Moderate/Blue Dog Democrats, Be On Notice, Constituents Are Talking Back

thoughtone

Rising Star
Registered
source: TPM

Some good news from Washington -- Max Baucus in Trouble with his Constituents over his Treatment of Single Payer Advocates!

June 1, 2009, 4:53PM

Five separate accounts of the meetings, published in four different local papers, show Montana voters were downright hostile to Baucus' reform proposal. Baucus has been a staunch opponent of single-payer health care, a system in which the government would provide universal coverage.

Baucus has kept single-payer advocates out of negotiations and has yet to endorse a compromise proposal by Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) that would give Americans the option of buying into a publicly run plan that would compete with private insurers.

That stance put his staffers up against a wall, facing angry constituents fed up by what they viewed as a lack of courage in Washington.
 
Baucus needs to go. He set up these town hall meetings to talk to his constituents about single-payer and didn't even show up. He sent a staffer with a video of Baucus instead. The staffer was supposed to collect info and turn it in. The fuck is that?

-VG
 
Baucus needs to go. He set up these town hall meetings to talk to his constituents about single-payer and didn't even show up. He sent a staffer with a video of Baucus instead. The staffer was supposed to collect info and turn it in. The fuck is that?

-VG

Senator Ben Nelson of Nebraska is catching hell for his intransigence on not allowing single payer option debate too.
 
Just for clarification, what is the problem with 'blue dog' Dems? From what I understand, in my limited comprehension, they try to be fiscally responsible, whats the problem with that?
 
Just for clarification, what is the problem with 'blue dog' Dems? From what I understand, in my limited comprehension, they try to be fiscally responsible, whats the problem with that?

They were real fiscally responsible during the Bush administration right? You’re exposing yourself even more Lamarr.
 
They were real fiscally responsible during the Bush administration right? You’re exposing yourself even more Lamarr.

I can't expose myself for asking a question, besides you know my feelings about both parties (they've all been bought & paid for by the Federal Reserve). Its true, I lean to the right a lil, but it's only on the premise that I don't believe in spending money that I don't have. Which I consider reasonable standard

Don't the political affiliations end when simple economics enter the debate? I mean, when the nation is in as much debt as we are, Isn't it logical to govern in a more fiscally reponsible manner?
 
I can't expose myself for asking a question, besides you know my feelings about both parties (they've all been bought & paid for by the Federal Reserve). Its true, I lean to the right a lil, but it's only on the premise that I don't believe in spending money that I don't have. Which I consider reasonable standard

Don't the political affiliations end when simple economics enter the debate? I mean, when the nation is in as much debt as we are, Isn't it logical to govern in a more fiscally reponsible manner?

Remember, we accrued a $10 trillion debt under GW. The 'blue dog' Dems were there voting along with the conservatives. They need to be taken to task. The key to saving money and building a new economy is change and the 'blue dog' Dems are a major impediment. And moderates don’t get anything changed, the just go along to get along.
 
Remember, we accrued a $10 trillion debt under GW.

Nothin "conservative" about that feat! :smh:

The key to saving money and building a new economy is change and the 'blue dog' Dems are a major impediment.

Not to sound sarcastic but the key to saving money is not to spend any. :yes:

Honestly, I could care less about Blue Dogs, Repubs, Dems, I'd just like to see anyone with some principles and a basic understanding of Economics. So thats why you'll see me applaud Bernie Sanders when he speaks out against the Fed, or Kucinich, when he introduced 37 Articles of impeachment against the 'most impeachable' Pres. in history (too bad he didn't get any support from the Dems) or Ron Paul, when he advocates bringing the troops home immediately from these Wars, that are breaking us as a nation.

Enter my world Thought, Bankers want people in debt! The more debt the people or the Nation are in, the more control Bankers have over society. DC has been taken over by the Banks.
 
*sigh* Where's the diversity?

*not going to comment on the "bush gave us a 10 trillion dollar deficit*....BTW, didn't Obama sign a stimulus bill earlier this year? Oh yea.....that was Bush fault too!!!! Bush made Obama sign that stimulus bill, made Obama bailout the banks, and take over the GM.
 
*sigh* Where's the diversity?

*not going to comment on the "bush gave us a 10 trillion dollar deficit*....BTW, didn't Obama sign a stimulus bill earlier this year? Oh yea.....that was Bush fault too!!!! Bush made Obama sign that stimulus bill, made Obama bailout the banks, and take over the GM.

What kind of idiotic shit is this?

I was commenting on the treatment of Clarance Thomas by the Democrats. The point is that both sides do it. So why is it EXTRA harmful when republicans do it?

So you mean to tell me that they didn't try to destroy Bristol Palin? Really?

I guess the hit pieces on Palin during the election was all made up. Don't let me get on the treatment of McCain. All I want from everyone is CONSISTENCY!!!!! If I had my way, we would stick to the issues. Something many on the left cannot/will not do.

Just to remind you, the real issue about Sotomayor is her comment about making policy from the bench. That's the main issue republicans need to stay with.

So you mean to tell me that they didn't try to destroy Bristol Palin?

No they didn’t. All they did was state that if Sasha or Malia had gotten pregnant out of wedlock the republicans/right wingers would have been working overtime to rip them apart and labeling them morally corrupt and what bad examples Barack and Michelle are of parents. You know that is true, you would have been among the most vocal to post snide comments about this! The fact that you claim that someone is trying to “destroy” Bristol for even broaching the topic displays YOUR hypocrisy! And most of the comments about Bristol were about the rights hypocrisy about abstinence as a method of birth control. If the conservative base of the Republican Party’s choice for president’s daughter failed at it, then you know it’s a failed policy. In other words, the GOP wants to preach that other people, whose children have gotten pregnant out of wedlock are morally lacking and promiscuous if they have sex outside of marriage, but if a republican/right winger’s child does it, don’t judge them, this is a family matter, off limits. This sums up the hypocrisy of most everything about the current Republican Party in a nut shell!

...and don’t get me started about the Mary Cheney hypocrisy.

Just to remind you, the real issue about Sotomayor is her comment about making policy from the bench. That's the main issue republicans need to stay with.

See, this is why I don’t respond when you post shit. Your knowledge base is nothing more than right wing talk radio, right wing web sites and Faux Snooze. It wouldn’t be so bad, but you don’t even think about what they are spewing. Here is a challenge, you wrote that Sotomayor was “making policy from the bench.” List a specific example. I know this has been the next talking point the RNC has distributed to their lemmings. Let’s see if you care to accept their sound byte blindly and if you are intellectually deep enough to make your own decision on her. I will be waiting for an answer, for a long time no doubt.

