Nas vs. Rakim

[FJP]

Jordan didn't say that Dr. J was the GOAT either. When somebody says that it has meaning because while you may consider somebody great, putting OF ALL TIME behind it raises them to a level above ALL others. If Nas didn't believe that Rakim was the GOAT he could have just called him an idol or one of his favorite emcees. You don't call somebody that just to flatter them.

man do you really believe every rapper that said it believes Rakim is the best rapper of all time? Seriously? Its a matter of homage. And Jordan did say to him J was the greatest he'd ever seen that was his idol. Plus Nas grew up listening to Rakim..when you grow up listening to something no matter you yourself do, your favorite is still going to be your favorite, even if you are better you arent gonna say it, its not the "professional" thing to do. Name one rapper who has ever said he's better than a pioneer/trendsetter from the early age of the game?...

 

[jiggylo09]

See where I said do ur Home work FJP you said You'll take Nas The Message over Rakim Microphone Fiend!!!! See now Ur going in Detention Where do you think nas got the song The Message from.......times up Melle Mel!!! Nas is a biter also....and a Ford Model T is worth more than a Benz!!!! Do ur Home work!!!!!

 

[donwuan]

good topic and good responses. i gotta go with Nas because he still strong in the game. He's my favorite MC to date. Ra's no joke and he had a hella flow but I disagree with the fact that he changed the game. There where alot of cats flowing hard back then. And if you say Ra changed the game then you gotta give props to Kane, KRS, and a whole lot more cats. hip hop was pro-black back then Rah topic where not that unique beside the 5% influence. Paid in Full while hot wasn't a deep song and that what Ra is known for. While Rule the World was a classic and a hot topic.

one.

 

[FJP]

You couldn't have been around when Paid In Full dropped, because it was the album that changed hip hop. Rewind, while a groundbreaking work, didn't change that game. Nas is a creative cat, but he hasn't changed hip hop.

You comparing impact. Im comparing them. Its not about changing the game. Im comparing them. I never said Rewind change the game. All I said was name a track where Rakim is as deep and creative with a subject...you couldnt. Now next question.

 

[hotair]

Name one rapper who has ever said he's better than a pioneer/trendsetter from the early age of the game?...

Being better is a matter of opinion. Greatness is recognized by all. In your opinion Nas is a better MC, I believe Rakim is. However, until Nas changes the whole game I'm not willing to call him the GOAT.

 

[jiggylo09]

Homework? ...Man please. All cars are inspired by Ford, but does that mean the Model T is the best car of all time? No it just means it was the first. Inspiration, you act like anybody who's any good at anything doesnt strive to be the best. Do you really think Nas picked the Mic up thinking "Damn I want to be the best except for Rakim"...No you strive to be the best period. He took Inspiration from Rakim and put his own style into and made his own. There is no homework to do, both glorified their era so whats your point. Im talking about flow, lyrics, concepts and complexity you can compare that all day and how you can say Nas isnt as least equal befuddles me..

And Who said Nas is the Best if Big was alive Nas would've never came at Jay cause Big would 've still be Kickin in the Door on Nasir Jones and He still would of been doing songs like "Shorty You can have my ice"

 

[FJP]

See where I said do ur Home work FJP you said You'll take Nas The Message over Rakim Microphone Fiend!!!! See now Ur going in Detention Where do you think nas got the song The Message from.......times up Melle Mel!!! Nas is a biter also....and a Ford Model T is worth more than a Benz!!!! Do ur Home work!!!!!

Him getting it from Melle Mel means what?...... No idea is a original. You act like Rakim wasnt influenced by anybody or anything man get real. Hip Hop itself is sampled genre..do your homework on that. And again a Model T is worth more because its OLDER does that mean it is a BETTER car...We are not arguing who is older...we are arguing the better product.

 

[FJP]

Being better is a matter of opinion. Greatness is recognized by all. In your opinion Nas is a better MC, I believe Rakim is. However, until Nas changes the whole game I'm not willing to call him the GOAT.

