Its the "Local" Jihadist to Worry About

QueEx

Rising Star
Super Moderator

The Advantages (to Al Qaeda) of Native-Born Jihadists


". . . should another attack occur in Italy, Britain or the United States, the perpetrator likely
will be someone who was born and raised in the country and lived among his victims . . .


STRATFOR
Intelligence Brief
August 25, 2005


The devices used by the four perpetrators of the July 7 London Underground bombings were triggered by a switch similar to a button, Britain's Guardian newspaper reported Aug. 24, citing Senior British police officials. The July 21 attackers also used bombs designed for manual detonation, although those malfunctioned, the sources reported. In other words, in both cases, those who carried the backpack bombs were willing suicide bombers -- and completely cognizant of their actions.

The fact that these bombers were willing and anxious to die for the jihadist cause demonstrates that jihadist ideology has no regional boundary and that its power can supersede the Western cultural imprint. Of the four bombers, all but one was born in Britain. The other, Germaine Lindsay, was born in Jamaica, but became a long-time British resident. All four -- Lindsay, Hasib Hussain, Mohammad Sidique Khan and Shehzad Tanweer -- grew up in working-class Britain, were well-liked by their neighbors and, like many young British men, were football fans. Lindsay was married and reportedly expecting his second child.

The U.S. population includes many young men with similar backgrounds: Muslims, or converts to Islam, who where born in the United States, often to immigrant parents from the Middle East or South Asia. The so-called Virginia Jihad Network centered around Falls Church, Va., included such members. Of its 11 members, several have been prosecuted and convicted of terrorism-related activities. Other U.S. citizens, such as John Walker Lindh, a young man from California who joined the Taliban in Afghanistan, have demonstrated willingness to die for the jihadist cause. Lindh was captured by U.S. forces during combat operations in Mazar-e-Sharif during 2001. In February, Ahmed Omar Abu Ali, a 23-year-old from Falls Church, was indicted by the U.S. government in connection with an alleged plot to assassinate U.S. President George W. Bush. According to the indictment, Abu Ali joined al Qaeda around September 2002 after traveling to Saudi Arabia. Abu Ali had been extradited from Saudi Arabia, where he was being held in connection with terrorist activities in the kingdom. Given Ali's grandiose aspirations, it is almost certain that he would have died for the jihadist cause if the opportunity presented itself.

The London bombers, Lindh, Ali and others such as Jose Padilla, Richard Reid and Jack Roche are disaffected members of Western society operating on the periphery of al Qaeda, which has been known to latch on to ne'er-do-wells and lone wolves. Some, like Lindh and Padilla, were relatively recent converts to Islam and were not raised as Muslims, but took on the jihadist cause for their own reasons, possibly derived from feelings of alienation from their peers or society. Such native-born jihadists are attractive to al Qaeda for suicide missions in Europe or the United States because of their ability to blend in with their victims until the end.

Jihadist groups have demonstrated the ability to recruit willing suicide bombers from Western capitals -- the core of Western society -- and the conditions that are conducive to such recruitment are unlikely to change significantly in the near future. Moreover, as Western governments tighten security on immigrants -- and expel problematic foreigners -- native-born sympathizers are becoming even more attractive to jihadist planners.

Therefore, should another attack occur in Italy, Britain or the United States, the perpetrator likely will be someone who was born and raised in the country and lived among his victims -- until the last second.
Send questions or comments on this article to analysis@stratfor.com.
 
Oh now, what am i gonna do.

No more corn beef from musahafa.

No more gas from muhamad.

No more beer from ahada!!!

Seriously if they are here already I'm fucked, they run my gas station, every convienent store out to solon, and my boy on harvard makes the fattest cornbeefs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, most their kids, teenage males that help them, seem like they love it here. They tell the hoes they are rican. I dont see them blowing me up anytime soon.

Believe or not I have a couple of clients whose people are from palestine, pakistan, and india, muthafuckas are cool as fuck. They just want to be like us.

They just want some money, women and some pecs and six pack abs. I can't see some of these cats blowing me up.

Maybe its the ones in the outwards suburbs where white folks make them feel unwelcome.

I dont know many arabs/indians/pakastans/ that dont come from people that own shit.

Maybe the ones who dont own shit AND were in the wrong areas could wind up into some terror shit. We see white poeple becoming goths and acting crazy cause they can't fit in, it might be the same way for arabs THAT are in white communities.

I dont see that around here.

What am I supposed to believe, the 19 year old arab driving the 06 charger, helping pops run the store wants to blow me to shit? Just cause binny was bored with money doesnt mean everybody is. There is always a pat tillman somewhere.

But I guess if you were and arab in hudson(white suburb) you might think bout blowing some shit up with all the looks you probaly get.
 
I knew it, I've been telling people this, the next attack that occurs is going to have Americans in on it, Americans like Jose Padilla, that can walk around the streets without any attention and protected with American constitutional rights, while we've got people in America fighting for terrorists to have rights, these same terrorists are working on murdering as many of us as possible, especially the liberals fighting for adbullah the terrorist to have a fair trial. :cool:
 
gene cisco said:
Believe or not I have a couple of clients whose people are from palestine, pakistan, and india, muthafuckas are cool as fuck. They just want to be like us.

They just want some money, women and some pecs and six pack abs. I can't see some of these cats blowing me up.

