Michael Wilbon: Kobe or Michael? Manning or Elway?(And yes, the Cubs really

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I CPd the real parts in the second half it for you non-reading muthafuckas

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?page=wilbon/101208

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I've been screaming opinions at you every afternoon for the past nine years, so a formal introduction might not be all that necessary. But 90 seconds of back-and-forth interrupted by a bell isn't quite the same as a full-fledged discussion examining 360 degrees of an issue and all its complexities. So if you're not entirely sick of my chatter by 6 p.m. ET, you can find, starting today, even more of me in column-form on ESPN.com and ESPNChicago.com. Long before "PTI," the sports section of The Washington Post was where I stated my case. But since we've already agreed an introduction isn't needed, perhaps a warning label of some sort is in order, just so you know why you're getting what you're getting.


• I hate the BCS. If playoffs are good enough for every other sport in Division I, Division II and Division III, and if March Madness can stage perhaps the most beloved sporting competition in America, then how can college football be so arrogant as to turn up its nose at a playoff? At the very least, some bowl game should have moved heaven and earth to match Boise State with Ohio State. It could have been called the Orville Redenbacher E. Gordon Gee Bowl, and tell me who, exactly, wouldn't have watched it?

• After initial cynicism, I've come to not only accept but believe in the intent of the NFL's new obsession over reducing head injuries and the new rules that have been put in place. I knew Darryl Stingley; the league is determined to never see a player suffer that kind of injury on the field again. Launching into another player with your head? Get rid of it. But fining defensive players every time helmets collide? That's absurd … as if players moving at those speeds with their bodies being pushed and pulled can calibrate exactly where their heads are going to hit. Players are on the money when they say there should be a panel full of ex-players who help decide the rules and the penalties. If you want to avoid injuries in sport, play golf. I'm dead serious. Nobody makes anyone play football. I'm going to make sure my son, who's now 2½, doesn't play organized football of any consequence. Football is designed to be and intended to be a violent game. It's nice that the caretakers, after ignoring head injuries for decades, now want to tell you they need to protect the players … while aggressively negotiating an 18-game season that will cause even greater attrition.

• I like to take shots at Michigan football and Notre Dame football … though not as much lately because both have become so irrelevant. How much dislike can you work up for programs whose primary December activity is deciding whether to hire a new coach? Of course, I'd send my son to either school proudly, but there's no way you could have attended Northwestern before the mid-1990s and not at least smile at arrogance getting some comeuppance.

• The Cubs are cursed … by the weight of expectations. They'll win at some point when it's least expected, the way the Red Sox did down 3-0 in the ALCS to the Yankees, which is to say the point where there are absolutely no expectations. It's so silly when the new manager and new players say the past 100 years of losing don't matter because they weren't around and don't feel responsible for the collapses and ineptitude over the decades. They're made aware of it the first time they go to the dry cleaners or to a parent-teacher night or simply dinner and a movie. You can't live in or around Chicago, be a Cubs player, and not know by May 1 of your first year with the team how much it would mean to the metropolis for the Cubs to win. It hangs over everything, all the time. They're in the shadow of failure, constantly. As a Cubs fan, I want guys who are going to say, "Yes, this franchise is cursed. I get it." To act like a century of failure doesn't affect them is, well, dumb … and counterproductive. When does avoidance ever work?

• I'm a proud son of the Midwest. Grew up on the South Side of Chicago in the 1960s and 1970s. Yes, South Sider and Cubs fan. But I don't hate the White Sox; never did and never will. My dad was somehow friendly with Bill Veeck. I grew up in Chicago when it was extremely segregated and black players from both teams lived predominantly on the South Side … although I have great Super 8 home movies of Bill Melton and Walt Williams leading our Little League parade in the spring of 1970. So I love the Cubs, and quietly wish the White Sox well. Sorry, this notion that I have to hate one or the other ignores too much. Tony Kornheiser asked me during the 2005 World Series if I was going to root for the Houston Astros, and I said to him very seriously, "You want me to root for a team with 'Houston' across its jersey to beat a team with 'Chicago' across its jersey?" Not only that, but I love Kenny Williams and find Ozzie irresistibly entertaining.

