defended and asked to defend 6'10 players that are just as quick as they are....not unless he's gonna pull out a magic wand and make them grow 6 inches. Bad match-ups man. Sometimes it is what it is. West & Williams aren't scoring like they were in rd 1 & 2 because their shots are being contested by taller players. How can Lebron make that better? You can throw that cliche' shit out as much as you want, but that doesn't change facts. Size is winning.

Did you see West out there picking up those quick fouls trying to keep up with Hedo? It was like some 8 year old kid trying to guard his dad. Pathetic. You cant make that better....unless you're a general manager

Hedo has like 6 inches on West... the matchup problems aren't going anywhere... Magic have been causing problems for the Cavs over the last 3 seasons. Basketball is a game of matchups and this simply is a horrible matchup for the Cavs and their coaching staff doesn't seem to have any way to remedy it.

 

[Spectrum]

I got ya, bruh *gives daps*

alright man.. I'm out for real this time... had to leave a couple more responses

 

[pookie]

lemme put it in the most simple of terms. in the fourth quarter the cavs had the ball down 4 and their leader had hit one jumper the whole game, missed 3 fts in that quarter, went on to miss two more and hit one more jumper, ending up 11-28. he did not have a consistant game. im not really a big stat guy and i give him much credit for getting to the line because i know when your jumper aint on, youve got to manufacture points, but he underperformed from the ft line too down the stretch. of all these variables, youve got to put some of that loss on him. he just said last night he wanted to be regarded as one of the best closers. that list isnt only a home list, its on the road too.

Thank you, cats in here acting like they didn't even watch the game, Lebron was 11-28 tonight, this is what these last 3-4 pages are about, so how is that 55%, like i said earlier the game was close all the way thru so the 4th qtr is the time that the leader of the team was needed to shine. I'm a Lebron fan but got-damn you got cats in here acting like they didn't see the missed jumpshots, free throws and turnovers he committed in the 4th and that all the blame lies on his teammates

 

[Spectrum]

Thank you, cats in here acting like they didn't even watch the game, Lebron was 11-28 tonight, this is what these last 3-4 pages are about, so how is that 55%,

55 percent for the SERIES.

 

[daman200]

Hedo has like 6 inches on West... the matchup problems aren't going anywhere... Magic have been causing problems for the Cavs over the last 3 seasons. Basketball is a game of matchups and this simply is a horrible matchup for the Cavs and their coaching staff doesn't seem to have any way to remedy it.

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh dont tell anyone it really is this simple

 

[tp2001]

lemme put it in the most simple of terms. in the fourth quarter the cavs had the ball down 4 and their leader had hit one jumper the whole game, missed 3 fts in that quarter, went on to miss two more and hit one more jumper, ending up 11-28. he did not have a consistant game. im not really a big stat guy and i give him much credit for getting to the line because i know when your jumper aint on, youve got to manufacture points, but he underperformed from the ft line too down the stretch. of all these variables, youve got to put some of that loss on him. he just said last night he wanted to be regarded as one of the best closers. that list isnt only a home list, its on the road too.

I agree that he had an inconsistent game, but that's just what happens when your team struggles...They have no one else to step up at this point unless Coach Brown changes the lineup...Varejao is as much a liability on the Cavs' offense as Nash is to the Suns' defense...They need to get Pav, Wally, or Gibson out there more or they're toast.

 

[pookie]

55 percent for the SERIES.

If they win tonight, like they managed to do the other night, these last few "he has no help" pages aren't here, so like i said the responses are about THIS GAME and THIS GAME 11-28 doesn't equal 55%

 

[blooo]

Man your argument is laughable
Odom is inconsistent and BYNUM
KMart, JRSmith and NEne

Mo Williams has been holding it down all season long and because he played bad THIS ONE GAME all of a sudden he is garbage GTFOH. Like i said yall can get out of here with all that talk and the team yall talking about had the best record in the league and only loss twice, really only once, at home

One Game ??? what series have you been watching ??? Mo williams hasn;t done shit this series.

