Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme??

[geechiedan]

First I AM NOT DEFENDING THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY NOR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. I just think that the idea of democrats using welfare as a means of controlling the black community doesn't make sense politically.

From what I understand historically up until the 60s, Democrats have tried to either keeps blacks from voting or suppress the black vote. This seems to be out of the sense that democratic whites felt that blacks just should not be able to do shit that white men can do.

Republicans historically up until the 60s have advocated for blacks to vote and be treated as full citizens (the sincerity of that is debatable but that isn't whats being discussed here).

Black people loyally supported republicans up to about the 40s but shifted to democrats from that time to now.

I'm in a debate with someone over why blacks loyally vote democrat even tho the history of both parties suggest that republicans up until recently made more overtures to the black community in terms of legislation and rights...

And by far the most enduring indictment against the dems is that they use welfare and "handouts" as leverage for black compliance and vote. And they cite LBJ as his quote: "I’ll have those ******* voting Democratic for the next 200 years." as evidence of this.

LBJ also was recorded saying:“These Negroes, they’re getting pretty uppity these days and that’s a problem for us since they’ve got something now they never had before, the political pull to back up their uppityness. Now we’ve got to do something about this, we’ve got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference. For if we don’t move at all, then their allies will line up against us and there’ll be no way of stopping them, we’ll lose the filibuster and there’ll be no way of putting a brake on all sorts of wild legislation. It’ll be Reconstruction all over again.”

but in BOTH instances LBJ was talking civil rights legislation for blacks not welfare. In fact this was written about johnson's thoughts on welfare in general:

"The problem was that Johnson hated welfare. "You tell Shriver no doles," he said to Bill Moyers early in 1964. On Johnson's instructions the economist Lester Thurow, then on the staff of the Council of Economic Advisers, was given the task of going through the annual Economic Report of the President and removing anything that could be construed as a reference to putting cash in the hands of poor people. One year the White House staff succeeded in slipping into the annual presidential budget message a promise to extend welfare benefits to families with unemployed fathers, which was supposed to be the way to make sure that welfare wouldn't break up families; Johnson refused to follow through, because he saw it as more welfare. (This change will finally take place in October, 1990, as one of the provisions of the major welfare-reform law that Congress passed last fall.) In 1968 he appointed a presidential commission on income maintenance, but nothing ultimately came of its work. All through the Johnson Administration a welfare solution to poverty (except poverty among elderly people on Social Security) was not a serious option, because of Johnson himself. And in this one instance Robert Kennedy was never willing to embrace the liberal anti-Johnson position, because he, too, was against welfare, and resisted the entreaties of his staff and of Martin Luther King, among others, to endorse a guaranteed income."
http://www.theatlantic.com/past/politics/poverty/lemunf2.htm

So the contention of republicans who try to reconcile why blacks vote democrat is because of LBJ's Great Society program that was SUPPOSEDLY in part designed to keep blacks complacent and voting democrat (hence the "200 years" line) but that just doesn't add up.

I AM NOT DEFENDING JOHNSON AT ALL. I'm just pointing out that the concept just doesn't make sense. And that leads me to the question:

JUST HOW IMPORTANT HAS AND IS THE BLACK VOTE TO EITHER PARTY IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS???

It makes no sense that democrats who have historically hated and fought against blacks having rights tooth and nail and LBJ who clearly didn't like blacks and hated welfare..would devise a program that allocates million upon millions (BILLIONS over 50 years) all to get the vote and support from a group that politically is only MARGINALLY important.

In the last 50 years since LBJ the last democrat elected there have been 5 republican and 3 democrat presidents. There are currently 29 Republicans and 20 Democrats who are governors. Clearly the republican party has found ways to win major elections without the black vote. That shows you just how vital the black vote is to the process, its so important that the republican party (the same party that fought so hard to make sure blacks got the right) ceded it with no problem. In THIS election the black vote isn't a factor since its already assumed Obama will get 95% of that vote and the polling is STILL tied.

So the idea that democrats use welfare to keep blacks complacent just doesn't add up.

