The mirage of the Black middle class

geechiedan said:
no I don't I'm asking you how would the black community have fared under a trump re-election....you can single out obama for all kinds of fucked up shit thats specific to black people but when asked about trump now suddenly its about AMERICA...

nigga please :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: EXPOSED!

HOW. WOULD. THE. BLACK COMMUNITY. HAVE. FAIRED. UNDER. A. RE-ELECTED TRUMP ADMINISTRATION?
Click to expand...

But I shouldn't be able to single out the Obama Administration for "all kinds of fucked up shit." 90% of us voted for him. "All kinds of fucked up shit" shouldn't have been happening to us during his reign.

But as far as Black America under Trump, you can use his first four years as a gauge as to how his second administration would pan out: https://www.vox.com/21524499/what-trump-has-done-for-black-people

But you continually and constantly miss the point! This goes way beyond Trump. We do not fare well under Dem or GOP administrations, in large part due to the PRE-EXISTING SOCIAL INEQUALITY THAT DEFINES OUR EXPERIENCE IN THIS COUNTRY THAT GOES BACK TO SLAVERY AND CAN ONLY BE REMEDIED BY A COMPREHENSIVE REPARATIONS AGENDA THAT NEITHER PARTY CURRENTLY PROMOTES!!!!!!

You either understand this or you do not. You're either for this or you're against it. You obviously do not understand or do not endorse this. So be it. You can hang with the Hotlantans, Dr Truths, Mcguyvers, Mr Mets, veritechs, xxxbishopsxxx, ronms, and whoever else are vocal opponents as well.
 
VAiz4hustlaz said:
But I shouldn't be able to single out the Obama Administration for "all kinds of fucked up shit." 90% of us voted for him. "All kinds of fucked up shit" shouldn't have been happening to us during his reign.
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I never said you shouldn't be able to single out anything but you DON'T single out fucked shit thats happened under republican rule. Also you expect the social inequity thats taken over 400 years to happen to be solved in 8 years because one black man was elected president??? are you seriously saying that??

We do not fare well under Dem or GOP administrations, in large part due to the PRE-EXISTING SOCIAL INEQUALITY THAT DEFINES OUR EXPERIENCE IN THIS COUNTRY THAT GOES BACK TO SLAVERY AND CAN ONLY BE REMEDIED BY A COMPREHENSIVE REPARATIONS AGENDA THAT NEITHER PARTY CURRENTLY PROMOTES!!!!!!
Click to expand...



YOU don't understand theres only TWO PARTY TO DEAL WITH.

I keep asking name a viable 3rd party that blacks should be supporting and I get no answer.

okay heres are easier questions:

BETWEEN THE TWO PARTIES DEMOCRAT AND REPUBLICAN...IN YOUR ESTIMATION WHICH PARTY IS LIKELIER TO ADVANCE THE CAUSE OF REPARATIONS FOR ADOS AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE?

BETWEEN LEFT WING AND RIGHTWING... IN YOUR ESTIMATION WHICH SIDE OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM IS LIKELIER TO ADVANCE THE CAUSE OF REPARATIONS FOR ADOS AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE?

HOW DOES NOT VOTNG FOR THE TOP OF THE TICKET INFLUENCE OR ADVANCE THE CAUSE OF REPARATIONS?

WHAT'S YOUR HONEST ESTIMATION AND TIMELINE FOR GETTING REPARATIONS DONE?? HOW LONG DO YOU THINK IT WILL TAKE?
 
ballscout1 said:
Good read and should lead to a constructive conversation here.

As it is going this is becoming yet another circular conversation

So if no matter how much money and how much education we make or have we are fucked.

So what type of reparations would reverse this and unfuck us?

this also goes to the crux on why the reparations argument is premature for the public.

if it doesn't matter how much money we have , then a lump some won't solve the problem just postpone the pain of it.

free college won't help because it doesn't matter how much education we have.

so it is evident that reparations would have to be a package that includes more than just money or education.

what should that package be?
Click to expand...
What I see is black folks having white problems. Meaning, folks thing it's going to be one way when we get somewhere, but it's not. Think about it. Whites have had how many white presidents, yet how many poor/struggling whites are there? A shit ton. It never seems to change. Actually, they really had the 50s-70s glory years where suburbia boomed and 'turn a screw' jobs made the middle class.

