Libya: No Fly

[Gunner]

Exclusive: Obama authorizes secret help for Libya rebels

http://www.reuters.com/


Exclusive: Obama authorizes secret help for Libya rebels



By Mark Hosenball
WASHINGTON | Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:16pm EDT
(Reuters) - President Barack Obama has signed a secret order authorizing covert U.S. government support for rebel forces seeking to oust Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, government officials told Reuters on Wednesday.

Obama signed the order, known as a presidential "finding", within the last two or three weeks, according to government sources familiar with the matter.

Such findings are a principal form of presidential directive used to authorize secret operations by the Central Intelligence Agency. This is a necessary legal step before such action can take place but does not mean that it will.

As is common practice for this and all administrations, I am not going to comment on intelligence matters," White House spokesman Jay Carney said in a statement. "I will reiterate what the president said yesterday -- no decision has been made about providing arms to the opposition or to any group in Libya."

The CIA declined comment.

News that Obama had given the authorization surfaced as the President and other U.S. and allied officials spoke openly about the possibility of sending arms supplies to Gaddafi's opponents, who are fighting better-equipped government forces.

The United States is part of a coalition, with NATO members and some Arab states, which is conducting air strikes on Libyan government forces under a U.N. mandate aimed at protecting civilians opposing Gaddafi.

Interviews by U.S. networks on Tuesday, Obama said the objective was for Gaddafi to "ultimately step down" from power. He spoke of applying "steady pressure, not only militarily but also through these other means" to force Gaddafi out.

Obama said the U.S. had not ruled out providing military hardware to rebels. "It's fair to say that if we wanted to get weapons into Libya, we probably could. We're looking at all our options at this point," he told ABC News anchor Diane Sawyer.

In Washington, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton insisted to reporters that no decision had yet been taken.

U.S. officials monitoring events in Libya say neither Gaddafi's forces nor the rebels, who have asked the West for heavy weapons, now appear able to make decisive gains.

While U.S. and allied airstrikes have seriously damaged Gaddafi's military forces and disrupted his chain of command, officials say, rebel forces remain disorganized and unable to take full advantage of western military support.

SPECIFIC OPERATIONS

People familiar with U.S. intelligence procedures said that Presidential covert action "findings" are normally crafted to provide broad authorization for a range of potential U.S. government actions to support a particular covert objective.

In order for specific operations to be carried out under the provisions of such a broad authorization -- for example the delivery of cash or weapons to anti-Gaddafi forces -- the White House also would have to give additional "permission" allowing such activities to proceed.

 

[MCP]

Cameron: Libya UN resolution makes mission 'difficult'

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[Lamarr]

Why Are We Waging War With Libya?

"We'll be in this conflict days, not weeks."

Article

Some believe it [the NATO/US-led Libyan invasion] is about protecting civilians, others say it is about oil, but some are convinced intervention in Libya is all about Gaddafi's plan to introduce the gold dinar, a single African currency made from gold, a true sharing of the wealth.

Gaddafi did not give up. In the months leading up to the military intervention, he called on African and Muslim nations to join together to create this new currency that would rival the dollar and euro. They would sell oil and other resources around the world only for gold dinars.

It is an idea that would shift the economic balance of the world.

"If Gaddafi had an intent to try to re-price his oil or whatever else the country was selling on the global market and accept something else as a currency or maybe launch a gold dinar currency, any move such as that would certainly not be welcomed by the power elite today, who are responsible for controlling the world's central banks," says Anthony Wile, founder and Chief Editor of the Daily Bell.

"So yes, that would certainly be something that would cause his immediate dismissal and the need for other reasons to be brought forward from moving him from power."

And it has happened before.

In 2000, Saddam Hussein announced Iraqi oil would be traded in euros, not dollars. Some say sanctions and an invasion followed because the Americans were desperate to prevent OPEC from transferring oil trading in all its member countries to the euro.