You are saying Ra changed the whole game come on now you act like he was the first 5 percent rapper, he was the best tho. Come on now, KANE, justice, jungle brothers, man others were repping Zulu 5 percent HARD..dont act like the movement started with Ra please dont do that. PRT..and many others as well. Ra was the best at his time. But dont act like the whole game wanted to be like Ra. Dont act like the game bowed down on some mythical level.

 

[hotair]

You comparing impact. Im comparing them. Its not about changing the game. Im comparing them. I never said Rewind change the game. All I said was name a track where Rakim is as deep and creative with a subject...you couldnt. Now next question.

Hell Ice Cube had some deep lyrics and ushered in the Gangsta era of hip hop. But is he the GOAT because he had deep and creative lyrics? I would put the old Cube a notch above Nas. Why? Again, because he revolutionized the game on a level that is still being imitated today. The same can be said for Rakim. Who is imitating Nas's style or technique?

I get it. You like Nas better.

 

[jiggylo09]

Him getting it from Melle Mel means what?...... No idea is a original. You act like Rakim wasnt influenced by anybody or anything man get real. Hip Hop itself is sampled genre..do your homework on that. And again a Model T is worth more because its OLDER does that mean it is a BETTER car...We are not arguing who is older...we are arguing the better product.

So Tell me whats the purpose of a Car!!!! Don't get frustrated you posted this stupid ass board I should give you Nas number so he can tell u himself Im talking to other cats right now the all telling me you lost ur mind "I know who I paid Search Lite Publishing" " You Still Recoupin Stupid" Nas is a good Artist maybe # 4 or 5 of all time you must not be from NY

 

[hotair]

You are saying Ra changed the whole game come on now you act like he was the first 5 percent rapper, he was the best tho. Come on now, KANE, justice, jungle brothers, man others were repping Zulu 5 percent HARD..dont act like the movement started with Ra please dont do that. PRT..and many others as well. Ra was the best at his time. But dont act like the whole game wanted to be like Ra. Dont act like the game bowed down on some mythical level.

WHAT? Now I know you can't remember hip hop prior to 1987. You completely got it twisted now. Find an old Kane track prior to Long Live the Kane and see if you think he was spitting the same. Listen to the 1st PE album and see if they were spitting the same. Most emcees prior to Rakim patterned themselves after Run DMC. Listen to the 1st Geto Boys album and see how they changed after Paid In Full. It has nothing to do with reppin' 5 %. That wasn't what made all of them great, but it did add to their knowledge.

 

[Spectrum]

WHAT? Now I know you can't remember hip hop prior to 1987. You completely got it twisted now. Find an old Kane track prior to Long Live the Kane and see if you think he was spitting the same. Listen to the 1st PE album and see if they were spitting the same. Most emcees prior to Rakim patterned themselves after Run DMC. Listen to the 1st Geto Boys album and see how they changed after Paid In Full. It has nothing to do with reppin' 5 %. That wasn't what made all of them great, but it did add to their knowledge.

 

[Jagi]

the problem with comparing them is catalog..

you dont know what direction, growth etc Rakim would have taken.. and not from staying famous or relevent but just from still at it hard like krs one, nas etc..

its similar to my prob with the biggie/pac thing.. imo biggie the better mc, but.. rhyme for rhyme biggie stops short cause of his small catalog.. after pacs 3rd album what you going to do repeat biggies?

for a true battle its either to live mc's going at it head to head live with them choosing their weapons/lyrics of choice or catalog for catalog

A battle would be interesting with anyone of caliber against rakim.. when rakim did that cameo on truth hurts joint.. one verse let everyone know that rakim could still hold it down..

wouldnt be surprised if him being held back was a conspiracy by weak rappers and managers making money of off wack talent..

just like krs one, rakim could hurt some careers and feelings.

