True... Dudes be like 'he almost averaged a triple double', but when you dig in, shit was ineffective as fuck
Lebron
- Thread starter VaneGod
- Start date
True... Dudes be like 'he almost averaged a triple double', but when you dig in, shit was ineffective as fuck
Thats my small forward right there
That being said, he's definitely in the GOAT discussion, and has a lot of strong points to support him in that context. On court performance, team accomplishments, historical context and longevity all need to be included in the debate, but the factors the player themselves have control over should weigh more heavily than those say dependent on Managerial and GM moves, etc.
....again, Thats my small forward right there
dude has had some really shitty finals..lebron stans don't want you to kno...4 diff series 4 or more turnovers...4 diff series under 50 percent fg... 5 series losses...didn't average 18 points in 1 seriesWell damn... this is a fucking eye opener... This shit was as bad or worse than his Mavericks finals... Talk about overrated hollow stats... Jeezus
None of MJs Finals can touch LeBron's best. Hell LeBron's Finals last year that he lost averaging a 30 point triple double is better than half of the Finals Jordan won in.
you act like hakeem was a bum and wasnt considered 1 of the best players in that draft.. now you acting like being picked number over is gonna overshadow him still being beneath jordan... so a 3rd pick outshined a number 1 pick.. jordan was picked number 3 and lebron number 1 and yet jordan did better than lebron overall
Jordan would average 50 in today's game. Defensive rules are completely different, LeBron is definitely an iron man but it doesn't hurt at all playing in today's game. What is a flagrant foul today wasn't even a common foul back in the day. So I don't even know how his body would have held up.
hilary clinton had more votes than trump... nobody cares about that when u see trump sitting in the presidental seat...juss like nobody cares about a triple double in a lossing effort
Jordan came in with lower expectations. Even on his championship team in the NCAA he wasnt the man. When he was the man they couldnt sniff a Final 4 his last 2 years. Nobody had Jordan pegged to be one of the greatest coming out. NO ONE. 2 players were drafted before him and no one batted an eye. Bruh, NOBODY was getting drafted ahead of LeBron James. Cleveland tanked their entire 2002-03 season to get him. He came in with the expectation to be one of the greatest of all time and has lived up to the hype. Jordan never went thru none of that. He became a fan friendly pitchman in his NBA days. Prior to that, he was just another 2 guard. All of you Jordan dickriders hopped on AFTER he became a popular NBA player. LeBron got fans from his high school days.
they made a lot of promissary notes
Damn... shit is like groundhogs day.... Fam you CONTINUOUSLY shit on Dude and own his dumb ass in these threads! May be felonious assault man, mentally abusing the mildly retarded. Be careful Dude, in case he goes off the rails and gets re-committed to the gay retarded fag farm
to whom?
U mean for whom?
Bull Fuckin shit.Without him, there’s no series. It was literally 1 vs. 6 out there.
He had 2 other allstars and all 3 refs in his team... not to mention Adam Silver
Usual suspects.
aint tell one lie
Out of everything mentioned no-one mentions the one thing that separates the two of these men and that will always separate the two of these men. Basketball IQ.
On one hand we have a player who came up in a traditional system like all other players before him. Under the guidance and teaching of great coaching. Hall of fame coaching. He was taught the game and was allowed to develop and understand how to play at an extremely high level under these great basketball minds. Hall of fame minds in college and the pros.
On the other hand you had a literal kid who was taught by a high school coach that no-one remembers. This kid has arguably the greatest basketball IQ seen and no-one ever asked where did that come from? We never truly stepped back and appreciated the level of genius and savant we are dealing with.
He took a motley crew of rag tags to the finals four years out of high school. When most players should have been on their rookie year out of college and he did it with a coach who couldn't coach a high school team to divisional finals.
I think we are judging his greatness by the wrong set of standards and rules. I think we should throw all the old ones out and use the ones that he created because he's special. He's not even once in a generation. He's once ever.
We are talking about a player who can remember dam near every play ran from every team he's played against and plan for it on the fly. Let that sink in. He has never suffered any real injuries, is in his physical prime and has a memory bank repository of information to pull from like this? It's dam near unfair.