A gold dinar would have had serious consequences for the world financial system, but may also have empowered the people of Africa, something black activists say the US wants to avoid at all costs.

Some say the US and its NATO allies literally could not afford to let that happen.

 

[thoughtone]

Re: Why Are We Waging War With Libya?

<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/muXknXqdM20" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>​

 

[nittie]

Re: Why Are We Waging War With Libya?

There could be some truth to this besides the man has 17 billion in cash so the invasion was about money.

 

[thoughtone]

Re: Why Are We Waging War With Libya?

There could be some truth to this besides the man has 17 billion in cash so the invasion was about money.

You never question Reagan, HW Bush!

<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/5dqn9Hwf-H0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>​

 

[thoughtone]

Re: Why Are We Waging War With Libya?

source: Think Progress


GOP Presidential Candidates Respond To Fall Of Qaddafi By Refusing To Credit Obama



Republican presidential hopefuls have been offering their reactions to the fall of Qaddafi’s regime, giving praise for many involved save for — perhaps predictably — President Obama, who many of them attacked for endorsing the NATO intervention earlier this year.

Rick Santorum: “Ridding the world of the likes of Gadhafi is a good thing, but this indecisive President had little to do with this triumph.”
​

It’s hard to see how that statement bears any resemblance to reality, considering that many in Santorum’s own party attacked Obama for doing too much in Libya. In fact, Santorum himself accused Obama of “dithering” and”do[ing] nothing” in Libya in April, saying Obama “really missed an opportunity.”

Mitt Romney: “The world is about to be rid of Muammar el-Qaddafi, the brutal tyrant who terrorized the Libyan people. It is my hope that Libya will now move toward a representative form of government that supports freedom, human rights, and the rule of law. As a first step, I call on this new government to arrest and extradite the mastermind behind the bombing of Pan Am 103, Abdelbaset Mohmed Ali al-Megrahi, so justice can finally be done.”
​

In March, Romney accused Obama of being “weak” with the Libya intervention, suggesting Obama’s foreign policy “can’t prevail.” “He calls for the removal of Moammar Qaddafi but then conditions our action on the directions we get from the Arab League and United Nations,” Romney added. In a blog post for National Review in April, Romney warned of “mission creep” and approvingly quoted former U.N. ambassador John Bolton, who Romney said “rightly notes that Obama has set himself up for ‘massive strategic failure’ by demanding Qaddafi’s ouster.” Of course, Obama’s approach did “prevail.”

Rick Perry: “The crumbling of Muammar Ghadafi’s reign, a violent, repressive dictatorship with a history of terrorism, is cause for cautious celebration. The lasting impact of events in Libya will depend on ensuring rebel factions form a unified, civil government that guarantees personal freedoms, and builds a new relationship with the West where we are allies instead of adversaries.”
​

Perry didn’t speak publicly about the Libya intervention specifically, but has repeatedly attacked Obama’s foreign policy, saying in his presidential campaign announcement, “[Obama] is an abject failure in his constitutional duty” to protect America. “His foreign policy seems to be based on the alienation of traditional allies,” Perry added. Of course, it was the traditional American allies of the U.K. and France with whom U.S. primarily conducted the Libya intervention.

Much as with the killing of Bin Laden, the GOP candidates seem to be unwilling to give even a modicum of congratulations to their political opponent, even on a matter of national security that seemingly every politician in the U.S. should support. Instead, Romney and others are already pivoting to demanding the extradition of the Lockerbee bomber, which would appear to be a means to put Obama back on the defensive when he should riding high, even it means threatening Libya’s fragile transitional regime with outside pressure.
Update


Michele Bachmann weighed in, also refusing to credit the administration or NATO: “I opposed U.S. military involvement in Libya and I am hopeful that our intervention there is about to end. I also hope the progress of events in Libya will ultimately lead to a government that honors the rule of law, respects the people of Libya and their yearning for freedom, and one that will be a good partner to the United States and the international community.”

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[pookie]

Re: Why Are We Waging War With Libya?

