Study says most corporations pay no U.S. income taxes

You as usual are mudding the arguments. Things are tangible. Putting value on things is man made. Example, gold and diamonds. Government as a concept was conceived by man to establish order. Just like the concepts of family and law. Without order there is chaos and we revert to animalistic law.

Yes, but there are many ways to establish order.

Who says the current order or new world order is the best way to protect the interests of man, in general?

I say only honkeys and their sycophants like the existing world order.

You keep trying to argue a moot point. Government supplies the common duties that we as a society deemed as too important to allow profit making entities to take on as well as making sure that standards are adhered to.

No, we as a society did not deem this. The Federal government assumed these responsibilities from REAL people to extend its authority over us. It could just have easily allowed a marketplace for all these services and simply regulated it.

Instead, the Federal government chose to build a massive bureaucracy.

Things like police, education, roads, schools, EMT have all been shown to be poorly delivered by the government, at least to non-whites.

In fact, non-whites are afraid to use the so-called "common duties" government provides because their quality is so inferior (sort of like any socialist state, Russia, Cuba, China, ...) to private alternatives.

Hence, you have private "police" forces, private schools/universities, private roads, and private hospitals.

And, remedy in the courts would be more responsive if the government didn't make us subjects (like we are serfs or inferiors to some crown regent) but rather sovereigns.

The common defense, the safety of our food and drugs as well as the work place and communities, contracts are enforced and interpreted, rights are respected to name a few. These tasks are not inexpensive to perform. Business won't do them for free. They require taxes, the cost of for the tasks. Because the government enforces these standards, we have a high standard of living as a country as compared to those countries that don't assign these duties to their governments.

Of course, business wouldn't do them free and neither does the government. Our standard of living is high, not because of the government. Rather, in spite of the government, we HAD a high standard of living.

Government didn't create the light bulb, car, computer, AC/DC, electronics, radio, the telephone, toilet paper, indoor plumbing, or anything it uses.

You have it backward.

The Federal government is huge BECAUSE of the country's wealth. The country's wealth IS NOT a result of government.

The government brings us wars, recession, spending, debt, inflation, and for non-whites, institutional racism.

The government doesn't just magically create wealth to provide these services. It takes the wealth from REAL people and inefficiently spends it on other REAL people.

Are you saying food, workplace, drugs oversight couldn't be done better, more efficiently, and more responsively in the marketplace?

When a private business does bad, it fails or you take it to court.

When the government does bad, you're screwed. It won't fail and you can't take it to court.

You don't sound as if you are being logical. You think the barter system is still in effect and party to party contracts will be enforced just by shaking hands.

How did you jump to this conclusion?

Again, your issue is with taxes in general. I can't help you there. Do you want a flat tax? I would guess that you wouldn't mind an across the board 15% tax on your income, period, but many millionaires and billions wouldn't want that. As was stated, most don't pay any taxes. Taxes are the cost of society with high standards of living. How about no taxes. Will business build costly infrastructures? Will they pay to educate the skilled work force they want and need? Argue theory with economists. This is the real world.

Faulty premise, if you are saying a high standard of living is dependent on high taxes.

Yes, business will build costly infrastructure if there is reasonable potential for profit. (You need to do some factory tours if you think private business doesn't build infrastructure).

Yes, they will pay to train (I hate the word educate) the workforce and pay them competitive wages in the marketplace.

Are you some kind of communist? :D

This is extremely political. 30 years ago the finical sector was less than 5% of the GNP and our dept was less than $1 trillions. Today it is about 40% of the GNP and we have over a $10 trillion debt and rising. The tax burden has sifted from the investor class to the working class.

I haven't heard this, but it shows the Federal government has doomed our future to a drastically reduced standard of living.

Again, this country was formed because the founders did not want the privileged to take advantage of the masses. We did not have massive inheritance until the robber barons of the late 1800s, at which point we formed an income tax and disallowed monopolies.

Are these the same people who allowed slavery in THEIR constitution?

Some argue the robber barons created the income tax to consolidate their power further.

Isn't Microsoft a monopoly. In fact, isn't the Federal Reserve Bank of New York a monopoly on the Federal Reserve Note.

The oil trust still has a monopoly on energy production in this country and write the energy policy to boot.

In fact, there is a drug trust, media trust, telecommunications trust, food trust, retail trust...

It's like it's 1900 all over again.

Wealth is not created in vacuum. Remember the Roaring Twenties, the stock market crash and the bank runs?

It was all an illusion supported by the Federal government and created by the Federal Reserve.

World trade never reached the levels it did of 1913 during the Roaring Twenties.

Why?

Because the governments (US, Britain, Germany, France, Russia, Ottoman Empire) did such a great job destroying so much wealth and trade in World War I through war.