Whites control the banks, wall street, congress, etc, yet look at all the white people who are check-to-check. Folks clown some black people for 'showing off' with money. Reckless spending. etc. But white folks have what's called 'keeping up with the jonses' Same shit. Different name,

Folks looking from the outside think the white folks in the new cars and in the suburbs are doing great. They ain't. They are leveraged to the tits. It's been like that for YEARS. Now when people get there and see they also leveraged to the tits, they know the middle class dream is a lie. It takes everything to maintain. Once missed check and you're fucked. And the wakeup call is folks don't qualify for any assistance. Middle class don't get shit. Caught between rich and poor. It's like purgatory.

Another part of the game that is fucked up is that you ain't supposed to count your home as net worth. So white and black middle class actually way worse off than the numbers show. :smh: Your home is to live in. People who play the asset gam never count the roof over their heads. You don't leverage your primary residence, so that money never is supposed to count.

Americans in general suck with money and the game is rigged. Folks run out get big ass mortgages, car notes, etc, and think they made it. Cacs been doing that for years and look how upset they are about money. Paycheck to paycheck.

Middle class been a hoax.
 
HOW TO TELL A TROLL:

image.png



when you quote and reply to YOURSELF in a rant...

trolls-main-image.jpg


:rolleyes2: :smh: :rolleyes2: :smh: :rolleyes2: :smh:
 
Soul On Ice said:
The crux of the article is that no matter what income you are or how much education you have as a Black person in Amerikkka you're screwed, something reparations would greatly alleviate.
The same reparations that Obama (since you brought him up) was vehemently against, because it would anger cacs and immigrants.
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You're overselling what reparations will do. Handing people money will not greatly alleviate people problems.
 
I don’t understand how black people would expect white people to give them repatriations 100+ years after the fact when for the most part black people don’t deal in politics. Unless the Democratic Party is made up of 35-40% of blacks I don’t see it happening numbers wise. Reparations seems like another carrot to ride on the backs of those who believe in it.
 
TX4lyfe said:
I don’t understand how black people would expect white people to give them repatriations 100+ years after the fact when for the most part black people don’t deal in politics. Unless the Democratic Party is made up of 35-40% of blacks I don’t see it happening numbers wise. Reparations seems like another carrot to ride on the backs of those who believe in it.
Click to expand...

i believe you completely, it's mostly a pipe dream but its a firm leg to stand on, makes the point swift and sweet but alot of us have such distain for others in our community we can't find common ground.
 
TX4lyfe said:
I don’t understand how black people would expect white people to give them repatriations 100+ years after the fact when for the most part black people don’t deal in politics. Unless the Democratic Party is made up of 35-40% of blacks I don’t see it happening numbers wise. Reparations seems like another carrot to ride on the backs of those who believe in it.
Click to expand...

Black voters are 25% of the Democratic base.
 
geechiedan said:
thats the only thing that jumped out to me..

you can withhold your vote from the top of the ticket but in reality, you're STILL only dealing with one of the two major parties. So let's say more blacks withheld their vote at the top of the ticket and trump got re-elected...you tell me how well that would have boded for the black community??
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And that's a large part of the problem!

Its rigged for them to win!

We vote. They win
We don't vote, they win.

Red or blue... it don't matter, our situation hasn't changed in 65 years.
 
BKF said:
Whether money or other things. Reparations will not be a cure all.
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You're right, it won't be. And this article touches on that with the way it describes "wealth"..
we still largely focus on current status instead of intergenerational familial legacy; on income, rather than our access to wealth, which “serves as a reservoir that a family can tap into when its income flow is disrupted,” according to economist Ngina Chiteji.
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Building black wealth requires working diligently on more than one front.
We have to have a game plan to accumulate, retain and protect wealth, otherwise all the money will go back to CACS (by design)
 
ballscout1 said:
I have read that and agree with the causes and justifications for.

My question is specific to what are the reparations we seek in total.

There have been many samples made by different people ranging from monetary payments to exclusion from having to pay taxes.