Maybe its the ones in the outwards suburbs where white folks make them feel unwelcome.

Those aren't the people to really worry about, in America Muslims are not allowed to preach Jihad out loud, where in Europe you have these Muslim fanatics holding rallies in parks, and preaching death to the west in their mosques, here in the States those rallies would get shut down as well as those Mosques, Englad just now is starting to crack down on their jihadists, I think the Muslims that would join Bin Ladens movement would be converted Americans, like John Walker Lindh and Jose Padilla, mainly because converts get way more into the religion that natural born muslims, and a white American terrorist would be invaluable to Al Qaeda, he would be able to go anywhere and have access to almost anything, whereas a Libyan-American named Omar would still get funny looks, even if he was born and raised in Milwaukee Wisconsin.
 
Gods_Favorite said:
I knew it, I've been telling people this, the next attack that occurs is going to have Americans in on it, Americans like Jose Padilla, that can walk around the streets
That could happen, but ...
Gods_Favorite said:
... while we've got people in America fighting for terrorists to have rights, these same terrorists are working on murdering as many of us as possible, especially the liberals fighting for adbullah the terrorist to have a fair trial. :cool:
... here is where our agreement parts. We have a precarious situation: how to deal with the enemy - without losing what we say we are. Some say that suspending civil liberties to get at the terrorists is falling into the hands of the terrorists. I think its deeper than that: there is no liberty to protect if liberty doesn't exist in the first place.

What am I saying??? You have to keep the system "FAIR" for everyone if we are going to have a FAIR SYSTEM. As a Black man, I know all too damn well what results when the so-called Fair System -- ain't so damn Fair, after all. IF a terrorists has rights, they must be protected and the legal system must be allowed to deal with them. IF they have no rights, then there are none to be protected. But denying those rights exposes us all, sooner or later, to a denial of rights.

QueEx
 
Are Liberties are already gone. What they are doing now is prepping you for an domestic terrorist because when that goes down that is going to be there excuse for unwarrented searches, seizures, and imprisonment.

Peace
 

United States: Taking A Closer Look at Hizb al-Tahrir


STRATFOR
Terrorism Brief
August 26, 2005

The Los Angeles Times reported Aug. 24 that the FBI is looking into the activities of Iyad Hilal, a 56-year-old local Muslim entrepreneur in Orange County, Calif., who is considered the U.S. leader of a transnational radical Islamist group that seeks to re-establish an international caliphate. The FBI, the newspaper reported, is not conducting an "investigation," but wants to learn more about Hilal and his group, the Hizb al-Tahrir (HT), or Party of Liberation. Hilal's name first surfaced in a Fox News report alleging that Hilal had ties to the group responsible for the July 7 London bombings.

That Hilal is associated with HT is accurate, but the nature of his involvement, the status of the group in the United States and the question of whether it is a terrorist group all warrant closer scrutiny. Moreover, what seems incongruous about this inquiry is that HT had a significant, growing presence in the United States during the early 1990s, but its activities did not garner the level of attention the group is now getting from the U.S. government. Now that the group has been reduced to a few members scattered across the United States, with no visible structure or activities, its activities are being scrutinized.

The FBI -- at least some field offices -- has been aware of HT's presence in the United States since early 1994 at least, though whether that information was shared with the Orange County office is unclear. What is certain is that, in the aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks, intense debate has taken place in Washington regarding the status of the group -- and it has not been placed on the State Department's list of terrorist organizations. In fact, HT and the jihadists have serious political, ideological and sectarian disagreements.

The United Kingdom, home to the world's most vibrant HT branch, said recently it would ban HT because its rhetoric incites violence. Germany and Pakistan also recently banned the group, and it has been banned in the Middle East and Central Asia for quite some time. The group's policy, however, does restrict it to holding study circles, organizing small-scale conventions, and publishing and distributing material. In fact, the group's practice of engaging in radical rhetoric but not acting upon it has caused many young members -- who consider it all talk and no action -- to leave HT for more militant organizations over the years.

Hilal, a U.S. citizen of Palestinian background, has been in the United States for 20 years. He is involved in the grocery business, but also has written a number of books. Though some media have called him a "philosopher," he appears more of an ideologue. Educated in the Islamic sciences, Hilal obtained a master's degree in Islamic jurisprudence from a Saudi university and has been associated with HT from the days of his youth. He was the HT leader during its heyday in the United States and as such would shuttle between New York and Orange County, where the group had its two main offices. He also oversaw the organizing of conferences in the Chicago area and the group's various publications -- most prominently the magazine/journal Khalifornia. Hilal also served as imam of a mosque in New York from around 1991 to about 1995.

By 1995, the group's New York chapter suffered a major setback when many members, and people participating in the group's study circles, left HT over ideological disagreements and Hilal's leadership. In 1997, the global group splintered when certain senior members of the party's politburo in Jordan, under the leadership of Abu Rami, ousted its then worldwide leader Abdel-Qadeem Zalloum. The splinter group eventually foundered as Zalloum succeeded in containing the renegades and maintaining control of a majority of the members and branches.

That split, however, took a toll on various branches of the party, including the one in the United States, which by then had seen many of its leading activists in New York move to join al-Muhajiroun -- another, now-defunct offshoot of HT founded in Britain in 1996. Hilal himself, according to sources knowledgeable about HT's internal wrangling, in the beginning had rushed to join the renegade group, but shortly thereafter tried to return to the original faction, where he was rejected.