I think it's time we stop comparing him to other people and start comparing others to him. It's like watching companies comparing the benefits of the dvd to the digital download.
On one hand we have a player who came up in a traditional system like all other players before him. Under the guidance and teaching of great coaching. Hall of fame coaching. He was taught the game and was allowed to develop and understand how to play at an extremely high level under these great basketball minds. Hall of fame minds in college and the pros.
On the other hand you had a literal kid who was taught by a high school coach that no-one remembers. This kid has arguably the greatest basketball IQ seen and no-one ever asked where did that come from? We never truly stepped back and appreciated the level of genius and savant we are dealing with.
He took a motley crew of rag tags to the finals four years out of high school. When most players should have been on their rookie year out of college and he did it with a coach who couldn't coach a high school team to divisional finals.
I think we are judging his greatness by the wrong set of standards and rules. I think we should throw all the old ones out and use the ones that he created because he's special. He's not even once in a generation. He's once ever.
We are talking about a player who can remember dam near every play ran from every team he's played against and plan for it on the fly. Let that sink in. He has never suffered any real injuries, is in his physical prime and has a memory bank repository of information to pull from like this? It's dam near unfair.
I think it's time we stop comparing him to other people and start comparing others to him. It's like watching companies comparing the benefits of the dvd to the digital download.
What’s the story behind all that?
Behind all what???
2015. Are we talking the same year where all he had was that Australian cat when Love and Kyrie went down?
He had a fuck ton of help from refs
Honestly 16 was worse, the Refs may as well suited up in Whine N Gold
Curry n Klay were getting MUGGED all series
Don't have a dog in this fight either way, but I had to think about this for a second...the only Hall of Fame coaches he's played for was for a limited time during the Olympics (Larry Brown and Coach K)...and Brown didn't even use him much. He's had good coaches (Spoelstra) and fair coaches (Mike Brown, Blatt, Lue, Silas) for longer than that, but not who most would consider great coaches.
LeBron can never be the best player ever with finals stats like this.
The running joke with his coaches is that he's always coached the teams he's been on and that he was a coach killer. If you didn't allow him to run the team then as a coach you could find yourself out of a job.
So we're talking about a basketball savant who's managed to dominate his field for the entire part of his career and he's been able to do it without the benefit of having a hall of fame coach on his corner teaching him any aspect of the game. There is no other player in the history of the game who wad or is able to do that.
Instead of appreciating what we are truly witnessing we are comparing him to old traditions, old guards and out dated standards instead of what we should be comparing him to. Himself. The future.
He's basically been a full time coach/basketball player/GM his entire career and has been extremely successful at it. Mind blowingly so with no sight of slowing down.
If I had to choose between him and any other player to start a team with all things considered, health, longevity, ability, IQ... I'm picking this dude. He plays the game right and his game is cerebral.
I'm with you on this one. Appreciate it and enjoy while you can.
When I was in the army we had this old way of thinking every time we got to a new duty station. "My old station was better because...." then we'd go into all these reasons as to why not recognizing that we was living a revisionists history and not respecting the moment we was in.
We had some great memories and some bad but we was missing opportunities that was present in the moment trying to compare yesterday to today. We do that on everything, especially sports. It's how the sports media machine makes its money on the off-season and slow news cycles. It's a shame that it's going to take him retiring and someone else coming along for us to compare him to in order for us to truly appreciate just what we got. What the game of basketball has.
Like I said dude ain't a once in a generation player, he ain't even a once in a lifetime player. He's an entirely new prototype. A whole different make and model. What separates him from every one else isn't just his physical ability. We've seen his body type before. What we haven't seen is a pure basketball savant that came into the league game ready as a boy among men and has played at an elite level since his first rookie game. As I've stated before where did he learn the game from? He only played high school then came into the league as an apex predator.
Say what you will but even hall of fame coaches respect his mind and would give up their franchise player to have him in his declining years.
Yeah, Jordan and Magic.