We all know that america is not concern about no body being killed. Right here in america the chief of police dropped a bomb on unarmed men women and children. The move organization.
And in jonestown america was involved in the murder of almost 1000 people in jonestown. In south africa botha was killing around a thousand blacks every day and regan wanted to send troops to south africa to make sure botha stays in power to kill blacks off in south africa. In rawanda america and the un sent troops to rawanda to get the 250 white people out and get out the way for unarmed men women and children to be chopped to small parts. Clinton was in office then and they told him if he would just jam the radio communications he could save hundreds of thousands of people. He said no because it was a fcc violation.
In panama america killed so many poor people to where they had to use bulldozers to dig mass graves. And then it was still to many people. They had to start taking bodies to the ocean and throw them in. And america actually tested new weapons on the poor people in panama. Nothing to do with arresting noriega.
In ancient history, we lost over a million blacks in the middle passage.
Pretty soon people will be scared to be righteous or to do what they know is right.

 

[BlackWolf]

Turkey Reveals Quiet Rebel Payments

Ankara Says It Has Given the Opposition $200 Million and NATO Will Stay in Libya Until Situation Is Under Control

By Sam Dagher

BENGHAZI, Libya -- Turkey revealed it has been bankrolling Libyan rebel leadership over the past month and vowed its unconditional future support, underscoring the jostling for influence in postconflict Libya already under way among members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization,

Turkey's message Tuesday was delivered by its Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu during a surprise visit to Benghazi. He is the most senior official from a member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization state to visit the rebels' eastern stronghold since Col. Moammar Gadhafi's regime started its quick unraveling over the past week. That occurred in the face of a NATO-backed rebel assault against the capital Tripoli and surrounding areas in the country's western half.

Turkey, a pivotal player in Middle Eastern affairs, enjoyed warm ties with Col. Gadhafi's regime, and its companies control a big chunk of the lucrative infrastructure sector in the oil-rich North African country.

Ankara at first reluctantly backed the start of NATO's operations against Col. Gadhafi in March but then changed policy and recognized the rebels when its efforts to broker a peaceful solution failed.

"The Turkish people, and the Turkish government and Turkish officials, have overcome bureaucracy and transferred the funds they had promised the Libyan people in cash and directly," said Mustafa Abdul Jalil, head of the rebels' National Transitional Council, during a joint news conference with Mr. Davutoglu.

Mr. Abdul Jalil said that if it weren't for cash handouts from Turkey the rebels' governing body would have been unable to pay salaries and provide basic needs, including food, in August.

"It's a new method for transferring money called the Turkish method," added Mr. Abdul Jalil, jokingly referring to the Turkish cash payments.

Mr. Davutoglu said Turkey has given the rebel leadership $100 million in cash and another $100 million as "a gift," and is carrying out humanitarian projects valued at $100 million, but declined to provide further details.

The Turkish official said he took part in a video teleconference on Monday with his counterparts from the so-called Libya contact group, which includes the U.S. and other NATO member countries.

He said that the group would convene an emergency meeting in Istanbul in the coming days, and that topping the agenda would be a possible decision to release to the rebel leadership overseas assets worth tens of billions of dollars belonging to Col. Gadhafi's regime but which were frozen following United Nations sanctions earlier this year.

"We trust the virtuous leadership of Mr. Mustafa Abdul Jalil and we stand by him and support him until the very end," said Mr. Davutoglu, offering high praise of the rebel leader.

He added that NATO's operations would continue until the situation was brought under control all over the country, and didn't specifically address the fighting in Tripoli.

"We won't accept that any part of Libya be deprived of security and stability," Mr. Davutoglu said.

The media appearance by the two officials seemed to be carefully orchestrated, with friendly Turkish reporters selected to ask questions that ignored the situation in Tripoli and the dramatic appearance of Col. Gadhafi's son Seif al-Islam last night following a statement by Mr. Abdul Jalil that he and a brother Mohammed were in rebel custody.