• I'm a product of Jesuit education, St. Ignatius College Prep, but not Catholic. My Last Supper would be ribs from Leon's on 83rd and Cottage Grove, except since I had a heart attack 2½ years ago and have been told to stay away from ribs, it literally could be my last supper. I like my pizza thin, not deep dish. There's no place, none, better than Chicago in the summer and people are sick of hearing me say that in metropolitan Washington, D.C., where I've lived for 30 years. I've got Midwestern sensibilities, and anybody who has lived in the East that long knows for sure Midwestern sensibilities do exist. ESPN's eastern-tilted decision makers might not realize that millions of folks in the Midwest care more about Cardinals-Cubs than Yankees-Red Sox, and more about Bears-Packers than Jets-Patriots, but I do.

• Peyton Manning, God bless him, isn't the best QB in the history of the NFL; John Elway is
. (Remind me again how many Pro Bowl teammates Elway had on the first three AFC championship teams he dragged to the Super Bowl by himself?) And if not Elway, then Otto Graham. And if not Graham, then John Unitas. And if not Unitas, then Joe Montana. I'm an enormous fan of Manning's, professionally and personally. He could be, for all the right reasons, the most popular player in the NFL today. But he's not the best QB playing today. Tom Brady is. I don't know how you vote Manning ahead of Brady, the way that NFL Network survey turned out. Doesn't Brady have three Super Bowl championships and doesn't Manning have one? I presume most people can count to three.

• Kobe Bryant is one of the 10 best players to play the game of basketball. But he will never be as great as Michael Jordan. Don't dare read this as Kobe-hating. I'm rooting for Kobe to be in the Finals this spring again. But nobody has ever been as good as Jordan, not LeBron James, either; and he never will be, and people in my business need to stop suggesting it. There's not an all-court player in the game today who does anything as well as Jordan did. Just consider this one stat: If you take out his final full season (1997-98), the lowest shooting percentage in Jordan's career with the Bulls is higher than the highest shooting percentage of Kobe's career. I'm sure we'll revisit this a bunch of times in the spring, when Kobe is approaching his sixth title, which would tie him with Jordan.

• We don't talk much about soccer on "PTI," but my first assignment as a cub reporter for The Post was covering professional soccer (Washington Diplomats of the long-defunct North American Soccer League). I like soccer and its popularity is growing, but you're not ever going to read in this space that soccer is taking over the world, or going to pass American football, basketball or baseball in popularity in this country. It's not going to happen. Just like Europeans and Asians largely prefer the NBA to their own basketball leagues, Americans who follow soccer with any world context know MLS isn't anywhere close (yet) to the English Premier League, Germany's Bundesliga, Spain's La Liga, Italy's Serie A or even France's Ligue 1. So, no, I'm really, really, really unlikely to write about a soccer game in America instead of, say, a big American sporting event.


• Never presume I don't know anything about hockey. A great many black kids in the Midwest (particularly Detroit, Minneapolis and Chicago) grow up playing hockey. I'm one of them.

I defend LeBron James' right to go anywhere he wanted as a free agent, but completely side with Michael Jordan, Charles Barkley and Magic Johnson who say they wouldn't under any condition have hooked up with their primary rivals. Sports, in my old-school way of thinking, are about beating your rivals, not joining them. The Miami Heat phenomenon is great for pro basketball, even better for column writing. But when Pat Riley approached Michael Jordan about joining forces after the 1996 season, Jordan said, "No thanks."

• I don't like teams that play half the time, no matter how much talent they have, like the San Diego Chargers.

The NBA and the players' union should agree on a rule that keeps kids out of the league for two years following their high school graduation. Whether they go to college, the D-League or overseas is their business. But the NBA should make them serve an apprenticeship somewhere. Any industry has the right to determine terms of work. The NFL says three years and makes it stick because it's been collectively bargained. The NBA and the college game and, most importantly, the kids in question would be better off staying two years in college. For every Kobe, KG, T-Mac and Dwight Howard, I'll point out a Kwame Brown and Korleone Young and Eddy Curry. Tell me Kwame wouldn't be a better player and have made boatloads more money had he gone to the University of Florida. I don't have patience for people who tell me, especially in the case of African-American kids, that education is an impediment to success. It's not an inalienable right to play professional basketball. Two years.