Here is a challenge, you wrote that Sotomayor was “making policy from the bench.” List a specific example. I know this has been the next talking point the RNC has distributed to their lemmings. Let’s see if you care to accept their sound byte blindly and if you are intellectually deep enough to make your own decision on her. I will be waiting for an answer, for a long time no doubt.

You are so irrelevant!
 
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source: Huffington Post

Max Baucus Backs Off Claim He's "Fighting Tooth And Nail" For Public Health Care Option

Max Baucus is "fighting tooth and nail" to make sure a public health care option is included in the final overhaul package that goes through the Senate, his chief of staff, John Selib, told a Montana town hall during last week's recess.

Baucus himself, however, has never gone that far, simply saying that a public insurance option that any American could buy into is "on the table."

The Senate is now back in session. We caught up with Baucus, the Democratic chair of the Finance Committee and the lead health care negotiator, and asked him if Selib had characterized his support of a public option accurately.

"Public option, in all its variations, is very much on the table," replied Baucus.

Yeah, but are you fighting tooth and nail for it?

"Public option, in all it's variations, is on the table and I'll fight tooth and nail," he said, then paused and added, "for a version that works, if we can get it passed."


Baucus scheduled 20 health care town halls last week in Montana, where his constituents came out overwhelmingly in favor of single-payer health care or a more aggressive public role, battering Baucus for not going far enough.

Baucus himself, however, was not at any of the meetings and sent a staffer and a video recording instead.


"I had personal commitments," Baucus explained to the Huffington Post, just before boarding a bus headed down Pennsylvania Avenue to the White House. :lol:

The pressure appears to be having some effect, however small. On Wednesday, Baucus will meet with advocates of universal, single-payer health care. So far, he has said that single-payer is off the table and has refused to allow its advocates to sit in negotiations. And, in fact, they've been arrested for trying.

Baucus will hear from Sen. Bernie Sanders:yes:, an independent from Vermont and the lone sponsor of a single-payer bill, as well as several advocates: Dr. Marcia Angell, former editor-in-chief of the New England Journal of Medicine and a senior lecturer at Harvard; Rose Ann DeMoro, executive director of the California Nurses Association/National Nurses Organizing Committee and national vice president of the AFL-CIO; Geri Jenkins, a nurse and co-president of the California Nurses Association/National Nurses Organizing Committee and practicing registered nurse; and Dr. Oliver Fein, president of Physicians for a National Health Program and associate dean at Weill Medical College of Cornell University.

"I'm meeting some advocates tomorrow. I'll listen to anybody--their views, what they think, why they think that's important. We'll just talk about that," Baucus said.

While Baucus has been reluctant to meet with advocates of a single-payer system, he's been keen to include the GOP in negotiations:smh:, and said he hopes that the president pushes the party to continue to do so.

"I hope [Obama] tells us it has to be bipartisan. I think it has to be bipartisan, if it's sustainable and meaningful," he said.:lol:
 
No they didn’t. All they did was state that if Sasha or Malia had gotten pregnant out of wedlock the republicans/right wingers would have been working overtime to rip them apart and labeling them morally corrupt and what bad examples Barack and Michelle are of parents. You know that is true, you would have been among the most vocal to post snide comments about this! The fact that you claim that someone is trying to “destroy” Bristol for even broaching the topic displays YOUR hypocrisy! And most of the comments about Bristol were about the rights hypocrisy about abstinence as a method of birth control. If the conservative base of the Republican Party’s choice for president’s daughter failed at it, then you know it’s a failed policy. In other words, the GOP wants to preach that other people, whose children have gotten pregnant out of wedlock are morally lacking and promiscuous if they have sex outside of marriage, but if a republican/right winger’s child does it, don’t judge them, this is a family matter, off limits. This sums up the hypocrisy of most everything about the current Republican Party in a nut shell!

...and don’t get me started about the Mary Cheney hypocrisy.



See, this is why I don’t respond when you post shit. Your knowledge base is nothing more than right wing talk radio, right wing web sites and Faux Snooze. It wouldn’t be so bad, but you don’t even think about what they are spewing. Here is a challenge, you wrote that Sotomayor was “making policy from the bench.” List a specific example. I know this has been the next talking point the RNC has distributed to their lemmings. Let’s see if you care to accept their sound byte blindly and if you are intellectually deep enough to make your own decision on her. I will be waiting for an answer, for a long time no doubt.

Here is a challenge, you wrote that Sotomayor was “making policy from the bench.” List a specific example. I know this has been the next talking point the RNC has distributed to their lemmings. Let’s see if you care to accept their sound byte blindly and if you are intellectually deep enough to make your own decision on her. I will be waiting for an answer, for a long time no doubt.

You are so irrelevant!

The question was never about her record, its about what she stated. BTW, I'm more on board with this pick than you think. Why you think I haven't followed the "she is racist" theme? Of all things, you might need to check on her abortion stance. BTW, I really don't care if Sotomayor gets in, or not.

So, its ok if you repeat what the left is saying then? Look at it like this thought, you choose to support who you support. You post articles that reflect your beliefs. I don't have any problems over YOUR beliefs. Yet, when I speak my mind over my beliefs, there's a problem. I'm all of a sudden following the extreme right, ect, ect. Don't you suppose to be tolerant to other people's beliefs?

BTW, if I'm irrelevant, then why you cut in on any debates I'm having with people like Que, or Ewwlll? Please stay consistent mayne...

*edit* I don't remember anybody I listen to *ie Mark Davis, and Rush* talking about Obama's kids. The only thing I heard remotely was when Obama said he wouldn't want his kids to have the responsibility of a child as teenager *I believe he was talking about abortion when he brought that up*. Other than that, I don't recall anything brought up about his kids.
 
The question was never about her record, its about what she stated. BTW, I'm more on board with this pick than you think. Why you think I haven't followed the "she is racist" theme? Of all things, you might need to check on her abortion stance. BTW, I really don't care if Sotomayor gets in, or not.

So, its ok if you repeat what the left is saying then? Look at it like this thought, you choose to support who you support. You post articles that reflect your beliefs. I don't have any problems over YOUR beliefs. Yet, when I speak my mind over my beliefs, there's a problem. I'm all of a sudden following the extreme right, ect, ect. Don't you suppose to be tolerant to other people's beliefs?

BTW, if I'm irrelevant, then why you cut in on any debates I'm having with people like Que, or Ewwlll? Please stay consistent mayne...

*edit* I don't remember anybody I listen to *ie Mark Davis, and Rush* talking about Obama's kids. The only thing I heard remotely was when Obama said he wouldn't want his kids to have the responsibility of a child as teenager *I believe he was talking about abortion when he brought that up*. Other than that, I don't recall anything brought up about his kids.

