"Lil Wayne Is The Greatest Rapper Of All Time" -KRS-1

[ScottyPiffen745]

That muthafucka should've winked at the camera or something, muthafuckas is starting to think he forreal.......including me!!!

 

[J Storm]

I don't want to debate with you on this but...
Emcee and Rapper are two totally different things...
One is for the love while the other is for the money

So you saying Emcees don't do it for the money? Man, what pipe you smoking? Your on that New Shit those White kids on Skateboards and B-Boys be on. When HipHop Began, they all did it first for respect. When Money came into play, they all did it for Pay.

Emcees read and controls the crowd (your first DJs were Emcees (Grand Master Flash and Afrika Bambaataa) before the rapping side came in.)
With or without music an Emcee can move the crowd.

First DJ's were Emcees? You do know what Emcee means "master of ceremony". Back in the day, the Emcee or MC was only the DJ's HYPE MAN. Some DJ's were Both and some DJ's had their own MC's.

Only with music a rapper can get the crowd to move.

Well, I saw JAY Z aka the BEST RAPPER ALIVE move a crowd with no music in the background. So what is Jay Z? a Emcee or a Rapper? or BOTH?

An Emcee has talent. A Rapper just sounds good

This is based on your personal taste.

An Emcee has to have meaning and/or lyrics
A Rapper just puts words together that sounds like they rhyme

Oh yeah because we all know how SUPER GREAT MF DOOM is. I mean, when he says "Oodles" and makes it rhyme with "Noodles"... Amazing.

This is also not totally correct.
RAP was not a verb it was and is a noun. It's actually R.A.P. which stands for RHYTHM AND POETRY...a category of music.

Rap was originally a Verb.
"Rhythm and Poetry" was some slick phrase RAKIM made on Follow the Leader. The D.O.C. called it "Rhythmic American Poetry"
R&B aint called RAB MUSIC. Rap aint called R&P.

Rapping was a verb and is a verb. It's what the streets called slick talk of game back in the day. If you were shooting game at a girl it was called your rap. If you didn't have rap then you had no game.

I Agree. It's still the root to the word RAP

The terminology of emceeing before it was called emceeing was rhyming.
But it got confused because rappers rhyme too. So to not be confused with a rapper...emcees had to say something and be lyrical. This dates back to the Last Poets.

See where u fucked up? You said Rappers were the Street Slick Talkers who had Game. This mean they must of had some degree of Lyrical Content. Yet you want to make it seem as if Rapping and Emceeing are Different? You say IT GOT CONFUSED... When did it get Confused? Yep.. in the 1990's is when dudes got Confused.

Rappers are commercial...they don't have to make sense, all they have to do is make cents. Rappers have no code of honor (meaning they break all rules of emceeing)

There you go with that Rhetoric Again. What does it mean to be commercial? Does it mean to sell out? I've seen KRS ONE do it (Nike, Sprite). I've Seen RAKIM do it (Remember that video with all them white girls)

An Emcee don't bite (still someone else's style or lyrics or punchlines and at as if they originated it).An Emcee don't recite someone else's rhyme and plays it off as if it's their own (meaning having someone ghost write for you).

Oh and Rappers do? Who the hell says someone else's lyrics and play it off like its their own? I ain't seen this done since the early to mid 1980's.

An Emcee's style is them in essence not something made up to sell.

Like Will Smith

An Emcee heart and soul is in whatever they recite about

Like T.I.

An Emcee's words (rhyme/poetry) has meaning and depth whether the words are simplistic or complicated.

Like Andre 3000

An Emcee don't need a look to be marketable just the talent to make their listeners listen.

Like LIL FLIP

An Emcee can bend and chop words to fit

Like Lil Wayne

An Emcee's playgrounds are cyphers

Because they don't have a Record Deal.... YET

An Emcee masters wordplay an executes it with ease

Like Young Jeezy

A Rapper doesn't have to have meaning in their lyrics, just sound good saying whatever they're saying.

Like MF DOOM

A Rapper doesn't have to write their own rhymes, just say them like they wrote it

Like MC LYTE's verse in SELF DESTRUCTION (Her verse was written by LL Cool J)

A Rapper has to have look/image (gimmick) in order to be marketable.

Like EPMD with the Fishermen Hats. Or Slick Rick with all the GOLD CHAINS? Or The FURIOUS FIVE with their PUNK ROCK Gear?

A Rapper has no shame in copying someone's sound, style, punchlines, and/or whole idea.

Like DMX who stole SPELLBOUND from K-SOLO?

If a Rapper has something to say then it's a plus
A Rapper tries to rhyme words together as best as possible

And your saying this is what LL Cool J does?I Guess you must have forgotten about his First Album RADIO. Or were you even Born?

A Rapper's playground is the studio

All dudes on WAX recorded in a Studio. Stop playing games.

A Rapper mimicks an Emcee's wordplay and sounds like they're trying (it's not with ease and effortless).

Really, So your saying this is what LL Cool J, Kriss Kross, Antionette, Foxy Brown, Lil Wanye, and Kwame did?