In the video above at the 7 minute mark the dude says that FDR was instrumental in getting blacks to switch to democrats because of ENTITLEMENTS. What he doesn't mention is that was during the DEPRESSION WHEN EVERY FUCKING BODY NEEDED WELFARE! Welfare was most definitely NOT created with black people in mind nor did they have access to it initially..FDR expanded it to blacks. Now why he did that is up for debate but the idea of it being done so blacks can vote democrat at a time where democrats were actively supporting efforts to suppress blacks seems like a stretch.

Then the dude says something thats completely ridiculous..he says "now at some point the democrats knew the black community was going to rise against them..."

The Black community was going to rise against democrats to do what exactly??Thru out american history whenever blacks clashed with whites in any violent way it usually ended with more death and destruction on the black side. And why would a political party with a history of fostering murder, mayhem and intimidation on blacks as a means of keeping them under control suddenly decide that the best way to win their support is to just give them money..in exchange for a voting bloc that doesn't really make a difference in the grand scheme of things?

none of it adds up.

opinions???

 

[GhostofMarcus]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

Yeah that guy is full of shit. I hate republicans is the only reason why I vote. I voted today and I vote against all republicans, just cause.

 

[yureeka9]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

is that the nigga from the Everest College commercials?

 

[geechiedan]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

could we stay on topic please?

 

[geechiedan]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

Yeah that guy is full of shit. I hate republicans is the only reason why I vote. I voted today and I vote against all republicans, just cause.

are you trolling cuz that has nothing to do with the subject??

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

The Black vote is vitally important for Democrats to win and its equally important for Republicans to suppress or shave percentage points off.


Was Johnson recorded having said those things or "reported" to have said them?

Either way, Johnson's personal feelings about Black people, like every other politician, is completely irrelevent. He's still the President that codified the most protections for Black folks, including passing constitutional amendments.

 

[thoughtone]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

could we stay on topic please?

Stay on topic? The premise that Black folk are attracted to one political party or another because we are predisposed to crave government largess is absurd!

Extreme negro republican self hatred shit for sure!

 

[Majestic Lion]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

Either way, Johnson's personal feelings about Black people, like every other politician, is completely irrelevent. He's still the President that codified the most protections for Black folks, including passing constitutional amendments.

It is and always has been relevant. Whatever is given in the spirit of political convenience can always be taken back in the same manner.

 

[thoughtone]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

It is and always has been relevant. Whatever is given in the spirit of political convenience can always be taken back in the same manner.

I'm not 100% sure what that cryptic answer is trying to say. What I will say is that what is most important in politics is not what is said, but what is done.

Since the original post drew illustrations of comments from LBJ, a democratic president, suggesting that his racial comments were true examples of his feelings toward Black folk and not his actions. The original post also inferred that the democratic party in general are getting Black folk to vote for them by appealing to the racist notion that Black folk have an innate craving to want free government stuff.

I say this is the most clear example of self hatred.

Republicans are not immune to racist ambiguity.

Abraham Lincoln's view of Black folk was that we were intrinsically inferior to whites. During the famous Lincoln Douglas debate on October 13, 1858, he said, "which, in my [Lincoln's] judgment, will probably forever forbid their [blacks] living together on the footing of perfect equality."

Lincoln's personal views of Africans at the time of that statement and his actions further on may seem contradictory. But what's most important is his actions.

In today's political discourse, the republicans are using racism to rally their most staunchest supporters and the so called moderate republicans barely or not at all speak out against these tactics. At the same time the republican party's actions are to suppress the vote of those they think will not vote for them (minorities).

I say people should be given the opportunity to grow and change. A person that may be considered a racist can change their views. But changing your views and changing your actions are two different things.

What many fail to understand is that Black folk don't have permanent party affiliations, we have permanent political interests.

Over the decades, the so called "Black vote" has shifted alliances based on those interests. And they will shift again.

Actions speak louder than words!

 

[geechiedan]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

I'm not 100% sure what that cryptic answer is trying to say. What I will say is that what is most important in politics is not what is said, but what is done.

Since the original post drew illustrations of comments from LBJ, a democratic president, suggesting that his racial comments were true examples of his feelings toward Black folk and not his actions. The original post also inferred that the democratic party in general are getting Black folk to vote for them by appealing to the racist notion that Black folk have an innate craving to want free government stuff.

I say this is the most clear example of self hatred.