What did she state? I'll keep trying.
 
source: TPM

Sotomayor Was Right: Appellate Judges Do "Make Policy"

By Eric Muller - June 1, 2009, 10:37AM

At Duke Law School back in 2005, Judge Sonia Sotomayor said that "the court of appeals is where policy is made." Conservative pundits have immediately jumped on these words as proof that Judge Sotomayor is an "activist" who will legislate her own preferences on us all from the Supreme Court bench.

This is nonsense. Appellate judges do "make policy," and it's an uncontroversial and even necessary piece of their job description.

She uttered these words during a panel discussion for the benefit of Duke law students, many of them aspiring law clerks to judges around the country. One such student asked her how trial courts are different from appellate courts. Judge Sotomayor replied that whereas trial courts are concerned with the specific facts of the cases before them, appellate courts are "where policy is made."

A layman might think the word "policy" here means something like "whether it would be a good idea for the federal government to fund abortions for poor women" - something that our elected representatives are supposed to decide.

But lawyers (and law students ) know that "policy" can also be a way of summing up a practical and unremarkable difference between trial and appellate courts.

The federal courts of appeals are, in practical terms, our courts of last resort. The Supreme Court gets to choose its cases, and chooses only around eighty each year from the thousands presented to them. What this means is that once a federal appellate court decides a case, it's over. Sure, there's a remote chance that the Supreme Court will decide to hear it, but you'd probably have better luck buying a lottery ticket.

This gives our federal appellate courts a special responsibility. They're the ones who have to keep the law orderly. Unlike trial courts, whose decisions other courts are not required to follow, federal appellate courts control the law in a whole region of the country. When Judge Sotomayor's Second Circuit Court of Appeals speaks on a point of law, it becomes the rule throughout New York, Connecticut, and Vermont.

That's some populous terrain, with a lot of federal trial judges. And they can be an unruly bunch. Often their decisions - on all manner of things, including arcane stuff like the rules of evidence and the rules of court procedure - conflict with one another. It is the responsibility of appellate courts to bring order to that chaos - to make sure that the trial courts aren't getting too far out of line. To do this, they can't just think about the specific facts in the case before them. They have to reflect on what the consequences will be in other cases and other contexts. They have to think about how hard or easy a rule will be to apply. They have to make a rule that will apply generally, not a rule just for one case.

In other words, they "make policy." It's not the sort of policy that Congress makes. But it's policy.


The Duke law students tittered when Judge Sotomayor claimed a "policy"-making role for appellate judges with the cameras rolling. They surely knew how easy it would be for unfair or uninformed observers outside the walls of a law school to jump to a wrong and embarrassing meaning.

It turns out their nervous laughter was well-founded; that is just what unfair and uninformed observers are now doing.

But what Judge Sotamayor said to those law students was absolutely right. Appellate judges make policy. And they do so without stepping on Congress's toes, or ours.


**
Eric Muller is the Dan K. Moore Distinguished Professor in Jurisprudence and Ethics at the University of North Carolina School of Law.
 
source: TPM

Sotomayor Was Right: Appellate Judges Do "Make Policy"

By Eric Muller - June 1, 2009, 10:37AM

At Duke Law School back in 2005, Judge Sonia Sotomayor said that "the court of appeals is where policy is made." Conservative pundits have immediately jumped on these words as proof that Judge Sotomayor is an "activist" who will legislate her own preferences on us all from the Supreme Court bench.

This is nonsense. Appellate judges do "make policy," and it's an uncontroversial and even necessary piece of their job description.

She uttered these words during a panel discussion for the benefit of Duke law students, many of them aspiring law clerks to judges around the country. One such student asked her how trial courts are different from appellate courts. Judge Sotomayor replied that whereas trial courts are concerned with the specific facts of the cases before them, appellate courts are "where policy is made."

A layman might think the word "policy" here means something like "whether it would be a good idea for the federal government to fund abortions for poor women" - something that our elected representatives are supposed to decide.

But lawyers (and law students ) know that "policy" can also be a way of summing up a practical and unremarkable difference between trial and appellate courts.

The federal courts of appeals are, in practical terms, our courts of last resort. The Supreme Court gets to choose its cases, and chooses only around eighty each year from the thousands presented to them. What this means is that once a federal appellate court decides a case, it's over. Sure, there's a remote chance that the Supreme Court will decide to hear it, but you'd probably have better luck buying a lottery ticket.

This gives our federal appellate courts a special responsibility. They're the ones who have to keep the law orderly. Unlike trial courts, whose decisions other courts are not required to follow, federal appellate courts control the law in a whole region of the country. When Judge Sotomayor's Second Circuit Court of Appeals speaks on a point of law, it becomes the rule throughout New York, Connecticut, and Vermont.

That's some populous terrain, with a lot of federal trial judges. And they can be an unruly bunch. Often their decisions - on all manner of things, including arcane stuff like the rules of evidence and the rules of court procedure - conflict with one another. It is the responsibility of appellate courts to bring order to that chaos - to make sure that the trial courts aren't getting too far out of line. To do this, they can't just think about the specific facts in the case before them. They have to reflect on what the consequences will be in other cases and other contexts. They have to think about how hard or easy a rule will be to apply. They have to make a rule that will apply generally, not a rule just for one case.

In other words, they "make policy." It's not the sort of policy that Congress makes. But it's policy.


The Duke law students tittered when Judge Sotomayor claimed a "policy"-making role for appellate judges with the cameras rolling. They surely knew how easy it would be for unfair or uninformed observers outside the walls of a law school to jump to a wrong and embarrassing meaning.

It turns out their nervous laughter was well-founded; that is just what unfair and uninformed observers are now doing.

But what Judge Sotamayor said to those law students was absolutely right. Appellate judges make policy. And they do so without stepping on Congress's toes, or ours.


**
Eric Muller is the Dan K. Moore Distinguished Professor in Jurisprudence and Ethics at the University of North Carolina School of Law.

If she goes with what you just posted, even some democrats would look at her funny.
 
Remember, we accrued a $10 trillion debt under GW. The 'blue dog' Dems were there voting along with the conservatives. They need to be taken to task. The key to saving money and building a new economy is change and the 'blue dog' Dems are a major impediment. And moderates don’t get anything changed, the just go along to get along.

