Obama saves the Palestinians but ignores the Haitians and Liberians

Cruise

Star
Registered
Hooray for the "black" President who cares so much about "black" people.

Obama Decrees: Massive Immigration of Hamas Refugees from Gaza

President Barack Obama has signed a presidential determination allowing hundreds of thousands of Palestinians to resettle in the United States. Sure, what can go wrong when we allow hundreds of thousands of people who have been, as Mark Steyn memorably described, "marinated" in a "sick death cult," who voted for Hamas, and 55% of whom support suicide bombings live here and at the American taxpayers' expense:

By executive order, President Barack Obama has ordered the expenditure of $20.3 million in migration assistance to the Palestinian refugeesand conflict victims in Gaza.

The "presidential determination" which allows hundreds of thousands of Palestinians with ties to Hamas to resettle in the United States was signed on January 27 and appeared in the Federal Register on February 4.

U.S. immigration authorities say they've ordered 30,000 Haitians to leave the country.

Liberians facing mass deportation from U.S.
 
Hooray for the "black" President who cares so much about "black" people.

Obama Decrees: Massive Immigration of Hamas Refugees from Gaza

President Barack Obama has signed a presidential determination allowing hundreds of thousands of Palestinians to resettle in the United States. Sure, what can go wrong when we allow hundreds of thousands of people who have been, as Mark Steyn memorably described, "marinated" in a "sick death cult," who voted for Hamas, and 55% of whom support suicide bombings live here and at the American taxpayers' expense:

By executive order, President Barack Obama has ordered the expenditure of $20.3 million in migration assistance to the Palestinian refugeesand conflict victims in Gaza.

The "presidential determination" which allows hundreds of thousands of Palestinians with ties to Hamas to resettle in the United States was signed on January 27 and appeared in the Federal Register on February 4.

U.S. immigration authorities say they've ordered 30,000 Haitians to leave the country.

Liberians facing mass deportation from U.S.
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Cruise, Give My Response the Following Headline:
Cheap shot. Misleading. Self hate.


There are a number of things I could say about the ignorance above, but because of the rule against name calling, I won't. I'll settle, for now, with pointing out that the crap you posted above smells like self hate and at a minimum amounts to a misleading cheap shot.

One of your supporters, the poster named Lamarr, pointed out in another thread that he thought you were really smart, maybe so, if that means searching the internet for right-wing hate pieces and posting them here as news -- and thinking we wouldn't know any damn better. LOL. All one has to do is follow the link to the hatchet-job bullshit-trying-to pass-for-facts article from The New Media Journal where you pulled that garbage of opinion from.

Here's a copy of the Federal Register bearing the action that the President took:


<IFRAME SRC="http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2009/E9-2488.htm" WIDTH=780 HEIGHT=1500>
<A HREF="http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2009/E9-2488.htm">link</A>

</IFRAME>

As perhaps even you can see Mr. Cruise, Presidential Determination No. 2009-15 did not authorize the immigration of anyone into this country. On the contrary, it authorized the expenditure of "up to" $20.3 million "for the purpose of meeting unexpected and urgent refugee and migration needs, including by contributions to international, governmental, and nongovernmental organizations and payment of administrative expenses of Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration of the Department of State, related to humanitarian needs of Palestinian refugees and conflict victims in Gaza."

AND WHY DID PRESIDENT OBAMA offer such assistance ??? Only a couple of days before he signed Presidential Determination No. 2009-15, the United Nations issued an urgent request to member nations to provide $613 Million Dollars in assistance to rebuild the infrastructure in Gaza damaged in the Israeli assault on the Gaza Strip.

See this article from the Los Angeles Times:


<IFRAME SRC="http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-fg-gaza30-2009jan30,0,6420353.story" WIDTH=780 HEIGHT=1500>
<A HREF="http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-fg-gaza30-2009jan30,0,6420353.story">link</A>



</IFRAME>


So, one has to think:

- Either you're really smart and posted this bullshit to test us dummies; or

- You believed the bullshit, and posted it to prove it to us dummies; or

- In your quickness to hate on one of your own, you posted misleading lies put out by extremist, not giving a damn about the truth.



:smh: :smh: :smh:



QueEx

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- Either you're really smart and posted this bullshit to test us dummies; or

- You believed the bullshit, and posted it to prove it to us dummies; or

- In your quickness to hate on one of your own, you posted misleading lies put out by extremist, not giving a damn about the truth.

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:smh: :smh: :smh:



QueEx

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Woooooh chief did you not warn me about going hard in this forum?:lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
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Cruise, Give My Response the Following Headline:
Cheap shot. Misleading. Self hate.


There are a number of things I could say about the ignorance above, but because of the rule against name calling, I won't. I'll settle, for now, with pointing out that the crap you posted above smells like self hate and at a minimum amounts to a misleading cheap shot.

One of your supporters, the poster named Lamarr, pointed out in another thread that he thought you were really smart, maybe so, if that means searching the internet for right-wing hate pieces and posting them here as news -- and thinking we wouldn't know any damn better. LOL. All one has to do is follow the link to the hatchet-job bullshit-trying-to pass-for-facts article from

Here's a copy of the Federal Register bearing the action that the President took:

As perhaps even you can see Mr. Cruise, Presidential Determination No. 2009-15 did not authorize the immigration of anyone into this country. On the contrary, it authorized the expenditure of "up to" $20.3 million "for the purpose of meeting unexpected and urgent refugee and migration needs, including by contributions to international, governmental, and nongovernmental organizations and payment of administrative expenses of Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration of the Department of State, related to humanitarian needs of Palestinian refugees and conflict victims in Gaza."

So, one has to think:

- Either you're really smart and posted this bullshit to test us dummies; or

- You believed the bullshit, and posted it to prove it to us dummies; or

- In your quickness to hate on one of your own, you posted misleading lies put out by extremist, not giving a damn about the truth.



:smh: :smh: :smh:



QueEx

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I seem to have hit a lot of nerves.

It is insulting and presumptuous to say Obama is one of my own. He represents my community and interests about as much as Rush Limbaugh, Armstrong Williams, Clarence Thomas, or David Duke.

Despite Obama pledge, Justice defends Bush secrets

Despite President Obama's promise of more open government, the Justice Department is resisting pressure to release documents the Bush administration kept secret about domestic wiretapping, data collection on travelers and U.S. citizens, and interrogation of suspected terrorists.

Because I don't worship at the altar of Obama, that is supposed to be self-hate? Could someone please explain to me how this half-white warmongerer represents anything about me or my community? :confused:

If your best defense is he is only giving tens of millions of dollars to non-Africans while slave descendants and Africans are being kicked out of the country whle this "black" President remains silent, then let's say, it's hardly convincing to me.

U.S. resumes deportations to Haiti

Pro-Obama Haitian-Americans want help

Liberia celebrates Obama win as African victory

Liberians hope for reprieve

Weah is one of about 4,000 Liberians across the country who've been living in the U.S. under a temporary status for years. And unless something changes, they'll all have to leave the country at the end of March when their deportation order goes into effect.

Maybe, the Haitians and Liberians aren't real "blacks" in Obama's eyes unless they have a white momma.

Obama is the new, more sinister form of the white boy bootlick. While Pastor Manning, Jessie Lee Peterson, and Condoleeza Rice generate a fair amount of contempt for their obvious white but-kissing, Obama takes it in another direction. He proclaims himself "black" every chance he gets, while puckering his lips and bending over for every aggrieved group BUT "black" people.

When people complain, other "blacks" come to the defense of the bootlick, not realizing they are working against their own interests to advance white supremacy.

Obama is in a great position to show the world, "black" people aren't squat when it comes to ruling a nation. He is just like those corrupt African dictators, Caribbean puppets, and American do-nothings.

It is amazing (and amusing) people get so emotional over this sellout (but I guess he's not really a sellout if he always identified with whitey :yes:).

I can guarantee you this, if he keeps it up, he is going to be a 1-term mistake, because African-Americans in this country are going to see through his BS and his empty words and kick him out on his ass.

They are going to ask themselves this simple question, what the hell has Obama done for "black" people in 4 years as President?
 
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Once again, your words prove my every point.

Man, listen to yourself. Can't you see all that whinning you're doing ???

Seriously, can't you see how you got it bad ? ? ?

The man hasn't been in office 2 good days and you're all up his ass because he hasn't solved all of the worlds problems in a single day. Give it a break mayne.

Listen up; as sure as there is a sunrise, Mr. Obama will make mistakes. When that happens, please be my guest and hit him where he's wrong.

In the meantime, relax and please take something for that thing you seem to suffer from. Otherwise, hate is going to blow a vessel.

QueEx
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Once again, your words prove my every point.

Man, listen to yourself. Can't you see all that whinning you're doing ???

Seriously, can't you see how you got it bad ? ? ?

The man hasn't been in office 2 good days and you're all up his ass because he hasn't solved all of the worlds problems in a single day. Give it a break mayne.

Listen up; as sure as there is a sunrise, Mr. Obama will make mistakes. When that happens, please be my guest and hit him where he's wrong.

In the meantime, relax and please take something for that thing you seem to suffer from. Otherwise, hate is going to blow a vessel.

QueEx
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Of course, when it doesn't meet your personal approval it's whining.