I am asking what should the package we seek look like to address all the causes and the damages
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No taxation
Free Healthcare
Free secondary education
Federally backed mortgages specifically & exclusively set aside for black people to buy homes
Policies that show favor towards black business owners, specifically & exclusively
Policies that target & severely punish individuals, institutions, & agencies that target black bodies (i.e. police brutality, over-policing, profiling)

Let's start there.
 
totto said:
We disagree usually but we agree on this but my quesiton is...

Can blacks be grounded in classism and continue to build a community for themselves?

So if you don't think reparations is a solution since alot of the money will go back to white america, do we love each other enough to invest in each other in our communities?

Here in Miami, Little Haiti is a great example... the black folks who did well left years ago and the city is literally destroying the history down here.

A few sisters are trying to bring it back by running for office but they don't have enough support.
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No.
Yes.

We have to start somewhere. We have to keep building.
 
BKF said:
You're overselling what reparations will do. Handing people money will not greatly alleviate people problems.
Click to expand...
If managed well it can help, we just gotta keep from reinvesting it into these folks economy.

A Benz ain't gon do nothin for your grandchildren
 
dHustla said:
And that's a large part of the problem!

Its rigged for them to win!

We vote. They win
We don't vote, they win.

Red or blue... it don't matter, our situation hasn't changed in 65 years.
Click to expand...
thats the inherent problem of being in the minority period even if you don't factor in race and the history and operation of it. the trick is to figure out how to navigate that but you can't avoid it.
 
I don't get it.

The author talks about how Black people are historically disadvantaged when it comes to buying property. Okay, I'm not trying to argue with facts.

However, when you have three families that make well over six figures talking about how they're worried about the mortgage I have to wonder if the problem has more to do with living beyond their means. Especially when one young lady shelling out $1,500 a month to pay down a credit card.

At the end of the day you have a country almost everyone is bad with money, but still wants to live better than their parents did.
 
VAiz4hustlaz said:
But I shouldn't be able to single out the Obama Administration for "all kinds of fucked up shit." 90% of us voted for him. "All kinds of fucked up shit" shouldn't have been happening to us during his reign.

But as far as Black America under Trump, you can use his first four years as a gauge as to how his second administration would pan out: https://www.vox.com/21524499/what-trump-has-done-for-black-people

But you continually and constantly miss the point! This goes way beyond Trump. We do not fare well under Dem or GOP administrations, in large part due to the PRE-EXISTING SOCIAL INEQUALITY THAT DEFINES OUR EXPERIENCE IN THIS COUNTRY THAT GOES BACK TO SLAVERY AND CAN ONLY BE REMEDIED BY A COMPREHENSIVE REPARATIONS AGENDA THAT NEITHER PARTY CURRENTLY PROMOTES!!!!!!

You either understand this or you do not. You're either for this or you're against it. You obviously do not understand or do not endorse this. So be it. You can hang with the Hotlantans, Dr Truths, Mcguyvers, Mr Mets, veritechs, xxxbishopsxxx, ronms, and whoever else are vocal opponents as well.
Click to expand...
The coon brigade. They are the uncle ruckus posters of BGOL and there are many more.
 
gene cisco said:
What I see is black folks having white problems. Meaning, folks thing it's going to be one way when we get somewhere, but it's not. Think about it. Whites have had how many white presidents, yet how many poor/struggling whites are there? A shit ton. It never seems to change. Actually, they really had the 50s-70s glory years where suburbia boomed and 'turn a screw' jobs made the middle class.

Whites control the banks, wall street, congress, etc, yet look at all the white people who are check-to-check. Folks clown some black people for 'showing off' with money. Reckless spending. etc. But white folks have what's called 'keeping up with the jonses' Same shit. Different name,

Folks looking from the outside think the white folks in the new cars and in the suburbs are doing great. They ain't. They are leveraged to the tits. It's been like that for YEARS. Now when people get there and see they also leveraged to the tits, they know the middle class dream is a lie. It takes everything to maintain. Once missed check and you're fucked. And the wakeup call is folks don't qualify for any assistance. Middle class don't get shit. Caught between rich and poor. It's like purgatory.

Another part of the game that is fucked up is that you ain't supposed to count your home as net worth. So white and black middle class actually way worse off than the numbers show. :smh: Your home is to live in. People who play the asset gam never count the roof over their heads. You don't leverage your primary residence, so that money never is supposed to count.