Show us the stat that we accrued a 10 trillion debt under GW. At most he ran it up to 480 which was awful but never 10 trillion. Stop pulling numbers out of the air. The deficit will be upwards toward 10 trillion under your lord and savior. No president has had a deficit over 1 trillion. Not even Carter with his double digit interest rates.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_L6pDyjqqsvY/SfdC5lACBUI/AAAAAAAAbUw/aiQOas2Zo9E/s1600-h/obama+deficit.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_L6pDyjqqsvY/SajVSJ4Jm3I/AAAAAAAAaSg/8tXpE-AGV-E/s1600-h/bush+budget.JPG
 
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Show us the stat that we accrued a 10 trillion debt under GW. At most he ran it up to 480 which was awful but never 10 trillion. Stop pulling numbers out of the air. The deficit will be upwards toward 10 trillion under your lord and savior. No president has had a deficit over 1 trillion. Not even Carter with his double digit interest rates.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_L6pDyjqqsvY/SfdC5lACBUI/AAAAAAAAbUw/aiQOas2Zo9E/s1600-h/obama+deficit.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_L6pDyjqqsvY/SajVSJ4Jm3I/AAAAAAAAaSg/8tXpE-AGV-E/s1600-h/bush+budget.JPG

source: whitehouse.gov

<iframe src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/3b/USDebt.png/514px-USDebt.png" width=800 height=1000></iframe>​

source: zfacts.com

National-Debt-GDP-L.gif

<!-- start zFacts Debt Gizmo -->
<table id="zDebtBox">
<tr><td><script type="text/javascript" src="http://www.zfacts.com/giz/G05/debt.js"></script></td></tr>
<tr><td><a href="http://zfacts.com/p/461.html" id='zF05' style="color:black;font-size:12px">The Gross National Debt</a></td></tr>
</table>
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http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np
 
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What are you trying to pull?? If I am wrong please correct me, but that first chart cannot be found nowhere in your first source. Second of all you libs give clinton to much credit for his surplus. He had a republican congress majority in the house and senate. My chart stated this already. Congress holds the purse strings. Its funny how your source stopped the Graph at Obama's numbers. I would love to see his projections. Tell me this how will all of this massive spending lower the nations deficit. What is it that the CHILDREN OF CHINA know that our own treasury secretary doesn't know? They are not as gullible as the average American voter. They are selling long term bonds and buying short term are you blind?
 
What are you trying to pull?? If I am wrong please correct me, but that first chart cannot be found nowhere in your first source. Second of all you libs give clinton to much credit for his surplus. He had a republican congress majority in the house and senate. My chart stated this already. Congress holds the purse strings. Its funny how your source stopped the Graph at Obama's numbers. I would love to see his projections. Tell me this how will all of this massive spending lower the nations deficit. What is it that the CHILDREN OF CHINA know that our own treasury secretary doesn't know? They are not as gullible as the average American voter. They are selling long term bonds and buying short term are you blind?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

btw, the Iraqi situation has not been added to the debt. The true costs are always in supplementary funding that the true figures are not known to the general public. Kind of like the Defense Department’s “Black” budget.

Forgive me, I thought you could extrapolate numbers better, but knowing your slant I should have known. You put more faith on a blog, which doesn’t sight its sources, but you question the government’s data.:hmm:
 
Thought, it just occured to me. Are you advocating the "BlueDogs" spend MORE than they did with Bush? So the problem is that Bush didn't spend enough? Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

btw, the Iraqi situation has not been added to the debt. The true costs are always in supplementary funding that the true figures are not known to the general public. Kind of like the Defense Department’s “Black” budget.

Forgive me, I thought you could extrapolate numbers better, but knowing your slant I should have known. You put more faith on a blog, which doesn’t sight its sources, but you question the government’s data.:hmm:

Here we go again. With all due respect Thought you are the last person I would think on this board would rely on government data. You question everything about this country as if it's the worst since creation. You favorite source huffington post is a blog as well. I'm pretty sure you haven't even read that governent post. Of course a liberal as yourself world be familiar with add on's to bills like the stimulus bill that has failed to stimulate anything. So now you don't like blogs. I guess the next time you cite a newspaper article should we rely on your post sources. I would rely on blogs before I would rely on liberal media. I ( Thought ) the truth mattered. Dude I worked for my state's legislative black caucus you can't out bulls$$$ a Bull$$$$$er. I have to admit I like your passion but everyone is entitled to their opinion but everyone is not entitled to their own facts. Oh my god I forgot to cite that quote. Ques gonna cane me!!!!!
 
Here we go again. With all due respect Thought you are the last person I would think on this board would rely on government data. You question everything about this country as if it's the worst since creation. You favorite source huffington post is a blog as well. I'm pretty sure you haven't even read that governent post. Of course a liberal as yourself world be familiar with add on's to bills like the stimulus bill that has failed to stimulate anything. So now you don't like blogs. I guess the next time you cite a newspaper article should we rely on your post sources. I would rely on blogs before I would rely on liberal media. I ( Thought ) the truth mattered. Dude I worked for my state's legislative black caucus you can't out bulls$$$ a Bull$$$$$er. I have to admit I like your passion but everyone is entitled to their opinion but everyone is not entitled to their own facts. Oh my god I forgot to cite that quote. Ques gonna cane me!!!!!

dude, thought is the least consistent person on this board....
 
<font size="5"><center>
Health care debate exposes
regional rift for Democrats</font size></center>




McClatchy Newspapers
By David Lightman
and William Douglas
August 31, 2009

WASHINGTON — Congress' efforts to overhaul the nation's health care system are plagued by an age-old urban-rural, east and west coast vs. the heartland schism in the Democratic Party.


<font size="3">California Democrat</font size>

The divide is constantly evident. Last week, for instance, Rep. Pete Stark, D-Calif., chairman of the House Ways and Means Health Subcommittee, offered a glimpse of the tension when asked about health care co-ops.

"Well, the only co-op I know about is when I used to milk cows and we sold the milk to Golden Guernsey. And I think there's only one co-op left," said Stark, who considers the co-op idea a non-starter. "There aren't many of you listening who remember the co-ops of the '30s, which was a — just kind of a Roosevelt outgrowth of rural electric co-ops, phone co-ops."


<font size="3">Louisiana Democrat</font size>

The same day, Rep. Charlie Melancon, D-La., a leader of the conservative House of Representatives Democratic Blue Dog Coalition, announced he was running for the U.S. Senate.

He promised a "more bipartisan, more disciplined" approach, and touted himself as a "pro-life, pro-gun Southern Democrat."


<font size="3">Typical of Party Division</font size>

Stark and Melancon are typical of the party's division. "The two sides don't understand each other. They're reading from different scripts," said Steven Schier, professor of political science at Carleton College in Northfield, Minn.

Not everyone agreed that the differences would stymie health care this year. Ron Pollack, the executive director of Families USA, a consumer health organization, noted that lawmakers agree on many major health care changes.