Sure, I can accept that.

Before it was...

he hasn't been nominated...
he hasn't been elected...
he hasn't been inducted...

Now, it's

a month isn't long enough

Then, it's

a year isn't long enough
a decade isn't long enough
a lifetime isn't long enough.

When do the excuses stop? He is the freaking President. Many immigration, criminal, and justice issues plaguing slave descendants could be stopped today. Issue an Executive Order. So what's the delay?

Obama is breaking his ass to save Wall Street (a mistake), the bankers and banks (another mistake), increase the Federal government (another mistake), and rob every man, woman, and child in sight and giving it to the special honkeys and Jews.

He made a mistake on almost every appointment (Hillary Clinton - dumb, Geithner - criminal, Holder - lackey, Richardson - strange, Gates - WTF).

He messed up on the bailout, the stimulus, and support of big government solutions.

At what point is he held accountable for his statements, actions, appointments, policies, and legislation?
At what point do people say "why are you silent here but vocal there?"
At what point do people say "His policies are no better than Bush?"

At what point do people say "screw the black stuff, what has he really done for me (that's better than Bush)?"

Obama is putting himself in place for a collosal collapse in confidence if he doesn't get some backbone and fight the pull of the system toward doom.

Personally, Obama's behavior betrays how "green" he is at being a leader (since he's never lead anything in his life). He is naive, inexperienced, and clueless about the impact of his decisions. He's being lead around by the nose by more experienced and savvy insiders. He is their man, not ours.

Bush was a dummy but at least he had his father's pedigree, contacts, and credentials to lend credibility.

What does Obama have?

So many are blinded with Obama love, they refuse to see what's happening and what's coming.
 
Personally, Obama's behavior betrays how "green" he is at being a leader (since he's never lead anything in his life). He is naive, inexperienced, and clueless about the impact of his decisions. He's being lead around by the nose by more experienced and savvy insiders. He is their man, not ours.

Bush was a dummy but at least he had his father's pedigree, contacts, and credentials to lend credibility.

This would be laughable if you really didn't believe. You could call Obama lots of things and be justified. However, as he's proven, calling him naive, inexperienced, and clueless almost undeniable alludes that the one making the accusations is guilty of their own labels. Even his most virulent enemies, despite their disagreement with his policy, fully admit Obama is the one of the most calculating, intelligent, and capable men they've encountered in their entire political lives...and that is what makes him even that much more dangerous to their party. Unlike Clinton, who allowed himself to be cap-sided, by over-reaching and overspending his political capital early, Obama is much more calculating and the GOP knows that any type of economic recover is setting them up for a mid-term elections spanking that will put their party underwater for possibly decades with the losses they could have in the House and Senate...much less the GOP governorships that are vulnerable as well.

:lol: @ at Bush had his father's contacts, pedigree, etc to lend him credibility. His father's contacts, which pretty much ran his administration, are THE problem that has caused damn near every major catastrophe we have at the moment...and if they didn't cause it, they perpetuated the problem. This is not confusing correlation with causation either. I don't have the time now to repost things I posted over and over again on this board...some of which, I've called years ago in threads because I was fortune enough to be in Washington and visit places like Iraq(I was on the first non-military flight into Baghdad after the war started) The neo conservatives from organizations like The New American Century are the direct cause of our conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan and also some of the resulting economic plight because of it.


So many are blinded with Obama love, they refuse to see what's happening and what's coming.

Which was brought on by whom? Bush. Obama's entire first term, if not more, it going to be completely dedicated to cleaning up the messes, domestic and international, of the Bush administration.

to rephrase your statement.

"Some people are blinded by Obama hate, they refuse to see who produced the storm in which Obama now in charge of navigating and rectifying"
 
lol man I thought I was hard on Obama, but Cruise took the cake.

Have anyone ever thought that there's nothing we can do for those countries? Seriously, Haiti has been fucked up since damn near a century now. I mean, when is it going to be the time that people from Haiti will take responsibility of their own lives? Plus, everyone can't have double standards about military involvement if it is called upon. People like Lamarr *I kinda agree with him on some things, but foreign policy isn't one of them* would swear up, and down that we are oppressing "brown people". However, if it came down to it, they would support a military assault to help out Haiti? Seriously?
 
This would be laughable if you really didn't believe. You could call Obama lots of things and be justified. However, as he's proven, calling him naive, inexperienced, and clueless almost undeniable alludes that the one making the accusations is guilty of their own labels. Even his most virulent enemies, despite their disagreement with his policy, fully admit Obama is the one of the most calculating, intelligent, and capable men they've encountered in their entire political lives...and that is what makes him even that much more dangerous to their party.

So, Obama is conniving, manipulative, and self-serving. I can agree with that. :yes:

Unlike Clinton, who allowed himself to be cap-sided, by over-reaching and overspending his political capital early, Obama is much more calculating and the GOP knows that any type of economic recover is setting them up for a mid-term elections spanking that will put their party underwater for possibly decades with the losses they could have in the House and Senate...much less the GOP governorships that are vulnerable as well.

Well, economic recovery is not going to happen with these bailouts and stimulus packages. So, the GOP isn't worried about that.

In fact, when people see how much of an utter failure Obama's administration is, the Democrats are going to see just what people think of them in 2010.

This will leave Obama extremely vulnerable heading in to 2012. He will either sellout completely to the Republican agenda (like Clinton) to survive (which is likely considering Obama's political tendencies). Or, he will take the principled stand and do what's best for the country (very remote, but who knows).

:lol: @ at Bush had his father's contacts, pedigree, etc to lend him credibility. His father's contacts, which pretty much ran his administration, are THE problem that has caused damn near every major catastrophe we have at the moment...and if they didn't cause it, they perpetuated the problem. This is not confusing correlation with causation either. I don't have the time now to repost things I posted over and over again on this board...some of which, I've called years ago in threads because I was fortune enough to be in Washington and visit places like Iraq(I was on the first non-military flight into Baghdad after the war started) The neo conservatives from organizations like The New American Century are the direct cause of our conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan and also some of the resulting economic plight because of it.

Everyone agrees (at least I do) Bush was a dimwit. So, why is Obama following his policies and appointed his guy in charge of Defense? :confused:

Which was brought on by whom? Bush. Obama's entire first term, if not more, it going to be completely dedicated to cleaning up the messes, domestic and international, of the Bush administration.

to rephrase your statement.

"Some people are blinded by Obama hate, they refuse to see who produced the storm in which Obama now in charge of navigating and rectifying"

Obama is not fixing/cleaning anything. He is only making things worse. (30 years from now, there will be textbooks about how Obama completed the destruction of the American economy)

He obviously has no understanding of how the economy works and has appointed people who insist on going down the same road which got us in this mess.

Why does Obama have to be the "black" President when he is obviously unprepared, ill-advised, and unsupported. Not one person in his Cabinet is an Obama insider. They are either from the Bush or Clinton camps.

Not good.
 
So, Obama is conniving, manipulative, and self-serving. I can agree with that. :yes:

It's amazing to me how logically bankrupt some people really are...even people who are "intelligent'. Being knowledgeable doesn't equate being able to logically present the data in a non-contradictory fashion.

I find it hilarious and disturbing how people try to have their cake and eat too. Look how easily you've accepted a contradiction.

First, you say Obama is naive, inexperienced and clueless.

30 minutes later is conniving and manipulative.

Now, you've made a couple of serious logical infractions here and accepted that you believe on contradictions... as, certainly, you must know these terms have objective definitions.

You claim that Obama is both "naive" and "clueless" and then "conniving" and "manipulative". Let's help you out here. This has much less to do with politics than with your struggles with semantics.

You've both called Obama naive: "deficient in worldly wisdom or informed judgment" and conniving: " To feign ignorance yet display tact and exacting measures"

With just this one example, you're pretty much used antonyms to describe Obama. You've literally said that stupid and smart man. He's so damn clueless and naive but manages to manipulate everyone with such conniving schemes. Come on man..be serious.

You need to do one or all of 3 things.

a. Either fully understand the terms you are using
b. Understand how to produce an argument using logical constructs
c. Stop being a sophist who always plays the negative(ive used it in that way intentionally)..which really makes you a cynic...and not the good kind.

I won't even list all the logical infractions in your post. The first line of your response and my dissection of it should make things very easy to see by anyone with a sound and unbiased mind.


Well, economic recovery is not going to happen with these bailouts and stimulus packages. So, the GOP isn't worried about that.

Can I rent your crystal ball? It's amazing how authoritatively you made this proclamation when you absolutely have no clue. The reality of the matter is that absolutely no one knows where any economy as large and sophisticated as the U.S. economy will be in approximately two years..when we will have mid term elections. So stop pretending to know.

And the reality of the matter is that the GOP is worried about this AND a host of other issues that has the party out of favor with the rest of the nation. With them playing the role of obstructions...who obviously cared nothing about fiscal responsibility when they controlled the White House, they've got a hell of a lot to lose if the economy recovers and they know it...that is why many in the GOP want to see economic failure..it is about the ONLY thing that can save their party right now. This is not speculative...their own high-ranking members have publicly admitted as such on the public record.



In fact, when people see how much of an utter failure Obama's administration is, the Democrats are going to see just what people think of them in 2010.