Following his ouster from the main group, Hilal purportedly began trying to revive HT by bringing together various party members from around the world who remained committed to the group's ideology but had been inactive. While this process was in motion, the Sept. 11 attacks took place -- and the ensuing hunt for radical Islamists brought the party under increasing pressure in the United States. It is unclear today whether Hilal ever was able to regain leadership of the organization in the United States, or even whether a true organizational structure exists.

Meanwhile, by the turn of the new millennium, HT had lost the battle of ideas within the U.S. Muslim community. Mainstream Muslim organizations successfully contained HT's growth by rejecting the HT position that Muslims should interact with society but not indulge in democratic politics. HT had lobbied hard against such political activism because it deems such actions as un-Islamic.

It is too soon to say what the FBI inquiry in Orange County will turn up, but so far the bureau appears to be following standard procedure, in which an initial inquiry is opened up to determine whether there is evidence that a law has been violated. If such evidence is uncovered, then an official investigation will be opened.

In the early 1990s, HT successfully exploited freedom of expression to expand its presence in the West. In 2005, the HT argument continues to be that, although its ideas might be radical, its right to express them remains.
 
I don't know what "local" jihadist are but our prisons are breeding grounds for terrorist. Add that to porous borders and disenfranchised young people and it could spell trouble for America. I have to give the government credit though they have prevented another major attack on U.S. soil and I don't think anything close to 9-11 will happen in the forseeable future, instead I predict a gradual erosion of our security due to dumbass politicians, greedy corprorations and apathy among government workers, if anything I would say this group is the biggest threat to America's future.
 
QueEx said:
That could happen, but ...

... here is where our agreement parts. We have a precarious situation: how to deal with the enemy - without losing what we say we are. Some say that suspending civil liberties to get at the terrorists is falling into the hands of the terrorists. I think its deeper than that: there is no liberty to protect if liberty doesn't exist in the first place.

What am I saying??? You have to keep the system "FAIR" for everyone if we are going to have a FAIR SYSTEM. As a Black man, I know all too damn well what results when the so-called Fair System -- ain't so damn Fair, after all. <u>IF</u> a terrorists has rights, they <u>must</u> be protected and the legal system must be allowed to deal with them. IF they have no rights, then there are none to be protected. But denying those rights exposes us all, sooner or later, to a denial of rights.

QueEx

I agree that everyone has to have fair rights, but I still disagree with treating a foreign terrorist different than an American terrorist? why should Abdullah get special treatment because he was born in Detroit when Osama was from Saudi and got the kitchen sink tossed at him? I say fuck all terrorists, and if theres any proof that they have links to terrorist organizations, or were plotting some shit, send them to Guantanamo Bay with the rest of the jihadi fucks. :mad:
 
Gods_Favorite said:
I agree that everyone has to have fair rights, but I still disagree with treating a foreign terrorist different than an American terrorist? why should Abdullah get special treatment because he was born in Detroit when Osama was from Saudi and got the kitchen sink tossed at him? I say fuck all terrorists, and if theres any proof that they have links to terrorist organizations, or were plotting some shit, send them to Guantanamo Bay with the rest of the jihadi fucks. :mad:
GF, I understand your anger, but think about it: taking "accused" American citizens to Gitmo and thereby denying constitutional protections is no different from picking brothers up off the corner on some bullshit charge and holding them without a hearing to determine whether they belong there in the first place. When the constitution is suspended so that government can do the former (Americans to Gitmo) nothing really prevents it from doing the latter (holding Americans in American jails without a hearing).

QueEx
 
Que is right. to many times innocents get caught in a witch hunt and that is what the constitution is here for.

People watch to many epeisodes of hunter and think criminals get off. Money buys justice, flat out. The constitution keeps things kinda fair.

Lets not panic, trust me. If any terror suspect gets a public defender he is fucked anyway, guilty or not. LOL

Dont let FOX tell you anybody gets it easy in our justice system without money, its a lie.

There is alot of pressure for anybody charged with a crime to accept a "deal", innocent or not. If they have evidence, present it. No need to hold somebody without an attorney or chraging them, that is not what this country was based on.

Once we allow them to do that to terror suspects, who is next GF!???!??!?!?

Probaly yo black ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111
 

Don't Ignore Western Europe, Terrorism Expert Warns U.S.


Many Muslims Are Alienated by Multicultural Continent's
Inability to Assimilate Them, Dean at Johns Hopkins Says



By Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, September 8, 2005; Page A09

Western Europe is a core recruiting ground for Muslim terrorists that is being overlooked given the U.S. focus on Iraq and the Middle East, according to Francis Fukuyama, academic dean of Johns Hopkins University's Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies.

The failure of European countries to assimilate their large and growing Muslim populations in the era of globalization has caused an alienation among the young that has created a "hard core for terrorism," Fukuyama said in Washington at a bipartisan policy forum on terrorism and security, sponsored by the New America Foundation.

"Fixing the Middle East is only part of the problem. It is a West European problem, too," Fukuyama said. He pointed out that the leaders of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks came out of a cell in Hamburg and that most of the extremists participating in the more recent bombings in Spain and England were born in those countries.