<font size="3">Divisions Crucial</font size>

The divisions, however, already have affected the issue that appears likely to make or break the progress of health care changes — whether to adopt a "public option" insurance choice or endorse creation of co-ops to help make the health care system more efficient.

The co-ops would be non-profit organizations that would run themselves. Members and an elected board would make decisions about premiums, benefits, deductibles and co-pays.

While the details of how they'd work remain sketchy, under consideration is a plan that would have co-ops contract directly with health care providers. They could negotiate rates with a network of approved physicians and hospitals. Some cooperatives would have their own doctors as well as hospitals.

"People here understand the public option, but they don't really know what co-ops are," said Gary Rose, a government and politics professor at Sacred Heart University in Fairfield, Conn.

The co-op idea is getting serious consideration from negotiators at the Senate Finance Committee, all of whom come from smaller, less urban states. The chief backer is Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D.

"It has appeal on both sides," he said. "It's the only proposal that has bipartisan support."

The idea of co-ops has been met by derision and outright hostility in Congress, however.

"It's a way to avoid and a way to silence what I consider to be a pretty strong drumbeat for a public option in the country," said Rep. Raul Grijalva, D-Ariz.

The public option idea has been endorsed by Democrats on committees led by Reps. Henry Waxman of Los Angeles, George Miller, who represents the San Francisco Bay area, and Christopher Dodd, a Connecticut senator.

Generally, their plans would have consumers shop for coverage, and be able to compare private and public plans. Total cost of legislation endorsed by three House committees and Dodd's panel is estimated at about $1 trillion. The panels hope to offset the costs by implementing cost savings and increasing some taxes.


<font size="3">Blue Dog Opposition</font size>

The small-town Democrats, however, worry about the cost and the government's reach. The 52 members of the House's conservative Blue Dog Coalition have threatened to derail any plan with a public option unless costs are reined in.

Last month, five Democrats on the House Energy and Commerce Committee, including Melancon, opposed the leadership's overhaul bill, saying he feared it would wound the private sector and help encourage publicly funded abortions.

Waxman insisted the 31 Democrats voting for the bill represented a broad coalition of "conservative, moderate and progressive Democrats." Passage came only after four conservative Democrats won changes in the bill they considered more fiscally responsible.

"We came to the table wanting to squeeze out costs," said Rep. Mike Ross, D-Ark.

However, the conservatives realize that more may have to be squeeze out to win eventual congressional approval, which is why many embrace the idea of co-ops.

Conrad's plan would have Washington "guide the creation of co-ops by setting standards and providing the seed money," though just how much is unclear.

To a lot of urban lawmakers and their constituents, the co-op concept is foreign.

"I don't think cities understand co-ops as well as rural areas and the South where cooperatives are prevalent," said Donna Christensen, a Democratic delegate from the U.S. Virgin Islands and a physician.

A lot of analysts think these differences can be resolved. The political problem isn't among Democrats, said Eric Davis, a political science professor emeritus at Vermont's Middlebury College.

"Co-ops aren't an option because Republicans will never approve it and Democrats may hold their nose and support it, though they would prefer a public option," he said.

Pollack added "there's a good case to be made" that the regional differences are slight. Lawmakers have agreed to many changes in health care — Dodd estimates there is agreement on about 80 percent of the proposals.

It's that other 20 percent that's proving problematic, however, and much will depend on whether the warring sides of the party can come together.

"There are three political parties in this country — Republicans, Southern Democrats and the rest of the Democrats," said Thomas Whelan, associate professor of social science at Boston University. "And the Southern Democrats are always in play. They have enough people that they have leverage."


http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/74635.html
 
<font size="5"><center>
Health care debate exposes
regional rift for Democrats</font size></center>




McClatchy Newspapers
By David Lightman
and William Douglas
August 31, 2009

WASHINGTON — Congress' efforts to overhaul the nation's health care system are plagued by an age-old urban-rural, east and west coast vs. the heartland schism in the Democratic Party.


<font size="3">California Democrat</font size>

The divide is constantly evident. Last week, for instance, Rep. Pete Stark, D-Calif., chairman of the House Ways and Means Health Subcommittee, offered a glimpse of the tension when asked about health care co-ops.

"Well, the only co-op I know about is when I used to milk cows and we sold the milk to Golden Guernsey. And I think there's only one co-op left," said Stark, who considers the co-op idea a non-starter. "There aren't many of you listening who remember the co-ops of the '30s, which was a — just kind of a Roosevelt outgrowth of rural electric co-ops, phone co-ops."


<font size="3">Louisiana Democrat</font size>

The same day, Rep. Charlie Melancon, D-La., a leader of the conservative House of Representatives Democratic Blue Dog Coalition, announced he was running for the U.S. Senate.

He promised a "more bipartisan, more disciplined" approach, and touted himself as a "pro-life, pro-gun Southern Democrat."


<font size="3">Typical of Party Division</font size>

Stark and Melancon are typical of the party's division. "The two sides don't understand each other. They're reading from different scripts," said Steven Schier, professor of political science at Carleton College in Northfield, Minn.

Not everyone agreed that the differences would stymie health care this year. Ron Pollack, the executive director of Families USA, a consumer health organization, noted that lawmakers agree on many major health care changes.


<font size="3">Divisions Crucial</font size>

The divisions, however, already have affected the issue that appears likely to make or break the progress of health care changes — whether to adopt a "public option" insurance choice or endorse creation of co-ops to help make the health care system more efficient.

The co-ops would be non-profit organizations that would run themselves. Members and an elected board would make decisions about premiums, benefits, deductibles and co-pays.

While the details of how they'd work remain sketchy, under consideration is a plan that would have co-ops contract directly with health care providers. They could negotiate rates with a network of approved physicians and hospitals. Some cooperatives would have their own doctors as well as hospitals.

"People here understand the public option, but they don't really know what co-ops are," said Gary Rose, a government and politics professor at Sacred Heart University in Fairfield, Conn.

The co-op idea is getting serious consideration from negotiators at the Senate Finance Committee, all of whom come from smaller, less urban states. The chief backer is Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D.

"It has appeal on both sides," he said. "It's the only proposal that has bipartisan support."

The idea of co-ops has been met by derision and outright hostility in Congress, however.

"It's a way to avoid and a way to silence what I consider to be a pretty strong drumbeat for a public option in the country," said Rep. Raul Grijalva, D-Ariz.

The public option idea has been endorsed by Democrats on committees led by Reps. Henry Waxman of Los Angeles, George Miller, who represents the San Francisco Bay area, and Christopher Dodd, a Connecticut senator.