My first dissection of your completely baseless utterances was a discussion on semantics. It also seems you struggle with verb tenses. Unless his entire administration is to be judged by one month, you should be saying WILL BE and not IS. I've always thought an administration had 48 months...not 1...but you seem to know the future...maybe you also have the ability to change the definition of terms as well. You're powerful.


This will leave Obama extremely vulnerable heading in to 2012. He will either sellout completely to the Republican agenda (like Clinton) to survive (which is likely considering Obama's political tendencies).

You must not understand what really happened there. Clinton governed from the same position his entire political career..he was always a centrist. Clinton didn't sellout to the "Republic Agenda". Clinton overplayed his political position by being too heavy handed early in his administration(something Obama has been very keen on not repeating) and essentially turned an entire party against VEHEMENTLY against not...beyond just politics...and lost control and the midterms elections were disastrous where he seeded the Senate and House majorities he came into office with..which were strikingly similar to Obama's margins..and lost control of the House and Senate and couldn't pass the policy he wanted...was as simple as that... he didn't "sellout"...Clinton got outmaneuvered by the GOP... a very distinct difference of evaluation and truth.


Everyone agrees (at least I do) Bush was a dimwit. So, why is Obama following his policies and appointed his guy in charge of Defense? :confused:

Let me help you out from a thread I started a while ago.

http://www.bgol.us/board/showthread.php?t=330055&highlight=Gates

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/ta...2008/11/the-standard-critique-of-the.php#more

Keeping Bob Gates as Secretary of Defense was the most dramatic signal Barack Obama could have sent that he intends to implement major changes in defense policy. That may sound counterintuitive, but it has the virtue of being true. As Josh noted this morning, "cabinet appointees execute policy. They work for the president." So if Gates is tasked to take us out of Iraq and to redouble our efforts in Afghanistan, we can expect him to carry out both tasks with the same degree of competence he's exhibited thus far in his tenure. In a properly functioning administration, the Secretary of Defense is one of several key voices advising the president on where and how to exercise military force. But he possesses primary responsibility for deciding how that force should be structured, staffed, equipped, and supplied. Those are decisions the president largely delegates, and thus where the secretary exercises his greatest degree of autonomy. And it is in those realms of defense policy that Gates has most distinguished himself. In retaining Gates, Obama is sending a clear signal to the Pentagon bureaucracy that their usual strategy of stalling and out-lasting civilian appointees is going to fail; that he intends to pursue Gates' key reforms. And that's a decision which should make us all stand and cheer.

Many critics of the pick exhibit a myopic view of defense policy. Open Left's Chris Bowers objects on purely symbolic grounds, arguing that it makes Democrats look weak on defense and undermines the appearance of change. These same concerns have been voiced by TPM's usually-astute David Kurtz and Greg Sargent, as well as by posters at DailyKos. Robert Dreyfuss of The Nation, goes a step further, all but declaring the Obama administration a third term for Bush, at least on foreign policy.

The standard critique of the mainstream media, as the traditional press is derisively known in the blogosphere, is that it privileges process over substance. But on defense policy, at least, a similar charge could reasonably be leveled against these bloggers. Conspicuously absent from any of these laments is a detailed, substantive case against Gates. The argument is being conducted almost wholly on symbolic grounds.

Chris Bowers may be the most widely-cited online critic of this pick, so it's worth taking a close look at what he's written. Bowers points out that the Pentagon budget accounts for a huge percentage of our discretionary spending, and it's entirely out of control. But is Gates the problem, or the solution? Bowers appears to have no idea. In fact, Gates and his team have attacked a series of previously-sacrosanct weapons programs. They've done so in the absence of any material support from the Bush administration, and in the face of fierce opposition from the Democratic congress.

No single example is more powerful than that of the F-22 Raptor. It's quite likely the finest air-superiority fighter ever built, but it's certainly the most expensive. The program has been scaled back repeatedly. The Pentagon wants to end purchases with just 183, preferring to purchase the cheaper F-35 instead, and to spend the difference elsewhere; the Air Force is pushing for 381. Congress stuffed $523 million into the FY2009 Defense Appropriation for the production of parts for another 20 aircraft, including $150 million in up-front spending, designed to lock the purchase in before the new administration could take office and cancel the program. But John Young, a widely-respected Gates deputy rumored to be staying on along with his boss, cleverly noticed that the bill only required the Pentagon to expend up to $150 million; he allocated just $40 million, just enough to replace the 4 F-22s lost in combat, and structured the contract so that the options must be exercised by January 21, forcing an immediate decision on the new administration. Lawmakers on both sides of the aisle were livid. Neil Abercrombie, the subcommittee chair, and Silvestre Reyes delivered memorable verbal thrashings. And they're both Democrats. But Young refused to cave. And his stand preserved for the new administration the chance to make up its own mind about the F-22.

That's just a single example. Gates and his team have also questioned the need for further procurement of the C-17, the CSAR-X helicopter, the Zumwalt-class destroyer, and the Army's FCS initiative, among other weapons systems. One analyst, quoted in Politico's coverage of the pick, bluntly observed that "the defense industry would like to see the entire Bush team move on." But it's not the "Bush team" that's the problem for defense contractors; it's Gates. The Bush Administration has presided over an historic expansion of defense spending. But Gates has been warning that the party is over. His deputies are pushing to roll the ongoing and predictable costs of conflicts into the main appropriations bill, instead of using a supplemental, an important first step in regaining control of spending. And defense spending is just the tip of the iceberg. On a wide array of issues including encouraging heterodox thought, promoting capable officers, reigning in inter-service rivalries, prioritizing the needs of soldiers in the field, and placing personnel ahead of technology, Gates has made important strides - a point I've already made at excessive length. Having him pursue the same agenda while working for a President who actually agrees with and supports his efforts is an exciting prospect.

Don't just take my word for it. The two leading blogs on counterinsurgency - Abu Muqawama and Small Wars Journal - make it clear that this was the smartest and most important decision Obama has made thus far. Richard Danzig is reportedly Obama's choice for Deputy Defense Secretary, a role he is expected to full until he takes over for Gates. How does he feel about the Pentagon chief? "I think Secretary Gates has been a good secretary of defense," Danzig told reporters back in October. "I think he'd be an even better one in an Obama administration.... Many of the kinds of efforts he's made are in tune with what we're trying to do."



Obama is not fixing/cleaning anything. He is only making things worse. (30 years from now, there will be textbooks about how Obama completed the destruction of the American economy)

Yo man. You've got to let me use that crystal ball you have:rolleyes: ... you're able to see what textbooks are going to say 30 years from now about an administration that has been running for 30 days.


Why does Obama have to be the "black" President when he is obviously unprepared, ill-advised, and unsupported. Not one person in his Cabinet is an Obama insider. They are either from the Bush or Clinton camps.

Not good.

:lol::lol::lol: Your suppositions aren't even making sense anymore.
 
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I find it hilarious and disturbing how people try to have their cake and eat too. Look how easily you've accepted a contradiction.

First, you say Obama is naive, inexperienced and clueless.

30 minutes later is conniving and manipulative.

Now, you've made a couple of serious logical infractions here and accepted that you believe on contradictions... as, certainly, you must know these terms have objective definitions.

You claim that Obama is both "naive" and "clueless" and then "conniving" and "manipulative". Let's help you out here. This has much less to do with politics than with your struggles with semantics.

You've both called Obama naive: "deficient in worldly wisdom or informed judgment" and conniving: " To feign ignorance yet display tact and exacting measures"

With just this one example, you're pretty much used antonyms to describe Obama. You've literally said that stupid and smart man. He's so damn clueless and naive but manages to manipulate everyone with such conniving schemes. Come on man..be serious.

You need to do one or all of 3 things.

a. Either fully understand the terms you are using
b. Understand how to produce an argument using logical constructs
c. Stop being a sophist who always plays the negative(ive used it in that way intentionally)..which really makes you a cynic...and not the good kind.

I won't even list all the logical infractions in your post. The first line of your response and my dissection of it should make things very easy to see by anyone with a sound and unbiased mind.

Did it ever occur to you the guy may be manipulative, conniving, and self-serving when it comes to dealing with people, crowds, and the public

BUT...

naive, clueless, and inexperienced when it comes to managing economic and foreign policy.

He is a manipulator of men not policy (economic, foreign, military, banking, etc.)

Can I rent your crystal ball? It's amazing how authoritatively you made this proclamation when you absolutely have no clue. The reality of the matter is that absolutely no one knows where any economy as large and sophisticated as the U.S. economy will be in approximately two years..when we will have mid term elections. So stop pretending to know.

And the reality of the matter is that the GOP is worried about this AND a host of other issues that has the party out of favor with the rest of the nation. With them playing the role of obstructions...who obviously cared nothing about fiscal responsibility when they controlled the White House, they've got a hell of a lot to lose if the economy recovers and they know it...that is why many in the GOP want to see economic failure..it is about the ONLY thing that can save their party right now. This is not speculative...their own high-ranking members have publicly admitted as such on the public record.

If you see (and you may not) how this country has systematically destroyed its finances over the past 4 decades, you would be confident there is no recovery ahead.

Economies can languish for years (even decades). Nothing Obama has passed, proposed, or supported gives any indication he will stem nor stop this decline.

