Should we pay higher taxes to cover the cost of Afghan war ???

QueEx

Rising Star
Super Moderator
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Should we pay higher taxes
to cover the cost of Afghan war?</font size></center>




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<font size="3">Abraham Lincoln imposed an
income tax to pay for the Civil War</font size>



McClatchy Newspapers
By Steven Thomma
Thursday, November 26, 2009


WASHINGTON — Abraham Lincoln levied the country's first income tax to help pay soldiers and buy rifles for the Civil War.

Franklin Roosevelt raised taxes as well, to help pay for World War II.

Lyndon Johnson tacked a temporary 10 percent surtax on top of normal income taxes to help pay for the Vietnam War.

Now, as President Barack Obama prepares to send tens of thousands more U.S. troops to the eight-year-old war in Afghanistan, the pending escalation is raising the question of how the country should pay the growing bill.

Some top Democrats in Congress propose a surtax starting in 2011.

Conservatives call it a political ploy from lawmakers who felt no need to raise taxes to pay for things they wanted, such as the economic stimulus package. Economists say that more tax increases could hurt the economy just as it starts to rebound.

<SPAN style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff00">Obama</span> hasn't said what he wants to do. He <SPAN style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff00">has</span>, however, <SPAN style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff00">signaled that he no longer can afford — economically and perhaps politically — to simply add the cost of the war to the soaring federal debt, as his predecessor did</span>.

For the first time in nine meetings over months of deliberations on the Afghanistan strategy, Obama on Monday invited Budget Director Peter Orszag to sit in, a sign that the White House was weighing the budget consequences of a troop surge that could cost a trillion dollars over 10 years.

"There is serious unrest in our caucus . . . can we afford this war?" House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said in a Tuesday conference call with economists. "We have to look at that war with a green eyeshade on."

The U.S. historically has four ways to pay for a war, according to the Congressional Research Service — raise taxes, cut other spending, borrow, or print more money.

So far, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have been financed by borrowing.

Now, a group of top Democrats led by Rep. David Obey, D-Wis., proposes a surtax to help pay for the Afghanistan war.

"The only people who've paid any price for our military involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan are our military families," said Obey, who's the chairman of the House Appropriations Committee. "We believe that if this war is to be fought, it's only fair that everyone share the burden."

It's not just a matter of equity, though. Obey and other liberals fear that the rising budget pressure created by a $1.4 trillion annual budget deficit and a $12 trillion national debt will squeeze their priorities for domestic spending.

"If we don't address the cost of this war," Obey said, "we will continue shoving billions of dollars in taxes off on future generations and will devour money that could be used to rebuild our economy by fixing our broken health care system, expanding educational opportunities and job training possibilities, attacking our long term energy problems and building stronger communities. We cannot allow the war to derail that potential."

Obey's proposal would impose a 1 percent surtax on anyone making less than $150,000 a year, and would impose bigger — and as yet undefined — surtaxes on those making more.

Robert Bixby, the director of the Concord Coalition, a bipartisan group that advocates balanced budgets, called Obey's proposal a good idea that reflects growing awareness of the deficits and debt.

"We've been fighting that war (in Afghanistan) for eight years and haven't paid for any of it except by borrowing," Bixby said.

He noted that earlier wars were financed through combinations of taxes, borrowing and cuts in other spending. "There's always going to be borrowing. But the entire war shouldn't be financed by borrowing."

He also said that Obey's proposal underscores that politics is shifting as runaway debt puts pressure on any new spending, including Democratic proposals to expand health care for the uninsured. Democrats propose a combination of tax increases and cuts in Medicare to help finance that proposal, though not enough to pay for all of it once it's fully implemented.

Conservatives say that Obey's tax proposal can't pass a Congress heading into an election year. They argue instead that Obey and House Democrats are really using it as a political wedge, either as payback to conservatives for demanding that an expansion of health care be paid for, or as a way of opposing an escalation of the war.

"It's dead on arrival. Because of the explosion of domestic spending this year, it's hard for members (of Congress) to say with a straight face that they need to levy a tax to pay for this," said Mackenzie Eaglen, a research fellow at the Heritage Foundation, a conservative policy organization.