Generally, their plans would have consumers shop for coverage, and be able to compare private and public plans. Total cost of legislation endorsed by three House committees and Dodd's panel is estimated at about $1 trillion. The panels hope to offset the costs by implementing cost savings and increasing some taxes.


<font size="3">Blue Dog Opposition</font size>

The small-town Democrats, however, worry about the cost and the government's reach. The 52 members of the House's conservative Blue Dog Coalition have threatened to derail any plan with a public option unless costs are reined in.

Last month, five Democrats on the House Energy and Commerce Committee, including Melancon, opposed the leadership's overhaul bill, saying he feared it would wound the private sector and help encourage publicly funded abortions.

Waxman insisted the 31 Democrats voting for the bill represented a broad coalition of "conservative, moderate and progressive Democrats." Passage came only after four conservative Democrats won changes in the bill they considered more fiscally responsible.

"We came to the table wanting to squeeze out costs," said Rep. Mike Ross, D-Ark.

However, the conservatives realize that more may have to be squeeze out to win eventual congressional approval, which is why many embrace the idea of co-ops.

Conrad's plan would have Washington "guide the creation of co-ops by setting standards and providing the seed money," though just how much is unclear.

To a lot of urban lawmakers and their constituents, the co-op concept is foreign.

"I don't think cities understand co-ops as well as rural areas and the South where cooperatives are prevalent," said Donna Christensen, a Democratic delegate from the U.S. Virgin Islands and a physician.

A lot of analysts think these differences can be resolved. The political problem isn't among Democrats, said Eric Davis, a political science professor emeritus at Vermont's Middlebury College.

"Co-ops aren't an option because Republicans will never approve it and Democrats may hold their nose and support it, though they would prefer a public option," he said.

Pollack added "there's a good case to be made" that the regional differences are slight. Lawmakers have agreed to many changes in health care — Dodd estimates there is agreement on about 80 percent of the proposals.

It's that other 20 percent that's proving problematic, however, and much will depend on whether the warring sides of the party can come together.

"There are three political parties in this country — Republicans, Southern Democrats and the rest of the Democrats," said Thomas Whelan, associate professor of social science at Boston University. "And the Southern Democrats are always in play. They have enough people that they have leverage."


http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/74635.html

wow, an objective article posted by the great Que *minus the thought since he just killed Thought's argument*. See, we are actually getting some where.

BTW, I love the fact that Thought has been trying to bait me into calling him what I think he is. Thanks for noticing all of that too. *thus, why you probably haven't banned me for retaliating at Thought*
 
<font size="5"><center>
Moderate Democrats hold health bill's
fate in their hands</font size></center>



23web-Health_Care_Insurance.major_story_img.prod_affiliate.91.jpg

Protestors rally in support of health care insurance reform.


McClatchy Newspapers
By David Lightman
October 23, 2009


WASHINGTON -- A handful of moderate Senate Democrats will determine the fate of this year's health care overhaul, and they're sending strong signals that while they're willing to compromise, they're wary of a strong public option.

"I've ruled out a government-funded and a government-operated plan," said Sen. Blanche Lincoln, D-Ark., who faces a tough re-election fight next year. Added Sen. Mary Landrieu, D-La. "I don't believe Americans want a (new) government-run health care system."

Democrats control 60 of the 100 Senate seats, enough to overcome procedural hurdles if they stick together. But they've been struggling to find consensus, because moderate senators, most from the South and Midwest, hear lots of skepticism from the folks back home.

The informal centrist roster includes senators who have broken with the party the most this year -- Indiana's Evan Bayh and Nebraska's Ben Nelson -- as well as Tom Carper of Delaware, Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut (an independent who caucuses with the Democrats), Mark Pryor of Arkansas, Mark Warner and Jim Webb of Virginia, Jon Tester of Montana and Kent Conrad and Byron Dorgan of North Dakota.

Nelson and Sen. Olympia Snowe of Maine, the lone Republican to vote for a Democratic-authored health care plan in the Senate Finance Committee earlier this month, hosted meetings Tuesday and Thursday with a small group of moderates, including Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine. Some centrists have had lengthy, private meetings with President Barack Obama at the White House.

Their chief messages: Constituents are confused and wary of changes to the nation's health care system, and if a plan is perceived as too expensive and complex, there could be political consequences.

"We need to make constituents understand what we're doing. We need a tutorial," said Snowe.

The moderates, though, are up against powerful political forces. Democratic leaders in the House of Representatives have pledged to include a strong public option in their bill, which is expected to be debated next month. In the Senate, Health Committee Chairman Tom Harkin, D-Iowa, estimates that a strong public option has at least 52 Democratic votes.

Leaders talk of pushing a public option that would allow states to "opt out," but that's not generating enthusiasm among the moderates.

Polls illustrate why both the leaders and the skeptics think their positions are strong. A Pew Research Center survey conducted Sept. 30 to Oct. 4 found 55 percent of respondents preferred a government-run plan.

But the poll also found 47 percent opposed to health care proposals being discussed in Congress, compared to 34 percent supporting them.

People like the concept of a public option but are more tentative about details of a comprehensive package -- especially one they don't yet know, said Carroll Doherty, the poll's associate director.

In states where voters are more conservative, health care change is emblematic of something bigger, something analysts say could hurt those states' Democrats in next year's mid-term congressional elections. Thirty-eight Senate seats are up next year; each party now holds 19 of those.

In more conservative areas, "the mood we're seeing out there is not just being driven by health care, though health care may be the tipping point," said Jennifer Duffy, senior editor for the Cook Political Report. "People are unhappy about deficits, bailouts, and just see too much government."

The Arkansas Poll this week made that point. Of 381 adults it surveyed in that state, 43 percent said that if the health care system changes, the quality of care would get worse, while 15 percent said it would improve. Thirty-one percent said it would stay the same.

Asked if they backed a government-run plan to compete with the private sector, 40 percent said yes while 45 percent said no.

"Arkansans remain unsold on the need for change," said poll director Janine Parry. And Sen. Lincoln, up for re-election next year, will be running in a state where Obama won only 38.8 percent of the 2008 vote.

Voters also see the federal deficit, which hit a record $1.4 trillion in fiscal 2009, as a symptom of out-of-control government. That concern was apparent this week when 12 Democrats and Lieberman defied the party line and voted against cutting off debate on a plan to stabilize Medicare doctors' fees.

The $247 billion, 10-year proposal would have increased the deficit, and moderates rebelled. The cost "is not an insignificant amount of money, and the Senate should be up front about the true costs of health care reform," said Dorgan, who faces re-election next year.

