Not dating Black women, some boys start young .. Interesting Blog I read

[Cleopatra_J]

found this article online and thought it was interesting enough. Personal blog about a woman who's 12 year old nephew said he prefers white girls to black girls. He's flipping TWELVE!!!

It's actually 2 parts,

Part 1 - she describes the incident

I was debating on whether or not I should post this, but then I said, "whatever."

My nephews came in town yesterday with my brother and his wife. I didn't spend too much time with them due to work (they couldn't come by the lab because we were busier than I thought we would be) and the homecoming festivities, but I spent enough time for this situation to happen.

My nephews are are ages 12 and 10. They have been in private schools all their lives, except for preschool, which was a majority black preschool, and one of the best in the city. By them being in private school, of course they're mostly around white children...

...nothing wrong with that...

So I'm talking to my oldest nephew, and we get on the subject of cell phones. I take his cell phone and look through it; I just wanted to be nosey and see how many numbers he had of girls in his phone and tease him. So as I'm looking, my youngest nephew blurts out, "No black girls are in his phone." My oldest nephew gives him the look, and says, "Shut up." So as I'm looking through his pictures on his phone, all of the females are white. So I ask him, "So you don't like black girls," and he says nothing. He then says, "Not really." So I ask him why, and he says, "Well, I do like them, but I like white girls too. I like white girls more though." Then the youngest one says, "Black girls don't exercise, they yell too much...," and that's when their mom got into the conversation.

Cont'd

part 2 - she reacts to it, and the user comments. Good stuff.

So, there you have it. It's not enough to understand the basis of their opinion, or is it? I also find it interesting that their preference doesn't mean they themselves want to disassimilate from the "black culture," for they're quick to point out what is black, white, or other (we live in the south, so if it's not black or white, it's other, lol), and they want you to know that they're black. They're very quick to mock the way I talk and my preference of things, making me a "white girl inside (whatever that means)." They're both heavily into sports, and already they value the aesthetics of a firm and tight body. They also value various other aesthetics for women that aren't common in the black race.

While reading the comment section of the post, I read them all, but the one's by the males (12kyle and Rich) stuck out the most. I guess it's because I wanted some type of connection with the opposite sex on this (or maybe it was because not many males comment on my blog, lol). Seriously though, they both mentioned reinforcement (in one way or another). As we all know, our views, mentalities, ideologies, personal philosophies are very much shaped by reinforcement...a thought that is recycled over and over again in our brain. This reinforcement could be either good or bad, but either way, it's in constant rotation when any one of our senses reminds us of this, strengthening our view points. Maybe this is what's happening to them. I talked to a male friend of mine, who is also black, and he basically said the same thing that Kyle and Rich said, plus more during the duration of our conversation. While talking, there were some things said that I hated to agree with, but were true about us as black women, particularly when it comes to taking care of our bodies, for we always want to claim something as thick when really it's not. As a matter of fact, that's how we met...at the gym. He also said, "I can understand where they're coming from on that. You don't see nearly as many black women working out as you see white women. Keeping it real, I was shocked when you told me you worked out as much as you did. That kinda turned me on," and after he said that, with a smile, I had to bring him back to the convo at hand (hmmmp, men).

Cont'd

 

[sean69]

First of all, I don't see the relevance of him being 12.

The kids have been in private schools all their life right? So what's the surprise here?

 

[Cleopatra_J]

There are black people in private schools. Usually when kids are younger, they enjoy people who look like them.

Its significant because of how he identified black women at 12 "they don't work out" " they are loud"

All children are loud .. children don't work out usually .. at 12 those associations are extreme. FUCKING 12.

 

[Naha-Nago]

1. Children are the product of their environment and covent the familar. If the boy's environment (school) is mostly white, it should be to no surprise that he is more comfortable around white girls. I bet if the boy lived in japan all his life his ass would speak Japanese too.

2. There is also a thing called preference....nothing wrong with it.

3. Not going to fall into the "loud/fat black woman" trap but I will say I have met enough to understand the little nig's observation. Don't fault the boy for having eyes.


*two cents*

 

[Adam Knows]

There are black people in private schools. Usually when kids are younger, they enjoy people who look like them.

Its significant because of how he identified black women at 12 "they don't work out" " they are loud"

All children are loud .. children don't work out usually .. at 12 those associations are extreme. FUCKING 12.

i recently heard the same thing from a 12 year old...my daughter's brother...

he's basically been around white people/kids all of his life..from what i understand white girls love him...he went to an affluent all white school system (maybe 3-6% black pop.) and now goes to a high end private school (maybe 20 black kids in the whole school). it is surprising he gave the same negative comments that grown men give (loud, attitude, nasty) but i think he sees that from his relatives (women behaving in that manner because they (his ext. family) are atrocious....

 

[younguzi]

Yes i have noticed that a lot of young black men dont like the sistas and thats a shame. I recently had a conversation with a 19yr old black male and he hated black women a direct qoute from him.. which made me cry there i was a grown ass man crying over what this young brotha thought of the sistas. we have got to do better as a people we cant have the foundation of our people breaking down like this. BLACK LOVE IS BEAUTIFUL!! I would never consider dating anyone thing other than a black woman. because i have to respect the women that raised me and those were 2 strong Black Women!

 

[(0_0)..l.. finger]

self fulfilling prophecy...

 

[LoneStar29]

"Black girls don't exercise, they yell too much..."

That excuse he gave was bullshit ... they are 12 years old so they are all loud and they all do sports in school ... he just thinks white girls are prettier but as usual instead of just admitting to that he shits on sistas in the process ... typical ... I bet he heard those negative things from the older black men he is around ... he's a little coon in training

 

[Izayoi]

First of all, I don't see the relevance of him being 12.

The kids have been in private schools all their life right? So what's the surprise here?

C/S

There are black people in private schools. Usually when kids are younger, they enjoy people who look like them.

Its significant because of how he identified black women at 12 "they don't work out" " they are loud"

All children are loud .. children don't work out usually .. at 12 those associations are extreme. FUCKING 12.

I wouldn't say extreme Cleo. Children as young as 8/9 have been note dto started showing preferences in attraction. They are still influenced by the social norms of "thin and quiet" = ladylike and pretty. They are not judging themselves by kiddy standards but aspirational standards (i.e. growing up). They are also judging girls by the white standards, because those girls are going to be the ones most sought after in their environment.

i recently heard the same thing from a 12 year old...my daughter's brother...

he's basically been around white people/kids all of his life..from what i understand white girls love him...he went to an affluent all white school system (maybe 3-6% black pop.) and now goes to a high end private school (maybe 20 black kids in the whole school). it is surprising he gave the same negative comments that grown men give (loud, attitude, nasty) but i think he sees that from his relatives (women behaving in that manner because they (his ext. family) are atrocious....

