Judas and the Black Messiah (discussion)
- Thread starter keone
- Start date
Jay-Z & Nipsey Hussle Collab Highlights ‘Judas and the Black Messiah’ Soundtrack
The jam-packed project also features music from Black Thought, Nas, Rakim, and more.
2dopeboyz.com
The toughest part of the movie is knowing how it ends but still hoping for something different. This is an important movie though for sure
fuck these coalitions and integration
each race should focus and look after their own.
each race should focus and look after their own.
COINTELPRO -- Black Nationalist Hate Groups (1967-1971)
INTRODUCTION
The purpose of this new counterintelligence endeavor is to expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit, or otherwise neutralize the activities of black nationalist, hate-type organizations and groupings, their leadership, spokesmen, membership, and supporters, and to counter their propensity for violence and civil disorder.
The pernicious background of such groups, their duplicity, and devious maneuvers must be exposed to public scrutiny where such publicity will have a neutralizing effect. Efforts of the various groups to consolidate their forces or to recruit new or youthful adherents must be frustrated. No opportunity should be missed to exploit through counterintelligence techniques the organizational and personal conflicts of the leaderships of the groups and where possible an effort should be made to capitalize upon existing conflicts between competing black nationalist organizations. When an opportunity is apparant to disrupt or neutralize black nationalist, hate-type organizations through the cooperation of established local news media contacts or through such contact with sources available to the Seat of Government, in every instance careful attention must be given to the proposal to insure the targeted group is disrupted, ridiculed, or discredited through the publicity and not merely publicized.
Intensified attention under this program should be afforded to the activities of such groups as the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, Revolutionary Action Movement, the Deacons for Defense and Justice, Congress of Racial Equality, and the Nation of Islam. Particular emphasis should be given to extremists who direct the activities and policies of revolutionary or militant groups such as Stokely Carmichael, H. "Rap" Brown, Elijah Muhammad, and Maxwell Stanford. Director to 23 Field Offices, Aug. 26, 1967 2/?
The Counterintelligence Program is now being expanded to include 41 offices. ... For maximum effectiveness of the Counterintelligence Program, and to prevent wasted effort, long range goals are being set.
1. Prevent the coalition of militant black nationalist groups. In unity there is strength; a truism that is no less valid for all its triteness. An effective coalition of black nationalist groups might be the first step toward a real "Mau Mau" in America, the beginning of a true black revolution.
2. Prevent the rise of a "messiah" who could unify, and electrify, the militant black nationalist movement. Malcolm X might have been such a "messiah;" he is the martyr of the movement today. Martin Luther King, Stokely Carmichael and Elijah Muhammed all aspire to this position. Elijah Muhammed is less of a threat because of his age. King could be a very real contender for this position should he abandon his supposed "obedience" to "white, liberal doctrines" (nonviolence) and embrace black nationalism. Carmichael has the necessary charisma to be a real threat in this way.
3. Prevent violence on the part of black nationalist groups. This is of primary importance, and is, of course, a goal of our investigative activity; it should also be a goal of the Counterintelligence Program. Through counterintelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential troublemakers and neutralize them before they exercise their potential for violence.
4. Prevent militant black nationalist groups and leaders from gaining respectability, by discrediting them to three separate segments of the community. The goal of discrediting black nationalists must be handled tactically in three ways. You must discredit these groups and individuals to, first, the responsible Negro community. Second, they must be discredited to the white community, both the responsible community and to "liberals" who have vestiges of sympathy for militant black nationalists simply because they are Negroes. Third, these groups must be discredited in the eyes of Negro radicals, the followers of the movement. This last area requires entirely different tactics from the first two. Publicity about violent tendencies and radical statements merely enhances black nationalists black nationalists to the last group; it adds "respectability" in a different way.
5. A final goal should be to prevent the long-range growth of militant black nationalist organizations, especially among youth. Specific tactics to prevent these groups from converting young people must be developed. (sent by Director to Field Offices on March 4, 1968)
G.C. Moore to W.C. Sullivan, Feb. 29, 1968
NEUTRALIZING INDIVIDUAL LEADERS
Fred Hampton
On November 19, 1969, CG T-1, who has furnished reliable information in the past, advised that allegedly the following items are being kept in the first-floor apartment at 2337 West Monroe Street, Chicago: 5 carbines with 50,000 rounds of ammunition; 1 case of 30 shot clips for the carbines; 3 gas masks; 3 smoke bombs, non-explosive type; 2 or more loud speakers; 5 Ithaca riot shot guns plus ammunition; 4 38 revolvers, plus ammunition; 1 357 magnum, plus ammunition... Black Panther Party (BPP), Nov. 21, 1969
A detailed inventory of the weapons and also a detailed floor plan of the apartment were furnished to local authorities. In addition, the identities of BPP members utilizing the apartment at the above address were furnished. This information was not available from any other source and subsequently proved to be of tremendous value in that is subsequently saved injury and possible death to police officers participating in the raid at the address on the morning of 12/4/69. The raid was based on information furnished by informant. During the resistance by the BPP members at the time of the raid, the Chairman of the Illinois Chapter, BPP, FRED HAMPTON, was killed and a BPP leader from Peoria, Illinois, [Mark Clark] was also killed. It is felt that this information is of considerable value in consideration of a special payment for informant requested in re Chicago letter.
