one player's impact

which of the following choices do you believe?

  • 1 player CAN'T win a game, 1 player CAN'T lose a game

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    27
ok cranrab what about adam vinatari(sp) FG in the superbowl and AFC championship game

he misses we might not ever be talking about tom brady.

which SB are you referring to? if you are talking about superbowl 38, i'd suggest that coach fox's 2 consecutive failed 2 pt conversion attempts were at least as important as adam vinatieri's 41 yd FG.

and i think the AFC championship game you mention was more a product of the "tuck rule" than anything else.

if greg buckner would have not made that error....would we ever be talking about him? and boston wins a world series?

u can't blame the media for only showing THAT moment for THAT game.

sure you can.

i'm not a baseball head, so i defer to TIME magazine's thoughts on the bill buckner play:

Bill Buckner's Error
1986, Game 6

black.gif


In reality, it was merely a fielding error in a game already tied after Boston relievers couldn't hold a two-run, two-out lead in the 10th inning of what should have been the game that gave the Red Sox a World Series win. But considering the cursed history of the Red Sox — no World Series championship since 1918; Game 7 losses in 1946, '67 and '75 — there are many who remember the play as if the World Series trophy itself rolled through first baseman Bill Buckner's legs
.

i'm sure serious baseball fans like QE or RS could offer better opinions of that play and whether or not it dictated the outcome.
 
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Look at this year's Superbowl. Big Ben was medicore at best during the game but made a great throw at the end to win it. If he had thrown it out of bounds would folks say he is still one of the best? Would Holmes have gotten praise for his great work to get down the field of he had missed that touchdown catch?
 
Big Ben was medicore at best during the game but made a great throw at the end to win it. If he had thrown it out of bounds would folks say he is still one of the best?

i would first ask did he make a great throw, or a routine throw? from his post game interviews that i've heard, he described that as a planned play they worked on. there was no improvisation or extraordinary effort required for that play to succeed, just normal execution. had he thrown a duck or an INT, it would have been sub-par execution.

one more thing about that play. after the SB, i posted a request of the route run on that play. the network only aired the pitch and the catch. but i'd like to see the actual route so we can know how much of the success of that play is due to the route running by santonio holmes.

i'd also like to see the wide shot of that play to find out what sort of D the cardinals were playing that left a hole in the back of the end zone like that.

but J2C, this is a great example for another reason: would we even be discussing THIS play if it weren't for james harrison's INCREDIBLE interception and subsequent 100 yd TD return?
 
This is a good thread...i'm not contributing much but lots of good stuff dropped in here. I hope this one stays active..
 
But I voted "NO" for the sake of baseball, the ultimate "team sport" of the majors.

Baseball.

But a single player's performance has the slightest affect in baseball.

The ultimate, and more respectable "team sport."

You seem to have given two contradictory responses but maybe I'm just tired right now. I will focus on this one.

Do you think that Reggie Jackson's 1977 WS performance in game 6 qualifies? I mean he hit 3 home runs in one game with ONLY 3 at bats. He was directly responsible for 5 of the Yankees 8 runs and the Dodgers only scored 4 runs...it was the series closer too..

your thoughts?
 
sticking with E's MLB example, what about the D side of the plate?

let's use last year's no-hitters by carlos zambrano and jon lester as examples.

of course, a pitcher going for the "no-no" needs some run support and solid fielding from his teammates, but in those specific games, is it appropriate to say that the pitcher deserves the most credit?

or not?
 
You seem to have given two contradictory responses but maybe I'm just tired right now. I will focus on this one.

Do you think that Reggie Jackson's 1977 WS performance in game 6 qualifies? I mean he hit 3 home runs in one game with ONLY 3 at bats. He was directly responsible for 5 of the Yankees 8 runs and the Dodgers only scored 4 runs...it was the series closer too..

your thoughts?

I can understand your conclusion, however, I see it as two complimentary statements to support my point.

I believe you've misinterpreted my second part. So let me rephrase that:

Of all the major team sports, an individual player's performance, has the least amount of impact in a single game of baseball.

An individual player can't simply dominate, control, or will a game (for a victory) like in other major team sports:

Elway
Mario
Jordan

There are exceptions to the rule. But it's less likely in baseball, a more strategic and sacrificial field, than any other major team sport.

You even had to go back to the 70s with your rebuttal. And to answer your question, yes it qualifies as heroism. But it's highly (scenarios as such) unlikely.

Sure, there are outstanding individual performances, such as your cited Reggie Jackson example but it also took a team effort (runs batted in and defense) to create that heroism.

As you also could argue with other team sports (blockers and assists). But I would also argue to a lesser degree of importance.


The OP initially produced an impossible, yet interesting inquiry (trap), so I presented my interpretation of that post, much to his disapproval.