This and what Pogo and Sean said basically summarized my response from sistasonline. They are not around enough black girls in school probably to make an impact. They are going to rely on the media (CAC centric media) and their FAMILIES. Kids can not filter. They have no life context so if all they see is a bunch of aggressive, fat, yelling black women at home and quieter, ditzy/giggly, white cheerleader chicks at school (and if the school is affluent that's exactly what they are seeing) then they will make flawed inferences from the start.

They are kids. Hopefully they will get into a more diverse environment and learn better. I did.

 

[sean69]

There are black people in private schools. Usually when kids are younger, they enjoy people who look like them.

Its significant because of how he identified black women at 12 "they don't work out" " they are loud"

All children are loud .. children don't work out usually .. at 12 those associations are extreme. FUCKING 12.

O rly? What's the black to white ratio in private schools in this country? I bet without credible stats in front of me I can take a wild guess.

When kids are younger they enjoy people who look like them??

Really? I thought kids usually enjoy what they identify as "cool" in whatever environment they're in.

Cleo, perhaps you're not aware but kids these days grow up real quick. My 3yr old niece has about as much attitude and sass as a 8 year old 25 yrs ago. And I'm sure it's pretty obvious why.

So yeah, that's far from extreme for a 12 yr old. Trust me.

1. Children are the product of their environment and covent the familar. If the boy's environment (school) is mostly white, it should be to no surprise that he is more comfortable around white girls. I bet if the boy lived in japan all his life his ass would speak Japanese too.

2. There is also a thing called preference....nothing wrong with it.

3. Not going to fall into the "loud/fat black woman" trap but I will say I have met enough to understand the little nig's observation. Don't fault the boy for having eyes.
*two cents*

C/S (1) and (2).

(3) is pure uncut bovine feces.

"Black girls don't exercise, they yell too much..."

That excuse he gave was bullshit ... they are 12 years old so they are all loud and they all do sports in school ... he just thinks white girls are prettier but as usual instead of just admitting to that he shits on sistas in the process ... typical ... I bet he heard those negative things from the older black men he is around ... he's a little coon in training

LOL.
Or maybe he's just a kid making a genuine observation based on his obviously limited experience as a kid.

And maybe brothas "shitting" on sistas to justify their attraction to beckys isn't "typical" but that behavior is essentially the same as above. ^^^

 

[LeroyDibiase]

A bit of this:

1. Children are the product of their environment and covent the familar. If the boy's environment (school) is mostly white, it should be to no surprise that he is more comfortable around white girls. I bet if the boy lived in japan all his life his ass would speak Japanese too.

2. There is also a thing called preference....nothing wrong with it.

3. Not going to fall into the "loud/fat black woman" trap but I will say I have met enough to understand the little nig's observation. Don't fault the boy for having eyes.


*two cents*

and a dash of that:

C/S



I wouldn't say extreme Cleo. Children as young as 8/9 have been note dto started showing preferences in attraction. They are still influenced by the social norms of "thin and quiet" = ladylike and pretty. They are not judging themselves by kiddy standards but aspirational standards (i.e. growing up). They are also judging girls by the white standards, because those girls are going to be the ones most sought after in their environment.



This and what Pogo and Sean said basically summarized my response from sistasonline. They are not around enough black girls in school probably to make an impact. They are going to rely on the media (CAC centric media) and their FAMILIES. Kids can not filter. They have no life context so if all they see is a bunch of aggressive, fat, yelling black women at home and quieter, ditzy/giggly, white cheerleader chicks at school (and if the school is affluent that's exactly what they are seeing) then they will make flawed inferences from the start.

They are kids. Hopefully they will get into a more diverse environment and learn better. I did.

 

[LoneStar29]

LOL.
Or maybe he's just a kid making a genuine observation based on his obviously limited experience as a kid.

And maybe brothas "shitting" on sistas to justify their attraction to beckys isn't "typical" but behavior and is the essentially the same as above. ^^^

He went to mostly all white schools so he is either judging black women on the limited experience he has with them or the negative things he sees on t-v about sistas or the negative things he has been told about sistas

I'm sure if them white kids in his school judged him off the little experience they have with black boys or what they see on t-v about black men the men in this thread would be up in arms ... but it's ok for him to judge black women due to the limited experience he has with sistas or what he sees or has been told

He's a coontastic little piece of shit ... all the little fat loud black girls in his neighbourhood should gang up on him and beat him up so that he has a REAL reason to hate them and not just some made up shit the ignorant black so called men in his family have taught him

 

[sean69]

He went to mostly all white schools so he is either judging black women on the limited experience he has with them or the negative things he sees on t-v about sistas or the negative things he has been told about sistas

I'm sure if them white kids in his school judged him off the little experience they have with black boys or what they see on t-v about black men the men in this thread would be up in arms ... but it's ok for him to judge black women due to the limited experience he has with sistas or what he sees or has been told

He's a coontastic little piece of shit ... all the little fat loud black girls in his neighbourhood should gang up on him and beat him up so that he has a REAL reason to hate them and not just some made up shit the ignorant black so called men in his family have taught him

Bigirl...??

 

[LoneStar29]

Bigirl...??

Like I said before if that young black boy was being wrongly generalized and stereotyped the responses in this thread would be alot different

 

[Naha-Nago]

I wonder how some of the women on the board would feel if their son's (if they had any) grew up think foundly of white women via environment or preference...


*two cents*

 

[SEXY_SCORPIO]

I wonder how some of the women on the board would feel if their son's (if they had any) grew up think foundly of white women via environment or preference...


*two cents*

I mean thats my child,I want him to be happy but I would encourage him to date black women. If it doesn't work out for him,what can I say or do. Disown him?? Never.