In fact, he seems intent on accelerating it. Now, if Obama's plan is to destroy the US economy and wipe out the white imperialist system (and white supremacy with it) then I have completely misjudged him.

My first dissection of your completely baseless utterances was a discussion on semantics. It also seems you struggle with verb tenses. Unless his entire administration is to be judged by one month, you should be saying WILL BE and not IS. I've always thought an administration had 48 months...not 1...but you seem to know the future...maybe you also have the ability to change the definition of terms as well. You're powerful.

I've been to this party before.

he didn't "sellout"...Clinton got outmaneuvered by the GOP... a very distinct difference of evaluation and truth.

I can't stand Clinton and am no expert on him (don't want to be) so I'll take your word for it.

Let me help you out from a thread I started a while ago.

No matter what you say about Gates (they could say he was Pershing/Grant/Eisenhower rolled into one), Obama should have picked his own man.

To me, that represents a break with the past and shows decisive leadership.

But, Obama doesn't have his own people.

Yo man. You've got to let me use that crystal ball you have:rolleyes: ... you're able to see what textbooks are going to say 30 years from now about an administration that has been running for 30 days.

:lol::lol::lol: Your suppositions aren't even making sense anymore.

I look at this like a train on a track. Just follow the track and you'll see where it's headed.

Given Obama's past, present, and future goals (armed conflict in the Middle East, protecting the banking sector, "stimulating" the economy with government spending, trying to appease the Republicans),

it's not hard to see it's a recipe for a failed administration.
 
Did it ever occur to you the guy may be manipulative, conniving, and self-serving when it comes to dealing with people, crowds, and the public

BUT...

naive, clueless, and inexperienced when it comes to managing economic and foreign policy.

He is a manipulator of men not policy (economic, foreign, military, banking, etc.)

You could infer a lot of things from your broad statement. However, you are again grasping at straws...trying not to display how your contradictory points have tied yourself into a knot.

I will use one of your examples for reference.: Military. Obama has not been in office long enough nor made enough decisions to display with any clear indication of what his military policy will be...and or if it will be exemplary or disappointing. And you can't say that he has been completely in step with Bush..because this very post you made is a clear break with Bush...as well as the administrations other statements about the P/I conflict.

What you've continued to repeatedly make the mistake of doing is making decisions on actions, events, etc that not even occurred yet. I do know at this point, Obama has, for the most part, done exactly what he said he was going to do. While the liberals were up in arms over the series of attacks on Pakistani soil near the border of Afghanistan, they failed to remember that all though the campaign season he said he would have a strong military response on that said border.

In regards to economy policy, etc.... the ONLY president I can remember in recent history that had a real-time grasp of economic policy...who could rattle off a coherent and decisive response to a very complex issue off the top of his head was clinton... you certainly can't say that for either of the Bushes or Reagan... I've sat and watched Obama answer series of questions regarding complex economic issues with extreme understanding. You can't give the type of press conference he gave and response to the the range of questioning on a micro and macro level and "fake it". It's just not possible. I don't even agree with all of the decision, but it's clear he understanding economics on a micro and macro level and he's making decisions that are in accordance with his ideology.

You need to step back into reality. Obama is one of the most intelligent men who has EVER held that position...and that is speaking on POLICY as well. You have the problem of understanding that "intelligence" can also be a opposing point of view.... :lol::lol::lol: @ someone who thinks that an opposing view presupposes the person is naive... as if YOU have a monopoly on intelligent ideas.


If you see (and you may not) how this country has systematically destroyed its finances over the past 4 decades, you would be confident there is no recovery ahead.

Economies can languish for years (even decades). Nothing Obama has passed, proposed, or supported gives any indication he will stem nor stop this decline.

Let me help you out. Do a search on threads I've started ( go back years). I've made enough threads on this board covering central banking, fiat money, capitalism vs. socialism, pre-modernistic economies, new flat economy, etc to keep you reading for weeks. You won't be able to introduce one concept that I've not already studied...either just to at least have a working rudimentary understanding of it or to expand on years of studying a particular subject. None of this is new to me. I was reading about the "creature from jeckyll isle" almost 20 years ago.


In fact, he seems intent on accelerating it. Now, if Obama's plan is to destroy the US economy and wipe out the white imperialist system (and white supremacy with it) then I have completely misjudged him..

Obama's job is not to "wipe out white supremacy". Also... as he's a centrist who leans to left...I'm not surprised by "government devised" solutions..but did you forget about the GOP president..Bush.. initiated all these government devised, market intrusive schemes under his presidency.... and did you forget that the market and economy unraveled under "his watch". Let's not revise history here... be intellectually honest and to expect the government just to sit back and watch this without any time of response is ridiculous..and this is coming from someone who is a classical libertarian... but I'm also not young enough to think so rigidly as to think any ONE type of view is always the best and only path.


I can't stand Clinton and am no expert on him (don't want to be) so I'll take your word for it.

I don't care of you like him or not. I've not even given my personal opinion on him. I just explained to you what really happened..politically and historically.



No matter what you say about Gates (they could say he was Pershing/Grant/Eisenhower rolled into one), Obama should have picked his own man.

You can't be that illogical. Since when does picking someone else make it the best decision just because you are switching people. If Steve Jobs died and and Cook was not promoted to the CEO position... would it be smart for a newly picked CEO to fire COOK..or a head of any department who is actually doing the job you would want to him do given the results you want? Breaking from the past solely for that purpose is not prudent.

The reality of the matter is that despite being GOP, Gates is a Dem president'ss dream because of his obvious progressive actions....did you even take the time to read the article? What sense would it make to replace Gates at his moment. It's not like he won't have the chance to do it later anyway..why replace him during a crisis..especially during one that he's shown exemplary judgment that aligns with Obama's goals.




Given Obama's past, present, and future goals (armed conflict in the Middle East, protecting the banking sector, "stimulating" the economy with government spending, trying to appease the Republicans),

it's not hard to see it's a recipe for a failed administration.

Actually, let me ask you a more revealing question. Who, in your opinion, has had a successful administration?

and if you think Obama is trying to appease the Republicans you're dense. You just said yourself he is a master at manipulating people, media, etc. Do you honestly think he's worried about the GOP? He doesn't even need much GOP support to pass any of his policy and the GOP has an overwhelming negative opinion to the U.S. public right now. Obama is simply aligning the cards that are positioning the GOP to look like party-first, nation-second obstructions to the public.... he's going on with his policy with or without them as he has the mandate to do it.. but what he's going is being gracious..using his power light-handedly...you would think that people who have learned that Obama plays soft to the public and plays hard behind clothes doors.... ask Clinton and McCain
 
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You could infer a lot of things from your broad statement. However, you are again grasping at straws...trying not to display how your contradictory points have tied yourself into a knot.

I will use one of your examples for reference.: Military. Obama has not been in office long enough nor made enough decisions to display with any clear indication of what his military policy will be...and or if it will be exemplary or disappointing. And you can't say that he has been completely in step with Bush..because this very post you made is a clear break with Bush...as well as the administrations other statements about the P/I conflict.

What you've continued to repeatedly make the mistake of doing is making decisions on actions, events, etc that not even occurred yet. I do know at this point, Obama has, for the most part, done exactly what he said he was going to do. While the liberals were up in arms over the series of attacks on Pakistani soil near the border of Afghanistan, they failed to remember that all though the campaign season he said he would have a strong military response on that said border.

Sure, he's done what he promised which is like saying Bush did what he promised. It still leads to failure.

When it's said Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires and Obama seems intent on staying (or escalating) there, it makes me wonder has he lost his mind. Bush I can understand, because he was reckless and ignorant. What's Obama's excuse?

In regards to economy policy, etc.... the ONLY president I can remember in recent history that had a real-time grasp of economic policy...who could rattle off a coherent and decisive response to a very complex issue off the top of his head was clinton... you certainly can't say that for either of the Bushes or Reagan... I've sat and watched Obama answer series of questions regarding complex economic issues with extreme understanding.

Obama is using the same BS tactics of Bush. Trying to scare the hell out of the country to pass these stupid ass bills and rushing them in the process.

It's the terrorists!
The financial world will collapse!
You'll lose your job!

Forget Obama with that.


You need to step back into reality. Obama is one of the most intelligent men who has EVER held that position...and that is speaking on POLICY as well. You have the problem of understanding that "intelligence" can also be a opposing point of view.... :lol::lol::lol: @ someone who thinks that an opposing view presupposes the person is naive... as if YOU have a monopoly on intelligent ideas.

You think I despise Obama because his approach differs from mine.

I despise Obama because he is not doing anything different. It's the same stupid ass stuff as Bush but with his so-called "black" face on it.

That pisses me off to no end.

Let me help you out. Do a search on threads I've started ( go back years). I've made enough threads on this board covering central banking, fiat money, capitalism vs. socialism, pre-modernistic economies, new flat economy, etc to keep you reading for weeks. You won't be able to introduce one concept that I've not already studied...either just to at least have a working rudimentary understanding of it or to expand on years of studying a particular subject. None of this is new to me. I was reading about the "creature from jeckyll isle" almost 20 years ago.

I am not ignorant of your background on this board nor monetary policy in this country.

