Scalia: Affirmative Action Sends Blacks To Schools Too Advanced For Them

Maxxam

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http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/scalia-race-affirmative-action

In the oral arguments Wednesday for a Supreme Court affirmative action case, Justice Antonin Scalia—a well known critic of affirmative action—suggested that the policy was hurting minority students by sending them to schools too academically challenging for them.

Referencing an unidentified amicus brief, Scalia said that there were people who would contend "that it does not benefit African-Americans" who don't do well in the schools that accept them under affirmative action, and that those students would be better off in the less advanced schools that they would have otherwise gone to.

He argued that "most of the black scientists in this country do not come from the most advanced schools" and that they benefit from a "slower track."

"They're being pushed into schools that are too advanced for them," Scalia said Wednesday of minority students accepted under affirmative action programs.

The case, Fisher v. University of Texas-Austin, is being brought by a white woman who was not accepted by the university and who says its policy to use race as a factor in a pool of the students it accepts is unconstitutional.

The case is unique in that the University of Texas accepts three-quarters of its students in a race-blind program (which actually was designed to increase diversity) that automatically accepts Texas high school students who are in the top 10 percent of their class. The other quarter of students are accepted through a qualitative "holistic" review that includes race along with a number of other personal and academic factors.

The challenger, Abigail Fisher, was not in the top 10 percent of her high school class and thus is challenging the holistic review program. This is the second time her case is in the Supreme Court. In 2013, the high court sent the case back to a lower court to reconsider the university's policies under a tougher standard and in 2014, that appeals court ruled in the University of Texas' favor.

In his comments Wednesday, it appears that Scalia was referencing this amicus brief written by UCLA law professor Richard Sander, who has also co-written a book called "Mismatch: How Affirmative Action Hurts Students It’s Intended to Help, and Why Universities Won’t Admit It."

A decision in Fisher v. University of Texas-Austin is expected by the end of the Supreme Court's term next summer.
 
Arguments for and against. HIs statements are sweeping but not entirely without merit or untrue.

My Sister is an educator at an elite institution and often sees what happens when minority students from underperforming or less academically rigorous schools who gained A's and such mostly because lower standards were at these school, or whose teachers began prepping the standard rounds of admittance tests very early on giving them a false diagnostic, and are in turn admitted under minority target goals set by the University administration who for the best of reasons were trying to ensure heterogeneity in the student body.

A statistically significant number - not all - but a % that is much higher than their non-minority counterparts end up having to spend the 1st academic year in remedial college courses ... mostly in Math and the Language & Communication arts (English, grammar, sentence structure, how to write a paper and cite, etc.). Then comes the mental challenge itself of the highly rigorous coursework.

Many struggle for years until they get up to speed. Some will drop out realizing they were not properly equipped and head to a less challenging university. Some will become completely crushed and leave school not returning because they know they didn't have the "smarts" to hack that level of work and were basically being lied to by their teachers and charter schools.

It is a dicey thing Affirmative Action. I personally would still rather have it in place and not need it, then to need it and not have it.
 
what a prick!!!

where is the study that shows white woman benefitted more than anyone else under affirmative action..??
 
Damn. I don't trust the Supreme Court on this one. Those Asians been starting shit about affirmative action too. I don't trust none of those fucks. If it's one thing this country has shown, they'll find a way to keep racism going with just about any excuse.
 
White women benefited more from Suffrage and the Women's Lib movement, not AA.
Jesus fucking Christ :yawn: I can already see that you are one of THOSE types of dudes. Been here for less than a week and here you are apparently pushing an agenda by interjecting your off topic and unverifiable horseshit opinion to counter a statement that you don't even seem to comprehend from your retort. o_O
 
Jesus fucking Christ :yawn: I can already see that you are one of THOSE types of dudes. Been here for less than a week and here you are apparently pushing an agenda by interjecting your off topic and unverifiable horseshit opinion to counter a statement that you don't even seem to comprehend from your retort. o_O

Please explain the basis for your comments. Do you know that the Suffrage movement was.
Women wouldn't even be able to VOTE without the Suffrage movement. They couldn't run for office. A right to go to college. etc.