 

[Zero]

When my daughters were younger, they used to spend the summers with their aunts. I had to cut the shit short when they came home after one summer talking about black men ain't this and black men ain't that. This just happened to coincide with my sister's divorce from her husband and subsequent relationship with a white guy and her step daughter's new relationship with a white guy after spending YEARS hand picking and getting fucked over by every lowlife nig she could find (including the father of her son who has been MIA since before he was born 7 years ago). My sister's husband was an obvious looser POS before she chose to marry him and every dude her stepdaughter has ever dated has been a POS as well (including the jobless white boy she is currently with who lives in her house, eats her food, drives her car and provides her with shit). The white guy my sister is currently with is no prize either given her extremely high standards when it comes to black men (brotha has to have advanced degrees and fat bank statements, white boy is a nightclub musician and substitute teacher who gets an allowance from my sister to keep up appearances, something she would NEVER do for a black man in a million years).

I have a niece who is 27 who has actually fallen out with her mother and aunts because, after going to a private boarding school 9-12 grade and attending Columbia U., found a laid back, intelligent, BLACK computer engineer and got engaged. My sisters OPENLY expressed disdain for the dude for no good reason other than him being black. They actually told her and attempted to tell my daughters that they should NEVER date a black man. Given that I, THEIR FATHER, happen to be a black man, I took issue with that bullshit and do not allow my kids around them unsupervised, PERIOD!

No trips to Disneyworld
No summer visits
No vacations with the aunties

I have three sisters and all of them have issues with black men because of self-imposed bullshit.

One has chased loosers her entire life and ended up giving birth to my niece from one of those loosers (this is the niece who has spent most of her life in the best schools).

Another has always had extremely high standards for what she wanted in a black man and then married a dude who had all of the external requirements, but ended up being a fraud and a hustler that took her to the cleaners

Another has simply spent 48 years of her life MANLESS

NONE of them should be offering opinions or advice to ANYONE when it comes to who they should date.

Now, the flipside. A lot of black "men" (the quote around the word men is 100% intentional because the term is used loosely as hell) have become everything they claim they hated about black women. Hell, to be honest, a LOT of black men have flat out BECOME black women. They are catty, loud, troublesome, have unrealistic standards and expectations that they only apply to their own and do not apply to other races and many of them feel 100% justified feeding that shit to any younger black men they come in contact with, including their sons. These black men are bitter for the EXACT same reason their female couterparts are bitter. They have poor judgement and they blame any-and-everything for this poor judgement except the poor judgement itself. They then feed this skewed view of the world created in the cesspool of their own shallowness and stupidity to young black people to assure their cycle of stupidity and bitterness survives another generation.

Hell, me and my wife would both most likely be considered "good" people, and I can't tell you how many single people have stepped to her and myself trying to throw salt so we could be as mindfucked and miserable as themselves (BGOL is a fraternity of the mindfucked, it's not just online anymore). Only solution is to cut these parasites loose and let them swim around in the petri dish they seem to so love to exist in and keep them away from any impressionable minds you can. Too many emotionally diseased folks out here these days.

There IS something wrong with a 12 year old talking the shit this 12 year old was talking and the folks cosigning the logic used by this CHILD are simply more of the emotionally infected trying to spread their cancerous mental state. Like somebody else already said, if this story was flipped and it was a 12 year old girl making assumptions about black men, the responses would be 100% different.

When sisters cosign foul shit, I call it the "Go 'head girl" syndrome. When brothas cosign foul shit, I call it the "Go 'head girl" syndrome (not a typo, a bitch is a bitch).

 

[Izayoi]

These black men are bitter for the EXACT same reason their female couterparts are bitter. They have poor judgement and they blame any-and-everything for this poor judgement except the poor judgement itself. They then feed this skewed view of the world created in the cesspool of their own shallowness and stupidity to young black people to assure their cycle of stupidity and bitterness survives another generation.

This I agree with 100%. Same song, different singer.

There IS something wrong with a 12 year old talking the shit this 12 year old was talking and the folks cosigning the logic used by this CHILD are simply more of the emotionally infected trying to spread their cancerous mental state. Like somebody else already said, if this story was flipped and it was a 12 year old girl making assumptions about black men, the responses would be 100% different.

It's not about cosigning the logic, it's about exploring the origins of that logic. I'm telling you as an adult who has BEEN where those kids have been. Most parents sadly are not nearly as responsible or attentive as you seem to be. You noted a problem and you corrected it. Black parents have a tendency to send their kids into these all white institutions totally unarmed emotionally and psychologically for the white is right onslaught. They are KIDS (aka "sponges")- grown folks have to provide support and knowledge.

I went to an affluent public middle school school (bused in from a poor, black part of town)and I was the ONLY one in the "smart" classes. I only ever saw other black kids in gym and home economics, because the rest were in special ed.
No way that's not going to skew perceptions. My mother never had negative shit to say about black men, but ALL DAY I was bombarded with CACness. My father could have been a saint and I still would have had to grapple with the negative perceptions of young black men that I acquired from that experience.

I adore black men. I went to an all black college. I have a great black man , and wouldn't trade him for the world but I'm an ADULT able to see through bullshit. Kids aren't that equipped. I'm not going to villanize a little boy, because I have no idea what kind of man he will become once he gets a broader life experience (I hope).

I wonder if anybody bothered to read the blog post where the blog author admitted that her sister and that side of the family was overweight and yelled a lot?

...and Pogobor99
I'm not a fan of white people. I wouldn't be happy if my son PREFERRED white girls, but like SS said if he is an adult then that is his choice. If I have a son, I have no intention of sending him to a mostly all white school during his formative years. I think (I know) it can damage black childrens' self esteem - sometimes irreparably. But adults are going to do what they are going to do and I won't lose sleep over who somebody else chooses to love.

 

[Naha-Nago]

Switch out the he/man/him with she/woman/her in your 3rd to last paragraph and I agree with you sister.

*two cents*

This I agree with 100%. Same song, different singer.



It's not about cosigning the logic, it's about exploring the origins of that logic. I'm telling you as an adult who has BEEN where those kids have been. Most parents sadly are not nearly as responsible or attentive as you seem to be. You noted a problem and you corrected it. Black parents have a tendency to send their kids into these all white institutions totally unarmed emotionally and psychologically for the white is right onslaught. They are KIDS (aka "sponges")- grown folks have to provide support and knowledge.

I went to an affluent public middle school school (bused in from a poor, black part of town)and I was the ONLY one in the "smart" classes. I only ever saw other black kids in gym and home economics, because the rest were in special ed.
No way that's not going to skew perceptions. My mother never had negative shit to say about black men, but ALL DAY I was bombarded with CACness. My father could have been a saint and I still would have had to grapple with the negative perceptions of young black men that I acquired from that experience.