Republicans are not immune to racist ambiguity.

Abraham Lincoln's view of Black folk was that we were intrinsically inferior to whites. During the famous Lincoln Douglas debate on October 13, 1858, he said, "which, in my [Lincoln's] judgment, will probably forever forbid their [blacks] living together on the footing of perfect equality."

Lincoln's personal views of Africans at the time of that statement and his actions further on may seem contradictory. But what's most important is his actions.

In today's political discourse, the republicans are using racism to rally their most staunchest supporters and the so called moderate republicans barely or not at all speak out against these tactics. At the same time the republican party's actions are to suppress the vote of those they think will not vote for them (minorities).

I say people should be given the opportunity to grow and change. A person that may be considered a racist can change their views. But changing your views and changing your actions are two different things.

What many fail to understand is that Black folk don't have permanent party affiliations, we have permanent political interests.

Over the decades, the so called "Black vote" has shifted alliances based on those interests. And they will shift again.

Actions speak louder than words!

thats not what i'm inferring at all..please reread EVERYTHING I said in that post and you'll see thats not my contenton in the least. In fact the rest of your is exactly what I'm getting at.

 

[geechiedan]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

The Black vote is vitally important for Democrats to win and its equally important for Republicans to suppress or shave percentage points off.


Was Johnson recorded having said those things or "reported" to have said them?

Either way, Johnson's personal feelings about Black people, like every other politician, is completely irrelevent. He's still the President that codified the most protections for Black folks, including passing constitutional amendments.

the problem here is up till the 60s the magnetic poles were different..with the republicans advocating for blacks and democrats suppressing the vote.

IF the black vote is so vital in and of itself one would assume that BOTH parties would be vying for it rather than one gets its while the other looks for ways around it.

 

[QueEx]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

Does it matter whether you look at this locally, by state, regionally or nationally? Seems to me, the only time people are seriously interested in who wants who to participate is during the national, presidential election. Otherwise, politics, as they say, are local -- depending on the race.

So, are you asking nationally or locally or regionally? Or do think that doesn't make a difference?

 

[geechiedan]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

Does it matter whether you look at this locally, by state, regionally or nationally? Seems to me, the only time people are seriously interested in who wants who to participate is during the national, presidential election. Otherwise, politics, as they say, are local -- depending on the race.

So, are you asking nationally or locally or regionally? Or do think that doesn't make a difference?

nationally since all of the advancemnets and progress blacks have experienced as a group have happened at a federal level. also because the idea of blacks voting democrat because of LBJ and welfare expansion happening on a national level. I want to examine and dispel certain notions of why blacks are loyal to the democrats.

 

[thoughtone]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

thats not what i'm inferring at all..please reread EVERYTHING I said in that post and you'll see thats not my contenton in the least. In fact the rest of your is exactly what I'm getting at.

This is the second time you have told me to read your post. Evidently my responses explode your world views.

What I posted is exactly what I got from you. In fact, you re-read my first post. which was more concise.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

It is and always has been relevant. Whatever is given in the spirit of political convenience can always be taken back in the same manner.

That's trying to control or know something you cant ever truly know or control. A politician can give good lip service but support policies detrimental to Black folks.

What many fail to understand is that Black folk don't have permanent party affiliations, we have permanent political interests.

Over the decades, the so called "Black vote" has shifted alliances based on those interests. And they will shift again.

Actions speak louder than words!

As long as the GOP remains openly hostile to Black voters, that shift wont happen.

the problem here is up till the 60s the magnetic poles were different..with the republicans advocating for blacks and democrats suppressing the vote.
IF the black vote is so vital in and of itself one would assume that BOTH parties would be vying for it rather than one gets its while the other looks for ways around it.

To an extent true but as FDR and Eisenhower showed that the R vs D divide wasn't as one sided before the 60s and it is now.

 

[geechiedan]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

This is the second time you have told me to read your post. Evidently my responses explode your world views.

What I posted is exactly what I got from you. In fact, you re-read my first post. which was more concise.

it seems we agree more than disagree but part of your post gives me the impression that you think I'm saying blacks vote democrat for handouts when I'm examining this myth and trying to dispel it.

thats why I laid out the history of the two parties in long form.