Where, these moderates ask, will Washington find the money to fund health care? The Senate Finance version is estimated to cost $829 billion, and part of the cost would come from taxing high-end insurance policies, a tax that Nelson found his constituents fear will be passed on to them.

"One question that keeps getting asked by constituents is, 'If you're going to tax insurers, won't that add to our costs?'" he asked.

Despite all the anguish, the moderates won't rule out some sort of compromise; after all, they note, health care legislation is likely to be so all-inclusive that no one will be completely satisfied.

Conrad suggests that he could entertain a public option if the new plan would allow health care providers to negotiate rates, rather than rely on Medicare, whose reimbursement levels, he says, hurt his state. Bayh, who is up for re-election next year, said after meeting with Obama recently that "the primary focus for moderates is getting costs under control for middle-class families and small businesses, and passing fiscally responsible reform that reduces the federal deficit over time."

So far, though, common ground has been hard to find.

In the House, 52 members of the Blue Dog Coalition, a group of conservative Democrats, have reservations similar to those of moderate senators. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., has been negotiating with top Democrats all week to write compromise legislation, and they had hoped to finish this weekend.

That's now unlikely to happen, unless centrists are satisfied that they can go explain the bill at home; so far, that hasn't happened.

"In my mind, there is a compromise position," Landrieu said, "but I don't know what it is yet."


http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/77675.html
 
Honestly, I could care less about Blue Dogs, Repubs, Dems, I'd just like to see anyone with some principles and a basic understanding of Economics. So thats why you'll see me applaud Bernie Sanders when he speaks out against the Fed, or Kucinich, . . .


<h2 class="entry-title">Kucinich Switches Vote on Health Care</h2>


<a href="http://www.nytimes.com"><img id="NYTLogo" alt="New York Times" title="New York Times" src="http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/misc/nytlogo153x23.gif"></a>
March 17, 2010


<span id="t10h20m" class="update"><strong>10:28 a.m. | Updated </strong></span> Representative <a href="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/k/dennis_j_kucinich/index.html">Dennis J. Kucinich</a> of Ohio said today that he plans to support the health care bill when it comes up for a vote this week. He becomes the first Democrat to publicly disclose his intention to <a href="http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/16/kucinich-to-announce-his-position-on-health-care/">switch from a “No” to a “Yes” vote</a> on the legislation.

“I’ve decided to cast a vote in favor of the legislation,” Mr. Kucinich said at a morning news conference in the Capitol. “If my vote is to be counted, let it count now for passage of the bill, hopefully in the direction of comprehensive health care reform.”

Mr. Kucinich said he was “quite aware of the historic fight” underway and decided to drop his opposition that the bill did not go far enough. He said, “I believe health care is a civil right."
</div>

FULL STORY: http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/17/kucinich-switches-vote-on-health-care/
 
<h2 class="entry-title">Kucinich Switches Vote on Health Care</h2>

As proud as I was when he introduced his articles of Impeachment against Dubya, Today, I am equally disappointed! Please excuse the CAPS QueEx but y'all must admit, he flip-flopped and sold the fuck out.

"The new proposal starts with a wholly unacceptable Senate health care bill and, with a few exceptions, continues to make it worse. It's a much better bill for insurance company investors than it is for the American people." - Kucinich Feb 24

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2010/02/24/2211376.aspx
 
<font size="5"><center>
Blue Dogs Face Sharp Losses in Midterms</font size>
</center>


Wall Street Journal
Gerald F. Seib
OCTOBER 26, 2010


WASHINGTON—More than half the members of the Blue Dog Coalition—the organization of moderate to conservative Democrats in the House—are in peril in next week's election, a stark indicator of how the balloting could produce a Congress even more polarized than the current one.

The Blue Dogs are often seen as a kind of human bridge, connecting left and right in the House. But that bridge is imperiled by the coming Republican wave in midterm elections, the most stark example of how the midterms are likely to weaken Capitol Hill's political center.

Of 54 Blue Dogs in the House, six already have retired or decided to seek other offices. Of those trying to stay, 39 are in competitive races, according to the Cook Political Report, and 22 of those are in pure toss-ups.

Among those facing the toughest races are some of the Blue Dog Coalition's leaders. Rep. Stephanie Herseth Sandlin of South Dakota, one of the co-chairs of the group, is locked in a contest with State Rep. Kristi Noem; in the most recent polling earlier this month, conducting by Rasmussen Reports, Ms. Herseth Sandlin trailed 47% to 43%.

Similarly, Rep. Baron Hill of Indiana, a fellow Blue Dog leader, is battling Republican attorney Todd Young in a deadlocked race both parties see as an indicator of the size of the GOP wave.

The bottom line is that the Blue Dog population could be cut significantly, conceivably by half, in next week's voting.

<font size="3">Blue Dogs tend to come from more conservative swing districts, where their hold on their seats is more tenuous in any case, and where voters are more likely to move right when the national winds push strongly in that direction.

"This is going to be a very tough election for the Blue Dogs, because many of them had success in districts where Democrats are always an endangered species," says Jim Kessler, vice president for policy at Third Way, a think tank promoting the ideas of moderate Democrats. "If they lose, some of them may come back in a future wave election, but those are never safe seats." </font size>

Meantime, liberal Democrats such as Nancy Pelosi, John Conyers and Henry Waxman hail from reliably Democratic districts, and they will be returning.

<font size="3">The upshot is one of the great political ironies of the year: A national conservative wave will hit hardest not at the most liberal Democrats, but at the most conservative Democrats. The Democratic caucus left behind will be, on balance, more liberal than it was before the election. </font size>

Meantime, a similar dynamic, only in the opposite direction, will be unfolding within the Republican House caucus. The election figures to bring to Washington some 50 newcomers on the Republican side—some of whom will replace retiring Republicans, others who will take over Democratic seats—and few of them are from the political center.

Instead, the tea-party movement has helped produce a crop of Republican newcomers who are ideologically to the right, and often quite intense about their views. "These people aren't interested in coming here to compromise," said one senior GOP House aide.

The net result will be a Republican House caucus pushed to the right by its newest members. The space vacated in this process will be the ideological center. That old line from Texas populist Jim Hightower—"There's nothing in the middle of the road but yellow stripes and dead armadillos"—will feel prescient.

Write to Gerald F. Seib at jerry.seib@wsj.com

FULL STORY: http://online.wsj.com/article/capital_journal.html
 
<CENTER>
Blue Dogs Face Sharp Losses in Midterms
</CENTER>


Wall Street Journal
Gerald F. Seib
OCTOBER 26, 2010


WASHINGTON—More than half the members of the Blue Dog Coalition—the organization of moderate to conservative Democrats in the House—are in peril in next week's election, a stark indicator of how the balloting could produce a Congress even more polarized than the current one.