It took decades to recover, despite the so-called appearance of the Roaring Twenties.

What? Sounds as if you answered your own question.

National Institutes of Health

United States Department of Energy



That's why there is government to make sure the rules are protected.



You are stuck on this moot point! However in times we do run debts. Wars, economic down times, when we drained the treasury to fight the cold war, cut taxes for the top 5% while raise taxes for everyone else. Are these not political?



Are you in the top 5% of income earners? Making over $250,000/yr? Obama just gave most taxes payers an income tax cut.



Our standard of living has dropped since Reagan’s supply side debacle.

Our standard of living has been dropping since the 1960s. It accelerated during the 1970s. Reagan, to provide an appearance of prosperity, decided to live "ghetto rich" (excuse the vernacular).

He borrowed like crazy to give the illusion that prosperity was here and wealth was being created. Unfortunately, Americans thought it was REAL wealth and believed you could borrow/spend to prosperity.

Dumb.

Oh yea! Everyone must pay their share. If they paid their fair share in the beginning we would not have many of this problems.

I don't get this fair share thing. Income tax is not fair. There is no share of anything.

Someone gains and another loses. That is the way government operates.

Good, because the military is now over 50% of government spending. Not counting all of the secret projects hidden under classified expenditures. Would we be any less safe if the military was 50% less than it is now? It would still be larger than any other nation’s defense budget.

Personally, a large standing army is a crime against the taxpayer.

The average person pays more in federal taxes than the top 5%. The conservatives/right wing never include FICA taxes in the tax argument. If you make over $95,000 you pay none.

Could you imagine if we had implemented the Bush social security privation that the republicans/conservatives/right wing wanted back in 2003/2004? You think we have problems now.

Just a thought

I do believe the Republicans lost their mind believing you can have a big military AND low taxes AND small government.

Then again, Obama and the current Congress seems to be following suit, so maybe it's just Washington DC today.
 
Yes, but there are many ways to establish order.

Who says the current order or new world order is the best way to protect the interests of man, in general?

I say only honkeys and their sycophants like the existing world order.



No, we as a society did not deem this. The Federal government assumed these responsibilities from REAL people to extend its authority over us. It could just have easily allowed a marketplace for all these services and simply regulated it.

Instead, the Federal government chose to build a massive bureaucracy.

Things like police, education, roads, schools, EMT have all been shown to be poorly delivered by the government, at least to non-whites.

In fact, non-whites are afraid to use the so-called "common duties" government provides because their quality is so inferior (sort of like any socialist state, Russia, Cuba, China, ...) to private alternatives.

Hence, you have private "police" forces, private schools/universities, private roads, and private hospitals.

And, remedy in the courts would be more responsive if the government didn't make us subjects (like we are serfs or inferiors to some crown regent) but rather sovereigns.



Of course, business wouldn't do them free and neither does the government. Our standard of living is high, not because of the government. Rather, in spite of the government, we HAD a high standard of living.

Government didn't create the light bulb, car, computer, AC/DC, electronics, radio, the telephone, toilet paper, indoor plumbing, or anything it uses.

You have it backward.

The Federal government is huge BECAUSE of the country's wealth. The country's wealth IS NOT a result of government.

The government brings us wars, recession, spending, debt, inflation, and for non-whites, institutional racism.

The government doesn't just magically create wealth to provide these services. It takes the wealth from REAL people and inefficiently spends it on other REAL people.

Are you saying food, workplace, drugs oversight couldn't be done better, more efficiently, and more responsively in the marketplace?

When a private business does bad, it fails or you take it to court.

When the government does bad, you're screwed. It won't fail and you can't take it to court.



How did you jump to this conclusion?



Faulty premise, if you are saying a high standard of living is dependent on high taxes.

Yes, business will build costly infrastructure if there is reasonable potential for profit. (You need to do some factory tours if you think private business doesn't build infrastructure).

Yes, they will pay to train (I hate the word educate) the workforce and pay them competitive wages in the marketplace.

Are you some kind of communist? :D



I haven't heard this, but it shows the Federal government has doomed our future to a drastically reduced standard of living.



Are these the same people who allowed slavery in THEIR constitution?

Some argue the robber barons created the income tax to consolidate their power further.

Isn't Microsoft a monopoly. In fact, isn't the Federal Reserve Bank of New York a monopoly on the Federal Reserve Note.

The oil trust still has a monopoly on energy production in this country and write the energy policy to boot.

In fact, there is a drug trust, media trust, telecommunications trust, food trust, retail trust...

It's like it's 1900 all over again.



It was all an illusion supported by the Federal government and created by the Federal Reserve.

World trade never reached the levels it did of 1913 during the Roaring Twenties.

Why?

Because the governments (US, Britain, Germany, France, Russia, Ottoman Empire) did such a great job destroying so much wealth and trade in World War I through war.