SAC, Chicago to Director, Dec. 12, 1969
Stokely Carmichael
It is suggested that consideration be given to convey the impression that CARMICHAEL is a CIA informant. One method of accomplishing the above would be to have a carbon copy of informant report reportedly written by CARMICHAEL to the CIA carefully deposited in the automobile of a close Black Nationalist friend. The report should be so placed that it will be readily seen. It is hoped that when the informant report is read it will help promote distrust between CARMICHAEL and the Black Community. It is suggested that carbon copy of report be used to indicate that CARMICHAEL turned original copy into CIA and kept carbon copy for himself. It is also suggested that we inform a certain percentage of reliable criminal and racial informants that "we heard from reliable sources that CARMICHAEL is a CIA agent". It is hoped that these informants would spread the rumor in various large Negro communities across the land.
Fragment of FBU Memorandum, July 10, 1968
Dick Gregory
Chicago airtel and [?] dated 5/2/68 and captioned "Richard Claxton Gregory" concern a speech by Gregory on 4/28/68 where he noted that "Syndicate hoods (are living all over. [sic] They are the filthiest snakes that exist on this earth." Referenced Bulet instructed you to develop counterintelligence action concerning militant black nationalist Dick Gregory. Consider the use of this statement in developing a counterintelligence operation to alert La Cosa Nostra (LCN) to Gregory's attack on LCN. It is noted that other speeches by Gregory also contain attacks on the LCN.
Director to SAC, Chicago, May 15, 1968
Nation of Islam
Africans who express particular interest in the Islamic movement among U.S. negroes should be discreetly discouraged from making contact with either the United African Nationalist Movement or the Temple of Islam (Elijah Muhammad). If asked, posts should point out that these organizations are, in fact, "pseudo-Moslem" rather than genuinely religious movements and are just as racialist [sic] in their approach as some of the more extreme anti-Negro movements in the South.
"Islamic Negro Groups in the United States," State Dept Instruction to 75 Diplomatic Posts in Africa and Central Asia, Feb. 15, 1960
Over the years considerable thought has been given, and action taken with Bureau approval, relating to methods through which the NOI could be discredited in the eyes of the general black populace or through which factionalism among the leadership could be created. Serious consideration has also been given towards developing ways and means of changing NOI philosophy to one whereby the members could be developed into useful citizens and the organization developed into one emphasizing religion - the brotherhood of mankind - and self improvement. Factional disputes have been developed - the most notable being MALCOLM X LITTLE.
SAC, Chicago to Director, Jan. 22, 1969
INTRODUCTION
The purpose of this new counterintelligence endeavor is to expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit, or otherwise neutralize the activities of black nationalist, hate-type organizations and groupings, their leadership, spokesmen, membership, and supporters, and to counter their propensity for violence and civil disorder.
The pernicious background of such groups, their duplicity, and devious maneuvers must be exposed to public scrutiny where such publicity will have a neutralizing effect. Efforts of the various groups to consolidate their forces or to recruit new or youthful adherents must be frustrated. No opportunity should be missed to exploit through counterintelligence techniques the organizational and personal conflicts of the leaderships of the groups and where possible an effort should be made to capitalize upon existing conflicts between competing black nationalist organizations. When an opportunity is apparant to disrupt or neutralize black nationalist, hate-type organizations through the cooperation of established local news media contacts or through such contact with sources available to the Seat of Government, in every instance careful attention must be given to the proposal to insure the targeted group is disrupted, ridiculed, or discredited through the publicity and not merely publicized.
Intensified attention under this program should be afforded to the activities of such groups as the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, Revolutionary Action Movement, the Deacons for Defense and Justice, Congress of Racial Equality, and the Nation of Islam. Particular emphasis should be given to extremists who direct the activities and policies of revolutionary or militant groups such as Stokely Carmichael, H. "Rap" Brown, Elijah Muhammad, and Maxwell Stanford. Director to 23 Field Offices, Aug. 26, 1967 2/?
The Counterintelligence Program is now being expanded to include 41 offices. ... For maximum effectiveness of the Counterintelligence Program, and to prevent wasted effort, long range goals are being set.
1. Prevent the coalition of militant black nationalist groups. In unity there is strength; a truism that is no less valid for all its triteness. An effective coalition of black nationalist groups might be the first step toward a real "Mau Mau" in America, the beginning of a true black revolution.