"It seems they're using it to pressure the president to not escalate in Afghanistan. It also puts conservatives in a bind by trying to force a debate between war and taxes, both of which tend to be unpopular."

She said that Obama already took a major step toward responsibly paying for the war by putting it in the regular budget process. Former President George W. Bush had used a series of emergency appropriations to finance the war, keeping it apart from the budget.

With the government's regular budget spending $1.4 trillion more than it collects in taxes, however, that also means the war, like other programs, is financed at least in party by borrowing.

If that puts off paying the bill until later, paying it now with higher taxes poses its own dangers.

Obey's tax would combine with higher taxes already coming with the expiration of Bush's tax cuts at the end of 2010 and new taxes proposed in the health care legislation moving through Congress. A triple hit on high earners could squeeze them and drive high-risk, high-reward entrepreneurs offshore.

Brian Bethune, a U.S. economist for the firm IHS Global Insight, said his top concern with the war surtax proposal is the impact it would have on innovation through research and development that creates new wealth over the long term.

"If you put big tax burdens on that over the long term you could impair your rate of growth," Bethune said. "The question is how many surtaxes can you layer on top of one another. . . . You have to wonder, how many times you can go to that well before things start to happen?"


http://www.mcclatchydc.com/226/story/79565.html
 
remember the soviet union did the same thing with there citizen's in the afghanistan war.raised higher taxes on there citizen's to finanace it.look at what the end results were.the soviet union dissolve and there economy collapse.it took them a while to get back.but i dont think that's gonna be the same scenario for the united states.if the united states dont achieve there political,economical and military goal's in afghanistan .the united states is gonna be set back permantly in my opinion do to the national debt alone unlike what the soviet union did not have.so you could but dont quote me be looking at the last day's of the republic.
 
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Should we pay?

Hell na, Let the Chinese keep payin for it!


The Chinese aren't buying enough of our debt for us to keep going hard the way we are..Why do you think Obama hop scotched over there in the first place?
 
The Chinese aren't buying enough of our debt for us to keep going hard the way we are..Why do you think Obama hop scotched over there in the first place?
the chinese are exactly paying for your war.they are also paying for your military bases around the world to. but for how long we dont know.
 
the chinese are exactly paying for your war.they are also paying for your military bases around the world to. but for how long we dont know.

What's funnier is...

The developing world is paying for China

and

China is paying for the US.

It used to be the developing world would send to the US (and Europe) and they would manufacture their own goods.

But, it was easier to have China do the work since they wanted to be a "capitalist" country.

Of course, this only works with cheap oil.

And, that is the whole reason for the Afghanistan war.

So, let China pay the bill.

And, if they won't pay, then the US shouldn't be at war.
 
I feel that the Federal Government to should only perform what is specified in the constitution. They are spending too much money trying to do too many other things so that senators and representatives can get reelected. There should be a standard so that if the government wants to do more then they will need to pass new laws that will raise funds for the projects they want to do. They also need to raise taxes on everyone. Not just the rich or poor. I bet that if the present congress said that they need to raise taxes on everyone then healthcare wouldn't be such a "priority" that they make it out to be. In fact nothing would be that important any more if EVERYONE had to pay for it through higher taxes.
 
Hell yea!

Agreed. And I also think it should be debated in the Senate then the idea sold to the public, by republicans. Since they seem to enjoy killing people, let the American people know how much their taxes will be raised to pay for it.

-VG
 
Hell, if he cut some of the bullshit spending for other things *like the fucking useless ass stimulus* we might could afford it.

How many jobs the stimulus has created again?
 
Republicans are comedy!

werent-soldiers.jpg

Straight comedy.

Dumped BILLIONS of our tax dollars into Iraq with Billions more to go. They caused all kinds of unnecessary distress for thousands of families in Iraq, America and those other nations BushCo coerced into participating they called the 'coalition of the willing'.

We have not had a lot of media attention on what they are doing in England to investigate how they got into Iraq in the first place. Blair said he would be there for the official inquiry.