It took decades to recover, despite the so-called appearance of the Roaring Twenties.



Our standard of living has been dropping since the 1960s. It accelerated during the 1970s. Reagan, to provide an appearance of prosperity, decided to live "ghetto rich" (excuse the vernacular).

He borrowed like crazy to give the illusion that prosperity was here and wealth was being created. Unfortunately, Americans thought it was REAL wealth and believed you could borrow/spend to prosperity.

Dumb.



I don't get this fair share thing. Income tax is not fair. There is no share of anything.

Someone gains and another loses. That is the way government operates.



Personally, a large standing army is a crime against the taxpayer.



I do believe the Republicans lost their mind believing you can have a big military AND low taxes AND small government.

Then again, Obama and the current Congress seems to be following suit, so maybe it's just Washington DC today.


Rather than go point by point, which I may do in due time, especially when your lack of knowledge of history is typical of your political slant. I would expect you to not know that private fire departments in New York City during the mid 1800s let structures burn down if they didn’t have identification on the buildings that indicated that that it was paid up to that fire department or that private fire departments fought over fire calls which delayed the fire fighting activity, which caused unnecessary deaths and property damage. Not very efficient was it. Here is a current example of government commons doing the job private originations will not do and rather pass it along to the tax payers yet reap the advantages. This article: Texas Governor. Talks Session, But Wants Federal Government. Aide For Swine Flu LOL! states that a conservative/republican governor claims the federal government is intruding on states rights, yet why is he not consulting a private company for this issue. You response is dearly required!!!
 
Rather than go point by point, which I may do in due time, especially when your lack of knowledge of history is typical of your political slant. I would expect you to not know that private fire departments in New York City during the mid 1800s let structures burn down if they didn’t have identification on the buildings that indicated that that it was paid up to that fire department or that private fire departments fought over fire calls which delayed the fire fighting activity, which caused unnecessary deaths and property damage. Not very efficient was it.

I find it amusing you use this as an example since it demonstrates political corruption in private affairs and is from more than a century ago (movie: Gangs of New York).

Those fire departments were controlled by different political factions in the city. They were used to gain favor or extract obedience, when needed, from the voters.

In fact, the fire companies would fight each other while the house burned down. You had the same phenomenon with the City Police and the Metropolitan Police of the same era in New York.

These are political issues, not free market issues. Once again, the government interferes in the marketplace to disastrous effect.

Here is a current example of government commons doing the job private originations will not do and rather pass it along to the tax payers yet reap the advantages. This article: Texas Governor. Talks Session, But Wants Federal Government. Aide For Swine Flu LOL! states that a conservative/republican governor claims the federal government is intruding on states rights, yet why is he not consulting a private company for this issue. You response is dearly required!!!

Why would he consult a private company?

He is a government employee.
 
source: U.S. PIRG

Tax Shell Game: The Taxpayer Cost of Offshore Corporate Havens
2009-04-15

Executive Summary
Many of the largest corporations in our country hide profits made in the United States in offshore shell companies and sham headquarters in order to avoid paying billions in federal taxes. The result is massive losses in revenue for the U.S. Treasury – which ultimately must be made up by taxpayers.

The debt of a few is transferred to many – and to future generations. The U.S. Senate confirmed in the recently-passed fiscal year 2010 budget resolution that the use of offshore tax havens by large corporations “means that honest taxpayers face a higher burden.”

Key Findings

• The cost to taxpayers due to the use of offshore tax havens is as high as $100 billion per year - $1 trillion over 10 years. U.S.-based individuals and corporations who pay taxes on their revenues must shoulder this burden for those who do not.

• Taxpayers must shoulder the burden – U.S. PIRG Education Fund calculated each state’s taxpayer contribution proportional to their yearly federal contribution to make up for the $100 billion lost (See Figure 1).

• Our allies in other nations are also calling for decisive action to reign in these abusive tax havens. The Group of 20 (G-20), which provides a forum for world financial leaders to promote global economic stability, recently issued a communique providing for sanctions against tax haven countries.

Recommendation

The federal government should relieve taxpayers of this unfair burden by closing the loopholes in the tax code that allow the use of offshore tax havens.

The impact of companies diverting profits to tax havens is real and it is both global and local in its reach. As American taxpayers face their yearly responsibility to report all of their earnings, policymakers should be reminded that there are many corporations who continue to hide theirs.
 
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The goal of life is not paying your "fair" share (whatever that means). Why be exploited by the federal income tax scam at all????

Instead of complaining about people who have "tax shelters", maybe the goal should be to learn how to create your own.

Federal income tax is a continuing crime against the people.

The people do not want it.
The people didn't vote for it.
The people don't support it.

So...

Why do the people pay it? (fear, habit, hope :confused:)
Why do the people care whether other people pay it?