2. Prevent the rise of a "messiah" who could unify, and electrify, the militant black nationalist movement. Malcolm X might have been such a "messiah;" he is the martyr of the movement today. Martin Luther King, Stokely Carmichael and Elijah Muhammed all aspire to this position. Elijah Muhammed is less of a threat because of his age. King could be a very real contender for this position should he abandon his supposed "obedience" to "white, liberal doctrines" (nonviolence) and embrace black nationalism. Carmichael has the necessary charisma to be a real threat in this way.
3. Prevent violence on the part of black nationalist groups. This is of primary importance, and is, of course, a goal of our investigative activity; it should also be a goal of the Counterintelligence Program. Through counterintelligence it should be possible to pinpoint potential troublemakers and neutralize them before they exercise their potential for violence.
4. Prevent militant black nationalist groups and leaders from gaining respectability, by discrediting them to three separate segments of the community. The goal of discrediting black nationalists must be handled tactically in three ways. You must discredit these groups and individuals to, first, the responsible Negro community. Second, they must be discredited to the white community, both the responsible community and to "liberals" who have vestiges of sympathy for militant black nationalists simply because they are Negroes. Third, these groups must be discredited in the eyes of Negro radicals, the followers of the movement. This last area requires entirely different tactics from the first two. Publicity about violent tendencies and radical statements merely enhances black nationalists black nationalists to the last group; it adds "respectability" in a different way.
5. A final goal should be to prevent the long-range growth of militant black nationalist organizations, especially among youth. Specific tactics to prevent these groups from converting young people must be developed. (sent by Director to Field Offices on March 4, 1968)
G.C. Moore to W.C. Sullivan, Feb. 29, 1968
NEUTRALIZING INDIVIDUAL LEADERS
Fred Hampton
On November 19, 1969, CG T-1, who has furnished reliable information in the past, advised that allegedly the following items are being kept in the first-floor apartment at 2337 West Monroe Street, Chicago: 5 carbines with 50,000 rounds of ammunition; 1 case of 30 shot clips for the carbines; 3 gas masks; 3 smoke bombs, non-explosive type; 2 or more loud speakers; 5 Ithaca riot shot guns plus ammunition; 4 38 revolvers, plus ammunition; 1 357 magnum, plus ammunition... Black Panther Party (BPP), Nov. 21, 1969
A detailed inventory of the weapons and also a detailed floor plan of the apartment were furnished to local authorities. In addition, the identities of BPP members utilizing the apartment at the above address were furnished. This information was not available from any other source and subsequently proved to be of tremendous value in that is subsequently saved injury and possible death to police officers participating in the raid at the address on the morning of 12/4/69. The raid was based on information furnished by informant. During the resistance by the BPP members at the time of the raid, the Chairman of the Illinois Chapter, BPP, FRED HAMPTON, was killed and a BPP leader from Peoria, Illinois, [Mark Clark] was also killed. It is felt that this information is of considerable value in consideration of a special payment for informant requested in re Chicago letter.
SAC, Chicago to Director, Dec. 12, 1969
Stokely Carmichael
It is suggested that consideration be given to convey the impression that CARMICHAEL is a CIA informant. One method of accomplishing the above would be to have a carbon copy of informant report reportedly written by CARMICHAEL to the CIA carefully deposited in the automobile of a close Black Nationalist friend. The report should be so placed that it will be readily seen. It is hoped that when the informant report is read it will help promote distrust between CARMICHAEL and the Black Community. It is suggested that carbon copy of report be used to indicate that CARMICHAEL turned original copy into CIA and kept carbon copy for himself. It is also suggested that we inform a certain percentage of reliable criminal and racial informants that "we heard from reliable sources that CARMICHAEL is a CIA agent". It is hoped that these informants would spread the rumor in various large Negro communities across the land.
Fragment of FBU Memorandum, July 10, 1968
Dick Gregory
Chicago airtel and [?] dated 5/2/68 and captioned "Richard Claxton Gregory" concern a speech by Gregory on 4/28/68 where he noted that "Syndicate hoods (are living all over. [sic] They are the filthiest snakes that exist on this earth." Referenced Bulet instructed you to develop counterintelligence action concerning militant black nationalist Dick Gregory. Consider the use of this statement in developing a counterintelligence operation to alert La Cosa Nostra (LCN) to Gregory's attack on LCN. It is noted that other speeches by Gregory also contain attacks on the LCN.
Director to SAC, Chicago, May 15, 1968
Nation of Islam
Africans who express particular interest in the Islamic movement among U.S. negroes should be discreetly discouraged from making contact with either the United African Nationalist Movement or the Temple of Islam (Elijah Muhammad). If asked, posts should point out that these organizations are, in fact, "pseudo-Moslem" rather than genuinely religious movements and are just as racialist [sic] in their approach as some of the more extreme anti-Negro movements in the South.