Americans in general suck with money and the game is rigged. Folks run out get big ass mortgages, car notes, etc, and think they made it. Cacs been doing that for years and look how upset they are about money. Paycheck to paycheck.

Middle class been a hoax.
Click to expand...

100% Agree.

Except instead of a hoax I would call it a scam.

A real estate developer finds an empty slice of land in the neighborhood between two big cities. The government lets the developer put up houses because the property taxes more than cover the costs of police, fire, schools, utility and roads.

But first they got to get people to buy them.

So they tell this big lie that a house on that block will bring you comfort, security and wealth . They shame you by saying that if you can't or don't buy this house then you're a loser who doesn't care about their family.

Everything works fine, until there's an economic crisis and people start to move. The city starts losing money so they push for even more development so they can pay the bills on the last set of houses.

Eventually developers no longer want to build there. The city can no longer afford services so the neighborhood falls into disrepair and becomes a slum.

It's nothing more than a big ass Ponzi scheme it's also the reason why the city would rather build low-income housing than refab the abandoned houses they already have.
 
Dannyblueyes said:
I don't get it.

The author talks about how Black people are historically disadvantaged when it comes to buying property. Okay, I'm not trying to argue with facts.

However, when you have three families that make well over six figures talking about how they're worried about the mortgage I have to wonder if the problem has more to do with living beyond their means. Especially when one young lady shelling out $1,500 a month to pay down a credit card.

At the end of the day you have a country almost everyone is bad with money, but still wants to live better than their parents did.
Click to expand...
Exactly....people want to blame everything on racism but take no responsibility for their part in where they are in life.

As the saying goes...

"When you know better, you do better."

Maya Angelou



The problem is you have too many people who know better but don't do better. There is a cultural change that must happen and I will tell you right now. Not everybody is going to come along and we should not spend most of our focus on trying to get every single individual onboard. We don't need everybody, we just need enough people to make a difference. Reparations may come and it may not come. Yet black folk shouldn't be depending on reparations to come before "we" attempt to get right.
 
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Dannyblueyes said:
I don't get it.

The author talks about how Black people are historically disadvantaged when it comes to buying property. Okay, I'm not trying to argue with facts.

However, when you have three families that make well over six figures talking about how they're worried about the mortgage I have to wonder if the problem has more to do with living beyond their means. Especially when one young lady shelling out $1,500 a month to pay down a credit card.

At the end of the day you have a country almost everyone is bad with money, but still wants to live better than their parents did.
Click to expand...

Exactly. That's why I said folks having white problems. Keeping up with the joneses. It's how millionaire athletes go broke. MOST people(black, white, whatever) just suck and managing money. Tend to spend at or beyond the level they earn. That's how athletes/entertainers end up living check-to-check.

Dannyblueyes said:
100% Agree.

Except instead of a hoax I would call it a scam.

A real estate developer finds an empty slice of land in the neighborhood between two big cities. The government lets the developer put up houses because the property taxes more than cover the costs of police, fire, schools, utility and roads.

But first they got to get people to buy them.

So they tell this big lie that a house on that block will bring you comfort, security and wealth . They shame you by saying that if you can't or don't buy this house then you're a loser who doesn't care about their family.

Everything works fine, until there's an economic crisis and people start to move. The city starts losing money so they push for even more development so they can pay the bills on the last set of houses.

Eventually developers no longer want to build there. The city can no longer afford services so the neighborhood falls into disrepair and becomes a slum.

It's nothing more than a big ass Ponzi scheme it's also the reason why the city would rather build low-income housing than refab the abandoned houses they already have.
Click to expand...
It's not just that. I've said for years that government housing programs are meant to fuel this. For example, the government will move 'affordable housing' to certain suburbs to break up the suburbs. What's the result? People who otherwise wouldn't have moved taking out mortgages to move. Then they have 'poorer' folks taking out mortgages to buy the depreciated houses. Banks print money on both ends. When someone sells, there has to be a buyer needing a loan. Rinse. Repeat. It's a game of musical chairs.