It is especially bewildering why anyone non-white would willingly pay Federal Income Tax. Now, that IS a head-scratcher.
 
The goal of life is not paying your "fair" share (whatever that means). Why be exploited by the federal income tax scam at all????

Instead of complaining about people who have "tax shelters", maybe the goal should be to learn how to create your own.

Federal income tax is a continuing crime against the people.

The people do not want it.
The people didn't vote for it.
The people don't support it.

So...

Why do the people pay it? (fear, habit, hope :confused:)
Why do the people care whether other people pay it?

It is especially bewildering why anyone non-white would willingly pay Federal Income Tax. Now, that IS a head-scratcher.


If you live in a society you pay to exist in that society. Pay your taxes. Unless you want our country to be like Mexico, Swine Flu and all!

When the arguments go use the race card.
 
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If you live in a society you pay to exist in that society. Pay your taxes. Unless you want our country to be like Mexico, Swine Flu and all!

When the arguments go use the race card.

And what exactly is Federal Income Tax supposed to be paying?

From my understanding, there is still high crime, high foreclosures, high unemployment, high poverty, high dropout rates. I guess Mexico is different?

And since you love honkeys so much, maybe you love paying to support them. But, believe it or not, many do not want to subsidize them.
 
And what exactly is Federal Income Tax supposed to be paying?

From my understanding, there is still high crime, high foreclosures, high unemployment, high poverty, high dropout rates. I guess Mexico is different?

And since you love honkeys so much, maybe you love paying to support them. But, believe it or not, many do not want to subsidize them.

So move to Mexico and pay no taxes!

BTW, is this your idea of the Republican Party makeover? It’s not helping Michael Steele. You did vote for GW?
 
OP, so now that you have come to the conclusion that most corporations pay little income tax, Do you still support those massive windfall profit taxes?

Cause you do understand they just pass that expense on the the consumer, right?
 
OP, so now that you have come to the conclusion that most corporations pay little income tax, Do you still support those massive windfall profit taxes?

Cause you do understand they just pass that expense on the the consumer, right?

Ya think? Don't you think WE as consumers will buy the competitors products if the prices rise? Doesn’t competition and choice lower prices? Of course someone like you would hate for capitalists to cut their cost in order to compete. Econ 101!

Taxes do not equal high prices, greed does!
 
Ya think? Don't you think WE as consumers will buy the competitors products if the prices rise? Doesn’t competition and choice lower prices? Of course someone like you would hate for capitalists to cut their cost in order to compete. Econ 101!

Taxes do not equal high prices, greed does!

These high-azz taxes have basically forced major corps to offshore their operations. Another point, don't you think regulations put a stranglehold on competitors who try to introduce products to the marketplace but can't afford it? We've already discussed how Phillip Morris lobbies for more regulation in the tobacco industry! Regulations make the Big, BIGGER!

What do you have against cutting taxes anyway?
 
These high-azz taxes have basically forced major corps to offshore their operations. Another point, don't you think regulations put a stranglehold on competitors who try to introduce products to the marketplace but can't afford it? We've already discussed how Phillip Morris lobbies for more regulation in the tobacco industry! Regulations make the Big, BIGGER!

What do you have against cutting taxes anyway?

It's interesting how you either parrot the corporatist capitalist line or are gullible to it. Those companies are not forced off shore because of high taxes, it’s because they can hide assets and skirt regulations. Are you dense?

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What do you have against cutting taxes anyway?

source: Times Newspapers Ltd

Buffett blasts system that lets him pay less tax than secretary
 
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It's interesting how you either parrot the corporatist capitalist line or are gullible to it. Those companies are not forced off shore because of high taxes, it’s because they can hide assets and skirt regulations. Are you dense?

I wasn't quite old enough to vote then but I was drinking the Clinton Kool-Aid then. We all should have supported Perot. Anyway, policy forced corps to take jobs overseas, Therefore policy could've kept jobs here. (tariffs on imports, lower taxes etc.)

source: Times Newspapers Ltd

Buffett blasts system that lets him pay less tax than secretary

All that article is saying is the middle-class needs a larger tax cut, and we do!

More than tax cuts, Why don't you advocate spending cuts by the govt?
 
I wasn't quite old enough to vote then but I was drinking the Clinton Kool-Aid then. We all should have supported Perot. Anyway, policy forced corps to take jobs overseas, Therefore policy could've kept jobs here. (tariffs on imports, lower taxes etc.)

It’s irrelevant how old you were and if you could have voted for Perot, he said if you want to have living standards, like Mexico and other second and third world nations that have little or no regulations on business, allow business to skirt taxes with programs like NAFTA.

(tariffs on imports, lower taxes etc)

Tariffs are a tax, so you are advocating for higher taxes on business, you just contradicted yourself…again!