• Yes, I can talk right through the bell, figuratively, and it's quite easy to do with no Kornheiser with whom to share the time. I love barroom arguments, like whether you'd take Andrew Luck or Cam Newton if you had the first pick in the NFL draft (right now I'd take Luck, but it's fluid). But even more, I love to discuss the difficult issues, the ones that make people examine their values and what they believe in, and to challenge what they think they believe. I know just about everybody on the ESPN Commentary team; and those I don't know, I know their work. I'm excited to be included in this expanded role for ESPN. There's no more split duty. As of right now, I'm all-in, and this is thanks in advance for your indulgence.
 
I wish this Kobe vs MJ talk would die. At the end of the day who really cares? Both great players. Both might end up with 6 rings. One was born in 63', the other in 78'. Done.
 
good read I always liked wilbon he is honest and fair and he gives an opinion that kind of lines up with most logical people and he is never one to just line up with the popular opinion
 
Who cares about Kobe vs. Jordan. But that nigga is probably the most biased muthaphucca ever when it comes to that answer.... He's from Chicago.
 
Is he? damn :lol::lol::lol:

I started to post that, but thought it was general knowledge. It doesn't really matter though, as most analysts agree with that opinion as well.

That said, i'm not really a fan off his overall NBA commentary.
 
#1 Joe Montana followed by Elway. Peyton's not even in the same ballpark as Elway. 5 Superbowl appearances and 3 of those appearances were with shitty teams. On top of that, Peyton chokes, however Peyton Manning > tom brady
 
I wish this Kobe vs MJ talk would die. At the end of the day who really cares? Both great players. Both might end up with 6 rings. One was born in 63', the other in 78'. Done.
I agree. I'm sick of it.

The circumstances were completely different fr the league and the players themselves.

The number of teams, greater influx of foreign players, defensves rules, some favor this generation, some that favor that generation, offensive rules, free agency, the positions have changed a bit, so on and so forth.
 
#1 Joe Montana followed by Elway. Peyton's not even in the same ballpark as Elway. 5 Superbowl appearances and 3 of those appearances were with shitty teams. On top of that, Peyton chokes, however Peyton Manning > tom brady

man...how the fuck was Manning already ranked as the 8th greatest football player ever at this point in his career...
 
kobe vs mj needs to die
kobe just can't be mj period. no matter how many rings no matter what he does. the impact on the court and off of it is too great a shadow to overcome.

i agree with the peyton sentiment. brady is better. i dont believe elway is the best, if i had 1 game for my life with any qb in history in their prime i'd take montana and i wouldn't even need to think about it.

brady is behind montana to me. difference is what do you need
if you need a td to win, bettter get montana.
if you just need to get in field goal range, then you can get brady.

nba does need a 2 year rule at least. it would help both levels. college would be better and nba wouldnt be flooded.

i think wilbon does like/love chicago but i don't think he's biased. he won't hesitate for a second to acknowledge when his teams (bears/cubs/bulls) stink.
 
man...how the fuck was Manning already ranked as the 8th greatest football player ever at this point in his career...

Each generation I see this need in every sport to anoint a player "GOAT". Maybe it makes the fans feel good. Maybe shittin on players past validates today's weaker player. While I like Peyton and believe he's a very good QB, he's barely a top 10 all time QB, let alone a top 10 all time NFL player.
 
man...how the fuck was Manning already ranked as the 8th greatest football player ever at this point in his career...

strictly on stats.
manning is a statistic BEAST but the numbers don't reflect the true talent imo. he'll end up with all the records...but he won't be anywhere near brady in my book
favre has all the records and he is nowhere near a top 10 qb of all time in my book

whenever someone argues otherwise i always point to the fact that they have favre at the top of the list, when he had as many good teams around him as anyone, and only produced 1 sb, and he wasn't even the reason they won that one, they won in spite of him
 
strictly on stats.
manning is a statistic BEAST but the numbers don't reflect the true talent imo. he'll end up with all the records...

Yeah man..dude has been choking since Tennessee..he can run an offense and will give you big numbers but if you put some pressure on him, he gets happy feet and pill panic in the pocket...especially in big games
 
Beyond Peyton getting more hype than he deserves, the biggest overrated overhyped Gladstone Duck ass Quarterback in NFL history is Tom Brady.