Why do you think most these pieces talk about how black property owners end up fucked when it comes to passing shit down to heirs while whites don't? Folks buy homes in nice areas, government moves in affordable housing, the property values go to shit, heirs end up with peanuts. Again, rinse and repeat. Whites move early in the process so their heirs end up with valuable property. :smh:

Remember how white folks were crying about Biden's alleged scheme to 'destroy the suburbs'? Black property owners are the ones who should be really up in and arms about trying to move more affordable housing to suburbs. Historically, it's always been easier for whites to upgrade and move. Black property owners going to be the ones fucked over by these new housing policies.

As usual, the community too slow to understand the bigger picture because of party politics and the media propaganda. Wake up in 20-30 years and see how it was OUR property values that got fucked over by this scheme. It ALWAYS is.

Want more proof? Talk to any black property owner in any area where they broke up the projects and handed out housing vouchers. Entire suburbs with black populations went to shit and black homeowners collectively lost millions in property value. :smh:
 
Fuck a politician.

We dont need them.

We can grow our money by pooling it together, only spending it on each other, dont spend big on depreciating assets, invest in your education, your kid's education, and assets you will be able to leave your kids.
 
gene cisco said:
Exactly. That's why I said folks having white problems. Keeping up with the joneses. It's how millionaire athletes go broke. MOST people(black, white, whatever) just suck and managing money. Tend to spend at or beyond the level they earn. That's how athletes/entertainers end up living check-to-check.


It's not just that. I've said for years that government housing programs are meant to fuel this. For example, the government will move 'affordable housing' to certain suburbs to break up the suburbs. What's the result? People who otherwise wouldn't have moved taking out mortgages to move. Then they have 'poorer' folks taking out mortgages to buy the depreciated houses. Banks print money on both ends. When someone sells, there has to be a buyer needing a loan. Rinse. Repeat. It's a game of musical chairs.

Why do you think most these pieces talk about how black property owners end up fucked when it comes to passing shit down to heirs while whites don't? Folks buy homes in nice areas, government moves in affordable housing, the property values go to shit, heirs end up with peanuts. Again, rinse and repeat. Whites move early in the process so their heirs end up with valuable property. :smh:

Remember how white folks were crying about Biden's alleged scheme to 'destroy the suburbs'? Black property owners are the ones who should be really up in and arms about trying to move more affordable housing to suburbs. Historically, it's always been easier for whites to upgrade and move. Black property owners going to be the ones fucked over by these new housing policies.

As usual, the community too slow to understand the bigger picture because of party politics and the media propaganda. Wake up in 20-30 years and see how it was OUR property values that got fucked over by this scheme. It ALWAYS is.

Want more proof? Talk to any black property owner in any area where they broke up the projects and handed out housing vouchers. Entire suburbs with black populations went to shit and black homeowners collectively lost millions in property value. :smh:
Click to expand...

As someone who lives in affordable housing I agree. The suburbs are the last place you want to push people with little to no money.

The housing might be cheaper, but there's no train and the buses don't run for shit. That means you need a car. If you're low income earner it's either going to be something that breaks down every other month or has a large note attached to it.

That leaves you vulnerable because anytime you get a fine, a ticket, or need a new repair you have to dip into the money that you don't have otherwise you could lose your ability to make an income.

If you lose your job you basically have one of two options. Take something in the suburbs that doesn't pay shit. Or hope that you have enough gas to get you to your downtown interview and back. If you get that job congratulations! Now you have to figure a way to buy more gas and get your car to work and back for 2 weeks without a paycheck.

It's bad for the city too because now their main workforce has to pay more to get to their jobs. That means employers have to pay more. It also means there's more cars on the road which slows down commerce and makes their employees late.

It seems like common sense. if the vast majority of people need affordable housing put it in a place that can handle the vast majority of people.
 
Dannyblueyes said:
100% Agree.

Except instead of a hoax I would call it a scam.

A real estate developer finds an empty slice of land in the neighborhood between two big cities. The government lets the developer put up houses because the property taxes more than cover the costs of police, fire, schools, utility and roads.

But first they got to get people to buy them.

So they tell this big lie that a house on that block will bring you comfort, security and wealth . They shame you by saying that if you can't or don't buy this house then you're a loser who doesn't care about their family.

Everything works fine, until there's an economic crisis and people start to move. The city starts losing money so they push for even more development so they can pay the bills on the last set of houses.

Eventually developers no longer want to build there. The city can no longer afford services so the neighborhood falls into disrepair and becomes a slum.