All that article is saying is the middle-class needs a larger tax cut, and we do!

<SPAN style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff00">“The 400 of us [here] pay a lower part of our income in taxes than our receptionists do, or our cleaning ladies, for that matter. If you’re in the luckiest 1 per cent of humanity, you owe it to the rest of humanity to think about the other 99 per cent.”
Mr Buffett said that he was taxed at 17.7 per cent on the $46 million he made last year, without trying to avoid paying higher taxes, while his secretary, who earned $60,000, was taxed at 30 per cent. Mr Buffett told his audience,</SPAN>

So lets tax Buffet and is type at 30% and the rest of us at 17.7%.

BTW, Obama has given the middle class a tax cut and he is trying to shift the tax burden from the middle class to top 5% but he is getting no help from republicans and libertarians.

More than tax cuts, Why don't you advocate spending cuts by the govt?

Read my posts. Reading is fundamental. Let's start with military, the single largest tax burden in the US government.
 
Tariffs are a tax, so you are advocating for higher taxes on business, you just contradicted yourself…again!

Wrong, put a tax on imports to preserve domestic manufacturing. (its the protectionist in me). Our corps are the highest taxed on the planet, and you wonder why they leave the States?

So lets tax Buffet and is type at 30% and the rest of us at 17.7%.

BTW, Obama has given the middle class a tax cut and he is trying to shift the tax burden from the middle class to top 5% but he is getting no help from republicans and libertarians.

Reading is fundamental, stay on topic (corporate taxes)

BTW, Libertarians have consistently argued the IRS was unconstitutional. Obviously, they would like to see an end to the "income tax".

Let's start with military, the single largest tax burden in the US government.

End the Wars Now, cause so far, Obama = Bush (on foreign policy)
 
<font size="5"><center>
Bank of America, Wells Fargo might
not pay federal taxes for 2009</font size>
<font size="4">

Annual reports suggest BofA and Wells Fargo won't
have to pay federal income taxes for 2009.</font size></center>


Charlotte Observer
By Christina Rexrode
crexrode@charlotteobserver.com
Friday, Mar. 26, 2010


This tax season will be kind to Bank of America and Wells Fargo: It appears that neither bank will have to pay federal income taxes for 2009.

Bank of America probably won't pay federal taxes because it lost money in the U.S. for the year. Wells Fargo was profitable, but can write down its tax bill because of losses at Wachovia, which it rescued from a near collapse.

The idea of the country's No. 1 and No. 4 banks not paying federal income taxes may be anathema to millions of Americans who are grumbling as they fill out their own tax forms this month. But tax experts say the banks' situation is hardly unique.

"Oh, yeah, this happens all the time," said Robert Willens, an expert on tax accounting who runs a New York firm with the same name. "Especially now, with companies suffering such severe losses."

Bob McIntyre, at Citizens for Tax Justice, said he opposes the government giving corporations such a break.

"If you go out and try to make money and you don't do it, why should the government pay you for your losses?" McIntyre said. "It's as simple as that."

For 2009, Bank of America netted a $2.3 billion benefit related to income taxes, according to its annual report: It had a benefit of $3.6 billion from the federal government, and an expense of $1.3 billion that it paid to different state and foreign governments.

It's not unusual for a company's debt to the federal government to vary widely from its debt to state governments, as appears to be the case with Bank of America, said Douglas Shackelford, a tax professor at UNC Chapel Hill.

The federal government often offers more tax deductions than the states; for example, Bank of America wrote down its federal taxable income with credits from low-income housing and losses on foreign subsidiary stock.

Company tax returns aren't public, so it's difficult to say for certain how much a company pays to, or receives from, tax coffers in any year .

The bank's $3.6 billion current federal tax benefit for 2009 came in a year when it lost $1 billion in the U.S., according to its latest annual report. For the previous year, when the bank had profits of $3.3 billion in the U.S., it listed a current federal tax expense of $5.1 billion.

Wells Fargo was profitable in 2009, with $8 billion in earnings applicable to common shareholders. But its tax payments were reduced because of Wachovia's losses.

Wells netted an overall tax benefit of $4.1 billion in 2009. It got a benefit worth nearly $4 billion from the federal government, and another worth $334 million from state governments. It had an expense of $164 million in foreign taxes. Wells did record an overall income tax expense of $5.3 billion, but that was offset by the tax benefits of the Wachovia losses.


<font size="4">Tax breaks and stimulus</font size>

The topic of corporate tax breaks has gained buzz recently because of a provision in the 2009 stimulus bill, which allows companies to "carry back" their losses for 2008 and 2009 to the previous five years, instead of just the previous two years. Homebuilders and other industries that suffered big losses in 2008 and 2009, but made a lot of money in the years before that, stand to gain billions in refunds. However, the stimulus bill provision does not apply for Bank of America and Wells Fargo, because companies that received TARP loans are ineligible.