The Blue Dogs are often seen as a kind of human bridge, connecting left and right in the House. But that bridge is imperiled by the coming Republican wave in midterm elections, the most stark example of how the midterms are likely to weaken Capitol Hill's political center.

Of 54 Blue Dogs in the House, six already have retired or decided to seek other offices. Of those trying to stay, 39 are in competitive races, according to the Cook Political Report, and 22 of those are in pure toss-ups.

Among those facing the toughest races are some of the Blue Dog Coalition's leaders. Rep. Stephanie Herseth Sandlin of South Dakota, one of the co-chairs of the group, is locked in a contest with State Rep. Kristi Noem; in the most recent polling earlier this month, conducting by Rasmussen Reports, Ms. Herseth Sandlin trailed 47% to 43%.

Similarly, Rep. Baron Hill of Indiana, a fellow Blue Dog leader, is battling Republican attorney Todd Young in a deadlocked race both parties see as an indicator of the size of the GOP wave.

The bottom line is that the Blue Dog population could be cut significantly, conceivably by half, in next week's voting.

Blue Dogs tend to come from more conservative swing districts, where their hold on their seats is more tenuous in any case, and where voters are more likely to move right when the national winds push strongly in that direction.

"This is going to be a very tough election for the Blue Dogs, because many of them had success in districts where Democrats are always an endangered species," says Jim Kessler, vice president for policy at Third Way, a think tank promoting the ideas of moderate Democrats. "If they lose, some of them may come back in a future wave election, but those are never safe seats."


Meantime, liberal Democrats such as Nancy Pelosi, John Conyers and Henry Waxman hail from reliably Democratic districts, and they will be returning.

The upshot is one of the great political ironies of the year: A national conservative wave will hit hardest not at the most liberal Democrats, but at the most conservative Democrats. The Democratic caucus left behind will be, on balance, more liberal than it was before the election.

Meantime, a similar dynamic, only in the opposite direction, will be unfolding within the Republican House caucus. The election figures to bring to Washington some 50 newcomers on the Republican side—some of whom will replace retiring Republicans, others who will take over Democratic seats—and few of them are from the political center.

Instead, the tea-party movement has helped produce a crop of Republican newcomers who are ideologically to the right, and often quite intense about their views. "These people aren't interested in coming here to compromise," said one senior GOP House aide.

The net result will be a Republican House caucus pushed to the right by its newest members. The space vacated in this process will be the ideological center. That old line from Texas populist Jim Hightower—"There's nothing in the middle of the road but yellow stripes and dead armadillos"—will feel prescient.

Write to Gerald F. Seib at jerry.seib@wsj.com

FULL STORY: http://online.wsj.com/article/capital_journal.html



“Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time”

Harry S. Truman
 
<font size="5"><Center>
Moderate Democratic 'Blue Dogs'
hope to bounce back</font size>

<font size="4">Diminished Blue Dogs are hoping
to get their Capitol Hill bite back;
insist they are more relevant than ever.</center></font size>


McClatchy Newspapers
By Michael Doyle


WASHINGTON — The diminished Blue Dogs are hoping to get their Capitol Hill bite back.

Three months after the November election that slashed their numbers, and one month after losing a symbolic challenge to House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, members of the moderate Democratic coalition insist they are more relevant than ever.

"We still believe moderation is important, and we have to move toward that course," Rep. Dennis Cardoza, D-Merced, said Monday. "We're looking to make sure that people know that there are moderates in Congress."

Following a day-long New York City retreat, in which they hatched strategies and were addressed by former President Bill Clinton, the House Blue Dogs vowed to focus on issues like regulatory reform and deficit control. Where possible, they said, they'll work with politically amenable House Republicans.

"We have to look at different ways of being relevant," Cardoza said.

Some of the Blue Dogs had deliberately avoided the official House Democratic retreat, held earlier this year. At their own event held at the Loews Regency Hotel, which was to include a fundraiser, the lawmakers huddled with some nonpartisan groups such as the budget-balancing Concord Coalition.

"(It was) a very good and interesting presentation," Rep. Jim Costa, D-Fresno, said by e-mail.

Cardoza and Costa are two of the 26 remaining members of the Blue Dog Coalition. Before November's election swept Republicans back into control of the House, the coalition claimed 53 members.

The Blue Dog pack is shrinking even farther, to 25, on Tuesday, with the expected announcement by Rep. Jane Harman, D-El Segundo, that she is resigning to become president of the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars.

Most of the widespread losses in 2010 reflected the fact that Blue Dogs generally represent conservative, often-rural areas where Republicans gain easy traction. Though Costa and Cardoza both won re-election, they spent a combined $3.2 million to do so.

The two San Joaquin Valley lawmakers have since been distancing themselves more explicitly from Pelosi's liberal Democratic leadership. Cardoza stepped down from the Pelosi-appointed House Rules Committee, and as a protest nominated Costa for House Democratic leader last month.

Costa returned the favor, nominating Cardoza. They were among the 19 House Democrats not to publicly vote for Pelosi as leader on the first day of the 112th Congress.

Earlier, in a secret ballot in November, 43 House Democrats voted against Pelosi and for a Blue Dog, Rep. Heath Shuler, D-N.C. Pelosi, in turn, has seemingly shunned the dissidents, some lawmakers say.

Since being founded by then-Rep. Gary Condit of Ceres and other rural Democrats in 1995, the Blue Dogs have struggled with mixed success to flex their muscles. Their basic argument has remained the same for 15 years: as centrists, they are well positioned to work across the aisle.

"We weren't nearly as effective in the majority as I think we'll be in the minority," Rep. Mike Ross, D-Ark., said Monday.

Cardoza added that "there will be a number of votes" in which Republican leaders may have trouble rallying their own tea party activists, in which case the moderate Democrats can step in to cut a deal. An early test could come when the House must vote on whether to extend the nation's debt ceiling.

"We are the only group that tries on a regular basis ... to find bipartisan solutions," Costa said.



http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/02/07/108254/moderate-democratic-blue-dogs.html
 
It's funny how in order to win elections you guys have to move to the center or change your name from liberal to progressive.

Blue Dog = Democrat = Fricken Garbage
 
It's funny how in order to win elections you guys have to move to the center or change your name from liberal to progressive.

Blue Dog = Democrat = Fricken Garbage

How many votes did the socialist Obama kick the conservative McSame and Falin asses by in the 2008 election?


I'll be waiting, but as usual you will disappear from this thread when checked!
 
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