It's nothing more than a big ass Ponzi scheme it's also the reason why the city would rather build low-income housing than refab the abandoned houses they already have.
Click to expand...
everything you said then they charge them more or give them fucked up deals:

Princeton University sociologist Douglas Massey and research associate Jacob Rugh, who in a new study found that racial segregation and discriminatory lending made U.S. minorities "uniquely vulnerable" to the housing bust:
By concentrating foreclosures in metropolitan areas with large racial differentials in subprime lending, segregation structured the causes of the crisis, as well as the geographic and social distribution of its costs, on the basis of race. Segregation therefore racialized and intensified the consequences of the American housing bubble.
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Foreclosures are hitting African-American and, to a lesser extent, Hispanic communities across the U.S. harder than white neighborhoods, the researchers found. As an aside, this isn't to downplay the damage to anyone, regardless of creed or color, who faces losing their home. But it is to recognize that in the years preceding the housing crash, predatory lenders targeted certain groups more than others.
Indeed, until the 1990s many minorities couldn't even get a mortgage. That changed during the housing boom. And interestingly, it was for reasons directly related to shifts in the financial industry that contributed to the ensuing bust.

Before that time, banks were reluctant to lend to borrowers with weaker credit because of concerns that such loans would go bad. But the rise of securitization, in which loans are sliced up and sold to investors, encouraged lenders to get into the subprime business because they were no longer on the hook if the mortgages underlying the securities ultimately defaulted. To use the industry jargon, the "originate-to-hold" lending model largely gave way to an "originate to distribute" approach.


That had two effects: Lenders saw a reduced risk of pooling high-risk mortgages into CDOs and other financial instruments; and banks needed to find more borrowers to satisfy the growing demand for mortgage-backed securities.

As a result of these developments, from 1993 to 2000 the share of subprime mortgages going to minority households leaped from 2 to 18 percent. So when the housing bubble popped, the damage was most intense in these areas. The foreclosure rate for subprime mortgages in 2009 was nearly 16 percent, compared to 4.6 percent overall. Say the researchers:

Due to segregation, large numbers of these foreclosures were clustered in densely populated neighborhoods, thereby leaving not only the individual borrowers victims of the housing bust, but entire minority neighborhoods hit harder by the crisis than those in other parts of the country.
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It's easy to assume that the higher level of foreclosures in larger cities and collar suburbs reflect the lower incomes of residents in such communities. That's false, say Massey and Rugh, who did a statistical analysis of the 100 largest U.S. metropolitan areas. African-American borrowers with similar credit profiles, down payment ratios and other demographic characteristics were more likely to receive subprime loans than white borrowers, they found. Minorities were also far more likely than whites to get mortgages with unfavorable terms, such as a prepayment penalty.
Such findings are consistent with lawsuits against lenders alleging that they preyed on minorities. A former senior executive with Wells Fargo (WFC) last year described the banking giant's efforts to push subprime loans on African-Americans. Consistent with Massey's and Rugh's findings, she also said company loan officers had financial incentives to steer minority borrowers into subprime loans regardless of their credit or income.

www.cbsnews.com

How Racial Segregation Worsened the Foreclosure Crisis

In the years leading up to the housing bust, banks and mortgage originators preyed on minority borrowers, according to new research. Today, discriminatory lending is a major cause of foreclosures.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com

so its more than just folks living above their means in many cases their ENCOURAGED TO DO SO...because the broker tells them they can.

Lets be honest we all agree that MOST people are bad with money and if thats the case then MOST people don't know their true financial worth nor do they understand the finer details of mortgage and home loan dealing but its more than straight ignorance its also purposeful deception. People trust financial officers in the same way they trust their doctors... ASSUMING they're doing something that's in their best interest and not using them as guinea pigs.

Minorities are especially vulnerable to this for a number of factors.
 
The american middle class is a mirage, they're really the working poor but America likes to sell/market itself of having this large middle class and the dumb working poor americans like to think of themselves as middle class so they drink the kool aid while they live the lowest quality of life of all the developed nations
 
So....we either poor as fuck or we rich assholes like white folk ( but we all know it's plenty po white trash food stamp folk too huh) ok bro. :yawn:
 
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