Obama's job is not to "wipe out white supremacy". Also... as he's a centrist who leans to left...I'm not surprised by "government devised" solutions..but did you forget about the GOP president..Bush.. initiated all these government devised, market intrusive schemes under his presidency.... and did you forget that the market and economy unraveled under "his watch". Let's not revise history here... be intellectually honest and to expect the government just to sit back and watch this without any time of response is ridiculous..and this is coming from someone who is a classical libertarian... but I'm also not young enough to think so rigidly as to think any ONE type of view is always the best and only path.

Let me say it again. Bush is a failure. Obama is following Bush policies, strategies, and policies. So, Obama is a failure (notice it's not future tense, I mean NOW).

Obama may be intelligent, smart, or whatever, but that doesn't mean he has an original thought in his head or a clear vision where the country should go.

The country has already been down this road, why can't we try something different instead of the same failed stuff?

You can't be that illogical. Since when does picking someone else make it the best decision just because you are switching people. If Steve Jobs died and and Cook was not promoted to the CEO position... would it be smart for a newly picked CEO to fire COOK..or a head of any department who is actually doing the job you would want to him do given the results you want? Breaking from the past solely for that purpose is not prudent.

The reality of the matter is that despite being GOP, Gates is a Dem president'ss dream because of his obvious progressive actions....did you even take the time to read the article? What sense would it make to replace Gates at his moment. It's not like he won't have the chance to do it later anyway..why replace him during a crisis..especially during one that he's shown exemplary judgment that aligns with Obama's goals.

To me, as the boss, if I am taking over, everyone from the previous administration is getting fired. I'll bring in my own people. Unless, the previous operation was a success.

I don't consider Bush's administration a success, so why would any strong, decisive leader want the stink of that failure on his new staff?

If he's so good, fire him. Then bring him back quietly and in a low-key position. Let him earn it by doing a good job and promoting him to more responsibility. Giving him arguably the most important Cabinet position from the start makes Obama look weak and unsure to my eyes.

Actually, let me ask you a more revealing question. Who, in your opinion, has had a successful administration?

FDR, Truman, and Eisenhower

and if you think Obama is trying to appease the Republicans you're dense. You just said yourself he is a master at manipulating people, media, etc. Do you honestly think he's worried about the GOP? He doesn't even need much GOP support to pass any of his policy and the GOP has an overwhelming negative opinion to the U.S. public right now. Obama is simply aligning the cards that are positioning the GOP to look like party-first, nation-second obstructions to the public.... he's going on with his policy with or without them as he has the mandate to do it.. but what he's going is being gracious..using his power light-handedly...you would think that people who have learned that Obama plays soft to the public and plays hard behind clothes doors.... ask Clinton and McCain

All this talk of the death of the GOP is greatly exaggerated. I remember back in the 80s they said the Democrats were dead. The political winds can change at a moments notice.

And, Nancy Pelosi, Barney Frank, and Chris Dodd are not doing the Democrats any favors for 2010.
 
Sure, he's done what he promised which is like saying Bush did what he promised. It still leads to failure.

You're taking the statement out of context. I gave one specific military decision that was made over the course of his first month in office. You can't compare one month to eight years.

And obviously, Bush build his campaign on fabricated evidence and suspension of the constitution. Give me a break man. I gave an example of a man stating his position and following through. Bush and Co. built their position on nothing but lies.. you can't compare the two... they were truly "manipulative.

When it's said Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires and Obama seems intent on staying (or escalating) there, it makes me wonder has he lost his mind. Bush I can understand, because he was reckless and ignorant. What's Obama's excuse?.

I would recommend the following book which I've listed several times on this board.

Ghost Wars.

http://www.bgol.us/board/showpost.php?p=5605460&postcount=3

This is most comprehensive book written on our involvement in the region IMHO.

I've never said whether or not I agreed with the decision. What I said, within the context of Obama being true to his word, was that he's making the decisions he said for months he would make IF he took office.

No one in their right mind would even begin to compare the wreckless behavior of the Neo-Conservatives to anything that the Obama Administration has done at this point. Come on man..again be serious. At least to have a shred of unbiased perception here.

Even a Bush critic, if they are indeed informed, should be able to admit the many positive things he did in Africa...even if overall he was the leader of an abysmal administration on practically every level. So again, I would have to question how someone can only produce negativity about Obama...even his GOP combatants in the corridors of power in washington have some positive things to say about what he's doing or attempting to do in terms of cleaning up Bush's mess.




Obama is using the same BS tactics of Bush. Trying to scare the hell out of the country to pass these stupid ass bills and rushing them in the process.

It's the terrorists!
The financial world will collapse!
You'll lose your job!

He indeed used very strong words in attempting to conjure up support for the economic stimulus package. However, to equate it with Bush and Co., who used the tactics to engage in an illegal war on false pretenses is a bit much Cruise :rolleyes:



You think I despise Obama because his approach differs from mine.

I despise Obama because he is not doing anything different. It's the same stupid ass stuff as Bush but with his so-called "black" face on it.

That pisses me off to no end.

Do you really think he's not done "anything different" from his predecessor? Has he REALLY made all the same decisions as Bush and his administration. I mean..did you even take the time to look at his first few executive orders?? You can't be serious. He clearly was making a clean break from Bush.

However, and I've already stated this... real CHANGE would be completely repealing tax code AND/or doing things that would cripple or eliminate the control over the countries money supply by the Federal Reserve System. That would be revolutionary..However, I wouldn't expect that from Obama..and I've been on record saying several times that Obama was not bringing THAT type of change.. and he couldn't, even if he wanted to, considering he has a military crisis, economic crisis, etc to clean up... that type of policy would be considered radical to anyone but a classical libertarian... and no president, even one with 100 percent support of the population, could propose anything so dynamic as such in THIS economic situation.



Let me say it again. Bush is a failure. Obama is following Bush policies, strategies, and policies. So, Obama is a failure (notice it's not future tense, I mean NOW).

Even using the present tense, you are wrong. How is one to judge failure or success of an administration in 30 days Cruise? Nothing he proposes and signs into legislation is going to have any immediate effect anyway... the next few months, AT LEAST, are still the effects of the Bush Administration. He very well could fail, but a month is not enough time to render a verdict.

What are the criteria by which you are using to judge failure and success in 30 days?


Obama may be intelligent, smart, or whatever, but that doesn't mean he has an original thought in his head or a clear vision where the country should go.

The country has already been down this road, why can't we try something different instead of the same failed stuff?

First, you have to make an effort to say, in this circumstance, what is unequivocally the best path that the country should be taking at this moment. Given the very rare and dynamic situation that we have..multiple wars, economic crisis, overwhelmingly negative view by the international community, etc... If you can't draw on a similar situation in the past that unequivocally was proven to independently be the solution to the problem in question... as not to confuse correlation with causation.... you need to build as case as to what should be done based on this set of unique properties..... and then to even further prove your point... you need to show that Obama doesn't understand your point....rather than just disagree based on ideology or basic probability of executing on such a plan.


To me, as the boss, if I am taking over, everyone from the previous administration is getting fired. I'll bring in my own people. Unless, the previous operation was a success.

Most successful bosses that implement a successful turnaround..we can just name one...Jack Welch..former CEO of GE, NEVER eliminate the entire staff when PRUNING the company to create a turnaround effort. If you PRUNE everyone, who is going to run the company? You need to have people who can run the company. You'll spend all of your time trying to find and hire staff as opposed to actively running the company...What you do..is try to determine who the failures and underperformers are..and prune them so that the performers can do their job..and EVERYONE in the Bush administration was not an underperforming and dishonorable soul. The problem is that the powers, at the executive level, was for the most part filled with this types of individuals...but not all of them were.



I don't consider Bush's administration a success, so why would any strong, decisive leader want the stink of that failure on his new staff?
Answered above


If he's so good, fire him. Then bring him back quietly and in a low-key position. Let him earn it by doing a good job and promoting him to more responsibility.

You don't fire a Cook and expect him to come back. Cook gets CEO offers consistently to run large firms. Cook is more capable of running the company than anyone that he could be brought in from the outside. You need him more than he needs you. While we can complain about many of the high ranking Bush stools, Gates is not one of them. Again, re-read the article I've given. He's doing his job about as well as you would like it to be done at this point. There is not real reason to fire him.. UNLESS you just don't want a republican in that position..but to me..that's a fool position..to fire a capable man only because he's off the opposite party. Plus, he's a GOP member that also offers progressive solutions. You really can't ask more than that at the moment. He's perfect.




All this talk of the death of the GOP is greatly exaggerated. I remember back in the 80s they said the Democrats were dead. .

The last time the GOP was in this position and got hammered in mid terms elections..it took them DECADES to rebuild the party. This is very real man. A successful Obama administration puts the GOP in a hole that they'll need decades to get out of it...they can only hope that they can turn him into a Jimmy Carter. The dems already have a supermajority in the House and WILL gain more sets... They'll have 58 dem seats very shortly...and there are many seats up for grabs in 2010... if there is even a rudimentary level of recovery by 2010 for the midterms...and with the Dems 50 state machine and Obama's grass roots organization....and with the GOP already being out of favor..... they'll lose more seats....that will be a DEM president, supermajority of historical levels in the House and a Filibuster proof majorite in the Senate.... the GOP is on the verge of completely collapse... and they know..that is why they are making the half-hearted efforts to try to remake the party....ala Steele..
 