Fukuyama's analysis squares with recent CIA conclusions about the importance of Western Europe, where, as one former senior intelligence official put it yesterday, "there are 10 million Muslims . . . that are not integrated into their societies."

Fukuyama called this one area of the war against terrorism in which U.S. and European interests merge and joint cooperation has begun to be productive. The Europeans "need to understand American assimilation" because their approach of "multiculturalism has been a failure," Fukuyama said.

The security and terrorism conference drew more than 100 legislators, academics and former policymakers, who expressed a broad range of views and concerns about extremism and the strategies for confronting it.

University of Chicago Associate Professor Robert A. Pape, author of "Dying to Win," a book based on a study of 460 suicide bombers, told his audience that Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network decided two years ago to target Western European countries that had allied themselves with the United States in Iraq. Pape said Norwegian intelligence obtained a September 2003 document from a Web site reportedly affiliated with al Qaeda. The document discussed hitting Spain before its elections and, thereafter, the British, the Italians and the Poles, all of whom have had troops in Iraq.

In his book, Pape described the situation, saying: "Every suicide terrorist campaign has had a clear goal that is secular and political: to compel a modern democracy to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland."

Retired Army Col. Lawrence B. Wilkerson, who was the chief of staff of then-Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, described at the conference what he called the "rightful paranoia" that senior Bush administration policymakers have regarding the prospect that terrorists might somehow obtain nuclear, chemical or biological weapons.

"Katrina gives us no confidence," Wilkerson said, in U.S. preparations for a terrorist nuclear explosion in a major city. "I am 10 times more worried about what happens to civil liberties after that attack."

Wilkerson then drew the picture of Bush or a future president forced to act "to satisfy demands of the American people." He said the likely steps after such a dramatic attack would include "closed doors and closed borders . . . no foreign students at all" and would "make the Patriot Act pale," a reference to the post-Sept. 11 law designed to give law enforcement agencies more latitude to investigate would-be terrorists.

Princeton professor G. John Ikenberry criticized the Bush administration's counterterrorism policies, saying that U.S. unilateralism has become a "provocation and unsettling element in the world." His solution is "to rediscover bargaining with key allies."

An opposing view came from Rep. Jim Saxton (R-N.J.), chairman of the House Armed Services subcommittee on terrorism, who expressed strong support for the president's policies and praised the Pentagon's Special Forces as having "done more than any other group" to fight terrorism.

He called for a tougher policy on Iran, a country that he said "promotes radicalism, promotes terrorism." He said the United States should support groups inside and outside Iran that can "spread the cause of freedom" there.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...5090702087.html?referrer=email&referrer=email
 
instead I predict a gradual erosion of our security due to dumbass politicians, greedy corprorations and apathy among government workers, if anything I would say this group is the biggest threat to America's future.

ain't this the group that fucked things up in N.O.
 
QueEx said:
Western Europe is a core recruiting ground for Muslim terrorists that is being overlooked given the U.S. focus on Iraq and the Middle East, according to Francis Fukuyama, academic dean of Johns Hopkins University's Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies.

I already knew that, some of these European Muslims are in Iraq now fighting our troops, and are more fanatical then the Muslims born and raised in the Middle east, Western Europe needs to get their shit together before the chickens come home to roost.
 
While they're worried about the domestic jihadists, they should worry about the other domestic terrorists, too. Groups that have killed countless americans in the past 50 years and are known for bombing churches and burning homes in the name of their religion....
 
do you understand the difference between terrorist with international reach and the domestic kooks that are just anarchist?
 
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no, the capacity they have to wreck havoc. if you had to prioritize are you saying you would devote more or even equal resources to the domestic kooks rather than the ones that plan for 5 years to travel 10k miles to fly a plane into a building?

judging by your responses i already know the answer, but maybe you should analyze that and acknowledge whether or not the majority of americans feel that way, then you should acknowledge thats why people dont trust the left with national security.
 
vitrifier said:
While they're worried about the domestic jihadists, they should worry about the other domestic terrorists, too. Groups that have killed countless americans in the past 50 years and are known for bombing churches and burning homes in the name of their religion....

Greed is right, you have to look at the capacity and ability of each group, first of all the Muslim terror groups like Hezballah are backed by millions if not billions of dollars not to mention tyranical regimes like Syria and Iran, who give both money and Military training to these people. Groups like Al Qaeda have billionare Saudis like Bin Laden backing them, and covert assistance from countries who try to keep it under wraps, these groups are more of a potential danger than our domestic terrorists, what have these domestic terrorists done here besides the Oklahoma city bombing 10 years ago? whens the last time they did anything big? do they have the backing of any foreign governments? do they recieve training and millions of dollars in aid? shit the leader of the Aryan Nations died a week ago and they auctioned off his house and headquarters in Idaho, nobody in the AB had the money to come in and pick up that property, which shows major weakness.
 
Well, I think both are important to focus on, but for regular folks like me, in the middle of the country, away from any significant terrorist targets, I have very little to worry about Muslim terrorists.

I don't think the domestic terrorists are just 'kooks'. Was McVeigh just a 'kook'? Is the KKK a bunch of 'kooks' who just happened to kill thousands of black men in the past?