 

[Spectrum]

If they win tonight, like they managed to do the other night, these last few "he has no help" pages aren't here, so like i said the responses are about THIS GAME and THIS GAME 11-28 doesn't equal 55%

My argument has never been that he doesn't have help. The argument was about whether he is shooting too much. Shooting volume, whether it is too high or low, is contingent on a player's field goal percentage for his position. Lebron is shooting 55 percent during this series. He's not overshooting. He shot was flat today because he's needed to do too much.

In terms of the "he has no help" argument. That's not MY argument is as well.

However, clearly, the Cavs need another dependable scoring who can get his own shot off and get to the basketball. West and Williams struggle against teams like the Cavs that on the offensive end spread the floor out and the defensive end have the length to contest their jumpers.

I've been saying it all year.. even before the season started and even while they were winning..that this team, in my opinion, was still a player away because they are too dependent on ONE player.

The lakers won two games in the Houston series where Kobe only scored 14 points..and he wasn't distributing the ball or contributing in other ways.... it just wasn't necessary as other players like ariza, gasol,etc just stepped up..

 

[wantyme]

I agree that he had an inconsistent game, but that's just what happens when your team struggles...They have no one else to step up at this point unless Coach Brown changes the lineup...Varejao is as much a liability on the Cavs' offense as Nash is to the Suns' defense...They need to get Pav, Wally, or Gibson out there more or they're toast.

ok, now that we've acknowledged this wasnt totally every one elses fault and lebron actually holds some of this blame, we can go on to the obvious shyt i been preaching since the first round. cleveland doesnt match up well against these guys and the answers arent really on the bench. you put boobie in, who is he gonna guard? alston and johnson can post him forcing doubles for their jumpshooters, which is all they want/dont care how they get it. wally is too slow for turkey or lewis. pav, maybe. you bring joe smith into the starting lineup, your bench has no one dependable. mike brown knows his hand is short in this series. the only wrinkle he's thrown out was to use the phil jax tactic in game one starting bron on skip to throw off their offense. it actually worked, but they just gave the lead up because later smith wasnt enough to hold their bench down.

anyone with a brain who didnt know prior, saw after game one with bron going 20-30 and taking the L that he is going to have to borrow dwight's superman cape to win this series. they match up with this team like a craig saeger ensamble.

 

[Spectrum]

One Game ??? what series have you been watching ???

Williams hasn't even had ONE good game this entire series...and his offensive struggles only tell a small part of the entire story... he's turning the ball over a lot and he can't guard anyone on the Magic..

 

[pookie]

One Game ??? what series have you been watching ???

Game 1 17 pts 5 assists 5 rebounds 1 turnover
Game 2 19 pts 5 assists 4 rebounds 3 turnovers

 

[Spectrum]

anyone with a brain who didnt know prior, saw after game one with bron going 20-30 and taking the L that he is going to have to borrow dwight's superman cape to win this series. they match up with this team like a craig saeger ensamble.

Actually, anyone that kept tabs over the last couple of years... even just during the season should have known there would be some problems. And YES... after game one where Lebron went bananas and shoot damn near 70 percent from the field and they still took a L at home should be have opened everyone's eyes... Again... unless his teammates show up OR he puts on the superman cape like he did against the Pistons two years back when they were down 0-2 in the ECF, I can't see how they will win this series.

 

[blooo]

Game 1 17 pts 5 assists 5 rebounds
Game 2 19 pts 5 assists 4 rebounds

How about the shooting percentages ???
Game 1 he was = 6-19 FGA for 17 points
Game 2 he was = 7-21 FGA for 19 points

He taking shots away from Big Z..

 

[tp2001]

One Game ??? what series have you been watching ??? Mo williams hasn't done shit this series.

word

 

[Spectrum]

Game 1 17 pts 5 assists 5 rebounds 1 turnover
Game 2 19 pts 5 assists 4 rebounds 3 turnovers

Be serious. Tell the ENTIRE story of those two games

Like I just said in another response..SHOOTING percentage tells the story

Mo Williams shot 32 percent from the field (13-40) and 21 percent from the 3 point line (3-14)

Now those numbers you posted look like shit because they were..