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FDR, Truman, and Eisenhower

I find this very interesting for a few reasons. However,I will use just one example from your list and one thing you criticize Obama for currently.

How can you criticize Obama for supporting an "economic stimulus package" and creating all types of government debt.. when FDR created "The New Deal"...several of them. FDR created more government agencies and socialistic style programs than any president in history. He even doubled the national debt during his first term. The New Deal is FDR's legacy and ironically something Obama is attempting to emulate on some capacity..though not as aggressively. I mean FDR created more government institutions and interfered in the markets through rationing, price controls, etc more than any other president I can think of at the moment. I mean, FDR was a true liberal's liberal... at least economically before we even had it classified as such here. I mean.. please justify this to me...how can you admire FDR and despise Obama when you are criticizing Obama for doing things that FDR did..FDR just did it on a greater magnitude?

and FDR was known as the ultimate "manipulate" of men and public perception... FDR was Obama squared according to your characterization of Obama..
 
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By executive order, President Barack Obama has ordered the expenditure of $20.3 million in migration assistance to the Palestinian refugeesand conflict victims in Gaza.

Wow, I missed the fireworks on this thread. but check it: we aint got 20 million dollars, if we did, it could be put to better use here! We need to get our house in order, peace
 

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I'm taking a seat to watch this one.
 
So many are blinded with Obama love, they refuse to see what's happening and what's coming.

<font size="3">On the other hand, some are so blinded by Obama hate, they cannot see whats happening and swear it is everyone else, who is blind.

QueEx
</font size>
 
Wow, I missed the fireworks on this thread. but check it: we aint got 20 million dollars, if we did, it could be put to better use here! We need to get our house in order, peace

Or we could just give more of it to Israel - hundreds of millions of dollars of money we do have :confused: to give to them.

Last year - in the midst of an economic crisis we gave Israel 2.423 BILLION dollars with 2.380 of that as direct military aid. http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/114bill.html

Palestinians are getting peanuts in comparison.
 
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Or we could just give more of it to Israel - hundreds of millions of dollars of money we do have :confused: to give to them.

Last year - in the midst of an economic crisis we gave Israel 2.423 BILLION dollars with 2.380 of that as direct military aid. http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/114bill.html

Palestinians are getting peanuts in comparison.

Look, we shouldn't give Israel nothin either! There is an economic crisis because we are broke. That money could be better used right here. We need to get our house in order! peace
 
Excuse me. I had to step out to take care of some real-world stuff. :cool:

Will check this Ghost Wars book.

Even a Bush critic, if they are indeed informed, should be able to admit the many positive things he did in Africa...

That's why I called Obama the 3rd term Bush.

Besides, when a Democrat is that chummy with Bill O'Reilly, it makes me wonder if they aren't really a neoconservate in Democrat's clothing.

How is one to judge failure or success of an administration in 30 days Cruise?

What are the criteria by which you are using to judge failure and success in 30 days?

End FISA.
End wiretapping of American citizens.
End rendition.
Pull troops out of the Middle East, starting from day one.
Stop bombings in the Middle East.
Say he is going to veto all bailout/stimulus bills.
Say he is going to suspend all deportations of Africans/Haitians.
Say he is going to appoint a committee to investigate disparities in conviction rates among African-Americans.
Suspend all military purchases (outside of costs to remove troops).
Commit to seeing the repeal of the Patriot Act.

These are just a few.

Most successful bosses that implement a successful turnaround... NEVER eliminate the entire staff when PRUNING the company to create a turnaround effort. If you PRUNE everyone, who is going to run the company?

That reasoning leads to the banks giving their "best people" billions in bonuses for running their companies into the ground.

You start at the top and clear out all the deadwood. If that doesn't work, you keep going down.

The last time the GOP was in this position and got hammered in mid terms elections..it took them DECADES to rebuild the party. This is very real man. A successful Obama administration puts the GOP in a hole that they'll need decades to get out of it...they can only hope that they can turn him into a Jimmy Carter. The dems already have a supermajority in the House and WILL gain more sets... They'll have 58 dem seats very shortly...and there are many seats up for grabs in 2010... if there is even a rudimentary level of recovery by 2010 for the midterms...and with the Dems 50 state machine and Obama's grass roots organization....and with the GOP already being out of favor..... they'll lose more seats....that will be a DEM president, supermajority of historical levels in the House and a Filibuster proof majorite in the Senate.... the GOP is on the verge of completely collapse... and they know..that is why they are making the half-hearted efforts to try to remake the party....ala Steele..

When Nixon resigned, they said the Republican party was dead.
When Carter lost, they said the Democratic party was dead.
When Bush lost, they said the Republican party was dead.
When Kerry lost, they said the Democratic party was dead.

Don't be so confident the Democrats won't get their asses handed to them in 2010 and 2012.

Everytime one party gets too sure of itself, it makes monstrous mistakes, opening the way for the other party. You can see it now with Obama, and his cast of characters in the House and the Senate.

How can you criticize Obama for supporting an "economic stimulus package" and creating all types of government debt.. when FDR created "The New Deal"...several of them. FDR created more government agencies and socialistic style programs than any president in history.

...

and FDR was known as the ultimate "manipulate" of men and public perception... FDR was Obama squared according to your characterization of Obama..

Obama is no FDR. He had polio (which can't be overemphasized), a dynamic wife, a domineering personality, and took an unprecedented (never before seen) action to increase the government.

At the time, it looked like a success. In hindsight, it was a failure. BUT... he did it FIRST and kept the country on his side. That's a success.

Obama appears to lack originality, principle, and will. These are things FDR, Truman, and Eisenhower had.

Really, they went through either personal or public TRAGEDIES to prepare themselves for the Presidency. What has Obama done to ready himself for the worst economic and foreign policy crises of this generation?

In his first 30 days, Obama could have called for a bank holiday to suspend all foreclosures in hard-hit areas like Cleveland, Detroit, Memphis, Atlanta, or Baltimore for 6 months.

Obama has done nothing for black people despite using that vote to become President. Great job for the first so-called "black" half-white President.
 
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End FISA.
End wiretapping of American citizens.
End rendition.
Pull troops out of the Middle East, starting from day one.
Stop bombings in the Middle East.
Say he is going to veto all bailout/stimulus bills.
Say he is going to suspend all deportations of Africans/Haitians.
Say he is going to appoint a committee to investigate disparities in conviction rates among African-Americans.
Suspend all military purchases (outside of costs to remove troops).
Commit to seeing the repeal of the Patriot Act.

These are just a few.

I'm critical of Obama but thats a legitimate response. When Bush was doing these things, it was terrible. But those same people who attacked 'W' give Obama a pass. Wake up, It's the same policy
 
Excuse me. I had to step out to take care of some real-world stuff. :cool:

Will check this Ghost Wars book.

Understood. And definitely pick up that book. It's lengthy but very engaging and intensive. The level of detail is amazing.


That's why I called Obama the 3rd term Bush.

Besides, when a Democrat is that chummy with Bill O'Reilly, it makes me wonder if they aren't really a neoconservate in Democrat's clothing.

I know your being a bit facetious here, but we certainly know that going on Bill O'Reilly's show to demonstrate to Republicans that you are not only prepared to answer their tough questions, but that you are also not the person that the skewed right wing of the party attempted to make him out to be during the GE (radical left-wing Marxist) has absolutely nothing to do with agreeing with neo-conservative policy.



End FISA.
End wiretapping of American citizens.
End rendition.
Pull troops out of the Middle East, starting from day one.
Stop bombings in the Middle East.
Say he is going to veto all bailout/stimulus bills.
Say he is going to suspend all deportations of Africans/Haitians.
Say he is going to appoint a committee to investigate disparities in conviction rates among African-Americans.
Suspend all military purchases (outside of costs to remove troops).
Commit to seeing the repeal of the Patriot Act.

These are just a few.

Cruise,

I very specifically said 30 days. I can name a list longer than this on what he's done already. Actually, I already have. Many political analysts, GOP and DEM, have gone on record saying they've never seen more get accomplished in the first 4 weeks of an administration.

However, we need to again focus on 30 days. Your request is simply an impossibility of reality. It's logistically impossible to produce the type of legislation needed to complete your list, along with the others things he's passed into law, in 30 days.

As someone who keeps abreast of these types of things, I have to question your expectations.

You can't be naive enough to believe that even if Obama and every senate and house member were in total agreement and support of your entire list, that it would even be possible to pass this list in 30 days...along with everything else they've done. You know there is a process so I can't go with naivety.

I can only suppose that you've created unrealistic expectations.

Or, you're worst than even the most wildly irrational Obama supporters...you're expecting Superman. But that's not it. You're a bit of number 2 and something else.

I agree that I would also like to see some of the things done on your list. However, I am realistic to know that this wouldn't be complete in his first month in office..nor would it all be moving forward immediately..especially with the economic crisis.

And the war in Iraqi is not like a damn Nintendo circa 1988... it's not working so I'm going to hit the reset button. Be serious...you just can't start pulling out immediately. We can have another independent debate about this....that would be as stupid as going into Iraq in the first place.