Thoughtone or QueEx, have you heard about this? If not I'll see if I can find a link somewhere.

-VG
 
Straight comedy.

Dumped BILLIONS of our tax dollars into Iraq with Billions more to go. They caused all kinds of unnecessary distress for thousands of families in Iraq, America and those other nations BushCo coerced into participating they called the 'coalition of the willing'.

We have not had a lot of media attention on what they are doing in England to investigate how they got into Iraq in the first place. Blair said he would be there for the official inquiry.

Thoughtone or QueEx, have you heard about this? If not I'll see if I can find a link somewhere.

-VG

I have thread started on it on this board. The libertarians and conservatives conveniently ignore.

http://www.bgol.us/board/showthread.php?t=443013
 
Why don't we just Print it?

The Printing Option or Monetizing Debt

If the US just prints it (monetizing debt), it leads to runaway inflation. That is what's happening now and the government sees how it is disrupting the economy.

Gold, Silver, Copper, Gas, and Food are all up double-digits from this time last year. THAT'S SERIOUS INFLATION.

Plus, since all these currencies are not backed by anything, every other country has to devalue (or inflate) or their ability to buy OIL, along with their ability to trade become disrupted.

In other words, the US ends up right back where it started and still can't buy the REAL stuff with their newly devalued paper (dollars). Yet, now it has higher unemployment, reduced consumption, and a lower tax base.

Borrowing

Yet, the government can't borrow it, if it's trying to keep interest rates low or at 0%. That is self-defeating also.

Government spending leads to inflation when a country is in recession and EXTENDS it. Look at FDR and his New Deal programs.

So, printing and borrowing are out of the question.

Reduce Spending

The government could just reduce spending and lower the people it wants to kill. But, of course, that's out of the question. Spending to government is like breathing to us. If they can't spend they can't survive.

Taxes

Finally, the government can TAX. It really is the only solution in a recessionary environment when you insist on heavy government spending (see the military).

Of course, governments hate doing this because it is so transparent to the people. When you use inflation, people can rationalize it away. But, when you use taxes, there is no getting around the fact the government is stealing your money to support itself.

It's very unpopular.
 
Muhammad " The Greatest" Ali (born Cassius Marcellus Clay Jr.)

Why should they ask me to put on a uniform and go 10,000 miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on Brown people in Vietnam while so-called Negro people in Louisville are treated like dogs and denied simple human rights? No I’m not going 10,000 miles from home to help murder and burn another poor nation simply to continue the domination of white slave masters of the darker people the world over. This is the day when such evils must come to an end. I have been warned that to take such a stand would cost me millions of dollars. But I have said it once and I will say it again. The real enemy of my people is here. I will not disgrace my religion, my people or myself by becoming a tool to enslave those who are fighting for their own justice, freedom and equality. If I thought the war was going to bring freedom and equality to 22 million of my people they wouldn’t have to draft me, I’d join tomorrow. I have nothing to lose by standing up for my beliefs. So I’ll go to jail, so what? We’ve been in jail for 400 years.


The Afghani people never called me nigg!!er. Never raped, enslaved and robbed my people. I don't have a quarrell with them. No I am not paying taxes to kill them for the U.S white racist power structure. Fuck em
 
The Afghani people never called me nigg!!er. Never raped, enslaved and robbed my people. I don't have a quarrell with them. No I am not paying taxes to kill them for the U.S white racist power structure. Fuck em

Agreed! 1000000000000%
 
Do they really?

I think the government does. The Federal Reserve doesn't want to accept reality.

After these bailouts, it's becoming clear the Federal Reserve is redundant. It has no reason to exist anymore.

So, the Fed will do everything in its power to make it seem like it is needed for the government and the economy.

But, the government knows the deal. The Federal Reserve dollars are unnecessary. However, they hold the threat of destroying the financial system if the government tries to move against them.

The day is coming when they are going to have a showdown. It may not be Obama, but one of these Presidents will do it out of political necessity.

Imagine a scenario where the government devalues the Federal Reserve Note by 90% to a newly created United States Treasury Dollar.
 
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