The defiant appearance of Seif al-Islam, who is wanted for crimes against humanity, in front of Western video cameras in Tripoli has significantly undermined the credibility of Mr. Abdul Jalil and has shocked rebel supporters in Benghazi.

Some are already speaking about a conspiracy between the rebel leadership and Col. Gadhafi and his family to facilitate their escape from Tripoli.

Many also see the rebel leadership as being out of touch for staying put within the relative safety of Benghazi while the decisive battle for Libya rages more than 600 miles to the west.

As if offering a dose of belated consolation to his supporters, Mr. Abdul Jalil said all those who collaborated with Col. Gadhafi would face trial, including himself for serving four years as justice minister before the start of the uprising in February.

"I will submit myself to trial for the four years I spent as a minister with Moammar Gadhafi," said Mr. Abdul Jalil before pleading with the Libyan people to show mercy and forgiveness.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903461304576526173935320088.html

 

[thoughtone]

Re: Why Are We Waging War With Libya?

source: Think Progress


Leaked Cable: McCain Promised Qaddafi To Help Secure Military Equipment From U.S.

​

For all the braying by the Senate’s top three hawks about how the U.S. wasn’t doing enough to oust Libyan dictator Col. Muammar Qaddafi from power, one might be surprised to learn that exactly two years ago, Sens. John McCain (R-AZ), Joe Lieberman (I-CT) and Lindsey Graham (R-SC) were in Tripoli meeting with the erratic leader and giving him assurances that relations between the nations were on the mend.

According to a leaked August 2009 U.S. diplomatic cable released by WikiLeaks recounting the Senators’ junket, the neoconservative Connecticut Senator captured the dynamic of aligning with a brutal dictator:

Lieberman called Libya an important ally in the war on terrorism, noting that common enemies sometimes make better friends.
​

Qaddafi’s history as a top enemy of the U.S. stretched back decades, but his change of heart came quickly after the U.S. invaded Iraq under the pretense of Saddam Hussein’s development of weapons of mass destruction. Hawks seized on Libya’s détente with the West as a sign that Bush’s tough actions in Iraq were having a ripple effect, though patently not, as Iraq War boosters had predicted, with regard to democratic reforms. “We never would have guessed ten years ago that we would be sitting in Tripoli, being welcomed by a son of Muammar al-Qaddafi,” said Lieberman, according to the leaked cable.

The three Senate hawks discussed in detail the Qaddafi regime’s security needs with Libyas National Security Adviser, Qaddafi’s son Muatassim. According to the cable:

5.(C) Senator McCain assured Muatassim that the United States wanted to provide Libya with the equipment it needs for its [a Libyan security program]. He stated that he understood Libya’s requests regarding the rehabilitation of its eight C130s [a transport plane] and pledged to see what he could do to move things forward in Congress. He encouraged Muatassim to keep in mind the long-term perspective of bilateral security engagement and to remember that small obstacles will emerge from time to time that can be overcome.
​

At another point, McCain and Graham reiterated pledges to push to fulfill the Qaddafi regime requests at the Pentagon and on the Hill:

Senators McCain and Graham conveyed the U.S. interest in continuing the progress of the bilateral relationship and pledged to try to resolve the C130 issue with Congress and Defense Secretary Gates.
​

But 18 months later, Qaddafi reacted to mass protests by mobilizing his military, bringing down international condemnation and, in just a few short weeks, a U.N. Security Council resolution authorizing the use of force. The U.S. and it’s allies in NATO and elsewhere rained down bombs to hold Qaddafi’s forces at bay as rebels organized a coherent opposition council. As the rebels went on the offensive, Western and allied bombers lent them air support with surveillance and tactical bombings.

When suddenly — as if Qaddafi’s repression had emerged from out of the blue — McCain and his clique returned to their perches as the staunchest advocates of U.S. military action in Liyba, taking to the airwaves to lament the U.S.’s mere three-week delay to build international consensus and calling for arming the Libyan rebels.