That reasoning leads to the banks giving their "best people" billions in bonuses for running their companies into the ground.

You start at the top and clear out all the deadwood. If that doesn't work, you keep going down.

Again those initial banking acts, with zero strings attached, were passed during Bush's administration. At least Obama's administration has created some semblance oversight and restrictions. Though I would like to see more and from what I've been reading in the package, there is more than meets the guy in terms of what was added to deal with executive compensation, etc...and there is more that will be proposed.

Your other comment is regarding operating banking enterprises. I gave the Apple and GE example only to illustrate the most effective practices when when shifting management and how it would apply to Government..I.E..keeping Gates on.

Are you know blaming Obama for the fact that the entire banking industry, especially investment banking, does a very horrible job at tying compensation to performance. This problem has been there since Obama was a child. Warren Buffet, has written great articles about this...especially in his comments in the Berkshire Hathaway annual reports. Obama and his administration aren't responsibly for placing executives to head banking institutions. They wouldn't be qualified to make the decisions.

Our discussion was about hiring within his administration and I was making a connection between management practices that are effective in any type of organization..whether private or public... the man who created the management industry as a formal practice: Peter Drucker, wrote some great books on the subject...especially about management transition and crisis.



When Nixon resigned, they said the Republican party was dead.
When Carter lost, they said the Democratic party was dead.
When Bush lost, they said the Republican party was dead.
When Kerry lost, they said the Democratic party was dead.

I think you may have missed my point. I'm not talking about a situation where a party just happened to lose an election. I'm talking about a very dynamic set of circumstances here that really has a striking historical parallel. But to quickly address a few over-reaches here.

When Kerry lost, no one said the Democratic party was dead. The end result was Kerry was too soft, as many dems are, and he allowed himself to be swiftboated by Rove. It really went no further than that. The Dems were able to take control of the House and Senate regardless.

When Bush lost, again, the overwhelming synopsis was not that the Party was dead.

The reality of the matter is that Bush lost to a Dem contender who only garnered 43 percent of the popular vote. If it had not been for Perot, Bush may have won. There was no ideological crisis within the GOP at that point...especially in comparison to their issues now... not just the self-identify issues.. but the fact that their party is also out of favor with the general public, and the country's demographics are shifting tremendously in ways that favor the Democrats, the Census is going to redraw the map that even further puts propagates the previous claim, the GOP has lost it's economic advantage in national politics, and the fact that they are completely outnumbered in the House and Senate with the expectations they will lose more seats in the mid-term elections.

The real comparison here is with a previous administration you've mentioned: FDR. After the GOP battled FDR over his New Deal and other banking initiatives and lost, they were out of favor and out power for over 3 decades.

The reality of the matter is that if the economy even slightly recovers by the mid-term elections, the GOP is gonna get buried. They've got nothing going for them at the moment but the hopes that the economy continues to tank and they can shift blame from Bush to Obama.


Don't be so confident the Democrats won't get their asses handed to them in 2010 and 2012.

Everytime one party gets too sure of itself, it makes monstrous mistakes, opening the way for the other party. You can see it now with Obama, and his cast of characters in the House and the Senate.

I don't suppose to know the results of mid-term elections in 2010. I can only judge things based the seats that are up for grabs and the analysis of guys like Nate Silver at www.fivethirtyeight.com who's pretty damn good at giving projects...along with my own digging. I do know this, if the economy recovers, the GOP has nothing to campaign on...nothing.. it would be a blood bath.



Obama is no FDR. He had polio (which can't be overemphasized), a dynamic wife, a domineering personality, and took an unprecedented (never before seen) action to increase the government.

Having Polio, a "dynamic" wife, etc has absolutely no relevance. If Obama was discovered to have cancer tomorrow, would it matter? No.

At the time, it looked like a success. In hindsight, it was a failure. BUT... he did it FIRST and kept the country on his side. That's a success.

You see how you've trapped yourself here. With the advantage of hindsight, you've admitted to admiring an administration that you admit was a failure. But only because you think he was a "pioneer", it was successful?

This is contradictory talk. You're trying to have your cake and eat it too.


Obama appears to lack originality, principle, and will. These are things FDR, Truman, and Eisenhower had.

You're comparing years of work...collectively almost 3 decades....to THIRTY days of one administration. You do realize that right?...and I can't even see how you can claim any of those men were more principled and had a stronger sense of will than Obama.. and I know all about FDR...Obama gets what he wants in a more subtle way... FDR was imposing and dominating, but he got what he wanted..almost forcing people to bend to his needs..Obama gets his way without even needing to ask. Results are results.


Really, they went through either personal or public TRAGEDIES to prepare themselves for the Presidency. What has Obama done to ready himself for the worst economic and foreign policy crises of this generation?

Does having personal or public tragedy presuppose that you will be a great president? And, do you really think those individuals have had a more strenuous life than Obama? I mean really... those men were connected in ways that Obama could have only wished for...


In his first 30 days, Obama could have called for a bank holiday to suspend all foreclosures in hard-hit areas like Cleveland, Detroit, Memphis, Atlanta, or Baltimore for 6 months.

Obama has done nothing for black people despite using that vote to become President. Great job for the first so-called "black" half-white President.

So you criticize Obama for entering the private markets with government proposed spending packages (which is what your hero FDR did) as well as similar banking initiatives, but you're criticizing him for not entering the housing markets in a more direct way

I'm serious man.. I've trying to get some consistency from you.

I'm not going to even address the "race" issues. Just by the simple fact that you call him the so called "black" half-white president is revealing enough.
 
I'm not going to even address the "race" issues. Just by the simple fact that you call him the so called "black" half-white president is revealing enough.

The "race thing" is one of the things that catches my attention, as well. We all are what we are and there is no definition, biologically or psychologically, of what constitutes black, pure black, half black, half-white or any other admixture.

The Poster's apparent negative obsession with Mr. Obama's race/ethnicity is to me, at least, a bit troubling and strikingly similar to an issue he raised in a comment made in a thread introducing Benjamin Jealous as the NAACP's new president back in May of last year:


Perhaps, as far as we have yet to go towards righting America's wrongs towards us, we have just as far to go towards reconciling us, towards us.

QueEx
 
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I know your being a bit facetious here, but we certainly know that going on Bill O'Reilly's show to demonstrate to Republicans that you are not only prepared to answer their tough questions, but that you are also not the person that the skewed right wing of the party attempted to make him out to be during the GE (radical left-wing Marxist) has absolutely nothing to do with agreeing with neo-conservative policy.

Hmmm. Maybe.

Many political analysts, GOP and DEM, have gone on record saying they've never seen more get accomplished in the first 4 weeks of an administration.

However, we need to again focus on 30 days. Your request is simply an impossibility of reality. It's logistically impossible to produce the type of legislation needed to complete your list, along with the others things he's passed into law, in 30 days.

I am not saying he needs to change the world. But couldn't he have at least offered a few words acknowledging the "black" community's unwavering support and loyalty to him throughout the campaign?

Let the world know how important it is for non-whites to come together and they can achieve great things. Simple and sweet.

It would have meant a lot to many in my city for the acknoweldgment given all the troubles and crises.

But... he wouldn't do that!

Not once did he mention Martin Luther King, slavery, or the black community. He mentioned "race" once and that was a passing reference to unity. :smh: It's as if he was completely ignoring the importance and impact of his Presidency to the people who were his most loyal supporters.

So, yes, I am going to be especially critical of President Obama if he continues to call himself the first "black" President.

You can't be naive enough to believe that even if Obama and every senate and house member were in total agreement and support of your entire list, that it would even be possible to pass this list in 30 days...along with everything else they've done. You know there is a process so I can't go with naivety.

I can only suppose that you've created unrealistic expectations.

This is absolutely correct.

President Obama will never meet my expectations until he stops calling himself "black" or he begins acknowledging and crediting the "black" community.

If he just wants to be a Democratic President, that's fine by me. I woud have very little opinion of him. But once he plays the race card, the gloves are off.

And the war in Iraqi is not like a damn Nintendo circa 1988... it's not working so I'm going to hit the reset button. Be serious...you just can't start pulling out immediately. We can have another independent debate about this....that would be as stupid as going into Iraq in the first place.

Well, I disagree. But, this can be tabled for another time.

Again those initial banking acts, with zero strings attached, were passed during Bush's administration. At least Obama's administration has created some semblance oversight and restrictions. Though I would like to see more and from what I've been reading in the package, there is more than meets the guy in terms of what was added to deal with executive compensation, etc...and there is more that will be proposed.

Variations on a theme. i was hoping to get a new song, not the same tune with different instruments.

Are you know blaming Obama for the fact that the entire banking industry, especially investment banking, does a very horrible job at tying compensation to performance. This problem has been there since Obama was a child. Warren Buffet, has written great articles about this...especially in his comments in the Berkshire Hathaway annual reports. Obama and his administration aren't responsibly for placing executives to head banking institutions. They wouldn't be qualified to make the decisions.

Well, you need to know I hold bankers with the same regard as drug dealers. Well, bankers would be worse than drug dealers. Instead bankers are like casino managers/owners.

So, when Obama doesn't bring the wrath of God down on these fools, it tells me he is their puppet/tool.