 

[Majestic Lion]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

That's trying to control or know something you cant ever truly know or control.

Untrue. There's a Jewish lobby that's been doing exactly that for almost fifty years now.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

Untrue. There's a Jewish lobby that's been doing exactly that for almost fifty years now.

Now that's not true. The "Jewish" lobby (more of an Israel lobby) doesnt care how some politician with a relatively short career span "feels" about Jews or Israel but about the policy they enact. Doesnt mean they won't come after one that says something against them more than they concentrate on the work and not the lip service.

 

[Majestic Lion]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

You just explained exactly how the machine is known and controlled, sir. That's my point, it is possible.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

You just explained exactly how the machine is known and controlled, sir. That's my point, it is possible.

So my point that we can't control what a politico thinks or feels but what they do was right all along?

 

[thoughtone]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

Now that's not true. The "Jewish" lobby (more of an Israel lobby)

Exactly.

Interesting how rhetoric drives the debates.

 

[thoughtone]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

it seems we agree more than disagree but part of your post gives me the impression that you think I'm saying blacks vote democrat for handouts when I'm examining this myth and trying to dispel it.

thats why I laid out the history of the two parties in long form.

Who are you trying to convince?

 

[geechiedan]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

Who are you trying to convince?

there are black people who when confronted with the myth in social circle debates dont have enough background info on how the two parties historically dealt with blacks and so when some conservative (even black ones) posit that democrats use welfare to gain the black vote (as the black dude said in the vid) some people don't have an adequate response.

This thread gives background for that.

 

[Greed]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

If the concept of "grand scheme" is meant to be used interchangeably with "long term," then the answer is not important at all.

Black people, through intra-group murders, abortions, and unhealthy life styles, have been a dwindling proportion of the population for some time. That's why Democrats are desperately trying to appeal to the growing hispanic population which is already a larger demographic than blacks.

The time is likely past for black people to benefit from their relationship with the Democratic party.

 

[QueEx]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

If the concept of "grand scheme" is meant to be used interchangeably with "long term," then the answer is not important at all.

Black people, through intra-group murders, abortions, and unhealthy life styles, have been a dwindling proportion of the population for some time.

That's why Democrats are desperately trying to appeal to the growing hispanic population which is already a larger demographic than blacks.

Are you saying that Black people are a dying breed (declining in number) -- because of black-on-black crime, abotions and unhealthy life styles ??? If so, whats your source/citation ???

 

[Greed]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

Are you saying that Black people are a dying breed (declining in number) -- because of black-on-black crime, abotions and unhealthy life styles ??? If so, whats your source/citation ???

Even though I do believe that, I didn't say that. My post insinuated a diminishing marginal growth for black people if you assume the population of the country is subject to grow, which is what I assume most people would think.

If you wonder why I believe they'll decline in number while saying only the growth is slowing, I'm betting the trend in the negative growth rate will continue and eventually will turn into negative growth over the long term.

 

[thoughtone]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

If the concept of "grand scheme" is meant to be used interchangeably with "long term," then the answer is not important at all.

Black people, through intra-group murders, abortions, and unhealthy life styles, have been a dwindling proportion of the population for some time. That's why Democrats are desperately trying to appeal to the growing hispanic population which is already a larger demographic than blacks.

The time is likely past for black people to benefit from their relationship with the Democratic party.

Black people, through intra-group murders, abortions, and unhealthy life styles, have been a dwindling proportion of the population for some time.

Spoken like a true fool. Please post your evidence for this coonish statement.

 

[thoughtone]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

there are black people who when confronted with the myth in social circle debates dont have enough background info on how the two parties historically dealt with blacks and so when some conservative (even black ones) posit that democrats use welfare to gain the black vote (as the black dude said in the vid) some people don't have an adequate response.

This thread gives background for that.

There are more whites on welfare by far. This thread is not going to convince any self hating "Tom" anything.

 

[QueEx]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

Even though I do believe that, I didn't say that. My post insinuated a diminishing marginal growth for black people if you assume the population of the country is subject to grow, which is what I assume most people would think.

If you wonder why I believe they'll decline in number while saying only the growth is slowing, I'm betting the trend in the negative growth rate will continue and eventually will turn into negative growth over the long term.