 

[FJP]

So Tell me whats the purpose of a Car!!!! Don't get frustrated you posted this stupid ass board I should give you Nas number so he can tell u himself Im talking to other cats right now the all telling me you lost ur mind "I know who I paid Search Lite Publishing" " You Still Recoupin Stupid" Nas is a good Artist maybe # 4 or 5 of all time you must not be from NY

Now you bringing up money and businesss. Nobody is frustrated. Its obvious you are since you have stop talking about lyrics and you are talking about finances. And Iam from New York in fact I work at Def Jam. I could care less who you are talking to. And come on man you really comparing a Model T to Mercedes? The purpose of a car is transportation, can a model T get you to a destination, faster, or safer than any modern car? No. So your argument isnt valid...

 

[Legacyns]

I dont know where it is because I never tried. But cats on here put polls in their posts so its there somewhere.

as far as Rakim being the GOAT.

First i want to say...that Nas can be at the top of any list or top 3 and it could be legitimate. I just prefer putting Rakim there for the following reason..i have more.. but I dont want to spend much time with this shit.

1. He changed the face of hip-hop. He ushered that whole multi-syllabic lyricism and internal rhyme scheme to the game. It did not even exist before him. His wordplay is top notch. I love Nas, but he has done nothing to CHANGE the game. He has come with heat... but never game-changing heat.


2. You mentioned timeless. Man. I still put in Paid in Full and it still is that fire...same as the first time I listened to it. I can listen to a Rakim track and it sounds like it was made just yesterday dude was so ahead of his time.

3. Even if you dont call Rakim the GOAT, you would probably agree he was the most influential. He fathered a whole new era.

Nas dropped a hip hop classic... and the album I have probably listened to more than any other album: Illmatic.. but he has dropped his fair share of hot trash as well... Nastradamus immediately comes to mind. Plus man..I dont think Nas has ever been hotter than on his first album. He has a lot of hot songs and good albums.. but like Jay Z.. he peeked on his first album.. I cant call him the greatest if all his work after his first album doesnt live up to the first work.

Rakim has not had the commercial success of Nas... but I think just on being an MC.. I would go with Rakim

I have to co-sign a lot of this post. Clearly Nas is more lyrically but the question we have to ask ourselves is if there's isn't a Ra, is there a Nas?

On point 1, I totally agree.

Rakim is the father of the modern lyricism ( along with Kool G Rap, Grand Puba, the D.O.C. Big Daddy Kane, etc ). They ushered in the new, highly complex lyricism. Guy like Nas, Em, Ras Kass, Jay, Canibus, Pac, Big, Common, Mos Def, Talib, Black Thought, etc are branches on that tree.

On points #2 & #3, Rakim lyrics still bang today. Not only the timeless classics but even the stuff he released later. I can still listen to "It's Been a Long Time" or "When I'm Flowin'" & the shyt is still as classic as "Mahogany", "I Ain't No Joke" or Microphone Fiend". And he not only fathered a whole era but he might be the only undisputed ruler lyrically of an era in hip-hop history. Ra was CLEARLY the best emcee of his time.

And, we can't discount the fact that they're in different eras. I'm not surprised that the Wu (gotta be the most talent group of emcees eva) was more lyrical than Run DMC (most influential & probably the greatest group eva). However, when you go back & listen to "Rock Box", "Raising Hell", "Sucker Emcee", King of Rock", that shyt is STILL ROCKIN! It's almost like comparing athletes in different eras..


You're right tho. Illmatic is a classic among classics. And "Ether" might be the best diss record ever recorded. I've seriously been trying to think of one that tops it but I starting to think Nas made the greatest diss record ever. That shyt totally shut it down!

 

[dacrazydeafdawg]

Unless Im missing where the shit is I dont see the "add a poll option" And cats that are making choices at least give a reason.

under the thread tools

 

[FJP]

WHAT? Now I know you can't remember hip hop prior to 1987. You completely got it twisted now. Find an old Kane track prior to Long Live the Kane and see if you think he was spitting the same. Listen to the 1st PE album and see if they were spitting the same. Most emcees prior to Rakim patterned themselves after Run DMC. Listen to the 1st Geto Boys album and see how they changed after Paid In Full. It has nothing to do with reppin' 5 %. That wasn't what made all of them great, but it did add to their knowledge.