This asshole has to many "lucky breaks" in his resume to be considered at all:
Tuck Rule
Adam Vinatieri
Drew Bledsoe
Adam Vinatieri
Adam Vinatieri

has this muthafucka ever won a pivotal game on his arm?
Then he chokes in the biggest game in NFL history.

And fuck you niggas who want to talk this "awwww nigga, Brady got his team in position to kick a field goal nigga..." Rex Grossman proved that any trained monkey can move a team in field goal range.

Mark my words, Brady will find a way to choke AGAIN come playoff time.

Back when I watched the game, Montana and Elway made sure the kicker kept his ass on the bench. You didn't even see kickers warming up on the sidelines.
 
Yeah man..dude has been choking since Tennessee..he can run an offense and will give you big numbers but if you put some pressure on him, he gets happy feet and pill panic in the pocket...especially in big games

he's a stats man that's it to me. he got his ring i don't expect anymore. almost because he's a victim of his talent. they figure we can plug anyone in here and then we'll win cause of him. when is the last time the colts landed a superstar offensive free agent? that's cause of his talent level
i think that peyton is the 2rd most talented qb physically behind elway and vick
 
Beyond Peyton getting more hype than he deserves, the biggest overrated overhyped Gladstone Duck ass Quarterback in NFL history is Tom Brady.

This asshole has to many "lucky breaks" in his resume to be considered at all:
Tuck Rule
Adam Vinatieri
Drew Bledsoe
Adam Vinatieri
Adam Vinatieri

has this muthafucka ever won a pivotal game on his arm?
Then he chokes in the biggest game in NFL history.

And fuck you niggas who want to talk this "awwww nigga, Brady got his team in position to kick a field goal nigga..." Rex Grossman proved that any trained monkey can move a team in field goal range.

Mark my words, Brady will find a way to choke AGAIN come playoff time.

Back when I watched the game, Montana and Elway made sure the kicker kept his ass on the bench. You didn't even see kickers warming up on the sidelines.

:confused:
 
rings say otherwise.

and 50 TDs.

the other 3 can't walk in brady shoes.

Name me one pivotal game other than MAYBE the Superbowl against the Philadelphia Pigeons Brady has won on his arm alone.

This is the same muthafucka that choked against the Giants.

Keep in mind Rapistburger has 2 rings, if he gets #3, which I project them to get, then Brady is out of the conversation.
 
26 home games in a row.

IN A ROW

16 win season.

2 superbowl mvp.

and ben didn't win those rings.

hell he didn't get MVP on either of those.
 
Name me one pivotal game other than MAYBE the Superbowl against the Philadelphia Pigeons Brady has won on his arm alone.

This is the same muthafucka that choked against the Giants.

Keep in mind Rapistburger has 2 rings, if he gets #3, which I project them to get, then Brady is out of the conversation.

rapistburger is irrelevant just like bradshaw was
the steelers win, when they run the ball and or when the defense is playing like the classic steelers defense. that's it.

if there is no running game, ben wins nothing
if the defense isn't what it usually is, ben wins nothing.
ben is good, he is no peyton, he is no brady, he is no brees.
 
and ben didn't win those rings.

Neither did Brady in 2 Superbowls. ADAM VENETIERI KICKED THE GAME WINNING FIELD GOALS IN BOTH SUPERBOWL GAMES.


rapistburger is irrelevant just like bradshaw was

TERRY BRADSHAW WAS NOT IRRELEVANT. Those last 2 Superbowls were won because of Bradshaw. Sure, he struggled, but then he got his shit together.

BRADY WON 2 SUPERBOWLS OFF THE TUCK RULE, DREWBLEDSOE BAILING HIM OUT IN THEIR FIRST AFC CHAMPIONSHIP GAME AND ADAM VENETERI'S LEG. THIS IS FACT.


And again, you clowns fail to address that TOM BRADY CHOKED IN THE BIGGEST GAME IN NFL HISTORY.
 
if the defense isn't what it usually is, ben wins nothing.

Ben threw the game winning touchdown in the Superbowl against Arizona. HE WON THE GAME ON HIS ARM WHILE PLAYING WITH A BROKEN RIB.

Tom Brady get's his knee fucked up on a legitimate play. What does the league do? Invent "the brady Rule". You know a QB is soft as baby shit when the league has to invent a rule NAMED AFTER HIM to protect him.
 
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