I know that in my back yard (almost literally) there are militia groups that exist nearly out in the open, stockpiling weapons and learning the same tactics international terrorists are learning. And even beyond that, in rural MN, there have been two major school killings, most significantly the one this spring by a confused Native American kid who for some reason identified with white nationalists. I've done enough undercover research to know that there is significant white nationalists and racist groups that are operating actively in my area. Hell, a white supremacist is running for city council (he ran for Mayor last time) and he works as a janitor at my school. Am I afraid of him, not really, but I would be if I knew he was working in my building. I'm often there at night, by myself, and there is a TON of explosive material in the lab that isn't really well-secured from janitors who have keys to the whole building. Doesn't he have a large capacity to wreak havok? He potentially has access to all of the chemistry labs at a major university, and thus access to a lot of hazardous materials that most others don't. In my eyes, he has the potential to do a significant deal of damage.

All I'm saying is, these international terrorists are really no different from the ones brewing in our backyards. The only difference is that those "muslims" are inherently evil and want to kill us all, right? What about the Christians that do, too?

I don't acknowledge any of what you said. I think that being able to point the finger at people that don't look like us or speak the same language, or go to the same church is important to a lot of people. I'd be willing to bet that there are domestic terrorists here that believe Muslim terrorists are evil and should have no access to weapons, but it's their DUTY to stockpile the same weapons Muslim terrorists use.

To me, they're the same.

It's like the difference between crack and crystal meth.
 
you don't need money to make a bomb. In the rural US you can find plenty of materials to kill thousands of people. And you can get it dirt cheap. It didn't take millions to hijack two planes and kill thousands of people. Financial backing doesn't mean shit.

The fact that there hasn't been a significant domestic terrorist act since 1995 doesn't comfort me, either. Or the fact that conservatives are making all of the decisions concerning our security.

You say Muhammad Whatava in bumblefuck Michigan should be treated like international terrorists, I say so should Bubba Hillbilly should too.
 
vitrifier said:
Well, I think both are important to focus on, but for regular folks like me, in the middle of the country, away from any significant terrorist targets, I have very little to worry about Muslim terrorists.

I don't think the domestic terrorists are just 'kooks'. Was McVeigh just a 'kook'? Is the KKK a bunch of 'kooks' who just happened to kill thousands of black men in the past?

I know that in my back yard (almost literally) there are militia groups that exist nearly out in the open, stockpiling weapons and learning the same tactics international terrorists are learning. And even beyond that, in rural MN, there have been two major school killings, most significantly the one this spring by a confused Native American kid who for some reason identified with white nationalists. I've done enough undercover research to know that there is significant white nationalists and racist groups that are operating actively in my area. Hell, a white supremacist is running for city council (he ran for Mayor last time) and he works as a janitor at my school. Am I afraid of him, not really, but I would be if I knew he was working in my building. I'm often there at night, by myself, and there is a TON of explosive material in the lab that isn't really well-secured from janitors who have keys to the whole building. Doesn't he have a large capacity to wreak havok? He potentially has access to all of the chemistry labs at a major university, and thus access to a lot of hazardous materials that most others don't. In my eyes, he has the potential to do a significant deal of damage.

All I'm saying is, these international terrorists are really no different from the ones brewing in our backyards. The only difference is that those "muslims" are inherently evil and want to kill us all, right? What about the Christians that do, too?

I don't acknowledge any of what you said. I think that being able to point the finger at people that don't look like us or speak the same language, or go to the same church is important to a lot of people. I'd be willing to bet that there are domestic terrorists here that believe Muslim terrorists are evil and should have no access to weapons, but it's their DUTY to stockpile the same weapons Muslim terrorists use.

To me, they're the same.

It's like the difference between crack and crystal meth.
you seem to be implying that we are saying one or the other has to be important.

i asked you how you would divy up resources between the 2 which implies that both deserve at least some attention.

this is pretty much the same argument from when the memo came out that the bush adminstration view left wing groups more likely to work with islamic terrorist than right wingers. predictably that thread turned into a "bush dont see right wingers as threats AT ALL."

no one is implying right wingers are not dangerous. i specifically brought up their capacity to carry out attacks against the national interest, not their potential to create mayhem.

international terrorism doesnt have to just come here to carry out an attack. we have to worry about our assets in 100 different countries being destroyed as well.

that is not the same as tim mcveigh who was a kook. a crazy anarchist kook.

i dont view the islamist/arabs as kooks. i view them as oppressed extremist lashing out who still need to die. but not crazy. white american terrorist mad at a white american government designed to benefit them most is crazy to me. i feel i can understand the terrorist's motivation. i dont get white kooks in any way shape or form.

another aspect is you have to be careful asking the american government to crack down on "domestic terrorism" the same way as they do global terrorism because as i think is already obvious they will turn to black and latino gangs before they turn on their white brothers. lets keep domestic terrorism a law enforcement issue and international terrorism a military and political issue.

mixing the 2 will only fuck non-whites.
 
vitrifier said:
you don't need money to make a bomb. In the rural US you can find plenty of materials to kill thousands of people. And you can get it dirt cheap. It didn't take millions to hijack two planes and kill thousands of people. Financial backing doesn't mean shit.