UNC's Shackelford said the argument for carrybacks stems from the belief that it's "arbitrary" that taxes are collected on an annual basis.

"There's no reason we couldn't collect them on a monthly basis or a two-year basis. Then your losses and gains would be offset over the period," he said. "The carryback enables you to not be penalized because your losses got bunched in a different year from your gains."

The stimulus bill provision, he said, was helped by business lobbying. "There's an awful lot of companies that paid a lot of taxes in the 2004 period, then they lost a lot of money, and they went to their legislators and said, 'Please help us,'" Shackelford said.

McIntyre, at Citizens for Tax Justice, co-authored a report in 2004 related to carrybacks, after the Bush administration expanded many corporate tax breaks. The report examined 275 of the country's largest companies and found that nearly one-third paid no federal income taxes in at least one year from 2001 to 2003. The companies overall were profitable in those years, but took advantage of tax breaks.

"If you or I lose money in the stock market, we don't get to carry back our losses to any significant degree," said McIntyre. His group works on closing tax breaks for corporations.

"Getting a refund from the past, that's just weird," he added.




http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/03/26/1337021/billions-in-tax-benefits-for-banks.html
 
WASHINGTON — At least 13 firms receiving billions of dollars in bailout money owe a total of more than $220 million in unpaid federal taxes, a key lawmaker said Thursday.

Rep. John Lewis, chairman of a House subcommittee overseeing the federal bailout, said two firms owe more than $100 million apiece.

"This is shameful. It is a disgrace," said Lewis, D-Ga. "We are going to get to the bottom of what is going on here."

:lol:

I wonder if he ever got to the bottom of what was goin on?

unintended consequences of bailin them greedy bastards out
 
:lol:

I wonder if he ever got to the bottom of what was goin on?

unintended consequences of bailin them greedy bastards out



But,... the right is fighting to include the top 2% on retaining the Bush tax cuts!

I guess they need that money to export more American jobs.:hmm::angry:
 
But,... the right is fighting to include the top 2% on retaining the Bush tax cuts!

I guess they need that money to export more American jobs.:hmm::angry:

fuck what the right is fightin about!

Did Rep. John Lewis get to the bottom of what he was looking for? :D

You think those companies coughed up that $220 mil?
 
Wrong, put a tax on imports to preserve domestic manufacturing. (its the protectionist in me). Our corps are the highest taxed on the planet, and you wonder why they leave the States?

source: Wiki

A tariff (from the Arabic تعريفة, transliterated taʿrīfah, "notification"; derived from the verb ʿarrafa, "to announce, inform") is a tax levied on imports or exports.

Nice to see you favor government tactics to maintain our standard of living!:yes:

Reading is fundamental, stay on topic (corporate taxes)

Don't you understand that in order to circumvent tax laws many incorporate themselves.

BTW, Libertarians have consistently argued the IRS was unconstitutional. Obviously, they would like to see an end to the "income tax".


Libertarians are against ALL taxes. Check Rand Paul.


End the Wars Now, cause so far, Obama = Bush (on foreign policy)

I agree, he has begun to ramp down Iraq.
 
These high-azz taxes have basically forced major corps to offshore their operations. Another point, don't you think regulations put a stranglehold on competitors who try to introduce products to the marketplace but can't afford it? We've already discussed how Phillip Morris lobbies for more regulation in the tobacco industry! Regulations make the Big, BIGGER!

What do you have against cutting taxes anyway?

These high-azz taxes have basically forced major corps to offshore their operations.

Bullshit! Major corporations are profitable, they just want to be even more greedy.

source: http://www.jwjblog.org/2010/03/stop-shut-downs-stop-lay-offs-stop-corporate-greed/

Stop Shut-Downs. Stop Lay-Offs. Stop Corporate Greed.

The fight-back is growing

Whirlpool refrigerators. Hugo Boss suits. Toyota Corollas. What do they have in common?

They’ve all been made by U.S. workers who will soon lose their jobs — if the corporate CEOs get their way. All these major corporations work hard (and spend a lot) to promote a positive corporate image. But they all plan to shut down their U.S. plants and shift production overseas — devastating our communities and taking advantage of workers abroad – even though these plants are profitable. If Corporate America gets its way, good jobs with benefits and economic security will be a distant memory...
 
Bullshit! Major corporations are profitable, they just want to be even more greedy.

source: http://www.jwjblog.org/2010/03/stop-shut-downs-stop-lay-offs-stop-corporate-greed/

Stop Shut-Downs. Stop Lay-Offs. Stop Corporate Greed.

The fight-back is growing

Whirlpool refrigerators. Hugo Boss suits. Toyota Corollas. What do they have in common?