I adore black men. I went to an all black college. I have a great black man , and wouldn't trade him for the world but I'm an ADULT able to see through bullshit. Kids aren't that equipped. I'm not going to villanize a little boy, because I have no idea what kind of man he will become once he gets a broader life experience (I hope).

I wonder if anybody bothered to read the blog post where the blog author admitted that her sister and that side of the family was overweight and yelled a lot?

...and Pogobor99
I'm not a fan of white people. I wouldn't be happy if my son PREFERRED white girls, but like SS said if he is an adult then that is his choice. If I have a son, I have no intention of sending him to a mostly all white school during his formative years. I think (I know) it can damage black childrens' self esteem - sometimes irreparably. But adults are going to do what they are going to do and I won't lose sleep over who somebody else chooses to love.

 

[Mo-Better]

Many black children especially boys grow up confused. It starts with their parents when they sit their children down in front of the TV and let the TV entertain them for hours upon hours.

Those we view on TV are usually attractive they are usually shown with above average intelligence, class and style. Not trying to be funny but who wouldn't want someone like that in their lives?

Don't blame the boys, blame the parents they allowed this way of thinking to go unchecked. These parents failed to educate their children that blacks share the same good qualities as the whites they see on TV. But at the age of 12 they're too young to know what they want or like but their old enough to be corrected so there's still hope.

 

[Mr MajestiK]

When my daughters were younger, they used to spend the summers with their aunts. I had to cut the shit short when they came home after one summer talking about black men ain't this and black men ain't that. This just happened to coincide with my sister's divorce from her husband and subsequent relationship with a white guy and her step daughter's new relationship with a white guy after spending YEARS hand picking and getting fucked over by every lowlife nig she could find (including the father of her son who has been MIA since before he was born 7 years ago). My sister's husband was an obvious looser POS before she chose to marry him and every dude her stepdaughter has ever dated has been a POS as well (including the jobless white boy she is currently with who lives in her house, eats her food, drives her car and provides her with shit). The white guy my sister is currently with is no prize either given her extremely high standards when it comes to black men (brotha has to have advanced degrees and fat bank statements, white boy is a nightclub musician and substitute teacher who gets an allowance from my sister to keep up appearances, something she would NEVER do for a black man in a million years).

I have a niece who is 27 who has actually fallen out with her mother and aunts because, after going to a private boarding school 9-12 grade and attending Columbia U., found a laid back, intelligent, BLACK computer engineer and got engaged. My sisters OPENLY expressed disdain for the dude for no good reason other than him being black. They actually told her and attempted to tell my daughters that they should NEVER date a black man. Given that I, THEIR FATHER, happen to be a black man, I took issue with that bullshit and do not allow my kids around them unsupervised, PERIOD!

No trips to Disneyworld
No summer visits
No vacations with the aunties

I have three sisters and all of them have issues with black men because of self-imposed bullshit.

One has chased loosers her entire life and ended up giving birth to my niece from one of those loosers (this is the niece who has spent most of her life in the best schools).

Another has always had extremely high standards for what she wanted in a black man and then married a dude who had all of the external requirements, but ended up being a fraud and a hustler that took her to the cleaners

Another has simply spent 48 years of her life MANLESS

NONE of them should be offering opinions or advice to ANYONE when it comes to who they should date.

Now, the flipside. A lot of black "men" (the quote around the word men is 100% intentional because the term is used loosely as hell) have become everything they claim they hated about black women. Hell, to be honest, a LOT of black men have flat out BECOME black women. They are catty, loud, troublesome, have unrealistic standards and expectations that they only apply to their own and do not apply to other races and many of them feel 100% justified feeding that shit to any younger black men they come in contact with, including their sons. These black men are bitter for the EXACT same reason their female couterparts are bitter. They have poor judgement and they blame any-and-everything for this poor judgement except the poor judgement itself. They then feed this skewed view of the world created in the cesspool of their own shallowness and stupidity to young black people to assure their cycle of stupidity and bitterness survives another generation.

Hell, me and my wife would both most likely be considered "good" people, and I can't tell you how many single people have stepped to her and myself trying to throw salt so we could be as mindfucked and miserable as themselves (BGOL is a fraternity of the mindfucked, it's not just online anymore). Only solution is to cut these parasites loose and let them swim around in the petri dish they seem to so love to exist in and keep them away from any impressionable minds you can. Too many emotionally diseased folks out here these days.

There IS something wrong with a 12 year old talking the shit this 12 year old was talking and the folks cosigning the logic used by this CHILD are simply more of the emotionally infected trying to spread their cancerous mental state. Like somebody else already said, if this story was flipped and it was a 12 year old girl making assumptions about black men, the responses would be 100% different.

When sisters cosign foul shit, I call it the "Go 'head girl" syndrome. When brothas cosign foul shit, I call it the "Go 'head girl" syndrome (not a typo, a bitch is a bitch).

This is without a doubt, the most hands down realest post posted in this thread so far and I endorse it totally.

 

[sean69]

When my daughters were younger, they used to spend the summers with their aunts. I had to cut the shit short when they came home after one summer talking about black men ain't this and black men ain't that. This just happened to coincide with my sister's divorce from her husband and subsequent relationship with a white guy and her step daughter's new relationship with a white guy after spending YEARS hand picking and getting fucked over by every lowlife nig she could find (including the father of her son who has been MIA since before he was born 7 years ago). My sister's husband was an obvious looser POS before she chose to marry him and every dude her stepdaughter has ever dated has been a POS as well (including the jobless white boy she is currently with who lives in her house, eats her food, drives her car and provides her with shit). The white guy my sister is currently with is no prize either given her extremely high standards when it comes to black men (brotha has to have advanced degrees and fat bank statements, white boy is a nightclub musician and substitute teacher who gets an allowance from my sister to keep up appearances, something she would NEVER do for a black man in a million years).

I have a niece who is 27 who has actually fallen out with her mother and aunts because, after going to a private boarding school 9-12 grade and attending Columbia U., found a laid back, intelligent, BLACK computer engineer and got engaged. My sisters OPENLY expressed disdain for the dude for no good reason other than him being black. They actually told her and attempted to tell my daughters that they should NEVER date a black man. Given that I, THEIR FATHER, happen to be a black man, I took issue with that bullshit and do not allow my kids around them unsupervised, PERIOD!

No trips to Disneyworld
No summer visits
No vacations with the aunties

I have three sisters and all of them have issues with black men because of self-imposed bullshit.