Wrong, financial backing DOES mean shit, without money groups like Hezballah, Hamas, even the Iraqi insurgents would have been smashed into the ground long ago, maybe it didn't take millions to hijack 2 planes but it definently cost alot of money to bring these terrorists into the country, house them and pay for them to go to those flights schools, not to mention there were recieving tens of thousands of dollars from high up Saudi officials. If these fucks didn't have the big dollars from the Saudis, they wouldn't have been able to even come here to this country, let alone pose any real threat. Here in the US its possible for someone to make a bomb by himself without big financial backing, but for an actual group of domestic terrorists to really make an impact it is going to cost money and lots of it, otherwise theres no difference between them and the wanna anarchist white kids and goth high school fags.
 
I like how you keep trying to turn this into a left-wing vs. right-wing thing. Is that so you can dismiss everything I say as 'liberal bullshit'?

I am not saying that international terrorists, or even domestic Muslim terrorists don't deserve attention and resources to prevent potential terrorist acts. All I am saying is that there needs to also be a focus on these local non-jihadist terrorists that everyone seems to effectively ignore. The whole while we are fighting terrorism and finding ways to catch Muslim terrorists, there is no interest in catching other terrorists that are potentially as deadly as the Muslims. All I am saying is that we need to worry about them, too, before something like Ok. City happens again. You can't just dismiss domestic terrorists as a bunch of 'kooks' who aren't gonna do anything. And you can't really say that Muslim terrorists aren't as 'kooky' as any other terrorists.

We have people that firebomb clinics. We have groups that have bombed churches. We have people that have assassinated political leaders. We have people that planned and executed mass murders to terrorize groups of people. All of these were in our country and done by our citizens. All of those people were just as 'kooky' as any other terrorist.
 
are you just skimming my post? i didnt say you are saying one or the other isnt a problem. i said you are implying WE are saying only one is a problem. which is again evident by this quote
You can't just dismiss domestic terrorists as a bunch of 'kooks' who aren't gonna do anything.
once again the capacity to enact terror defines the percentage of resources you devote to each group.

domestic groups are not "effectively ignored." the only way this would be true is if you think they attack at their leisure. they have not been able to mount another OK bombing because the government has went after them. not because they havent attempted it again.

i dont get how your mind doesnt come to the same conclusion that the government hasnt been "effectively ignoring" the problem. the kooks want to destroy. they try to destroy. they havent destroyed. that means they must have been stopped. which means the government. unless you think someone made a citizen's arrest.

the method to stop global terrorism is different than domestic terrorism. you keep saying you want the government to crack down on domestic kooks like they do the arab extremist? thats scary to me. military action on american soil scares me. political marginalization scares me. intelligence being kept on average citizens not convicted of anything scares me.

unfortunately, it doesnt scare you.

besides, there are alot of disputes whether international terrrorism's main motivation is religion. do a search on the politics board for "Patricia Wilson"

i posted an article by her called "Religion, suicide terrorism link disputed in book" in the war on terror thread.

which illustrate my point that white christian extremist in america are kooks, and arab/muslim extremist are more politically motivated.
 
Greed said:
which illustrate my point that white christian extremist in america are kooks, and arab/muslim extremist are more politically motivated.

Thats true that arab/muslim extremists are politically motivated but they are also highly motivated by radical Islam, most of them think of themselves as holy warriors fighting a crusade against infidels. while on the other side of the coin, alot of the white extremists here are motivated politically too, alot of them have ambitions to over throw the government, and are not as fanatical as militant muslims, people in Iraq and Palestine blow themselves up and are proud to do it, how many white christian americans have blown themselves to try and kill a government official? or anyone for that matter?
 
i agree that they both have a semi-stated political agenda, but one is semi-understandable to me while the other is totally foreign to me.
 
Greed said:
i agree that they both have a semi-stated political agenda, but one is semi-understandable to me while the other is totally foreign to me.

I agree, I don't understand why a white Christian Extremist would want to overthrow this government, which serves in their best interest?
 
You know what? If you are a westerner the term "Local Jihadist" is a oxymoron. I know in this article it's used to described easterners living in the west that might carry out attacks on western soil. If you get in depth about definitions tho you'll see that while jihadist could describe easterners "local" doesn't. That's the problem..go back to the 1st crusade and you see it started when an western pope wanted Constantinophle so he made up a bunch of lies in order to get the west to invade..when it was over all the loot ended up in the Vatican and the King' bankroll...is that any different than this fake story Bush told the world in order to invade Iraq? History is repeating itself and once again the average citizens are paying for it.
 
New tape threatens attacks on Los Angeles

New tape threatens attacks on Los Angeles
13 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A videotape televised on Sunday purportedly from a U.S.-member of al Qaeda threatened Los Angeles and Melbourne, Australia, on the fourth anniversary of the September 11 attacks.

ABC News said it had received the video in Pakistan. It reported the masked speaker appears to be Adam Gadahn, from southern California, who threatens attacks on the two cities, "Allah willing," and warns that the attackers will show no compassion.

"Yesterday, London and Madrid. Tomorrow, Los Angeles and Melbourne," he said.

"We love peace, but peace on our terms," the speaker said.

Gadahn was believed to have been the young American who appeared in another threatening tape about year ago.

ABC said the young man apparently converted to Islam at an Orange County, California, mosque as a teen-ager.

Los Angeles Police Chief William Bratton told ABC News his city has "very robust counter terrorism" steps in place and was already on a heightened state of alert because of next month's Jewish holidays.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050911...ItZ.3QA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl
 
Re: New tape threatens attacks on Los Angeles

Greed said:
New tape threatens attacks on Los Angeles
13 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A videotape televised on Sunday purportedly from a U.S.-member of al Qaeda threatened Los Angeles and Melbourne, Australia, on the fourth anniversary of the September 11 attacks.