I covered an area that he had not yet considered in his original post. And he didn't like that, because his propaganda mentality (basketball and Jordan) has led him to an overall narrow vision of athletics as a whole.

Not saying that he should be well versed in all team sports. I wouldn't hold any poster to that standard. But if you're going to be that broad with an inquiry ("all team sports"), at least understand the whole spectrum in which you're referring to.


sticking with E's MLB example, what about the D side of the plate?

let's use last year's no-hitters by carlos zambrano and jon lester as examples.

of course, a pitcher going for the "no-no" needs some run support and solid fielding from his teammates, but in those specific games, is it appropriate to say that the pitcher deserves the most credit?

or not?

A majority of the credit? Sure.

And I see you thought about that: what it takes to pitch a "no-hitter."

And this response only further solidifies my point:

Baseball is the ultimate team sport in America.

No one player wins or loses the game, generally speaking, as such your original question(s).
 
your convoluted thinking is astonishing. "red and black" cape? really? if that wasn't so wildly off base, it would be amusing. instead, it's just sad.

in this thread, i gave specific examples from NCAA football, NCAA basketball, the NBA and the NFL.

in this thread, i explored winning scenarios, losing scenarios, and moments in between.

what did you bring to the table? as usual, NOTHING. no specifics, just a vague reference to baseball.

An amusing and good ramble. I can't refute a lot of it but the cape is still showing.

EDIT: i see what happened. one of your other screennames was 1 of the dudes who "believed" that scottie pippen checked earvin johnson in the finals and you got heated.

Let's not get into this Cranrab.

Stop that. You're doing something that starts with PRO and ends with a G.

No multi-s here. I have too much integrity for that. My online or offline status is always available. Always has been.

I represent A Tribe Called AK_Rep and that tribe solely. You need to understand that.

I dig into crevices (threads) unvisited (thanks wise) by yourself (Crarab) and many others on BGOL members under my one and only screen name.

Multi-s are very unsportsmanlike.

Cut it out.


for clarity's sake, you cast a vote for "CAN'T win a game, CAN lose a game". "NO" was not an option in this poll.

and as you pointed out, but apparently couldn't reconcile the difference between the two, i asked about 1 player's performance dictating the outcome, not whether or not a game is impacted by a single player.

That's stupid. Of course it's "yes" technically, "for clarity's sake." Are you going nano here?

If so, say it!

Stop nitpicking if you've provided no solid parameters in your original inquiry.

"No" is an option if you sift through the BS and produce a point.

The phrase "all things considered" is not apart of your thought process.

Call me lazy but I've supplied you with evidence and facts before (other threads) only to be overlooked and thrown out the window by your ultimate goal. I will not entertain you.

But It's your house, your thread, your parameters so I'll give you that respect and follow them.

This could've been a more interesting topic had you initially provided a thesis and set some parameters, instead of setting up a trap to teach us a lesson.

But hey, I didn't think of it. Good post OP. You've provoked some thought.

Sincerely, really.
 
Of all the major team sports, an individual player's performance, has the least amount of impact in a single game of baseball.

An individual player can't simply dominate, control, or will a game (for a victory) like in other major team sports:
]

That makes sense.

You even had to go back to the 70s with your rebuttal. And to answer your question, yes it qualifies as heroism. But it's highly (scenarios as such) unlikely.

It wasn't a rebuttal. It was just a basic question. I wasn't arguing for or against. I was seriously asking your opinion on it since you are fan of baseball. I could have given a recent performance, but who better to use than Mr. October.
 
Look at this year's Superbowl. Big Ben was medicore at best during the game but made a great throw at the end to win it. If he had thrown it out of bounds would folks say he is still one of the best? Would Holmes have gotten praise for his great work to get down the field of he had missed that touchdown catch?

Good response.

Apparently I took the original post out of context. Which was not a longshot.

This is probably what the OP was looking for. And I put myself at fault for that.

This statement would've been an interesting opening argument.

Thread Title: One Player's Impact

Initial Post: Look at this year's Superbowl . . .

There's a lot of substance here and a lot to be researched and discussed.
 
This could've been a more interesting topic had you initially provided a thesis and set some parameters, instead of setting up a trap to teach us a lesson.

But hey, I didn't think of it. Good post OP. You've provoked some thought.

Sincerely, really.

this was an entirely interesting thread on its own before you decided to vomit your trolling agenda all over it. you entered with your biased slant, and responded with the same distorted skew.

no other thread on the SPORTS board has received as many views AND replies in such a short time. have you yet offered a single SPECIFIC example which represents your view in this post? bravo.

and for the record, i weigh each of your replies individually; i grant you a clean slate with each post you make. unfortunately you always make it clear that you have trolling in mind rather than contributions to the topic(s).

you assert i was trying to teach a lesson. what was it?

you assert i used propaganda. where?

your words betray you.
 
interesting that your vote does not reflect your opinion as stated above.

You riddler.

But you know what I meant to vote for: No one player can win or lose a game, generally in baseball.

I'll take an L on this particular aspect (poll) of this thread.

You got me.

Good rebuttal, damn good placement (poll questions) and good follow up.

I'll be back though. Understand that.
 
at the end of the day the game winning shots over cloud all the other 47 minutes.

like all those stats you said about horry and fisher...i had no idea about....i just remember that exact moment.

If Kobe hits a buzzer beater in the Finals but had a bad game, people will remember the buzzer beater. It's sad but it's true.

both of you mentioned how last second actions can color the overall memory of individual GAMES.

but here is an example of a single game performance skewing the perception of an entire SERIES:

people (many of which never even saw the entire series) often speak about earvin johnson's fantastic G6 performance in the 1980 NBA finals. earvin johnson's performance was special not only because he was highly productive, but because he was a 20 year old rookie who stepped up his game and filled in for injured kareem abdul jabbar.

kareem abdul jabbar played in 5 NBA finals games, averaging 33.4 ppg, 13.6 rebounds per game, and 4.6 blocks per game. :eek:

but solely on the strength of the earvin johnson's G6 performance, earvin johnson was awarded the NBA finals MVP.

earvin johnson played in 6 NBA finals games, averaging 21.5 ppg, 11.2 rebounds per game, and 8.7 assists per game.

IMO, earvin johnson not only did not deserve the finals MVP (i would have given it to kareem abdul jabbar, especially after his G5 performance), but he also wasn't the player who sparked the G6 victory. IMO that credit goes to jamaal wilkes.
 
I don't know man. After Kareem got hurt after game 5, most experts had them set up for dead after that. Johnson's performance notwithstanding, taking Darrell Dawkins out of the game like that is one of the main reasons why the Lakers won game 6. Dawkins was all set to be the dominant factor and Magic almost made him disappear

IMO, that more than any other factor is what lead the Lakers to winning game 6
 
I don't know man. After Kareem got hurt after game 5, most experts had them set up for dead after that.

G5 was one of the most memorable NBA finals games in history, but will never be remembered that way because it got overshadowed by G6. G5 was kareem abdul jabbar's "willis reed moment". series tied 2-2, kareem abdul jabbar gets injured during G5. kareem abdul jabbar comes back in the 2nd half with a sprained ankle and dominates the 76ers on a way to the win and a 3-2 series lead.

it was understandable that the "experts" felt the series was over, seeing as how dominant kareem abdul jabbar was in the first 5 games, and i'll admit i was surprised that the 76ers couldn't win G6. it took the 76ers a few minutes to adjust to earvin johnson in the 1st half, but they did.

it was jamaal wilkes' Q3 explosion that pushed the fakers out to the lead and of all people to hold down the middle in kareem abdul jabbar's absence? jim chones. :eek:
 
for those who may have not ever seen any of the close out G6 from the 1980 NBA finals:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYNDWaEmqto

for the keen viewers, you will note from the video that rookie earvin johnson had not yet discovered the art of ref baiting which became his shameful legacy to professional basketball. later in his career, EVERY trip into the paint was announced with a shriek or "hey!" to bait referees into calling phantom fouls.

notice how earvin johnson's plays in the paint IN THIS VIDEO are beautifully FREE and ABSENT of any of his acting and trickery.
 
^^ Amazing performance by a rookie.....and Dr. J's game was jus beautiful...just straight graceful...
 
for the keen viewers, you will note from the video that rookie earvin johnson had not yet discovered the art of ref baiting which became his shameful legacy to professional basketball

because Andrew Toney wasn't in the league yet.
Also, there were no Euros to learn it from either
:lol:
 
what about lebron in game 5 in 2007 against the pistons


[flash]http://www.youtube.com/v/d1Px-jPm_TU&hl=en&fs=1[/flash]

great find.

you found an excellent example of 1 player dictating the positive outcome of a game, while making it impossible for an individual to focus solely on the final shot in 2OT.

the rest of the cavaliers' STARTING frontcourt (drew gooden, zydrunas ilgauskas) fouled out of that game, and lebron james carried his team to a victory with a run of consecutive made FGAs.

IMO, that game broke the spirit of the detroit pistons, which lead to the blowout in G6. in the first 5 games of the series, no game had been decided by more than 6 points. but after G5, the pistons got closed out by a 16 point margin.
 
Nice thread.

Although I've seen one player win games and lose games, I think the latter is much more likely to happen and that is why I voted for "A player can't win a game but a player can lose a game"
 
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