One has chased loosers her entire life and ended up giving birth to my niece from one of those loosers (this is the niece who has spent most of her life in the best schools).

Another has always had extremely high standards for what she wanted in a black man and then married a dude who had all of the external requirements, but ended up being a fraud and a hustler that took her to the cleaners

Another has simply spent 48 years of her life MANLESS

NONE of them should be offering opinions or advice to ANYONE when it comes to who they should date.

OK. From the first part here, it's pretty clear that your sisters have some issues. IMO, to summarize it as "self-imposed bull-shit" is a gross over simplification. Most of the time issues like this stem from a lack of a stable family structure growing up and especially, in the case of women, not having a supportive father (or father figure) around. And even more so for young black girls growing up in a society replete with all kinds of cultural stereotypes imagery and societal fuckedupness. Private school are certainly not exempt.

There's a special bond between daughters and their dads which affects their emotional adjustment. This is particularly important during the transitional period between childhood and adolescence when girls are changing physically and emotionally and start searching for their identity as a woman. Ironically, this is the time that most fathers tend to pull away from their daughters because they're uncomfortable with the daughter's new and changing sexuality. The "go talk to your mother about that" period. And this is for the fathers who are actually around.

Lots of research has been done on this.

But essentially, most of what you've described here are the issue of your sisters - black WOMEN.

Now, the flipside. A lot of black "men" (the quote around the word men is 100% intentional because the term is used loosely as hell) have become everything they claim they hated about black women. Hell, to be honest, a LOT of black men have flat out BECOME black women. They are catty, loud, troublesome, have unrealistic standards and expectations that they only apply to their own and do not apply to other races and many of them feel 100% justified feeding that shit to any younger black men they come in contact with, including their sons. These black men are bitter for the EXACT same reason their female couterparts are bitter. They have poor judgement and they blame any-and-everything for this poor judgement except the poor judgement itself. They then feed this skewed view of the world created in the cesspool of their own shallowness and stupidity to young black people to assure their cycle of stupidity and bitterness survives another generation.

Again, perhaps an over simplification and most likely explained and understood better from their upbringing and father-son relationship. Which, like you've mentioned above, cycles in a self-regulating and self-configuring vicious feed-back loop. The "poor judgment" doesn't just emerge from nothing.

Hell, me and my wife would both most likely be considered "good" people, and I can't tell you how many single people have stepped to her and myself trying to throw salt so we could be as mindfucked and miserable as themselves (BGOL is a fraternity of the mindfucked, it's not just online anymore). Only solution is to cut these parasites loose and let them swim around in the petri dish they seem to so love to exist in and keep them away from any impressionable minds you can. Too many emotionally diseased folks out here these days.

There IS something wrong with a 12 year old talking the shit this 12 year old was talking and the folks cosigning the logic used by this CHILD are simply more of the emotionally infected trying to spread their cancerous mental state. Like somebody else already said, if this story was flipped and it was a 12 year old girl making assumptions about black men, the responses would be 100% different.

When sisters cosign foul shit, I call it the "Go 'head girl" syndrome. When brothas cosign foul shit, I call it the "Go 'head girl" syndrome (not a typo, a bitch is a bitch).

Like Izzy said, it's not about the "logic" of the situation but more about its "locus". So this superlative jabber and back-and-forth "brothas vs sistas" rhetoric is meaningless and redundant.

I believe psychoanalysts call it "Transference".

This is without a doubt, the most hands down realest post posted in this thread so far and I endorse it totally.

See.

 

[JofromthaNO]

Lots of interesting comments being thrown around in here...

I'm enjoying reading them...some good black dialogue, YES!

I think Zero and Izy are onto something with their posts, particularly with the posts regarding that a CHILD is going to be the product of the environment he/she is reared and spends majority of time within. So, for a private-school reared child, I can only imagine the amount of information he hears from teachers, his classmates, etc. about his blackness...

 

[Cleopatra_J]

I wonder how some of the women on the board would feel if their son's (if they had any) grew up think foundly of white women via environment or preference...


*two cents*

Like SS & Izzy said if he was a grown man I can't force him to date a black woman, but a son that told me he blatantly preferred white women would be hurtful. I would hope that me & my husband have given him good examples of black women and men..

 

[ansatsusha_gouki]

Like SS & Izzy said if he was a grown man I can't force him to date a black woman, but a son that told me he blatantly preferred white women would be hurtful. I would hope that me & my husband have given him good examples of black women and men..

How is being with a white woman hurtful





I just dont understand that nonsense if a guy wants to be with someone other than black chick why should you care........Ive always been attractive to asian girls every since I was a kid it didnt stop me from being with a black,white and mexican girl.....but anyone who knows me knows I prefer asian women..

It dont have nothing to do with you.........Everyone in the world have what type of guy or girl they want to be with and you cant stop someone one who they like...

Thats like sayin you feel disappointed if someone likes vanilla but you want them to like chocolate...You cant make someone like what you like......This one of the main reason I have to leave my last girlfriend because she always wanted me to listen and like the shit she was into.......


My own mother tried to pull that nonsense on me when I was a kid and it didnt work at all....Just because a guy/woman dont prefer a group of people outside being black dont make them a fuckin sell out...People kill me with this bullshit

 

[LoneStar29]

There IS something wrong with a 12 year old talking the shit this 12 year old was talking and the folks cosigning the logic used by this CHILD are simply more of the emotionally infected trying to spread their cancerous mental state. Like somebody else already said, if this story was flipped and it was a 12 year old girl making assumptions about black men, the responses would be 100% different.

When sisters cosign foul shit, I call it the "Go 'head girl" syndrome. When brothas cosign foul shit, I call it the "Go 'head girl" syndrome (not a typo, a bitch is a bitch).

Great post Zero, I C/S

Like SS & Izzy said if he was a grown man I can't force him to date a black woman, but a son that told me he blatantly preferred white women would be hurtful. I would hope that me & my husband have given him good examples of black women and men..

C/S ... it would suck to see him fall into the hype of white women are prettier, better but at the same time I would never disown my son and I would have to grow to love her as long as she treated my son right

 

[SoopamanLuva]

In my opinion, now adays black kids don't learn our history, they don't know our background and thus are not proud of who they are as black people. The kids parents have neglected their duty to raise children and inform them on the strong black history that we have and all the kids see is what's on tv and around them. We know their ant much positive on tv, and if the parents aren't doing their jobs, what positive image do they have to draw from?