So now you sayin Kane got his style from Rakim..this is laughable now. So I guess KRS had no hand in cats stepping their lyrical game up either huh?

 

[alexw]

FJP, you have lost your damn mind....its okay to be a fan of Nas and all but damn


niggas act like Rakim didnt change the game for all rappers...

niggas forget about the classic he dropped in 97

dude never lost it

Nas cant compare.......

Nas is illmatic and ummmmmmmmmmmmm illmatic

enough said

 

[FJP]

Bottom line of the thread was who was the better lyricist, not impact, not the better pioneer, lyric for lyric who was better and for the most part people are finding long ways to say Nas

 

[J Storm]

WHAT? Now I know you can't remember hip hop prior to 1987. You completely got it twisted now. Find an old Kane track prior to Long Live the Kane and see if you think he was spitting the same. Listen to the 1st PE album and see if they were spitting the same. Most emcees prior to Rakim patterned themselves after Run DMC. Listen to the 1st Geto Boys album and see how they changed after Paid In Full. It has nothing to do with reppin' 5 %. That wasn't what made all of them great, but it did add to their knowledge.

Same with Kool G RAP and a lot of dudes people now a days look at as Lyricist. Being in NY, you got to hear Juice Crew Songs around 84-86 and you got to hear a lot of MC's before they even had videos. They wasnt as Nice as they were After RAKIM came along.

Big Daddy Kane use to be Called Tony Kane back then. Same with KRS ONE. Try to find some KRS tracks before BDP (Cant remember but they were called the Dynamic Three or something like that)... KRS Style was like that Slow RUN DMC style back then too.

 

[J Storm]

i found this on Wikipiedia under Boogie Down Productions ( I was trying to find their original name) How many of yall heard of this?

As of 2007, KRS-One, D-Nice, and Willie D, who was the third member after 1988, met with Keith Murray. They arranged a reunion album scheduled for March 2007. D-Nice shockingly claims Rev Run will be an official member to the group. KRS-One's DJ, Jazzy Jay Kramer, will be replacing the late Scott La Rock and they announced ideas to be signed to Death Row East. The first single to the reunion, 3RD ROUND KNOCK-OUT, was written by Ice Cube and produced by Dr. Dre. It is unsure what the albums name will be although D-Nice suggests that it will be called "Ghetto Music 2", and Rev Run suggests that it will be called "The Boogie Down Productions LP". KRS-One said in an interview, they have shortened the name to simply "BDP". 3RD ROUND KNOCK-OUT is simply about taking on those who oppose the reunion with strong lyrics from all five members (not including JJ Kramer).

 

[Legacyns]

Bottom line of the thread was who was the better lyricist, not impact, not the better pioneer, lyric for lyric who was better and for the most part people are finding long ways to say Nas

But you gotta put it in context. You can't compare a regular TV ( in terms of technology ) from the 90s to a HD or Plasma TV today. And, you have to acknowledge that the latest TVs are advancement of the previous versions.

In other words, Nas is like Rakim v2.0

Lyrically, what you have to ask yourself is, how do Rakim's lyrics compare to lyrics at his time versus Nas as his time.

When I first heard Mahogany or I Ain't No Joke, lyrically, it was just as awesome & beyond it's time as "It Ain't Hard To Tell" or "The World Is Yours"..

I don't think it's fair to look at them lyric for lyric unless they're in their prime in the same era.