C'mon Greed; beliefs and insinuations passed off as fact ??? What is "diminishing marginal growth" ??? - if its not a term of art, then for the rest of us to follow, you need to provide definition/context for there to be clarity.

 

[Greed]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

C'mon Greed; beliefs and insinuations passed off as fact ??? What is "diminishing marginal growth" ??? - if its not a term of art, then for the rest of us to follow, you need to provide definition/context for there to be clarity.

Que, none of us have time to justify every basic word just because someone disagrees with something.

"Diminishing marginal" is a common term for anyone concerned with how things change over time, which most things do.

And I didn't pass my beliefs as facts. My belief is that black people are a "dying breed," but I only posted how they just aren't growing as fast as other groups, specifically hispanics.

On this black board:

Is black people formally being the largest minority group but now it's hispanic in dispute?

Is black people being victims of murder at a higher rate than the general public in dispute? And the secondary assertion being black people are the primary murderers of black people, hence the intra-group reference.

Is black people having a higher abortion rate than the general public in dispute?

Is black people having higher incidence of diabetes and cancers than the general public in dispute? And the secondary assertion here being that it's linked to diet.​

It's not my fault that black people are rarely the focus on this black board.

I try to bump threads speaking of black issues with updates, then thoughtone proceeds to "^^^^" 15 threads about something Republicans did and pushes down the 4 active threads.

And bringing it back to the topic of this thread, you think the Democratic Party doesn't notice the trends in the black community?

The Democratic Party is moving on. They gave black people the policies to murder themselves and sucked them dry in the meanwhile.

What did black people get in return? The only thing I see is an abundance of inter-generational poverty.

 

[thoughtone]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

"Diminishing marginal" is a common term for anyone concerned with how things change over time, which most things do.

Diminishing marginal is another way of saying The law of diminishing returns. What that has to do with the current subject , have no idea.

And I didn't pass my beliefs as facts. My belief is that black people are a "dying breed," but I only posted how they just aren't growing as fast as other groups, specifically Hispanics.

Interesting, just 15 or so years ago, the conservatives said that there were too many "Black" babies being born. Hmmmm?


On this black board:

Is black people formally being the largest minority group but now it's Hispanic in dispute?

I have to admit, this line of talking points is new to me. First off, how do we quantify on a universally accepted method of what "Black" is? The US Census. The census defines what ethnicity a person describes themselves differently each census. Today, there are people of so called mixed race that 20 years ago would be categorized as "Black". I reject the premise of your argument.

Is black people being victims of murder at a higher rate than the general public in dispute? And the secondary assertion being black people are the primary murderers of black people, hence the intra-group reference.

Black people are the primary murderers of Black people? Whites are the primary murderers of white people, Asians are the primary murderers of Asians. How is this an indicator that Black folk are more violent?
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm

I'll tell you serial killers and child molesters are overwhelmingly white. Does this iindict whites?

Is black people having a higher abortion rate than the general public in dispute?

I would say so. Many whites can get private abortions. In fact i have read stories that before Rove V Wade, whites would fly their daughters to counties where they could get abortions and would not be subject to judgment.

Is black people having higher incidence of diabetes and cancers than the general public in dispute? And the secondary assertion here being that it's linked to diet.

I agree with this. Americans in general are less healthy than they were and far less than other western countries. However Black folk have always lived next to industries and waste sites that have effected our health negatively. Yes, as all Americans, many of our health issues are self inflicted, but Black folk have always lived in toxic environments.

It's not my fault that black people are rarely the focus on this black board.

Black folk as all Americans need to take more ownership, but a Black person in Massachusetts or Minnesota is healthier, less likely to be subject to violence, more apt to be more educated and have higher incomes than Black folks living in Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana or South Carolina. What do attribute that too? How do those states vote?

I try to bump threads speaking of black issues with updates, then thoughtone proceeds to "^^^^" 15 threads about something Republicans did and pushes down the 4 active threads.

And bringing it back to the topic of this thread, you think the Democratic Party doesn't notice the trends in the black community?

The Democratic Party is moving on. They gave black people the policies to murder themselves and sucked them dry in the meanwhile.

