Obama Supporters on Far Left Cry Foul

Not because you refuse to accept; but, perhaps, because you refuse to see political realities. I'm not happy with the outcome either but professionally I believe that I understand the art of settlement which often involves engaging in reasoned compromise.

Politics is a blood sport. You may compromises if your opponent is amenable to compromise. Either way, you wait for your opponent to blink and then you have the upper hand in the compromise. Obama blinked and his opponents got the upper hand.

Blood sport? Perhaps, you're right. But it is not brute athleticism or brawn that wins, its acute intellectualism. If you haven't already, in your spare time read and understand Plato's Allegory of the Cave -- a/k/a -- the Myth of the Cave.​


Unless you have the might to force your desired outcome to the exclusion of the other side, you can never have it exactly the way you want it. And, even if you have that kind of might, invariably it tends to lead to ones eventual downfall.

[1] You assume that the opponent has legitimate points of view in the argument.

[2]Some things, let me re-phrase, most things are not gray, but if you are at heart a centrist with no true convictions then you will enter in negotiations with the goal of giving in on your core convictions.​


[1] Do you presume that the opponent doesn't ??? Am I to presume that only YOU have legitimate points ??? I would respectfully urge that you never, ever, underestimate your opponent. Even a broken clock is right at least twice a day.

[2] Interesting T.O. Where did you get that "no true convictions" definition/bullshit from ??? LOL. BTW, rarely does any one side have a monopoly on the truth. Even a bad argument has some merit or truth (GW wasn't wrong about everything), therefore, things may be grayer than you give credit. But that, my friend, is why the <u>Far</u> Left and <u>Far</u> Right are usually at odds with everyone else! - because they tend to believe only that their particular view is, the shit.


In this case, even prior to the midterms when the democrats out numbered republicans in "name" (i.e., they all called themselves democrats), the political reality was the party was fractured ideologically (the dems are of every stripe from conservative, moderate, centrist, and left to far left). Hence, even when the democrats held the "Name" advantage, it did not necessarily hold the ideological advantage. Despite that incongruity, some things were successfully pushed, but they seem to have come at a costly price.

In reality, it has been only a hand full of Democrats mucking up the works. In congress, just about every piece of legislations passed and then sent to the Senate. The right wing talking point that Nancy Pelosi is a failure is just a lie. She has accomplished more than just about any modern Speaker of the House. Now the Senate is another story. Due to the rules of the super majority of the Senate, the minority has managed to assert themselves. Four senators that claim to caucus with the Democrats have managed to allow the label of ineffective Senate to flourish. Well since the midterms, the majority of the conservative and so called moderate democratic senators were voted out. The liberal and progressive Congressional Democrats are now stronger than before. And in the Senate, the Democrats still have a majority. May be the Democratic party is in the process of purging themselves the way the Republicans have done over the last 15 years?

Who elected those hand full of Democrats ??? Did they elect themselves??? If not, would it not be more accurate to say that segments of the nation's population are mucking up the works ??? My point: representatives tend to reflect the tenor of those who put them there. Right or wrong ???

This is why labels can be terribly misleading. Each person under the Democratic or Republican tent is not the same as every other democrat or republican under the tent. There is diversity of beliefs among those demcrats and republicans and there is diversity of beliefs among the politicians who must answer to diversity of each of their respective constituencies.​


Emotional? I'm a proud lefty! And if you think my views are far left, you are definitely under the age of 35. The US has moved so far right, that the center is actually tilting right. Remember Nixon got impeached for a lot less than what GW did!

I guess you think the criticism of the corporatisation of our society should be tempered. That goodness for Julian Assange. At least one journalist is doing their job!
T.O., I like lefties. They are some of the most crafty people I know, i.e.: since you've been in the ATL for some time, Tom Glavine comes to mind. He didn't have over-powering stuff; moved the ball in and out well; kept hitters off-balanced with great off-speed stuff to make a hitter reach but was known to bust a fastball in at the belt, now and then, (his 83 'ish fastball then looked 90 'ish), for called strike three. In other words, he threw a helluva intellectual game. If, on the other hand, he tried to pound-it, more of his pitches would land in the bleachers than in someone's glove. Get it? If not, Go back to the 'blood sport' comment, above.



QueEx​
 
Tea Party, Liberal Democrats, Unusual Allies


Tea party and liberal Democrats
make unusual allies​

On Capitol Hill, the Libya intervention has elicited antiwar
voices from opposite ends of the political spectrum. Their
point in common: The power to make war resides with Congress.



0321_LibyaCongress_full_380.jpg

Texas Republican Rep. Ron Paul addresses supporters during
the Tea Party Summit on Saturday Feb. 26, in Phoenix. Paul
and fellow Tea Partyers along with unlikely allies, liberal Dem-
ocrats, are saying the power of war lies with Congress. Darryl
Webb/AP



Christian Science Monitor
By Gail Russell Chaddock,
Staff writer
March 21, 2011



WASHINGTON - Since the first US and allied bombers hit targets in Libya early Sunday morning, the rare voices of protest from Capitol Hill have been coming from a handful of lawmakers on the libertarian right wing of the Republican Party or the antiwar left of the Democratic Party.

These caucuses are ideological bookends on the hot-button fiscal and social issues currently before the Congress. While not meeting formally, they have found common ground in opposition to directing US military firepower in Libya without explicit authorization from Congress.

“Imposing a no-fly zone over a country is an act of war,” said Rep. Ron Paul (R) of Texas, noting that the air war over Libya occurred on the anniversary of the US attack on Iraq. Like Iraq, “this could go on for a long time,” despite White House claims to the contrary, he added.

On the left, Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D) of Ohio said: “War from the air is still war,” and called on Congress to be called back into session immediately to decide whether or not to authorize the United States’ participation in a military strike. “Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution clearly states that the United States Congress has the power to declare war. The president does not. That was the founders’ intent.”

Many in the 87-member Republican freshman class campaigned to rein in the federal role and limit all legislation to what is strictly defined by the US Constitution. But so far, few even in that class have taken a stand to demand a more robust congressional approval of US military actions in Libya.

“It's not enough for the President simply to explain military actions in Libya to the American people, after the fact, as though we are serfs,” said freshman Rep. Justin Amash (R) of Michigan in a Facebook post. “When there is no imminent threat to our country, he cannot launch strikes without authorization from the American people, through our elected Representatives in Congress. No United Nations resolution or congressional act permits the President to circumvent the Constitution,” he added.


Robert Byrd's relentless floor speeches

Congress has been famously reluctant to take on executive war powers since World War II and the Vietnam War era. In the run-up to the Iraq war, the late Sen. Robert Byrd (D) of West Virginia delivered relentless floor speeches to his colleagues of the importance of congressional war powers. Since then, few lawmakers have fought for congressional war powers, especially in the face of a president of their own party.

“The only way you get authority under our Constitution [to go to war] is from the Congress,” says Louis Fisher, who recently retired after four decades at the Library of Congress as senior specialist in separation of powers. Responding to congressional claims that the United Nations or NATO can legitimate the use of US force in Libya, he added: “President and the Congress through the treaty process cannot give away congressional power.”

“The framers knew the last thing anybody would want is an executive who would go to war unilaterally because they had watched countries suffer so much from countries getting involved in horrible wars. War had to be authorized by the country’s representatives,” he added.

On March 17, 8 Republicans and 85 Democrats voted to assert congressional power to order US forces out of Afghanistan. The measure failed, 93 to 321, with Congressman Amash voting “present.”

Two-term Rep. Jason Chaffetz of Utah, one of the eight Republicans voting for the measure, was also one of the first members of Congress to object to a US military role in Libya. “I disagree with the use of US force in Libya,” he said in a Facebook post on March 19. “Projection of US force should be used to combat a clear and present danger to the United States of America. In this case, I see none.”

“There is a problem that members of Congress don’t want the responsibility of making decisions about war and peace,” says David Boaz, executive vice president of the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank. “It is partly that presidents arrogate to themselves the power to make these life and death decisions, but it is also the case that Congress lets them.”

So far, top lawmakers have limited themselves to requests for a more detailed explanation of the mission, some noting regret that President Obama did not take action sooner to protect Libyan civilians.

In a hearing of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee last Thursday, the chairman, Sen. John Kerry (D) of Massachusetts, urged the Obama administration to heed the “new Arab awakening,” the Arab League’s call for a United Nations no-fly zone, and “seize the moment and recognize the opportunity it presents.”

Since the attacks, congressional leaders on both sides of the aisle have emphasized the need to limit the scope of the US role in Libya. “With the full and unprecedented backing of the Arab League and the United Nations, US forces, along with our allies, are enforcing a no-fly zone over Libya. I support this limited, international action,” said Sen. Richard Durbin, assistant majority leader and a member of the foreign relations panel. “I also agree with President Obama; no US ground forces should be used in this operation and it must remain limited in scope and duration.”


Ensuring limited scope

At issue for House Republican leaders, who so far are speaking with one voice on this issue, is ensuring that the scope and purpose of the mission remain limited. "The president is the commander-in-chief, but the administration has a responsibility to define for the American people, the Congress, and our troops what the mission in Libya is, better explain what America’s role is in achieving that mission, and make clear how it will be accomplished," said Speaker John Boehner (R) of Ohio, in a statement on March 20.

“The speaker supports the efforts of our troops, but this administration must do a better job of communicating to the American people and to Congress about the scope and purpose of our mission in Libya, America’s role, and how it will be achieved,” said Boehner spokesman Michael Steel, in an e-mail.

Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R) of Florida, who chairs the House Foreign Affairs Committee, called on the president to “clearly define for the American people what vital United States security interests he believes are currently at stake in Libya.” “Deferring to the United Nations and calling on our military personnel to enforce the 'writ of the international community' sets a dangerous precedent,” she said in a statement.

On the Senate side, Sen. Richard Lugar (R) of Indiana had called for a declaration of war by the Congress before any military action in Libya. Failing that, the president now needs to clarify the mission. “Now, the president has been very clear; no American boots on the ground, no ground troops, no American aircraft over Libya. … But we really have not discovered who it is in Libya that we are trying to support,” he said on CBS’ “Face the Nation.”

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politi...rty-and-liberal-Democrats-make-unusual-allies
 
Re: Tea Party, Liberal Democrats, Unusual Allies

I think its at home right here.
 
You see what moving to the right, I mean center is doing to President Obama?

President Obama constantly adopts language of right calling Social Security an etitlement

Does this prove that you may be Far Left, from which point everything else appears right ? ? ?


Ignoring liberal Dems, Obama endorses longer payroll tax holiday through 2012


<CENTER>
Dems Finding Success in Center

The Democratic Party has claimed the middle
of the political spectrum by running more
centrist and conservative candidates



</CENTER>

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the far left movement is all but DEAD in this country...fuck em.

obama is doing the right thing.


Oh yea? In 4 to 8 years, the corpitist's will have this country so fucked up, that the people will be begging for another FDR!
BTW, He is still my President and i back him, but he is operating from a skewed perspective.

source: Huffington Post


While Whacking Critics, Obama Gets Facts Wrong


WASHINGTON -- While arguing at Tuesday's press conference that his progressive critics are being sanctimonious and overly pure, President Obama flatly misstated the history of the Social Security program and disregarded the central intent of the public health insurance option.

Both concerns were raised Wednesday by economics blogger and former Clinton Treasury official Brad DeLong.

At the press conference (see the transcript), Obama defended his controversial decision to give in to Republican demands for a massive tax cut for the rich on the grounds that "in order to get stuff done, we're going to compromise."

His prime example: "This is why FDR, when he started Social Security, it only affected widows and orphans. You did not qualify. And yet now it is something that really helps a lot of people."

As it happens, Obama said the same thing in October, in an interview with Comedy Central's Jon Stewart: "When Social Security was passed, it applied to widows and orphans and it was a very restricted program, and over time that structure that was built ended up developing into the most important social safety net that we have in our country." That did not go unnoticed in the blogosphere, either.

Obama's overall point -- that Social Security wasn't born fully grown -- was exactly right. But his facts were exactly wrong. The Social Security Act, as first signed into law by Franklin Delano Roosevelt in 1935, paid retirement benefits to the primary worker -- and not to their widows and orphans. It wasn't until a 1939 change that the law added benefits for survivors and for the retiree's spouse and children.

It's possible that Obama was confusing FDR's law with what some consider a precursor of sorts, the Civil War Pension program. That program, which dates back to 1862, provided benefits linked to disabilities incurred in the war and pensions for widows and orphans.
The White House press office chose not to address the issue.

Less objectively false, and yet more offensive to progressives, was Obama's dismissive remark about the hard-fought battle to establish a government-run insurance program as an option in case the private market failed to provide consumers with adequate and reasonably priced policies. Here's what Obama said about that:
[T]his notion that somehow we are willing to compromise too much reminds me of the debate that we had during health care. This is the public option debate all over again. So I pass a signature piece of legislation where we finally get health care for all Americans, something that Democrats had been fighting for for a hundred years, but because there was a provision in there that they didn't get that would have affected maybe a couple of million people, even though we got health insurance for 30 million people and the potential for lower premiums for 100 million people, that somehow that was a sign of weakness and compromise.​
To support Obama's statement, an administration official pointed the Huffington Post toward a November 2009 Congressional Budget Office memo's conclusion that "Roughly one out of eight people purchasing coverage through the exchanges would enroll in the public plan, CBO estimates, meaning that total enrollment in that plan would be 3 million to 4 million."

But, Obama's fairly large rounding error aside, the public option was not simply a matter of enrollees. What the president conspicuously disregarded was that the central point of the public option was that its existence would exert enormous competitive pressure on the private insurance system. The goal was not to serve a particularly large number of people directly -- that would only happen if the private offerings were terribly inadequate. The goal was to keep the private sector honest. So no matter how many people it enrolled, "the provision," as Obama put it "would have affected" tens of millions.

There were also a few problems with the rhetorical structure of Obama's comments. If he truly believes that good things start small, like Social Security did, then criticizing the public option for starting small isn't logically consistent. And the tax cut he agreed to is hardly a half measure in the right direction; it's a colossal collapse in the wrong direction.


<CENTER>*************************</CENTER>
 
President Obama constantly adopts language of right calling Social Security an etitlement

spellcheck

Oh yea? In 4 to 8 years, the corpitist's will have this country so fucked up, that the people will be begging for another FDR!

spellcheck & factcheck.

Obama IS a corporatist! Bought & Paid for by Wall Street. How else can you explain the bankers & multi-nationals being exempt from taxes / provided waivers etc?
 
spellcheck



spellcheck & factcheck.

spellcheck



spellcheck & factcheck.

spell check & Factcheck

Obama IS a corporatist! Bought & Paid for by Wall Street. How else can you explain the bankers & multi-nationals being exempt from taxes / provided waivers etc?

How else can you explain the bankers & multi-nationals being exempt from taxes / provided waivers etc?[/

Difficult, but you are against corporate taxes too. How else can you explain that!
 
Difficult, but you are against corporate taxes too. How else can you explain that!

You tryin to put words into my mouth. I'm against oppressive taxes that diminish our competitiveness abroad, against exemptions for 'special' individuals and waivers which give a competitive advantage in the market
 
You tryin to put words into my mouth. I'm against oppressive taxes that diminish our competitiveness abroad, against exemptions for 'special' individuals and waivers which give a competitive advantage in the market

I'm against oppressive taxes that diminish our competitiveness abroad, against exemptions


That makes a lot of sense:confused:
 
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