I think this is a dumb fucking discussion anyway because you're comparing a SHOOTING GUARD who's primary role until this new era of scouting where they want everyone to be a utility player, even down to power forwards and centers, (positionless league) was to SCORE THE FUCKING BALL!
You're comparing a SHOOTING GUARD to a point forward. Compare him to Magic and there is a closer match in skill, stats and playing style (to some degree) besides freakish athleticism because LeBron is just way more athletically gifted.
But even then Magic still got him in chips, assists, steals, clutch play, and in his first 5 years in the league he had more rebounds than LeBron.
LeBron is one of my all time favorite players, but please tell me when he hit a clutch shot for a championship win with a triple double when his star center was out as a ROOKIE and I'll shut the fuck up.
Further more, a player that leads his team in all statistical categories for more than one season shows that either he's not efficient and utilizing his teammates strengths appropriately or the GM needs to be fired along with the coach. LeBron has been involved in both cases.
Don't get upset when a player (Jordan) saw that it wasn't necessary to do everything for his team when he had capable players to defer to. It obviously got him multiple wins, scoring titles, dpoy awards, and both league and playoff MVPs.
Oh, and the majority of this was directed toward King Taharqua for his previous comments.
Nice silioque but you forget with that basketball IQ you also need killer instinct to win. He is arguably one of the greatest basketball minds to come into the league, but so are Jordan, Magic, Bird, Bill Russell and crew, Oscar Robertson, etc.
He has you say the greatest basketball intellect yet he only has won 3 chips out of the many times he's been there.
I give him the first 7 yrs (Jordan also struggled during this time) but what about after?
In an analogy that I think makes perfect sense to compare to, you don't see Mr. FANTASTIC from the Fantastic 4 doing all the fighting when they are in battle do you? He is arguably the greatest intellect in the Marvel Universe as a human and he defers to his teammates and strategizes ahead of time so they can win (I know they have lost plenty of battle so cut me some slack).
Even in this fantastical scenario, fucking Jordan is better because he managed to go tho the finals 6 times and win each time without going to a game 7!
The only person that can shit on Jordan is Bill Russel and crew...thats it. Jordan lead those teams too. So rethink your revisionist history a bit. LeBron is great but he is not the greatest basketball intellect ever.
Why are you trying to interject something into the argument that shouldn't be here? I'm not discussing any of those things. They've already been beaten into the ground. In fact it's the go to response whenever he's being discussed.
What's not being discussed is what I mentioned. Every person you tried to fit into what I've just discussed had hall of fame coaches at some point. On every level of their careers. For extended periods. Someone who actually taught them the game. The X's and O's. HOWEVER the thing that separates him from all of those other people is the fact that all he ever had was a high school coach that you couldn't name without Google and his own will to learn and ability to absorb and apply on the fly what he's learned. That's phenomenal. It's the equivalent of learning to fly a jet AND becoming an ace pilot by going to the air force academy, skipping fighter pilots school and jumping into a plane going into a fire fight.
If you can't be honest about this one aspect then it's blatantly obvious, overwhelmingly obvious, obviously obvious that your either bias or have an out right hatred for this man. Period. Ain't no getting around this. At some point you just have to call it what it is.
You can't compare what he's doing by anybody else's achievements because nobody's done it but him. Sure folks jumped straight to the NBA from high school and even won rings but even they had hall of fame coaches and they ain't doing on the same level.
Just name one great coach Lebron played for and learned the game. Still the best player on the floor. Self taught. Imagine if he had Dean Smith for 3 years and Phil Jackson for almost a decade. Would he be even a better player? All his coaches he had in the league was bums and he still went to 8 finals.
Was Phil great before he won a ring?
Yes.
And this is what separates his story line from all others. He's almost what's called an auto didactic. Yes he had some low level coaching but nothing in the level that it takes to even technically make it to draft day. You got guys who had hall of fame coaches in college who ended up selling used cars and missed the league all together.
He also had Tex Winters on his staff.
You said they are crooks where’s the story or are you just making this shit up?
Similar threads