Just as the political winds around Qaddafi seemed to determine the senators’ stand — for him when it was convenient as a win for the Bush administration, and against him when the uprising began and in the month it took to rally the Security Council — McCain and Graham took a curious political shot at Obama just as Qaddafi’s regime crumbled. In a statement, they thanked everyone but the U.S. Starting with the Libyans themselves, they went on to

also commend our British, French, and other allies, as well as our Arab partners, especially Qatar and the UAE, for their leadership in this conflict. Americans can be proud of the role our country has played in helping to defeat Qaddafi, but we regret that this success was so long in coming due to the failure of the United States to employ the full weight of our airpower.
​

One wonders if August 2009 was too soon to press Qaddafi on the well-being of his people: there’s no hint of democratic reforms, or indeed the Libyan people, in the WikiLeaks cable.

 

[jackfrost]

Re: Why Are We Waging War With Libya?

Virtually unknown in the West: Libya's water resources. Another reason for toppling Quadaffi?

We still wonder how on earth did Qaddafi manage to stay in power for forty years? Did no one notice his madness until now? Did no one notice that he built a HUGE FRESH WATER PIPELINE to the Benghazi region, that lunatic? Were they waiting for him to finish?

The 1st of September[2010] marks the anniversary of the opening of the major stage of Libya's Great Man-Made River Project. This incredibly huge and successful water scheme is virtually unknown in the West, yet it rivals and even surpasses all our greatest development projects. The leader of the so-called advanced countries, the United States of America cannot bring itself to acknowledge Libya's Great Man-Made River. The West refuses to recognize that a small country, with a population no more than four million, can construct anything so large without borrowing a single cent from the international banks.

...In the 1960s during oil exploration deep in the southern Libyan desert, vast reservoirs of high quality water were discovered in the form of aquifers. ...

...In Libya there are four major underground basins, these being the Kufra basin, the Sirt basin, the Morzuk basin and the Hamada basin, the first three of which contain combined reserves of 35,000 cubic kilometres of water. These vast reserves offer almost unlimited amounts of water for the Libyan people.

www.galenfrysinger.com

According to the writer Ali Baghdadi, "the river is a new lesson and an example in the struggle to achieve self-sufficiency, food security and true independence. No nation that depends on a foreign country to feed its people can be free. The Great River is a triumph against thirst and hunger. It is a defeat against ignorance and backwardness. It reflects the determination of Libyans to resist colonial pressure, to acquire technology, to develop, to improve their lives, and to control their own destiny in accordance with their own free will."
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1. the Great Man Made River project, in Libya which is probably the largest and most complex engineering project in the world was invested by Gadaffi, which is taking over 20 years to build and costing over 30 billion dollars to make it happen, ALL of the money used to help this project was purely from Libya, not a single dollar was borrowed from the outside world. This project is a great investment. , a huge complex irrigation system, it has also been dubbed the 8th wonder of the world.

This will help farmers cultivate land and provide fresh water to the masses the ability to grow crops with sustainability and able to produce enough crops that it will have to bring in migrant workers from overpopulated Egypt which will benefit Egypt and export crops which will stimulate its economy further. A long term sustainable project, which is criticized and envied by the west. A country that can provide for itself without the need to import anything and in debt to no country is frowned upon by America

 

[Fuckallyall]

Re: Why Are We Waging War With Libya?

Virtually unknown in the West: Libya's water resources. Another reason for toppling Quadaffi?

We still wonder how on earth did Qaddafi manage to stay in power for forty years? Did no one notice his madness until now? Did no one notice that he built a HUGE FRESH WATER PIPELINE to the Benghazi region, that lunatic? Were they waiting for him to finish?