My grandparents sat and told me stories about my family which gave me a since of pride, most kids now don't have that. Parents are either dead or in jail or just pLain piss poor at parenting. If they don't have there parents to fall back on, they are gonna go to school and soak up all that bs that floats around there. Private school is probably worse because most black kids are a glaring minority. When your a minority, your needs usually don't get met. The only black thing they are exposed to is probably black history month and you know how much bullshit that is. Bottom line, your parents are supposed to be steering you and patents now aren't up to the task.

 

[Zero]

OK. From the first part here, it's pretty clear that your sisters have some issues. IMO, to summarize it as "self-imposed bull-shit" is a gross over simplification. Most of the time issues like this stem from a lack of a stable family structure growing up and especially, in the case of women, not having a supportive father (or father figure) around. And even more so for young black girls growing up in a society replete with all kinds of cultural stereotypes imagery and societal fuckedupness. Private school are certainly not exempt.

There's a special bond between daughters and their dads which affects their emotional adjustment. This is particularly important during the transitional period between childhood and adolescence when girls are changing physically and emotionally and start searching for their identity as a woman. Ironically, this is the time that most fathers tend to pull away from their daughters because they're uncomfortable with the daughter's new and changing sexuality. The "go talk to your mother about that" period. And this is for the fathers who are actually around.

Lots of research has been done on this.

But essentially, most of what you've described here are the issue of your sisters - black WOMEN.





Again, perhaps an over simplification and most likely explained and understood better from their upbringing and father-son relationship. Which, like you've mentioned above, cycles in a self-regulating and self-configuring vicious feed-back loop. The "poor judgment" doesn't just emerge from nothing.

In this case, I know EXACTLY what their problem is. My mother's side of the family is EXTREMELY matriarchal. There are male figures in the family, but they fall into two categories...

1. Males that grew to be decent men, but subsequently fell out with the matriarchal structure of the family because the females in the family simply would not allow them a place at the family table
2. Males who participated in the matriarchal family structure and "played their position" within that structure (they either came off as neutered, screw-ups or hostile).

My father was considered "hostile" by my mother's family and since he did not have a large extended family, he had noone on his side of the family besides himself and a few older relatives that could be presented to my sisters as positive male role models to counteract what was happening on my mother's side of the family. My mother was a good woman, but she too bought into the matriarchal family system because HER mother and her MOTHER's mother both bought into it wholesale (as have all of the other females in the family). My mother considered me to be "special", any other male friends, aquaintances or family members who also happened to not be fuckups were either not accepted or were labelled "special" as well. With me, my Dad countered this by constantly letting me know that I was NOT special because I was not a criminal, a fag, a looser or whatever other negative indicator was used to separate me from the rest of the black male world, he beat into my head from a very young age that MY ACTIONS would determine just how special I would be, not the INACTIONS of others. Had my father not been in the picture, I would be an ENTIRELY different man than i am today. Because my father only had himself to point to as a positive familial male role model, it was just too easy to counter that by turning him into the proverbial 4-leaf clover (another "special" black man). He was presented as the exception, not the rule, and any number of other neutered men in the family (some were just weak, others were drug addicts, criminals, etc) were presented as the norm. Even within the family, the loosers were not the majority, but the good men, as with any GOOD man, were not entertaining the bullshit and thus, were never around to counter it.

My Dad was expert at raising son's, but he was unable to counteract much of what his daughters were fed. His "expertise' at raising me was partially due to him being a good man and partially due to the simple fact that there was no countering force in the family like the one working on my sisters their entire lives. That is why all of my sisters are (for all external indicators) "successful" women financially and from the standpoint of education, but fail at many more personal aspects of what makes one successful in LIFE as a whole.

Now out of everything I posted, I'm gonna quote myself because one thing I posted here is VERY important to understand and VERY easy to see in others and tends to be a VERY good indicator of how a person was raised...

He beat into my head from a very young age that MY ACTIONS would determine just how special I would be, not the INACTIONS of others.

I quote this because it is something I constantly here in the black community. The bad shit you AVOID does NOT make you special, the good shit you ACCOMPLISH does. If all you can say for yourself is "At least I got a job", "At least I raise my kids", "At least I've never been to jail", then YOU HAVE ACCOMPLISHED NOTHING and thus, can not claim to be "special". If you have written off an entire group of people because some of them are "loud" or "fat" then YOU have the problem, not that entire group of people. We too often use the negative as our baseline, flipping that and using a positive baseline for your own actions and guaging the actions of others makes a world of difference in who you become and who you end up sharing your life with.

If you had a habit of dating black loosers and/or hoes and you honestly feel that simply switching races is all it will take to fix your problem, you are pretty much fucking doomed to failure.

 

[Zero]

How is being with a white woman hurtful





I just dont understand that nonsense if a guy wants to be with someone other than black chick why should you care........Ive always been attractive to asian girls every since I was a kid it didnt stop me from being with a black,white and mexican girl.....but anyone who knows me knows I prefer asian women..

It dont have nothing to do with you.........Everyone in the world have what type of guy or girl they want to be with and you cant stop someone one who they like...

Thats like sayin you feel disappointed if someone likes vanilla but you want them to like chocolate...You cant make someone like what you like......This one of the main reason I have to leave my last girlfriend because she always wanted me to listen and like the shit she was into.......


My own mother tried to pull that nonsense on me when I was a kid and it didnt work at all....Just because a guy/woman dont prefer a group of people outside being black dont make them a fuckin sell out...People kill me with this bullshit

Its not about who a person chooses to be with, its about WHY they make that choice. In this situaiton, the youngin has made a choice based upon stereotypes and misinformation. If the choices a person makes at that age are based upon bad info and that is not corrected because of some prejudices the parent may have (or simply because the parent shares that preference), that is a problem. If your child is placed in an environment where they have no access to their own cultural reality as a black person, it is SOMEBODY's job to make sure he or she gets the information they need to make informed decisions.

I'll go back to my niece as an example. She went to a private boarding school in rural Virginia from the age of 13 until 18. Prior to going to that private school, her mother did her best to ingrain in her the idea that "black men ain't shit". During this entire time, I was always the voice of dissent to her mother and aunt's bullshit. Since their bad decisions regarding dating were always SO evident and my dissent by example and words to their bullshit ideologies was so consistent, the battle for her particular mind was won. Had I been like, "Well, I've dated a few white girls and that Monique chick sure is loud and fat. I guess I see where she is coming from", then she'd probably be in the same bitter boat as her aunts right now and most likely would be with a looser because she would expect nothing less from a black man. Too many of our young sisters DEMAND the shit they have been fed since childhood in a black man and do not see him just as a man first (same with young brothers and black women). It is almost as if black folks won't allow each other to just be people first, but WILL allow that when they cross over.