ABC News said it had received the video in Pakistan. It reported the masked speaker appears to be Adam Gadahn, from southern California, who threatens attacks on the two cities, "Allah willing," and warns that the attackers will show no compassion.

"Yesterday, London and Madrid. Tomorrow, Los Angeles and Melbourne," he said.

"We love peace, but peace on our terms," the speaker said.

Gadahn was believed to have been the young American who appeared in another threatening tape about year ago.

ABC said the young man apparently converted to Islam at an Orange County, California, mosque as a teen-ager.

Los Angeles Police Chief William Bratton told ABC News his city has "very robust counter terrorism" steps in place and was already on a heightened state of alert because of next month's Jewish holidays.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050911...ItZ.3QA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl


LOL at the dude saying they love peace and then saying they'll show no compassion, I hope they take this threat seriously.
 
Md. Man Accused in 'Jihad Network' Probe

Md. Man Accused in 'Jihad Network' Probe
The Associated Press
Friday, September 16, 2005; 2:28 PM

WASHINGTON -- A Maryland man was charged with conspiracy to help a terrorist organization, part of an investigation of the "Virginia jihad network" that has so far resulted in 10 convictions, U.S. law enforcement officials said Friday.

Ali Asad Chandia of College Park, Md., is named in a four-count indictment alleging he conspired to provide material support to the Lashkar-e-Taiba organization, which the U.S. designated a terrorist organization in 2001. Chandia was arrested Thursday at his home, assistant Attorney General Alice Fisher said.

The indictment was returned on Wednesday and unsealed Friday after Chandia's arrest.

Also charged is Mohammed Ajmal Khan of Coventry, England, who prosecutors say is a senior official in Lashkar-e-Taiba, an Islamic rebel group fighting for independence in the India-controlled portion of Kashmir. Khan already is in custody in England on terrorism charges.

Ali al-Timimi, who authorities called the spiritual leader of the Virginia jihad network, was sentenced to life in prison in July after being convicted of soliciting treason and other charges. Prosecutors say al-Timimi wielded enormous influence among a group of young Muslim men in northern Virginia who played paintball games in 2000 and 2001 in preparation for holy war around the globe.

Nine other members of the group have been convicted for their roles in the conspiracy, with prison terms ranging from three years to life.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/16/AR2005091601216.html
 
Jewish militant sentenced in US bomb plot

i guess jihadist is a relative term.

Jewish militant sentenced in US bomb plot
Thu Sep 22, 5:46 PM ET

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A militant Jewish activist was sentenced to 20 years in prison on Thursday for his role in a 2001 bomb plot that targeted a Los Angeles-area mosque and the office of a U.S. congressman.

Earl Krugel admitted his guilt in a plea deal after his co-defendant, Jewish Defense League chief Irv Rubin, died in an apparent suicide while awaiting trial in 2002.

Krugel, 62, admitted to conspiracy and weapons violations stemming from a plot to bomb the Los Angeles office of Rep. Darrell Issa (news, bio, voting record), a Republican from California, and the King Fahd mosque in Culver City. The plots were never carried out.

According to court documents, Krugel and Rubin said they targeted Issa because he is of Lebanese descent and they believed Arabs needed a "wake-up call."

Investigators said at the time there was no connection between the Jewish Defense League plot and the September 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington.

Sentencing Krugel to the maximum term under the plea bargain, U.S. District judge Ronald Lew said the crimes were "promoting hatred in the most vile way."

"This is just not acceptable in the United States," Lew said.

Krugel apologized in court for "all the sadness, pain and sorrow I've caused," saying that in his eagerness to make a political statement he had "embarked on a course that was wrong-headed, dangerous and illegal."

Krugel and Rubin were arrested in December 2001 on information supplied by an undercover informant who was shown a list of mosques and other potential targets and pipes with holes intended to be used as pipe bombs.

The Jewish Defense League was founded in 1968 by Rabbi Meir Kahane, who advocated the expulsion of all Arabs from Israel and the occupied territories. He was assassinated in New York in 1990.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050922/ts_nm/crime_jewish_dc_2
 
New Indictment Comes in Calif. Terror Case

New Indictment Comes in Calif. Terror Case
By DON THOMPSON, Associated Press Writer
Fri Sep 23, 5:35 AM ET

SACRAMENTO, Calif. - A man already being held on charges of lying to authorities about attending a terrorist training camp in Pakistan has been indicted on federal charges alleging he intended "to wage jihad in the United States."

Thursday's indictment accuses Hamid Hayat, 23, of providing material support to terrorists, the most serious charge that could be filed absent an actual terrorist act, prosecutors said.

Hayat was one of five men from the same suburban mosque arrested earlier this year in Lodi, an agricultural town of 62,000 about 35 miles south of Sacramento.

"Whatever was taking shape in Lodi isn't going to happen now," U.S. Attorney McGregor Scott said.

Scott said he doesn't know exactly what was planned in Lodi, but he believes indicting Hayat and deporting two Islamic leaders connected to the mosque ended it.

The government never charged the two religious leaders, but it has alleged the two intended to set up a terror training camp as part of a planned religious school in Lodi. During an immigration hearing last month, an FBI agent testified that at the camp, "individuals would be taught ... to commit acts of violence against the U.S."