The 1st of September[2010] marks the anniversary of the opening of the major stage of Libya's Great Man-Made River Project. This incredibly huge and successful water scheme is virtually unknown in the West, yet it rivals and even surpasses all our greatest development projects. The leader of the so-called advanced countries, the United States of America cannot bring itself to acknowledge Libya's Great Man-Made River. The West refuses to recognize that a small country, with a population no more than four million, can construct anything so large without borrowing a single cent from the international banks.

...In the 1960s during oil exploration deep in the southern Libyan desert, vast reservoirs of high quality water were discovered in the form of aquifers. ...

...In Libya there are four major underground basins, these being the Kufra basin, the Sirt basin, the Morzuk basin and the Hamada basin, the first three of which contain combined reserves of 35,000 cubic kilometres of water. These vast reserves offer almost unlimited amounts of water for the Libyan people.

www.galenfrysinger.com

According to the writer Ali Baghdadi, "the river is a new lesson and an example in the struggle to achieve self-sufficiency, food security and true independence. No nation that depends on a foreign country to feed its people can be free. The Great River is a triumph against thirst and hunger. It is a defeat against ignorance and backwardness. It reflects the determination of Libyans to resist colonial pressure, to acquire technology, to develop, to improve their lives, and to control their own destiny in accordance with their own free will."
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1. the Great Man Made River project, in Libya which is probably the largest and most complex engineering project in the world was invested by Gadaffi, which is taking over 20 years to build and costing over 30 billion dollars to make it happen, ALL of the money used to help this project was purely from Libya, not a single dollar was borrowed from the outside world. This project is a great investment. , a huge complex irrigation system, it has also been dubbed the 8th wonder of the world.

This will help farmers cultivate land and provide fresh water to the masses the ability to grow crops with sustainability and able to produce enough crops that it will have to bring in migrant workers from overpopulated Egypt which will benefit Egypt and export crops which will stimulate its economy further. A long term sustainable project, which is criticized and envied by the west. A country that can provide for itself without the need to import anything and in debt to no country is frowned upon by America

So, does this mean that Obama wants an Islamic African nation to fail in its move to regional power ?

 

[jackfrost]

Re: Why Are We Waging War With Libya?

i dont think that obama has any say to it
remember sarkozy started the whole war and here's why
Why Sarkozy Went to War
Apr 3, 2011 9:53 AM EDT
My philosopher made me do it! France's president needed help taking down Gaddafi. He got it from the intellectual swashbuckler Bernard-Henri Lévy.
Levy, a well-known writer and film maker in France, is credited with pressuring President Nicolas Sarkozy to mobilize international political and military support of the Libyan revolt.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/africa/110427/libya-gaddafi-tripoli-bernard-henri-levy-video

 

[QueEx]

Re: Why Are We Waging War With Libya?


Libya Seeks Delay in Ending UN No Fly Zone

A senior Libyan diplomat has asked the U.N. Security Council to delay
adoption of a resolution ending the NATO-enforced No Fly Zone over
Libya. That mission is due to end on Monday.

He said Libya looks forward to terminating the need for the No-Fly-Zone
which was protecting citizens from forces loyal to former leader Moammar
Gadhafi, but conceded that the security situation may not be stable enough
to do so just days from now. He also noted that the national armed forces
have not been reactivated, and there is some question of Libya’s current
capacity to monitor its borders. Ambassador Dabbashi is heard here through
a translator.

“Therefore, we wish to inform you not to be hasty in adopting a resolution
and we will inform you of official decision of NTC which we hope will be prior
to the end of this month,” Dabbashi said.

>
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NTC Requests NATO Involvement in Libya Until End of Year

The head of Libya's interim government Mustafa Abdul-Jalil


Libya's interim leader of Libya, Mustafa Abdul Jalil said NATO should stay
involved in Libya until the end of this year to help prevent loyalists of
Muammar Al Qathafi from leaving the country.

He went on to say that stopping the flight of the Al Qathafi loyalists to
other countries was a priority. “We seek technical and logistics help from
neighbouring and friendly countries." Abdul-Jalil is hoping NATO could stay
on the mission until the end of the year.