Example: The sister around the way who only dated smooth-ass players and ballers within her race shows up at the spot with a white boy who talks about "World of Warcraft" all night and works at Gamestop. It may not be that she lowered her standards when she switched teams (she probably did, but its not necessarily always the case), its just that she reserved judgement of that white boy until she had all the info she needed to make the decision he was the right dude for her. She expected one thing from the black guys based upon pre-conceived notions and she expected another from the white boy because she really had nothing to go on to judge him but HIM.

Another thing, and trust this, any REAL Asian broad that would let a brotha date her because he has deemed her more "passive" or "compliant" than sisters or white man who would let a sista date him because he's supposed to be less "aggressive" or "macho" than black men is just as mindfucked as the mindfucked black person that chose them. A stereotype is a stereotype, I would not appreaciate a white woman stepping to me because she thought I'd be more "alpha" than her white brethren or because she thought my dick was bigger, even if the shit is flattering in a backhanded sort of way.

 

[SoopamanLuva]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Your pops was a REAL man.

In this case, I know EXACTLY what their problem is. My mother's side of the family is EXTREMELY matriarchal. There are male figures in the family, but they fall into two categories...

1. Males that grew to be decent men, but subsequently fell out with the matriarchal structure of the family because the females in the family simply would not allow them a place at the family table
2. Males who participated in the matriarchal family structure and "played their position" within that structure (they either came off as neutered, screw-ups or hostile).

My father was considered "hostile" by my mother's family and since he did not have a large extended family, he had noone on his side of the family besides himself and a few older relatives that could be presented to my sisters as positive male role models to counteract what was happening on my mother's side of the family. My mother was a good woman, but she too bought into the matriarchal family system because HER mother and her MOTHER's mother both bought into it wholesale (as have all of the other females in the family). My mother considered me to be "special", any other male friends, aquaintances or family members who also happened to not be fuckups were either not accepted or were labelled "special" as well. With me, my Dad countered this by constantly letting me know that I was NOT special because I was not a criminal, a fag, a looser or whatever other negative indicator was used to separate me from the rest of the black male world, he beat into my head from a very young age that MY ACTIONS would determine just how special I would be, not the INACTIONS of others. Had my father not been in the picture, I would be an ENTIRELY different man than i am today. Because my father only had himself to point to as a positive familial male role model, it was just too easy to counter that by turning him into the proverbial 4-leaf clover (another "special" black man). He was presented as the exception, not the rule, and any number of other neutered men in the family (some were just weak, others were drug addicts, criminals, etc) were presented as the norm. Even within the family, the loosers were not the majority, but the good men, as with any GOOD man, were not entertaining the bullshit and thus, were never around to counter it.

My Dad was expert at raising son's, but he was unable to counteract much of what his daughters were fed. His "expertise' at raising me was partially due to him being a good man and partially due to the simple fact that there was no countering force in the family like the one working on my sisters their entire lives. That is why all of my sisters are (for all external indicators) "successful" women financially and from the standpoint of education, but fail at many more personal aspects of what makes one successful in LIFE as a whole.

Now out of everything I posted, I'm gonna quote myself because one thing I posted here is VERY important to understand and VERY easy to see in others and tends to be a VERY good indicator of how a person was raised...



I quote this because it is something I constantly here in the black community. The bad shit you AVOID does NOT make you special, the good shit you ACCOMPLISH does. If all you can say for yourself is "At least I got a job", "At least I raise my kids", "At least I've never been to jail", then YOU HAVE ACCOMPLISHED NOTHING and thus, can not claim to be "special". If you have written off an entire group of people because some of them are "loud" or "fat" then YOU have the problem, not that entire group of people. We too often use the negative as our baseline, flipping that and using a positive baseline for your own actions and guaging the actions of others makes a world of difference in who you become and who you end up sharing your life with.

If you had a habit of dating black loosers and/or hoes and you honestly feel that simply switching races is all it will take to fix your problem, you are pretty much fucking doomed to failure.

 

[Zero]

In my opinion, now adays black kids don't learn our history, they don't know our background and thus are not proud of who they are as black people. The kids parents have neglected their duty to raise children and inform them on the strong black history that we have and all the kids see is what's on tv and around them. We know their ant much positive on tv, and if the parents aren't doing their jobs, what positive image do they have to draw from?

My grandparents sat and told me stories about my family which gave me a since of pride, most kids now don't have that. Parents are either dead or in jail or just pLain piss poor at parenting. If they don't have there parents to fall back on, they are gonna go to school and soak up all that bs that floats around there. Private school is probably worse because most black kids are a glaring minority. When your a minority, your needs usually don't get met. The only black thing they are exposed to is probably black history month and you know how much bullshit that is. Bottom line, your parents are supposed to be steering you and patents now aren't up to the task.

This is SO real. Cats are quick to discredit black men like Harry Belafonte or other black visionaries from the 60's because of their interactions with white women, but dating/fucking/marrying white women was not an issue for them because they had the foundation and knew who they were as black people. You can date who the fuck you want as long as YOU know who YOU are. if you know who you are, then the person you are with has no choice but to respect who you are as well (stands to reason you would not be with them if anything else were the case). You choose to be with a person because they complete and compliment YOU and that person could be ANY color, but if you initially chose that person because of some assumption of superiority based upon race, you got problems.

You have black folks now that are literally ASHAMED to provide some cultural foundation for their children because they have been sold a bullshit bill of goods that they are reverse racists and that in a colorblind society, the color black has no place. Other cultures do not have this issue because they can raise their children immersed in their Irish, Chinese, Hindu or Cuban heritage, thus avoiding the racial aspect (hell a GERMAN can feel more comfortable than an AA embracing his heritage and its many ugly bruises). Well, being black in America IS a culture all its own and it deserves as much attention as any other. Black folks in this country share more culturally than damn near any other group outside of possibly Jews, yet we have been taught to ignore that bond or be labelled "militant".

 

[SoopamanLuva]

Zero bringing that heat today. Hats off to you

 

[sean69]

In this case, I know EXACTLY what their problem is. My mother's side of the family is EXTREMELY matriarchal. There are male figures in the family, but they fall into two categories...