So on that small anecdote alone, how could Affirmiivate Action have benefited them more, sir?

How do you get into College when you don't even have the right to apply and be reviewed fairly?

How do you build a house (AA) atop something with absolutely no foundation (Suffrage) to build upon? Do we build houses in the air?

The Liberation / Feminist Movement of the 60 and 70's gave the control of they bodies, the right to divorce, and a host of other socio-political adjustments that did not take form in law (yet) but changed the social direction for women and opened new paths which AA had only guaranteed the protection that they could do - but provided social change or means of execution for.


If you're going to be emotional about these things at least know history, logic, and law to verify your "horseshit opinion to a statement that you don't even seem to comprehend from your retort"
 
Please explain the basis for your comments. Do you know that the Suffrage movement was.
Women wouldn't even be able to VOTE without the Suffrage movement. They couldn't run for office. Go to college. etc.

So on that small anecdote alone, how could Affirmiivate Action have benefited them more, sir?

How do you build a house (AA) atop something with absolutely no foundation (Suffrage) to build upon? Do we build houses in the air?

If you're going to be emotional about these things at least know history, logic, and law to verify your "horseshit opinion to a statement that you don't even seem to comprehend from your retort"
Yes asshole you aren't the only person who knows what the women's suffrage movement is you tampon wearing weirdo.

Again you took the statement out of context so that you could push your bullshit agenda. Go back and READ what he wrote in the context it was written. Based on your retarded ass logic you would be equally serviced mentioning the Emancipation Proclamation which, AGAIN, has fuck all to do with what he was talking about. Just boneheaded.
 
Deep in my heart I do hope and believe that uncle clarence checked that piece of filth Scalia for those comments.
 
Yes asshole you aren't the only person who knows what the women's suffrage movement is you tampon wearing weirdo.

Again you took the statement out of context so that you could push your bullshit agenda. Go back and READ what he wrote in the context it was written. Based on your retarded ass logic you would be equally serviced mentioning the Emancipation Proclamation which, AGAIN, has fuck all to do with what he was talking about. Just boneheaded.

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Actually, if you took a moment to read my FIRST comment in this post you would see that in conclusion, I disagree with Scalia and want AA to remain in place.
 
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Actually, if you took a moment to read my FIRST comment in this post you would see that in conclusion, I disagree with Scalia and want AA to remain in place.
Yes I'm mad. I'm MAD AS FUCK and I'm not in the least bit embarrassed to admit that I have empathy. The lack thereof is an express characteristic of the sociopath or mentally handicapped. I see what takes place in this country to black people and I'm afraid of what might happen to my family and progeny on the whim of radicalized, heavily armed, ignorant, reactionary white people who are DESTROYING the planet. It's my personal belief that anyone who isn't on edge about what it is nothing less than the plight of humanity is either stupid or unhinged but definitely dangerous in either case. They have power and control without accountability, perspective or morality.
 
Actually, if you took a moment to read my FIRST comment in this post you would see that in conclusion, I disagree with Scalia and want AA to remain in place.
Actually dumbass, you spent most your post providing some anecdoctal bullshit from your whore sister which supports and substantiates the biased and short sighted opinion presented by Scalia. You only differed in concluding that you do think AA serves a benefit.
 
I thought the blacks they pick are in the 1 percent position of the SAT and the ACT test scores, so how are these school too advance.
 
Damn. I don't trust the Supreme Court on this one. Those Asians been starting shit about affirmative action too. I don't trust none of those fucks. If it's one thing this country has shown, they'll find a way to keep racism going with just about any excuse.

What Asians? AA is not a black thing its for all non whites and women. Asians Benefit from it too.
 
Those conservative justices are holding on to spite the potus. He should have at least appointed 3 . Some will die as judges because the gop ain't winning the potus position anytime soon.
 
Deep in my heart I do hope and believe that uncle clarence checked that piece of filth Scalia for those comments.

bruh, you know Uncle Ruckus didn't say shit, and probably agreed with him. Historically, Uncle Ruckus has sided with Scalia in most supreme court rulings.
 