The indictment alleges Hayat provided support and resources for carrying out acts of terror between March 2003 and June 2005, when he was arrested shortly after returning to the United State from Pakistan.

Hayat "intended, upon receipt of orders from other individuals, to wage jihad (holy war) in the United States," it says.

If convicted of all charges, he could face up to 31 years in prison.

Hayat's attorney, Wazhma Mojaddidi, said prosecutors still offered no concrete evidence that her client attended the camp. "They're just relabeling it. It's really the same evidence," she said.

Hayat and his father, Umer Hayat, were among the five arrested in June after a three-year federal investigation into alleged terrorist activities in Lodi. Authorities say the investigation included conversations secretly taped by an informant.

The two religious leaders, Shabbir Ahmed and Muhammad Adil Khan, were deported to Pakistan after dropping their opposition to immigration charges. Khan's son was deported with his father last month. Ahmed was deported Wednesday, his attorney said.

Both Hayats are being held without bond pending a hearing Friday.

In a court filing opposing bail, prosecutors said the FBI found a book in Hamid Hayat's room entitled "Virtues of Jihad" by Mohammad Masood Azhar, who they say is "founder and leader of the known Pakistani extremist group Jaish-i-Muhammed."

The book "invites every Muslim to join jihad," prosecutors said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050923...bZI2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl
 
Re: New Indictment Comes in Calif. Terror Case


Terror code man gets 15-year term


_40834742_rowe203.jpg

Rowe had hand-written instruct-
tions on how to fire a mortar


BBC NEWS
Friday, 23 September 2005


A Briton has been jailed for 15 years at the Old Bailey for possessing items which could be used in terror attacks.

Andrew Rowe, 34, a Muslim convert from west London, had instructions on firing a mortar and a secret terrorism code.

The court heard an al-Qaeda tape was found at his former home, and that he had spent years travelling, "furthering the cause of Muslim fundamentalism".

The judge said Rowe had been on the verge of an act of terror when he was arrested at the Channel Tunnel in 2003.

He was arrested at the French end of the tunnel while returning to the UK from Germany.
Rowe, a father of four from Maida Vale who is estranged from his wife, was jailed for seven and a half years on the two charges, making a total of 15 years.

But the judge, Mr Justice Fulford, said the maximum sentence for having articles for terrorism, 10 years, was "wholly not adequate".

He urged the government to consider introducing discretionary life terms for such offences.
"Whatever your terrorist purpose was, its fulfilment was imminent," the judge told Rowe.
"In the post 9/11 world, it requires no imagination to understand what would have been in your contemplation and what would have been your purpose.

"You were a paid operative over a substantial period of time, travelling the world and furthering the cause of Muslim fundamentalism."

'Terror shopping list'

The court heard that a pair of socks with traces of explosive on them - rolled into a ball with a cord attached - were found in Rowe's luggage when he was stopped at the tunnel.

_40834766_terrorcodes203300.jpg

Rowe had a code substituting
mobile phone names for words

Rowe said he used the socks for martial arts kicks and that traces of explosives were from when he used them as gloves to unload ammunition, after carrying out humanitarian work in Bosnia in 1995.

But the prosecution claimed they could have been used to clean a mortar.

The jury could not reach a verdict on the socks, and prosecutors decided not to seek a retrial.

Rowe was arrested while travelling from Frankfurt where he had met a man he refused to identify in court.

British police are investigating Rowe's links with a Frenchman called Lionel Dumont who was arrested in Munich last year.

Dumont is known to have been in Bosnia and to have travelled throughout the Far East and is alleged to have been behind bank robberies and plans for terrorist attacks in France.

In searches made after Rowe's arrest, the secret code and hand-written instructions on how to fire a mortar were found at addresses linked to him in London and Birmingham.

The code substituted names of mobile phones for words including money, trouble-police, weapon, airport and army base, prosecutor Mark Ellison said.

There were also codes for explosive materials, making it a "shopping list for terrorism".

Former drug dealer


Mr Ellison also said Rowe had travelled extensively after converting to Islam, including to places of conflict, and had had four passports in seven years.

Rowe told the court he had converted to Islam at the age of 19 in a bid to alter his lifestyle after taking and selling drugs.

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start_quote_rb.gif
We do not know when, what or where he was going to attack, but the public can be reassured that a violent and dangerous man has been brought to justice​
end_quote_rb.gif
Peter Clarke
Metropolitan Police
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Rowe's 'al-Qaeda hallmarks'

An earlier code-writing charge was dropped by the prosecution during the trial.

The jury was told they could return a majority verdict after a full day's deliberation.

Following the convictions, director of public prosecutions Ken Macdonald QC welcomed the verdict, pointing out that there was no direct link between Rowe and a particular terrorist act.

But "possession of those items together with other supporting evidence was sufficient for a jury to conclude that he had them for the purpose of terrorism", he said.

The head of Scotland Yard's Anti-Terrorist Branch, Deputy Assistant Commissioner Peter Clarke, described Rowe's conviction as important.

"He is a global terrorist. He has been trained and knows how to use extreme violence.

"We do not know when, what or where he was going to attack, but the public can be reassured that a violent and dangerous man has been brought to justice."


SOURCE: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4275054.stm

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