They’ve all been made by U.S. workers who will soon lose their jobs — if the corporate CEOs get their way. All these major corporations work hard (and spend a lot) to promote a positive corporate image. But they all plan to shut down their U.S. plants and shift production overseas — devastating our communities and taking advantage of workers abroad – even though these plants are profitable. If Corporate America gets its way, good jobs with benefits and economic security will be a distant memory...

I read a lot of the articles you post on this forum. Unfortunately I personally feel like you seem to only read things that support your political and social view. I may be wrong but that's what I gather. No offense intended.

I say this because you call seeking to make a profit, "greed." Simple as that. If someone opens a business they did so in order to maximize their profit; shouldn't they be allowed to do so as efficiently as they see fit. Aside from defrauding their customers, employees, or shareholders, they should be able to do so however they like I think. As long as they are not literally harming people with the product or service they provide and they aren't defrauding people or dishonoring contracts, I see very little that the government should be involved in doing in relation to that person's business. If someone figures out a way to provide people something they want, why shouldn't they be able to charge people what they want for it? Why shouldn't they be able to employ as many or as few people as they want and whomever they want? What is that for you or I to say? I don't think a person that creates a business here in America "owes me a position" at that business more than someone in India (and at a higher salary) simply because I live in America and the other person lives in India. What did I do to help that person's business? What right do I have to lessen his profit by demanding that he give me the job and pay me a wage higher than the person in India is willing to do the same job for?

Also, you often talk about people not paying enough taxes. Why should they pay more taxes? Do you know that the top 1% of wage earners in this country pay about a third of all federal tax revenue in this country each year, the top 5% over half of all tax revenue, while the entire bottom 50% pay less than 5% of all tax revenue paid in this country each year. Yes, I know that the ultra-rich like the billionaires and multi-millionaire CEOs your articles often refer to get enormous "tax breaks" but they are a sliver of the top 1%. A family earning $250,000/year (never mind how many members their are in the family, another story in itself) doesn't have the political connections to get those type of tax breaks. They don't have lawyers that literally help write the federal tax code.

I agree that corporations influence government to pass laws and regulations that work in their favor to limit competition which allows them to become richer than they would be without government assistance. So I'm for as little government interference in the economy as possible outside of enforcing contracts and preventing & prosecuting fraud. Regulation outside of this rarely helps "the people" so called; it often hurts them by limiting competition in business and therefore consumer choice.

There's plenty more I could say but I'll leave it at that. Again, not trying to scream on you. Just wanted to share my thoughts because it seems like you're so fixed on one perspective of things that you aren't allowing yourself to consider that the "other side" (as the president likes to call any non-supporters) may at least have something worth considering. I believe they do.
 
I read a lot of the articles you post on this forum. Unfortunately I personally feel like you seem to only read things that support your political and social view. I may be wrong but that's what I gather. No offense intended.

I say this because you call seeking to make a profit, "greed." Simple as that. If someone opens a business they did so in order to maximize their profit; shouldn't they be allowed to do so as efficiently as they see fit. Aside from defrauding their customers, employees, or shareholders, they should be able to do so however they like I think. As long as they are not literally harming people with the product or service they provide and they aren't defrauding people or dishonoring contracts, I see very little that the government should be involved in doing in relation to that person's business. If someone figures out a way to provide people something they want, why shouldn't they be able to charge people what they want for it? Why shouldn't they be able to employ as many or as few people as they want and whomever they want? What is that for you or I to say? I don't think a person that creates a business here in America "owes me a position" at that business more than someone in India (and at a higher salary) simply because I live in America and the other person lives in India. What did I do to help that person's business? What right do I have to lessen his profit by demanding that he give me the job and pay me a wage higher than the person in India is willing to do the same job for?

Also, you often talk about people not paying enough taxes. Why should they pay more taxes? Do you know that the top 1% of wage earners in this country pay about a third of all federal tax revenue in this country each year, the top 5% over half of all tax revenue, while the entire bottom 50% pay less than 5% of all tax revenue paid in this country each year. Yes, I know that the ultra-rich like the billionaires and multi-millionaire CEOs your articles often refer to get enormous "tax breaks" but they are a sliver of the top 1%. A family earning $250,000/year (never mind how many members their are in the family, another story in itself) doesn't have the political connections to get those type of tax breaks. They don't have lawyers that literally help write the federal tax code.

I agree that corporations influence government to pass laws and regulations that work in their favor to limit competition which allows them to become richer than they would be without government assistance. So I'm for as little government interference in the economy as possible outside of enforcing contracts and preventing & prosecuting fraud. Regulation outside of this rarely helps "the people" so called; it often hurts them by limiting competition in business and therefore consumer choice.