When Kerry lost, no one said the Democratic party was dead. The end result was Kerry was too soft, as many dems are, and he allowed himself to be swiftboated by Rove. It really went no further than that. The Dems were able to take control of the House and Senate regardless.

Let's be realistic. I remember back in 2004 when Kerry lost how many were saying the Democrats were in real trouble going forward. Bush looked vulnerable as hell and still won!

It wasn't until Katrina that the Republicans lost their credibility.

In fact, Obama would have still lost the election if not for the collapse on Wall Street in September. The timing was impeccable for Obama.

The Republicans are a lot stronger than you give them credit. There are a lot of angry white boys out there who resent Obama as President.

If he and the Democrats aren't careful, you are going to see the redneck rebirth in the next Congressional and Presidential elections.

Let's say the economy recovers, the whites will say it's time for them to take control again.

Let's say the economy stumbles, the whites will say the "black" President is incompetent.

Obama needs to bust his ass if he expects to get another 4 years. The "black" community could abandon Obama if he fails to produce real, tangible results or at least offers some recognition to the community and its citizens.

If he loses the "black" community, he is finished.

When Bush lost, again, the overwhelming synopsis was not that the Party was dead.

The reality of the matter is that Bush lost to a Dem contender who only garnered 43 percent of the popular vote. If it had not been for Perot, Bush may have won. There was no ideological crisis within the GOP at that point...especially in comparison to their issues now... not just the self-identify issues.. but the fact that their party is also out of favor with the general public, and the country's demographics are shifting tremendously in ways that favor the Democrats, the Census is going to redraw the map that even further puts propagates the previous claim, the GOP has lost it's economic advantage in national politics, and the fact that they are completely outnumbered in the House and Senate with the expectations they will lose more seats in the mid-term elections.

When Bush lost, many were surprised. I'll grant that the party was still solid. But there were real questions about who would lead it forward. And with Bush Jr. winning, those concerns were well-founded. :smh:

But, do you see what I'm saying. If a dummy like Bush can win the White House, after 8 years of economic strength under Clinton (who I despise), what makes you think Obama and the Democrats are so strong right now?

The real comparison here is with a previous administration you've mentioned: FDR. After the GOP battled FDR over his New Deal and other banking initiatives and lost, they were out of favor and out power for over 3 decades.

The reality of the matter is that if the economy even slightly recovers by the mid-term elections, the GOP is gonna get buried. They've got nothing going for them at the moment but the hopes that the economy continues to tank and they can shift blame from Bush to Obama.

I think you are wrong about this.

Having Polio, a "dynamic" wife, etc has absolutely no relevance. If Obama was discovered to have cancer tomorrow, would it matter? No.

I think it makes all the difference in the world in how you approach the job as President of these United States.

You see how you've trapped yourself here. With the advantage of hindsight, you've admitted to admiring an administration that you admit was a failure. But only because you think he was a "pioneer", it was successful?

This is contradictory talk. You're trying to have your cake and eat it too.

A successful administration is one that gets re-elected and has the support of the people (barring votes then opinion polls).

You're comparing years of work...collectively almost 3 decades....to THIRTY days of one administration. You do realize that right?...and I can't even see how you can claim any of those men were more principled and had a stronger sense of will than Obama.. and I know all about FDR...Obama gets what he wants in a more subtle way... FDR was imposing and dominating, but he got what he wanted..almost forcing people to bend to his needs..Obama gets his way without even needing to ask. Results are results.

Does having personal or public tragedy presuppose that you will be a great president? And, do you really think those individuals have had a more strenuous life than Obama? I mean really... those men were connected in ways that Obama could have only wished for...

President Obama's entire national political career has been a fluke.

He became Senator by getting his competitors disqualified.
He became President running against a dominatrix and a clueless old man supported by a despised incumbent President.

Has Obama ever dealth with a political tragedy or failure? Does he know how to cope with political failure or embarrassment?

So you criticize Obama for entering the private markets with government proposed spending packages (which is what your hero FDR did) as well as similar banking initiatives, but you're criticizing him for not entering the housing markets in a more direct way

I'm serious man.. I've trying to get some consistency from you.

Well, if he's giving away money to whites, why can't we get some?

I'm not going to even address the "race" issues. Just by the simple fact that you call him the so called "black" half-white president is revealing enough.

Like I said, Obama played the race card when it suited him and hid it when it didn't... and it got him elected.

He presumed to identify with all people who are called "black" in this country the second he applied that label to himself. Now, he will have to deal with that decision.
 
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A successful administration is one that gets re-elected and has the support of the people (barring votes then opinion polls).

So that I fully understand what you are saying here: Bush had a successful administration because he was re-elected?

That is the sole criteria you are using? So if that is the case, you need to wait until 2012 to judge Obama would you? Because you've already call his administration a failure. Unless you have a different goalpost for Obama?
 
So that I fully understand what you are saying here: Bush had a successful administration because he was re-elected?

That is the sole criteria you are using? So if that is the case, you need to wait until 2012 to judge Obama would you? Because you've already call his administration a failure. Unless you have a different goalpost for Obama?

Bush didn't have the support of the people, demonstrated by his amazingly low job satisfaction ratings. In fact, the Presidential candidate from his party didn't want to have anything to do with him, be seen with him, have him at the convention, or refer to him in speeches.

So, I wouldn't call Bush a success.

Personally, Obama has sown so many seeds of destruction, I just don't see how he'll recover. His only chance was to come into office and lay down the law.

If he had done some things I mentioned, made peace with the civil rights community, and started the process of ending these wars, it would have been a good sign.

But, you're correct, time will determine who was more observant when it comes to President Obama.
 
Bush didn't have the support of the people, demonstrated by his amazingly low job satisfaction ratings. In fact, the Presidential candidate from his party didn't want to have anything to do with him, be seen with him, have him at the convention, or refer to him in speeches.

So, I wouldn't call Bush a success.

.

So, although you personally "can't stand Bill Clinton", you consider his administration a success being that he was re-elected and had the support of the people?
 
So, although you personally "can't stand Bill Clinton", you consider his administration a success being that he was re-elected and had the support of the people?

Sure. I can hate and despise and loathe someone, but you can't argue with success.

Obama is no Clinton. Plus, he seems determined to imitate Bush. The only successful Democratic President since Truman, and Obama wants to copy a failure (lil' Bush). Go figure.
 
Sure. I can hate and despise and loathe someone, but you can't argue with success..

I can respect being consistent given the criteria that you've given.


Obama is no Clinton. Plus, he seems determined to imitate Bush. The only successful Democratic President since Truman, and Obama wants to copy a failure (lil' Bush). Go figure.

I don't think he's "imitating" Bush at all..actually he came right out of the gate with a series of executive orders that clearly broke with the bush administration. Bush "initiated" wars. Obama just can't stop the military machine at the snap of his finger... but we can hope, that as he stated, he will wind down the troop count in Iraq.

I'm note sure what you mean by " He's no clinton".. but again.. 30 days is not enough time to judge an administration..plus... Clinton and Obama were handed two very diametrically opposed circumstances in terms of "state" of the military, economy, etc.

and without debating any of the other points about the GOP... I think the GOP internally knows they are in trouble and already set up their fall guy... Did you see the post I made on the main board today about Steele... you can't tell me that is not a clear sign of the GOP being in serious trouble..
 
I don't think he's "imitating" Bush at all..actually he came right out of the gate with a series of executive orders that clearly broke with the bush administration. Bush "initiated" wars. Obama just can't stop the military machine at the snap of his finger... but we can hope, that as he stated, he will wind down the troop count in Iraq.

Obama preserves renditions as counter-terrorism tool

Obama's exec orders have loopholes

Obama fastest order signing president in modern US history

I would think the least Obama could do is UNEQUIVOCALLY halt all renditions, interrogations and review all currently held "suspects" by the US.

In my opinion, Obama should have halted everything Bush was doing (military activities, detainments, defense contractor spending, intelligence operations, etc.) for further review. To me, Obama seems content to let things continue as they are until he gets around to it.

That does not instill a lot of confidence in me that President Obama feels (like I do) that Bush was a complete and utter failure in MidEast and economic policy.

I'm note sure what you mean by " He's no clinton".. but again.. 30 days is not enough time to judge an administration..plus... Clinton and Obama were handed two very diametrically opposed circumstances in terms of "state" of the military, economy, etc.

Okay, I'll hold tight for 6 months.

But, Clinton survived political disaster as governor in Arkansas, and years later beat a strong Republican Presidential candiate (Bush Sr.).

I may not like the guy, but when you beat Bush Sr. (who had 12 years in the White House, connections out the ass, Reagan's legacy behind him, etc.), you know this is a political force.

Now, who did Obama beat? Two women and an old man with an endorsement from a despised President.

and without debating any of the other points about the GOP... I think the GOP internally knows they are in trouble and already set up their fall guy... Did you see the post I made on the main board today about Steele... you can't tell me that is not a clear sign of the GOP being in serious trouble..

The GOP simply needs a Jindal-type. Someone who kisses honkey behind, but is not "black" (in fact, is ambivalent to them at best).

If Jindal were to run against Obama in 4 years, he might beat him (considering how tenuous Obama's white support seems to be).
 
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