Those conservative justices are holding on to spite the potus. He should have at least appointed 3 . Some will die as judges because the gop ain't winning the potus position anytime soon.

Yeah I don't think the average person understands that one of a president's greatest powers is appointing someone to the SC that will make sure his idealism last DECADES after he is gone.
 
Actually dumbass, you spent most your post providing some anecdoctal bullshit from your whore sister which supports and substantiates the biased and short sighted opinion presented by Scalia. You only differed in concluding that you do think AA serves a benefit.

As one matures, they begin to be able to see both sides and the position and argument, the contributor evidences, pick their position and disagree with the other without being disagreeable.
Not quite sure if you've made it to that stage of your life yet.

First, I said Scalia's statements were SWEEPING. Did you understand that?
Sweeping arguments often fail logical tests. So that alone should tell you I don't agree with Scalia.

I did say his OPINION does have some merit because it is not entirely untrue.
If you were anywhere near secondary and post secondary education, you would see that many black students are entering the system wholly unprepared for the academic rigors.
Black Male college enrollment is at near all time lows in America. Black Male scholastic achievement is also hitting a generational slump.

By example, Prince Georges County Maryland - the most affluent and highest per capita household income African American county in the entire county recently had its Educational Tests released and it was shocking if not disastrous. Neighboring Montgomery County, overwhelming white, and the most affluent county in the country as measured by HH Per capita income which is only 10 miles from Prince Georges was topping the charts.

Statewide, 39 percent of Maryland students scored as proficient in English, while just 29 percent were proficient in math.

Montgomery County bested the state averages -- 46 percent of its students were proficient in English, while 37 percent were proficient in math.

Meanwhile Prince George's County fell far below the state averages. 25 percent of the students there were proficient in English, while just 15 percent were proficient in math.


http://wjla.com/news/education/test-scores-released-for-prince-georges-county

25 proficient at English - 15 proficient at Math! And this is the most AFFLUENT AND EDUCATED AFRICAN AMERICAN COUNTY IN AMERICA with THE 2nd HIGHEST TAX BASE AND FINANCIAL RESOURCES in the state!

As a total sample size, not delineated for the individual, how are these kids supposed to be ready to take on the coursework and rigors of an elite institution - or any kind of institution beyond community college with those miserable scores.

75% of them can't properly apply the English language and 85% of them cannot do more than basic addition and multiplication?

So again, I can see from where Scalia developed such a sweeping opinion, and there are some elements that have truth to them based on my own observations and that of my sister, but I can't agree with him on a case by case basis or individually and I would vehemently decline to see an end of AA.
 
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Yeah I don't think the average person understands that one of a president's greatest powers is appointing someone to the SC that will make sure his idealism last DECADES after he is gone.

This is why mid term elections are important. The POTUS appoints them, but they're confirmed by the Senate. People think it doesn't matter who they send to Washington, if there are no Presidential candidates running.
 
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Please explain the basis for your comments. Do you know that the Suffrage movement was.
Women wouldn't even be able to VOTE without the Suffrage movement. They couldn't run for office. A right to go to college. etc.

So on that small anecdote alone, how could Affirmiivate Action have benefited them more, sir?

How do you get into College when you don't even have the right to apply and be reviewed fairly?

How do you build a house (AA) atop something with absolutely no foundation (Suffrage) to build upon? Do we build houses in the air?

The Liberation / Feminist Movement of the 60 and 70's gave the control of they bodies, the right to divorce, and a host of other socio-political adjustments that did not take form in law (yet) but changed the social direction for women and opened new paths which AA had only guaranteed the protection that they could do - but provided social change or means of execution for.


If you're going to be emotional about these things at least know history, logic, and law to verify your "horseshit opinion to a statement that you don't even seem to comprehend from your retort"


Someone please have this dude verify himself. He sounds like every fake deep white boy that will try to push their agenda. I see so many of these types on Reddit and other message boards.