1. Males that grew to be decent men, but subsequently fell out with the matriarchal structure of the family because the females in the family simply would not allow them a place at the family table
2. Males who participated in the matriarchal family structure and "played their position" within that structure (they either came off as neutered, screw-ups or hostile).

My father was considered "hostile" by my mother's family and since he did not have a large extended family, he had noone on his side of the family besides himself and a few older relatives that could be presented to my sisters as positive male role models to counteract what was happening on my mother's side of the family. My mother was a good woman, but she too bought into the matriarchal family system because HER mother and her MOTHER's mother both bought into it wholesale (as have all of the other females in the family). My mother considered me to be "special", any other male friends, aquaintances or family members who also happened to not be fuckups were either not accepted or were labelled "special" as well. With me, my Dad countered this by constantly letting me know that I was NOT special because I was not a criminal, a fag, a looser or whatever other negative indicator was used to separate me from the rest of the black male world, he beat into my head from a very young age that MY ACTIONS would determine just how special I would be, not the INACTIONS of others. Had my father not been in the picture, I would be an ENTIRELY different man than i am today. Because my father only had himself to point to as a positive familial male role model, it was just too easy to counter that by turning him into the proverbial 4-leaf clover (another "special" black man). He was presented as the exception, not the rule, and any number of other neutered men in the family (some were just weak, others were drug addicts, criminals, etc) were presented as the norm. Even within the family, the loosers were not the majority, but the good men, as with any GOOD man, were not entertaining the bullshit and thus, were never around to counter it.

My Dad was expert at raising son's, but he was unable to counteract much of what his daughters were fed. His "expertise' at raising me was partially due to him being a good man and partially due to the simple fact that there was no countering force in the family like the one working on my sisters their entire lives. That is why all of my sisters are (for all external indicators) "successful" women financially and from the standpoint of education, but fail at many more personal aspects of what makes one successful in LIFE as a whole.

Now out of everything I posted, I'm gonna quote myself because one thing I posted here is VERY important to understand and VERY easy to see in others and tends to be a VERY good indicator of how a person was raised...



I quote this because it is something I constantly here in the black community. The bad shit you AVOID does NOT make you special, the good shit you ACCOMPLISH does. If all you can say for yourself is "At least I got a job", "At least I raise my kids", "At least I've never been to jail", then YOU HAVE ACCOMPLISHED NOTHING and thus, can not claim to be "special". If you have written off an entire group of people because some of them are "loud" or "fat" then YOU have the problem, not that entire group of people. We too often use the negative as our baseline, flipping that and using a positive baseline for your own actions and guaging the actions of others makes a world of difference in who you become and who you end up sharing your life with.

If you had a habit of dating black loosers and/or hoes and you honestly feel that simply switching races is all it will take to fix your problem, you are pretty much fucking doomed to failure.

Good read. Exactly like I said. They had no supportive father figure. This is the case almost 99.9% of the time and even exacerbated by the matriarchal environment.

Interestingly enough, before I got to the part where you quoted yourself, I was going to highlight that part. Pretty sound advice.

It's that brand of "black male exceptionalism" that's one of the main tumors hindering the progress of our people. Coming from an academic background where there's a very little representation, I witness this first hand.


Like I said, "poor judgement" doesn't just "happen".

 

[Zero]

Good read. Exactly like I said. They had no supportive father figure. This is the case almost 99.9% of the time and even exacerbated by the matriarchal environment.

Interestingly enough, before I got to the part where you quoted yourself, I was going to highlight that part. Pretty sound advice.

It's that brand of "black male exceptionalism" that's one of the main tumors hindering the progress of our people. Coming from an academic background where there's a very little representation, I witness this first hand.


Like I said, "poor judgement" doesn't just "happen".

They had a supportive father figure, its just that the father figure was undercut by a lot of negative BS from the extended family. It had a negative affect on damn near all of the male and female members of the family. My father's influence most likely kept their situations from being a LOT more fucked up than they actually were, they, at least, are highly functioning dysfunctional women (if that makes sense). I think the problem is that the black community is so matriarchal in the first place. Families I personally have witnessed that had a widespread positive male influence don't seem to have these issues where families that have a widespread female influence, even if positive, are more prone to this kind of shit. My previous comment would be deemed as "sexist" in many circles, but that too is a big part of the problem. We can't tell the truth for fear of PC reprisals. A family without strong men simply has a harder road to travel to achieve success no matter how strong the women in that family may be. A family with a single patriarch will even tend to be more successful than one with several strong feminine figures, a family with several strong male role models is almost guaranteed to succeed. Black women AND MEN need to understand this and once again internalize it.

My mom's family is a wash to me, it has been what it has been for far too long. The formula they thought was one for success only sustained for a single generation (my mother's) before it fell apart under the weight of it's own bullshit. My mother and her siblings have all done well for themselves, some are even quite wealthy, their children, even the wealthy ones, are, for the most part, a mess. If my father failed at anything, it was that he put so much focus on me and far less on my sisters, but that was because he knew, in that environment, I was going to be the one targeted for demolition by the women in the family, not them. I've watched the men my age in that family be destroyed in one way or another one by one until I can count on one hand how many of them are not shells of either what they were or what they could have been. I've watched the women in that family destroy them by either reminding them constantly what they were not or feeding them constant bullshit about what they supposedly, but undeservedly were.

A strong man has always been and will always be the foundation of a family, but a woman has to understand and embrace her role in a family as well to not become emotional anti-matter (by that I mean men and women should ENHANCE each others presence in the family and not cancel each other out). I've had to argue with my wife about familial roles and why they must be in place. It's not trivial shit and too many women AND men have come to believe otherwise to their own detriment. Just because we were forced to accept a shitty familial arrangement in this country due to conditions we had very little control over does not mean that the approach is the best one to take. I love my momma to death, but I can plainly see what a fucking mess my family would have been without my father, and my mom was a strong woman (whether I personally agreed with many of her stances or not).

 

[Zero]

A good example is my wife's family. Success is expected, shit DEMANDED in her family. The vast majority of the male figures in the family are successful, intelligent and highly functioning and IN CHARGE. The female members of the family are equally successful, intelligent and highly functioning, but they were raised to understand and accept roles within the family. Doesn't mean they are subserviant, just means that they respect the traditional family roles. Result is not only do they all have "good jobs" (always hated that term because it is relative) and good educational backgrounds, but they are also all (for the most part) in nurturing relationships with decent people.