What did black people get in return? The only thing I see is an abundance of inter-generational poverty.[/QUOTE]

The only thing I see is an abundance of inter-generational poverty

Yes, mostly in the Southern States

According to James Meredith:

"education in Mississippi is worse now than it was 50 years ago."

Who runs Mississippi today and how do the majority of people there vote?

 

[Majestic Lion]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

So my point that we can't control what a politico thinks or feels but what they do was right all along?

I'm saying that there is no difference between the two. LOL.

Also, there's no Jewish vs Israeli difference in there either. It's like charities, except there's even less limitation on where the money goes once it's collected. It goes to South African mining companies, Dutch diamond hoarders, British banking, you name it. Wherever those who are collecting feel best serves their interests. That's the level of focus I'm talking about. That's what is possible and more.

The thinking has to elevate far beyond Democrat vs Republican if we're to succeed. Everything is too interconnected to have that narrow vision.

 

[geechiedan]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

If the concept of "grand scheme" is meant to be used interchangeably with "long term," then the answer is not important at all.

Black people, through intra-group murders, abortions, and unhealthy life styles, have been a dwindling proportion of the population for some time. That's why Democrats are desperately trying to appeal to the growing hispanic population which is already a larger demographic than blacks.

The time is likely past for black people to benefit from their relationship with the Democratic party.

Que, none of us have time to justify every basic word just because someone disagrees with something.

"Diminishing marginal" is a common term for anyone concerned with how things change over time, which most things do.

And I didn't pass my beliefs as facts. My belief is that black people are a "dying breed," but I only posted how they just aren't growing as fast as other groups, specifically hispanics.

On this black board:

Is black people formally being the largest minority group but now it's hispanic in dispute?

Is black people being victims of murder at a higher rate than the general public in dispute? And the secondary assertion being black people are the primary murderers of black people, hence the intra-group reference.

Is black people having a higher abortion rate than the general public in dispute?

Is black people having higher incidence of diabetes and cancers than the general public in dispute? And the secondary assertion here being that it's linked to diet.​

It's not my fault that black people are rarely the focus on this black board.

I try to bump threads speaking of black issues with updates, then thoughtone proceeds to "^^^^" 15 threads about something Republicans did and pushes down the 4 active threads.

And bringing it back to the topic of this thread, you think the Democratic Party doesn't notice the trends in the black community?

The Democratic Party is moving on. They gave black people the policies to murder themselves and sucked them dry in the meanwhile.

What did black people get in return? The only thing I see is an abundance of inter-generational poverty.

in america group population growing or dwindling has more to do with immigration movement than birth and death rates. During slavery times so many africans where imported that they outnumbered whites in the regions where the slave trade took place. Blacks were by far the largest demographic at that time.

Then the european diaspora in the 1900s caused a huge swell in white population that still felt today. And the ONLY reason hispanics is a fast growing population is cuz they keep crossing the fucking border..

So if there was another large influx of african immigrants technically it SHOULD be counted as a growing black population.

I say SHOULD be because I've noticed that african immigrants and black americans tend to be separated when noting positive and negative issues where other groups aren't. Asians are viewed statiscally as one group. They aren't split up as american born asians and immigrant asians. So when immigrant asians come here they tend to already have degrees or more formal education and because their in a different country have better work performance and more focused on getting what they came here to get as opposed to native born asians whose education and performance not be as high but becuase their viewed as one group the immigrants work performance and education buoys the whole group.

The same for latinos. But for blacks, immigrant african work performance and education is denoted. Theres a section of new york where the median income of blacks in that area is actually higher than anyone else even whites but the article I read made the distinction clear that it was primarily due to immigrant africans living there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/01/nyregion/01census.html?pagewanted=all

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

I'm saying that there is no difference between the two. LOL.

Okay then that is where we part ways. LBJ is a perfect example (if he actually said all those things he's supposed to had said) of a man who felt one thing but politically did something else because the proper amount of pressure was applied and he saw how it would benefit him and his party in the immediate and long term future.

Also, there's no Jewish vs Israeli difference in there either. It's like charities, except there's even less limitation on where the money goes once it's collected. It goes to South African mining companies, Dutch diamond hoarders, British banking, you name it. Wherever those who are collecting feel best serves their interests. That's the level of focus I'm talking about. That's what is possible and more.