 

[Jagi]

K now we talking about changing the face of hip hop

lets not turn our pioneers into the same beef rappers of today with ego issues..

your talking about eras where each mc was a master of his own planet..

krs, rakim, kane, lyte, utlramagnetic mc's, kool g rap, chuck d, P.R.T., blackmoon and more if you break down that camp, etc name more theres a lot out there each held down their own style.. and fathered many styles

its not like today where you say the puffy/biggy/shiny suit era, or just down south era, or rappers from the moon era, or back pack rapper era.. each held down their own style and format.. thats why a top ten is always a heated debate..


the golden era and old school era was shared by all.. one held the radio, one the jeeps, one the project hallways, one the house parties, one the cyphers, one the jails, one the radical heads, one the immigrants etc.. and you could intertwine them..

lets not get into the who did more for hip hop argument.. cause its silly, each mentioned and more contributed equally in a way, including nwa and some unknowns or not as popular knowns like supernatural, craig g etc..


want to know what made hip hop that great really?

what i just said balance.. look at the nas remixes posted.. all those old school artists on one track and each one flowed/rapped about something different, it wasnt the same style, gun rap and adlibs with 50 mofos repeating themselves.. that would be an argument which copy cat bit hard enough to claim ruler

so rakim put as much as he could in the game as kane did as biggie did as pun did as even tag teams whoop there it is did..

i just hope all this love for icons and pioneers makes new and current mcs/rappers step their game up and try to be original and more different that each other.. no need for 6 motherfuckers on one track saying the same thing..

 

[Mello Mello]

Bottom line of the thread was who was the better lyricist, not impact, not the better pioneer, lyric for lyric who was better and for the most part people are finding long ways to say Nas

Thats kinda hard to do bruh. We gotta leave the elders alone. Rah was trying to change the game up and not bite from anyone style and keep taking it to the next level. He incorporated all these styles and rhythms and ideas of expression and just took it to that level man. The rhymes were witty and intelligent. Nas has picked up that same torch and IMPROVED upon that style for his era.

When Rakim drops his new album which should be out this year. We'll get a better comparison of the two and see how Rakim has grown over time.

 

[DJB10]

 

[DJB10]

when the hell did this happen?!?!?!!??!

 

[RIZZYEATSNANAS]

TOOK ME BAK WITH THE R GOOD DROP PLAYA

 

[hotair]

So now you sayin Kane got his style from Rakim..this is laughable now. So I guess KRS had no hand in cats stepping their lyrical game up either huh?

Re-read what I posted. I didn't say that Kane got his 'style' from Rakim, but he changed his style to reflect a more lyrically based flow. Rakim was the architect of that shift to lyricism. Big Daddy Kane, Grand Puba and all of those cats came after Rakim. Nobody was flowing like Rah before him. He set the stage. And yes, KRS wasn't as lyrical early on in his career. His first really lyrical album came with By All Means Necessary. Prior to that, KRS was a battle mc. Bottom line is that Rakim caused an entire shift towards well executed and thought out lyrics. You can call it laughable, but it would only be because you don't remember it.

 

[Spectrum]

Re-read what I posted. I didn't say that Kane got his 'style' from Rakim, but he changed his style to reflect a more lyrically based flow. Rakim was the architect of that shift to lyricism. Big Daddy Kane, Grand Puba and all of those cats came after Rakim. Nobody was flowing like Rah before him. He set the stage. And yes, KRS wasn't as lyrical early on in his career. His first really lyrical album came with By All Means Necessary. Prior to that, KRS was a battle mc. Bottom line is that Rakim caused an entire shift towards well executed and thought out lyrics. You can call it laughable, but it would only be because you don't remember it.

Same point I am trying to make to him. That multi-syllabic internal rhyme scheme lyricism DID NOT EXIST before Rakim. He ushered in a whole new flow to the game that all rappers have piggy-backed on...but none have done it better than Rakim.. just learned from his style.

 

[Jagi]

when the hell did this happen?!?!?!!??!

i think that was when he got picked up for something regarding child support or something like that

 

[hustleman08]

Rakim is def a legend, but word for word, in terms of raw lyrical ability, I'd have to go with:

 

[God-Of-War-420]

Personally Rakim

 

[Damn Right]

my thing with rakim he didnt evolve..would be nice to see if he did but he just an old school legend..

does a fine glass of cognac need to change to be 'better?' ra didn't need to change anything cause his style started at level 10. nas' earlier stuff straight sound like ra anyway.....that's why a lot of dudes gave him a hard time when he got on. listen to him today and it's just ra's style flipped a bit. ra hands down. no comparison.