 

[pookie]

How about the shooting percentages ???

Be serious. Tell the ENTIRE story of those two games

Like I just said in another response..SHOOTING percentage tells the story

Mo Williams shot 32 percent from the field (13-40) and 21 percent from the 3 point line (3-14)

Now those numbers you posted look like shit because they were

Lebron was 11-28 tonight so shooting percentage means what to you??

 

[tp2001]

...after game one with bron going 20-30 and taking the L that he is going to have to borrow dwight's superman cape to win this series. they match up with this team like a craig saeger ensamble.

Exactly...I said that the Magic had the big advantage in the frontcourt after Game 1...And it still holds true here...

Even with Turkoglu going 1-11 they still were able to run their offense. He's like a 2nd PG out with Alston. 2PGs vs basically 0PGs = big trouble for the Cavs.

 

[Acur]

The cavs fans coming through with mad excuses. Waiting for 45years all You have are excuses. 45 years of failing. Its' cool to go finish or vacation out the country when You have won a Championship ie Bulls,Boston,Miami Detroit. I heard someone asked our 3 championships did they know the cavs? They said No, Who the fuck is that?

 

[Spectrum]

Lebron was 11-28 tonight so shooting percentage means what to you??

Didn't your dumbass just say you can't penalize someone for ONE game? Now it's important because that ONE game applies to Lebron though he's shooting 55 percent for the entire series? At least he still managed to shoot 40 percent. Look at Mo William's averages.. lebron's worst game is better than William's bst game.

The two games you showed with Mo Williams where he stunk it up.. Lebron shot over 60 percent combined.

You cats are logically-bankrupt

And what did Mo Williams do again tonight

33 percent from the field on 5-16 shooting That's 32 percent from the field for this entire series and it's not one game dragging him down.. he's shooting consistently bad in EVERY game..not to mention is struggles on the defensive end.

 

[blooo]

Lebron was 11-28 tonight so shooting percentage means what to you??

I'm not even defending lebron, The fact is they lost the 1st game with lebron shooting 66% 20-30, They almost lost the 2nd game with him shooting 12-23, They lost today with him shooting 11-28, Lebron has carried the team and on a bad night still found ways to score to help the team. Mo williams/west can't find ways to help the team ??? .. By the way Mo is Jacking up shots and taking big z out of the offense.

 

[pookie]

Didn't your dumbass just say you can't penalize someone for ONE game? Now it's important because that ONE game applies to Lebron though he's shooting 55 percent for the entire series? At least he still managed to shoot 40 percent. Look at Mo William's averages.. lebron's worst game is better than William's bst game.

The two games you showed with Mo Williams where he stunk it up.. Lebron shot over 60 percent combined.

You cats are logically-bankrupt

I guess you didn't read the last part were i said "what does shooting percentage mean to YOU . Like i said and will keep saying until this game Mo Williams was never a unfit point guard and now all of a sudden he is garbage, yall niggas sound stupid, team with the best record din the league is all of a sudden full of garbage players, where was all this talk when they was sweeping teams, some of the same niggas was praising Mo Williams and BIG Z but NOW...........

 

[tp2001]

Lebron was 11-28 tonight so shooting percentage means what to you??

Nobody is saying that this game wasn't a bad shooting night, but how many of those attempts of LeBron were from driving to the lane? Yes he did make only 2 Js, but he got to the line...

How many times did the other guards get to the line for the Cavs?

 

[Spectrum]

team. Mo williams/west can't find ways to help the team ??? .. By the way Mo is Jacking up shots and taking big z out of the offense.

Exactly.. Williams is shooting early and often and Z is not getting into the offensive scheme EARLY in the game...thus he is going cold. You have to get big men involved in the offense early..