The thinking has to elevate far beyond Democrat vs Republican if we're to succeed. Everything is too interconnected to have that narrow vision.

There is no Jewish lobby, it's an Israeli lobby. There are many members of said Israeli lobby who are not Jews and dont particulary care for American Jews because they vote too much for Democrats.

On that last paragraph, we are in full agreement.

 

[QueEx]

Re: Just how important has and is the black vote to either party in the grand scheme?

Que, none of us have time to justify every basic word just because someone disagrees with something.

"Diminishing marginal" is a common term for anyone concerned with how things change over time, which most things do.

I asked the question not because I was in disagreement but because I had never heard of the term "Diminishing Marginal Growth" -- hence, as I stated, if its not a term of art, perhaps it needed definition. Likewise, I wasn't asking for any "justification" for your use of the term -- just some "definition" of the term so that I can be sure I understand what your saying. Of course, I am well aware of the principles of diminishing returns, but my understanding of those priniciples were not connecting with your "DME" -- especially in this context.

And I didn't pass my beliefs as facts. My belief is that black people are a "dying breed," but I only posted how they just aren't growing as fast as other groups, specifically hispanics.

On this black board:

Is black people formally being the largest minority group but now it's hispanic in dispute?

Is black people being victims of murder at a higher rate than the general public in dispute? And the secondary assertion being black people are the primary murderers of black people, hence the intra-group reference.

Is black people having a higher abortion rate than the general public in dispute?

Is black people having higher incidence of diabetes and cancers than the general public in dispute? And the secondary assertion here being that it's linked to diet.​

This is precisely why I was looking for a source. I understand that we are no longer a larger minority than Hispanics, but apparently I have been laboring under the mistaken assumption that such is the case because of massive immigration the last 20 years or so?

It's not my fault that black people are rarely the focus on this black board.

I try to bump threads speaking of black issues with updates . . .

I think its all about black people. I don't think that there are "white issues" or any other issues for that matter -- that don't affect black people, one way or another, hence, in my lowly opinion -- ALL issues are about the great diversity of people we call black.

Moreover, I appreciate the bumps and new threads as well -- as I take them all (well, most of them all) as us from different perspectives educating us.

[1]And bringing it back to the topic of this thread, you think the Democratic Party doesn't notice the trends in the black community?

[2]The Democratic Party is moving on. They gave black people the policies to murder themselves and sucked them dry in the meanwhile.

What did black people get in return? The only thing I see is an abundance of inter-generational poverty.

[1] I think both parties, for what they're worth notice us and how we're trending -- which, in part, is why I truly don't give a shit about either. I had an experience once that had a lot to do with shaping my "Party" opinions.

With your indulgence, I will slightly alter the facts and names -- but I was once involved in the trial of case with co-counsel who was soon to be a candidate for a very high office. I thought the would-be candidate (the "WBC") and I saw the issues pretty much the same. The state was just about in the throes of the primary election and the WBC was virtually assured of winning the democratic primary and but there was a serious question (1) whether he could best the guy who appeared to be leading in the republican primiary; and (2) it appeared to me at least that if we engaged in a cross-over campaign, there stood the chance that our vote could help propel the lesser republican -- which would leave WBC with an easier (though still very difficult) run in the general election.

One day during a break in the action, I proposed the cross-over idea (i.e., democrats vote in the republican primary instead of the democratic primary). I was first astonished and amazed at WBC's response, but what surprised me even further was how quickly (almost simultaneously) that I had gone into the "N" mode.

WBC said, "Why educate em." "They (the masses, white but especially black) were accustomed to voting democrat" so why teach them about crossing-over (in primary elections) because, presumably, they might not necessarily return. I lost all the got damn cool I had, if I ever had any. To preserve the anonymity of the moment, suffice to say, I had to take notes, shake hands and eat the rest and remainder of the trial, left handed.​

From that day forward, I give great credence to a statement I had read attributed to the great racist and former governor of Alabama, George C. Wallace commenting on democratic and republican parties, "there ain't a dime's worth of difference between them." And I believe that.

[2] I will comment on that statement, later. Gotta go. Its my day to pick up my son from school.