There's plenty more I could say but I'll leave it at that. Again, not trying to scream on you. Just wanted to share my thoughts because it seems like you're so fixed on one perspective of things that you aren't allowing yourself to consider that the "other side" (as the president likes to call any non-supporters) may at least have something worth considering. I believe they do.


Maybe I'm reading your post wrong or you didn't follow the entire thread.

Study says most corporations pay no U.S. income taxes

Do you think this is right?
 
Maybe I'm reading your post wrong or you didn't follow the entire thread.



Do you think this is right?

Yeah bruh, I followed the entire thread. I actually didn't see anything in the parts of the article that you posted directly on this board that said that most corporations pay no U.S. income taxes. Not saying it's not there, maybe I just missed it. Can you point it out to me in the article you provided here?

What I did read was that a number of corporations utilize tax havens so that they don't pay as much in taxes. The analysts in the article theorize that this is what is hurting taxpayers. It seems to make more sense to me that the government spending that necessitates such high taxation is what hurts the taxpayers. Imagine if these corporations had to pay all these taxes. People say businesses aren't hiring enough now? There's no way they'd have as many people as they have on their payrolls now if they had millions/billions less in capital due to taxes. I may be wrong, but I think these corporations still do pay taxes, just not as much as they would if they didn't have these tax shelters. I agree they sound bogus, empty buildings in the Cayman Islands, but I think it's more bogus to be hitting these businesses with enormous tax obligations in order to support ineffective and mismanaged government bureucracies and programs.

When someone creates a successful business, they not only provide people with something they want but they also provide people with jobs. Yes they make a profit, that is assumed to be the primary reason they commercialized their product or service. I don't see this as a bad thing. Also, remember that no one can truly tax "a business". However you try to label it, people are the ones that are taxed. And when you look at it, business executives don't let taxes effect what's going into their pockets much. The costs of the taxes largely effect "the workers" (through wages, benefits, etc.) and the consumers (higher prices, loss of special discounts, etc.). Not always of course, there is more to it than that but I believe this is generally true. What is true for sure is that businesses are not really taxed, people are. Those running businesses will try to pass the costs on to people other than themselves as much as possible.

Peace.
 
What I did read was that a number of corporations utilize tax havens so that they don't pay as much in taxes. The analysts in the article theorize that this is what is hurting taxpayers. It seems to make more sense to me that the government spending that necessitates such high taxation is what hurts the taxpayers


Imagine if these corporations had to pay all these taxes. People say businesses aren't hiring enough now? There's no way they'd have as many people as they have on their payrolls now if they had millions/billions less in capital due to taxes. I may be wrong,


They did before. Prior to the 1980s, corporations footed between 40% and 70% of the tax burden and we had full employment, the most advanced infrastructure in the world and a manageable debt. Now they cover less than 20%. I would say corporations were doing rather well back then, expanding, reinvesting, employing people. But of course you think they didn't make enough money. Instead of 10% profit margins, you think 20, 30 or more profit margins are not enough.

Bottom line, if you are a citizen, like the courts say corporations are, then let them step up and contribute like citizens.
 
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They did before. Prior to the 1980s, corporations footed between 40% and 70% of the tax burden and we had full employment, the most advanced infrastructure in the world and a manageable debt. Now they cover less than 20%. I would say corporations were doing rather well back then, expanding, reinvesting, employing people. But of course you think they didn't make enough money. Instead of 10% profit margins, you think 20, 30 or more profit margins are not enough.

Bottom line, if you are a citizen, like the courts say corporations are, then let them step up and contribute like citizens.

No, see now your response is headed towards more of an attack on me. "But of course you think they didn't make enough money."

I don't want to go there with you bruh. Peace.
 
No, see now your response is headed towards more of an attack on me. "But of course you think they didn't make enough money."

I don't want to go there with you bruh. Peace.

You offered your opinion stating government spending is more of a detriment than skirting tax payments. You changed the subject. I can't question you on that?

We had more fiscal sanity before the "Ownership Society."
 
They did before. Prior to the 1980s, corporations footed between 40% and 70% of the tax burden and we had full employment, the most advanced infrastructure in the world and a manageable debt. Now they cover less than 20%.

I'd like to see some hard evidence on that cause if the govt raises the tax burden, the percentage of revenues from taxes would obviously fall without the equal expansion in productivity
 
I'd like to see some hard evidence on that cause if the govt raises the tax burden, the percentage of revenues from taxes would obviously fall without the equal expansion in productivity

the percentage of revenues from taxes would obviously fall without the equal expansion in productivity

That's just the point. Since 1980, and particularly since 2000, productive has increased but the tax burden for the to 5% has decreased.

Productivity

source: http://www.bls.gov/lpc/prodybar.htm
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source: Center on Budget and Policy Priorities


10-20-03tax-fact-f1.jpg
 
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