To further this statement...look at these artists
Emcees
Rakim, KRS One, Kool G Rap, Slick Rick, Kool Moe Dee, Redman, EPMD, Jungle Brothers, Poor Righteous Teachers, Queen Latifah, Monie Love, Tung Twista, Special Ed, Dana Dane, Heavy D, Tupac, Biggie, Biz Markie, Shan, DMX, M.O.P., Run DMC, Whodini, Lyte, Illegal (Jamal & Malik), Naughty By Nature, Nas, AZ, Big L, Lord Finesse, Ice Cube, DOC, Snoop Dogg, Big Pun, Eminem, Canibus, Serch from 3rd Base, Public Enemy, etc...

All these folks had Record Deals.
Rakim sold out to Hennessey.
KRS sold out to Nike and Sprite.
Slick Rick changed his image.
Kool Moe Dee changed his Image and Style.
Queen Latifah changed her image after her second album.
Tung Twista changed his style up to be more Marketable.
DANA DANE BIT SLICK RICKS STYLES.
Biggie Changed his style up to be more Marketable.
DMX stole his name from Just Ice's Partner and Bit off K-Solo.
Whodini sang Love songs like LL Cool J yet you consider him to be just a Rapper. Lyte had other folks write some of her verses. Illegal.. Come on man, They aint write their shit... A lot of dudes on this list you want to say were TRUE EMCEES based on those BULLSHIT definitions you gave ABOVE? You think BIZ MARKIE wrote most of his first album? COME ON MAN. HOW OLD ARE YOU!

Rappers
LL Cool J, Kriss Kross, Antionette, Foxy Brown, Dr. Dre, Puffy, Lil Wanye, Kwame, and there's more...

LL Cool J is a Rapper to you based on your definition above? You saying LL Cant Capture a Crowd? You saying LL "Tries to make words Fit"? You saying LL is just a studio rapper? COME ON.You got Kriss Kross here because they aint write their own shit, well neither did Biz Markie but you got him as an Emcee. Foxy Brown is one of the illest Lyricist out there but she did Change her style up to be more Marketable. Dr. Dre and Puffy have all their shit written for them. Kwame is just a Rapper? Why? Is it because he made Party Music? Lil Wanye bite off Jay Z but name an Emcee who didn't emulate someone before them?

Emcees who became Rappers
Salt N Pepa, Kid N Play, Big Daddy Kane, Jay-Z...there's more

Salt N Pepa based on your definition of an Emcee were never Emcees to begin with because Herbie Luv Bug wrote all their Rhymes when they first came out. Kid N Play's style never changed - From "Last Night" to "My Way" to "Gettin Funky" to "2Hype" to "Energy"... They had Many styles from the start. You saying they were just Studio Rappers with no Love and only in it for the money? Big Daddy Kane changed his Style up. Jay Z changed his style up. I guess Ghostface is a Rapper too then. I seen him on 106 and Park the other day.

Rappers were considered Sucker/Wack Emcees by Emcees, and this dates back before the backpack era. You must understand that the backpack era was the early 90s and that was considered the new school. The backpack era were dancers who were becoming Emcees (then other underground Emcees followed).

I was there when it all began, I was living in NYC. I use to be one of those "JANSPORT ROCKERS" who tried to get on. I don't remember no Underground... Maybe because back then, what you consider underground was so normal.It was the Backlash to EMCEE or MC HAMMER that brought about the whole BACKPACK shit. He DROPPED the MC from his NAME and that gave the dudes who wanted to get on an excuse to REDEFINE words.

Backpack Emcees
Redhead Kingpin, The Pharcyde, Souls of Mischief, Leaders of the New School, A Tribe Called Quest, Jaru The Damaja, Mos Def, Del Tha Funky Homosapien, Da Bush Babees, Black Moon, Fu-Schnickens, UMC, KMD, and more...[/B]

So your saying all the groups that came out in the 1990s are Backpack or just the guys who Danced? I don't remember KMD Dancing? I don't remember Jeru Dancing? Fu Schnickens? UMC was like Kid N Play at first! Happy Raps! I see a whole lot of names on this list that contradict the things you listed above.


KNOCK IT OUT THE BOX KID. STOP trying to BOX our CULTURE. Reminds me when KRS tried to dis NELLY for Singing and Rapping, But when Kurtis Blow, The Crash Crew and the Force MD's did it, it was all Good. Sometimes, Hiphopers act like they don't know.. or they catch AMNESIA... OR they just weren't BORN.
You forgot to Add THE BLACK EYED PEAS

 

[catalina74]

NOW are you cats willing to concede KRS 1 is either a fool or a fork-tongued bullshitter, lately?

i agree

 

[oolong tea]

J Storm, with those good points, you're no fun to argue with.

NOW are you cats willing to concede KRS 1 is either a fool or a fork-tongued bullshitter, lately?

C/S but I'm still going to cop Ruminations and the Gospel of Hip Hop books

 

[soulcontroller]