Now that we've gotten the fact that I think your an undercover white boy out of the way here some reading for your ass to do:

http://ideas.time.com/2013/06/17/affirmative-action-has-helped-white-women-more-than-anyone/

https://www.ncsu.edu/project/oeo-training/aa/beneficiaries.htm

http://www.understandingprejudice.org/readroom/articles/affirm.htm

Wait let me post the best parts for you:

President Johnson’s initial Executive Order mandating that “affirmative action” be taken to remedy and prevent racial discrimination by government contractors was expanded to include women in 1968. By the early 1970s, any company meeting a particular threshold for number of employees and amount of business with the federal government was subject to affirmative action requirements. In cases where a “manifest imbalance” existed between the number of available, qualified women or people of color in a given location, and the number of such persons actually hired by entities in those locations, the federal government was empowered to intervene, requiring that goals and timetables for more equitable representation be set, and that good faith efforts for meeting these goals be made. Educational institutions were added to the list of covered parties beginning in 1972.

That such straightforward requirements have worked to the benefit of women — particularly white women — is hardly disputable. Thanks in large measure to affirmative action and civil rights protections that opened up previously restricted opportunities to women of all colors, from 1972-1993:

– The percentage of women architects increased from 3% to nearly 19% of the total;

– The percentage of women doctors more than doubled from 10% to 22% of all doctors;

– The percentage of women lawyers grew from 4% to 23% of the national total;

– The percentage of female engineers went from less than 1% to nearly 9%;

– The percentage of female chemists grew from 10% to 30% of all chemists; and,

– The percentage of female college faculty went from 28% to 42% of all faculty. (Moseley-Braun 1995, 8)

Furthermore, since only 1983, the percentage of women business managers and professionals grew from 41% of all such persons, to 48%, while the number of female police officers more than doubled, from 6% to 13% (U.S. Department of Commerce, Bureau of the Census 1995, Table 649). According to a 1995 study, there are at least six million women — the overwhelming majority of them white — who simply wouldn’t have the jobs they have today, but for the inroads made by affirmative action (Cose 1997, 171).

http://www.timwise.org/1998/09/is-s...women-and-the-rollback-of-affirmative-action/


Now take your dumb ass to the verification thread and prove your Black....cause I have my doubts and I want to know if I should call your dumb ass a CAC or a coon:


http://www.bgol.us/forum/index.php?...ll-identity-post.181498/page-52#post-15993953
 
Wow this is some racist bullshit, but if you are one of the kids at one of the schools he is referencing, then his view isn't very different than most teachers, counselors at the upper end universities. Shit I graduated and still remember having to fight for Every success. Black kids receive very little help and basic provisions due to this belief system. Like generational wealth, the best private schools, no police executions, expectation of superiority isn't a form of euro affirmative action.

I thought the supreme Court judges were supposed to just interpret the law, not be involved in socio economic analysis, especially when they don't have the background in that area.

One might surmise that it's the fact that very few (me included) can handle going to a school far away from home, and still graduate when you receive NO SUPPORT academically. Or couple that with the fact that all non hbcus the Black population is less than 5%, and in some upper end schools it's 1% ie 10_100 kids in the entire campus depending on the total population.

We are expected to fight through all encompassing racism, unequal education environments, police execution, judicial inequalities, population density issues, immigrant resources migration, be the most moralmoral, family's issues, color/body image problem destroyed by media/art/books/each OTHER, crime and drugs constantly supplied by the federal government , and STILL compete on a midterm?

Man Fuck this Country for its lack of empathy ...
Guess we all are supposed to have 1 million start up funds like Donald trump.

Guess we all should be like Asians who ha e reaped all the the benefits of the civil rights movement, birth right citizenship without having to fight for it... Like we have to this day
 
Interesting how this nibbls character has shown up on the new board. Curious as to what its other screen names are.
 
Interesting how this nibbls character has shown up on the new board. Curious as to what its other screen names are.
None. There was a discussion on another board about a board called BGOL.
The other board was skewing way too young and I was told this board had been in existence since the 90's.
I joined to see what it had to offer. So far it's pretty good, but the cautionary stuff and reputation I was told about is also bearing itself out to be true.
 
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