"Islamic Negro Groups in the United States," State Dept Instruction to 75 Diplomatic Posts in Africa and Central Asia, Feb. 15, 1960
Over the years considerable thought has been given, and action taken with Bureau approval, relating to methods through which the NOI could be discredited in the eyes of the general black populace or through which factionalism among the leadership could be created. Serious consideration has also been given towards developing ways and means of changing NOI philosophy to one whereby the members could be developed into useful citizens and the organization developed into one emphasizing religion - the brotherhood of mankind - and self improvement. Factional disputes have been developed - the most notable being MALCOLM X LITTLE.
SAC, Chicago to Director, Jan. 22, 1969
Pretty much. Was a phenomenal performance. Fuck all other performances Daniel Kaluuya needs to win something for his role.
Everything you said makes sense except there may not have been enough time to add all that. Probably had a good idea how long they wanted the movie to be.
like i've been saying since day one and the clowns will spin shit online to suit their narrative ,any person with half a brain knew what Kaluya was talking about
Michael Harriot always with the legendary threads, i collect all of them on theaderapp
Last edited:
they've been exposed for what they are...
Last edited:
100%!! Even in the interview, he said he "stood for something" and that he was in the fight. Then right after he saw the documentary and realized that he profited monetarily by playing an instrumental part in killing a movement and ending the life of a young man with so much potential, the weight of reality and guilt was too much to bear.
Wrong.
So Ryan coogler and his wife approached Daniel kaluuya about Judas in the black Messiah. Dope oh. I didn't know Ryan coogler wife was involved in the business
100 facts
I would argue that most white people go through life with few if any negative interactions with black people. Nothing that fit the narrative they've been fed their entire life , yet they hate us.
They hear or are told one black negative and somehow we are ALL thugs, dealers, bangers, rapists and criminals
Few black people can say that they have few if any negative interactions with white people
I'm watching the 1973 movie "Ssssssss" last night and the herpetologist doctor Who is one of the main characters in the movie said this about snakes:
"The fear that most people have of snakes is based on the same misunderstanding that they have about any other minority group.
If they are told that one member is harmful and they generalizing believe they are all dangerous. It's so stupid"
When I heard that I immediately thought about Judas and the black Messiah.
White people have been told/taught to fear black and brown people by other white people.
The scary black man. They are thieves. They are rapists. They are murderers. They are drug dealers. Same thing Donald Trump said about Mexicans.
They sum up of all Black and brown people in three or four quick sentences.
They couldn't be more wrong.
The problem is, They don't want to get it right. They don't want to see us for who we are, which is not much different than them.
-We want nice and safe housing.
-We want to raise our children in safe communities
- we want to make enough money to provide for our family
- we want to have some money left over to have some of the wants (TV, Video games, nice clothes, car) to enjoy the fruits of our labor.
- you want to be able to provide for our children's future
What we don't have, as most black people, is the hate. The blind hate that white people have for us that's so many people have towards snakes
to put it in the context of the movie I just watched, white people hate snakes. A black person will look at a snake with a side eye. Not hate it, but be wary of it. And that is the difference between our two races.
Now, many of us if not most of us DISTRUST White people. Considering the our interactions with them it's understood. Our hatred is grown and earned based upon actual events. (This white bitch lied at me on my job trying to get me fired) But we don't hate as they hate, based solely on the THOUGHT or the existence of White people.
Last edited:
So far Fred Jr. has raised over 300K to turn the Hampton House into a Black Panther museum. There is an abandoned house right next door that was fire damaged back since the 80s. I guy I went to HS with lived in that house next door and his little brother died in the fire 
. So I hope Fred Jr. can get that property as well and turn it into a park or a community garden.
. So I hope Fred Jr. can get that property as well and turn it into a park or a community garden.
Why yall only get mad when a film comes out? (some of yall)
Really yall need to be mad all day everyday.
The shit is going on right now as we speak, even worse. Somewhere, close to you.
Really yall need to be mad all day everyday.
The shit is going on right now as we speak, even worse. Somewhere, close to you.
So far Fred Jr. has raised over 300K to turn the Hampton House into a Black Panther museum. There is an abandoned house right next door that was fire damaged back since the 80s. I guy I went to HS with lived in that house next door and his little brother died in the fire
That's cool, have you donated?
I will with labor, community involvement, and funds. Will you?
It’s weird how MANY people are uncredited in this one — and shit I gotta watch that shit again because THE LADY OF RAGE must have seen the DOCTOR OF COSMETIC SURGERY bec it’s been like 42 years since “Afro Puffs”
Nah for real there were a lot of familiar faces but anybody catch what scenes she was in?
Nah for real there were a lot of familiar faces but anybody catch what scenes she was in?
I am wondering if they will ever make a movie about Elijah Muhammad?
Last edited: