is larry harris the worst GM in the NBA?

[cranrab]

the milwaukee bucks only won 28 games last season.

they used the 6th pick in the draft to select the alleged 7'0" chinese dude.

they currently have 23 wins. i'm thinking they MIGHT win as many as 32 games this season.

if they don't make an improvement over last season, larry harris gets my vote.

 

[thundercat]

Yao Ming is Chinese, so what's that supposed to mean? Yi Jianlian was playing well before he got injured. Larry Harris has definitely drafted poorly and made bad trades, but I dont think he's the worst. That honor is reserved for Isiah Thomas. Highest payroll in the league and one of the worst records makes you numero uno automatically.

Larry Harris is a close 2nd though. Especially with how Andrew Bogut is turning out. He's garbage.

 

[cranrab]

Yao Ming is Chinese, so what's that supposed to mean?

meaning WhyTF are you gambling on a chinese project (who didn't even want to sign with milwaukee) when there were still a handful of american frontcourt players left (ex: al thornton).

 

[RunawaySlave]

Pat Riley is the worst.

But you're right IMO. Milwaukee (and too many other franchises to count) just want to bring in any non-black face they can find. Doesn't matter where they're from, long as they aren't black. Supposedly to bolster attendance. Reason being that even if we run a losing franchise, as long as we don't have 10 n****as running around, we can still make some money

That dude Yi shouldn't even be playing 10 minutes a game. Yet they feel the need to force feed him and he's getting served every night.

Quiet as kept, Andrew Bogut ain't all that bad. He just can't stay healthy. Just like every other Buck starter (Redd, Mo Williams, Mason and Yi)

 

[thundercat]

meaning WhyTF are you gambling on a chinese project (who didn't even want to sign with milwaukee) when there were still a handful of american frontcourt players left (ex: al thornton).

*edit* I thought you meant Al Horford instead of Al Thornton. Which you still wouldn't take him with the #6 pick in the draft.

What are you talking about? Al Horford was the #3 pick in the draft and Yi Jianlian was #6. Why not take a chance on a player that could be the next Dirk. A versatile 7 footer who's capable of playing the 3. Hell, the players taken after him haven't made a peep all season. Have you even seen Yi Jianlian play? I doubt it. He has skills...and he wasn't timid early on like Yao. And no, he didn't want to sign with Milwaukee, but he's there isn't he? Him being Chinese doesn't have anything to do with shit. Talent is talent. Lets see where he is in 3 years before we start condemning the dude

1 Portland Greg Oden - C
2 Seattle Kevin Durant - SF
3 Atlanta Al Horford - PF
4 Memphis Mike Conley - PG
5 Boston
Traded to Seattle Jeff Green - SF
6 Milwaukee Yi Jianlian - PF
7 Minnesota Corey Brewer - SG
8 Charlotte
Traded to Golden State Brandan Wright - PF
9 Chicago
from New York Joakim Noah - PF
10 Sacramento Spencer Hawes - C
11 Atlanta
from Indiana Acie Law - PG
12 Philadelphia Thaddeus Young - SF
13 New Orleans Julian Wright - SF
14 Los Angeles Al Thornton - SF
15 Detroit
from Orlando Rodney Stuckey - SG
16 Washington Nick Young - SG
17 New Jersey Sean Williams - C
18 Golden State Marco Belinelli - SG
19 Los Angeles Javaris Crittenton - PG
20 Miami
Traded to Philadelphia Jason Smith - PF
21 Philadelphia
from Denver; Traded to Miami Daequan Cook - SG
22 Charlotte
from Toronto through Cleveland Jared Dudley - SF
23 NY Knicks
from Chicago Wilson Chandler - SF
24 Phoenix
from Cleveland through Boston; Traded to Portland Rudy Fernandez - SG
25 Utah Morris Almond - SG
26 Houston Aaron Brooks - PG
27 Detroit Arron Afflalo - SG
28 San Antonio Tiago Splitter - PF
29 Phoenix Alando Tucker - SF
30 Philadelphia Petteri Koponen - PG

 

[thundercat]

Pat Riley is the worst.

Dude won a ring less than 2 seasons ago so how can he be the worst? They just got old quick. Not much you can do about that, but rebuild. A healthy Dwade,re-signed Shawn Marion, potentially having the #1 pick in the draft, and a few quality free agents. He'll be right back in playoff contention sooner than later...especially in the east. Hell, half those playoff teams dont have winning records or are barely over 500.

And it's mightly funny how revitalized Shaq is in Phoenix. If he gave Pat Riley that type of effort maybe the team wouldn't have the worst record in the league.

 

[enzo666]

Yao Ming is Chinese, so what's that supposed to mean? Yi Jianlian was playing well before he got injured. Larry Harris has definitely drafted poorly and made bad trades, but I dont think he's the worst. That honor is reserved for Isiah Thomas. Highest payroll in the league and one of the worst records makes you numero uno automatically.

Larry Harris is a close 2nd though. Especially with how Andrew Bogut is turning out. He's garbage.

Isiah did a great job bringing talented players to new york. Dont blame the man for not knowing a bunch a grown men getting paid millions to do a job would have no effort and act like bitches. Kevin McHale all day as da worst, and the Griz's gm for GIVING away Gasol for expiring contracts. He could've at least got draft picks or quality trade bait.

 

[cranrab]

What are you talking about? Al Thornton was the #3 pick in the draft and Yi Jianlian was #6.

what are YOU talking about? i wrote al thornton, not al horford. are you chinese or of mixed descent? because you seem to have taken offense to my remarks and responded emotionally.

Why not take a chance on a player that could be the next Dirk.

first we would have to agree that being the "next Dirk" is something worth aspiring to. second, since when did yi develop the range OR accuracy of dirk nowitzki?

A versatile 7 footer who's capable of playing the 3.

you just described kevin garnett, not yi. second, since you've implied that you've watched yi, are you suggesting that his potential to play 2 (or even 3) spots is more than a pipe dream? less fantasy and more reality based?

And no, he didn't want to sign with Milwaukee, but he's there isn't he?

not exactly a ringing endorsement. i'm SURE yi must be giving maximum effort in a place he doesn't want to be in.

Him being Chinese doesn't have anything to do with shit. Talent is talent. Lets see where he is in 3 years before we start condemning the dude

this is the part that is telling about you. if you had read my post without your obvious racial bias, you'd have understood that i was clearly condemning larry harris, NOT yi.

 

[cranrab]

Kevin McHale all day as da worst, and the Griz's gm for GIVING away Gasol for expiring contracts.

man, i love this thread.

so far we have:

larry harris
isiah thomas
pat riley
kevin mchale

i give chris wallace a partial pass because he's only following orders from the BIG idiot in memphis.

 

[thundercat]

Isiah did a great job bringing talented players to new york. Dont blame the man for not knowing a bunch a grown men getting paid millions to do a job would have no effort and act like bitches. Kevin McHale all day as da worst, and the Griz's gm for GIVING away Gasol for expiring contracts. He could've at least got draft picks or quality trade bait.

A GM has to know that just bringing in talent doesn't guarantee wins. Marbury hadn't won shit and was a shoot 1st point guard, yet Isiah traded for him. Eddie Curry was an overweight underachieving player in Chicago, yet Isiah traded a lottery pick for him. Zach Randolph was a trouble making player in Portland with a bad attitude, yet Isiah traded for him. All those draft picks for 3 players that dont have any heart or dedication? He has to be held accountable for that. He should've gotten rid of everyone and started over. Portland started over...look where they are now.

And I agree Chris Wallace and Kevin Mchale are ass too.

 

[thundercat]

what are YOU talking about? i wrote al thornton, not al horford. are you chinese or of mixed descent? because you seem to have taken offense to my remarks and responded emotionally.

LOL...so I'm asian now? Nah, I just think it's dumb to condemn a player based on his ethnicity.

And I edited my previous post in detail. Go back and read it

first we would have to agree that being the "next Dirk" is something worth aspiring to. second, since when did yi develop the range OR accuracy of dirk nowitzki?

You definitely haven't seen him play. He has nice range on his shot.

you just described kevin garnett, not yi. second, since you've implied that you've watched yi, are you suggesting that his potential to play 2 (or even 3) spots is more than a pipe dream? less fantasy and more reality based?

Reality. He has the potential to play the 3 or 4. He may not be able to keep up with 3's defensively, but offensively he's more than capable.

not exactly a ringing endorsement. i'm SURE yi must be giving maximum effort in a place he doesn't want to be in.

He's not the only player who didn't want to play in a certain city. Chinese officials just made a big deal out of it. It's all about money anyway. I expect him to play hard since he'll be playing for his next contract in a few years, regardless of if that payday is from the Bucks or not.

this is the part that is telling about you. if you had read my post without your obvious racial bias, you'd have understood that i was clearly condemning larry harris, NOT yi.

LOL...dont make this personal man. I dont care about the Bucks or Yi, but I've watched them play, unlike you. I know talent when I see it and I'm just speaking on it. Know what you're talking about before you speak without making dumbass comments when it's obvious you're just looking at boxscores and not watching actual games. I know you were condemning Larry Harris, but that Chinese project shit was just stupid. Especially when you look at the players that were drafted after him(most of whom aren't doin shit) and the influence that foreign players have had on the league over the last 10 years.

And you still didn't answer my question about ever seeing him play

 

[cranrab]

LOL...so I'm asian now?

i don't know, are you? what else might motivate a person to leap to incorrect conclusions?

I just think it's dumb to condemn a player based on his ethnicity.

good. we share that view. has anyone done that in this thread? or have you been hyper-sensitive?

You definitely haven't seen him play. He has nice range on his shot.

LOL. a friend and colleague, coach james invited me to workouts and evaluations to see him first hand before MANY even knew his name.

yi has nice "touch" and good range WITH THE QUALIFICATION OF for a player his size. he has the potential to extend UP TO the arc, but currently maxes out in consistency at 18 feet.

i think you're being OVERLY generous to a fault with claims of dirk nowitzki potential.

like most foreign born players, he has accellerated O skills, and you can see that he has worked on first step and 1 dribble combinations originating from his comfort zone (18 feet).

also like most foreign born players, he is soft on D, lacking both strength and quickness. one weakness attributable to his age is his over eager approach to contesting shots, and that makes him susceptible to foul trouble. he may grow out of that.

LOL...dont make this personal man. I dont care about the Bucks or Yi, but I've watched them play, unlike you. I know talent when I see it and I'm just speaking on it. Know what you're talking about before you speak without making dumbass comments when it's obvious you're just looking at boxscores and not watching actual games. I know you were condemning Larry Harris, but that Chinese project shit was just stupid.

yi IS a chinese project. more offensively gifted than say, a mormon project like shawn bradley or a romanian project like gheorghe muresan, but STILL a project.

the influence that foreign players have had on the league over the last 10 years.

i see your point. what with all the foreign born superstars that have come out of the draft in recent years, who wouldn't agree? like saer sene, thabo sefolosha, yaroslav korolev, andris biedrins, darko milicic, mikael pietrus and nikoloz tskitishvili.

whoops. sorry, didn't mean to offend georgian project players.

wait a minute. i need to add some more GMs to this thread, because i see they drafted foreign born studs like vladimir radmanovic, mirsad turkcan, dalibor bagaric and zarko cabarkapa. who knew they'd become household names and revolutionize this great american sport?

 

[cranrab]

it's mightly funny how revitalized Shaq is in Phoenix. If he gave Pat Riley that type of effort maybe the team wouldn't have the worst record in the league.

it's funny how sometimes playing in a city where you don't want to be can have a "chilling effect" on a player like that.

in reality, shaquille o'neal's productivity really isn't all that much different from what it was in miami.

his minutes in phoenix are DOWN, as are his personal fouls, FT% and scoring. the 2 areas that shaquille o'neal has received a shot in the arm are in rebounding and assists.

 

[xfactor]

man, i love this thread.

so far we have:

larry harris
isiah thomas
pat riley
kevin mchale

My vote goes to Larry Bird (or is it future NYK GM Donnie Walsh?). Indiana has turned into the new aged "Jail Blazers" and they don't even field a competitive team.

Not to mention, outside of Granger, their entire starting lineup is white

i give chris wallace a partial pass because he's only following orders from the BIG idiot in memphis.

Heisley is from Chicago. I hear he's hardly ever in Memphis to watch the team unless they are playing an opponent with a marquee player or when they have their annual MLK Day event.

 

[TimRock]

Larry Just got fired.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3301968

 

[cranrab]

Larry Just got fired.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3301968

VINDICATION!



all kidding aside, the knock on larry harris is that he didn't acquire any knowledge OUTSIDE the sphere of his father. that is NOT to suggest that he's a daddy's boy, but rather that larry harris did not (and does not) possess the proper world view required for the progressive and dynamic position of GM.

my favorite quote from the espn article:

"...poor contracts for a core of now unmovable players, mostly when he committed more than $200 million to player salaries in 2005."

 

[tickler]

Either Kevin McHale is the worst GM in the NBA or the best Assistant GM Boston has ever had.

 

[Skinnyni99a]

who cares

 

[D-TOWN REP]

I know he isn't the worst but Donnie Nelson is starting to piss me off in Dallas. The players we have brought in the last few years have been pretty damn garbage. Bass is the first one in a while who seems to be like a keeper, showing that we need to leave the whiteboys and europeans alone and stick to the brothas...(not old ass niggas like Eddie Jones and Juwan Howard though )

 

[Brother Blues]

Kelvin McHale and Isiah.....are one and two,everyone else is fighting for third.

 

[RunawaySlave]

What I want to know is...where are all those people who lambasted Billy King for these last 2 years?? What do they think about his moves now that the team is starting to gel?

Or are they saving their praise for Philly until the white dude from New jersey gets settled in first?? So he can get all the credit (a la Guliani?)

 

[cranrab]

What I want to know is...where are all those people who lambasted Billy King for these last 2 years?

i'll stand up on this one.

i'm not nominating billy king for worst GM, but he was in my top 10.

billy king became 76ers president in may 2003. look at his draft record:

2003 - paccelis morlende (who became willie green)
2004 - andre iguodala (still there)
2005 - louis williams (still there)
2006 - thabo sefolosha (who became rodney carney)
2007 - kyryolo fesenko (GONE)
2007 - petteri koponen (GONE)
2007 - daequan cook (who became jason smith)
2007 - thaddeus young (still there)

in 5 years they got TWO starters out of the 8 draft picks.

 

[cranrab]

billy king pt 2

now let's examine his "blockbuster" trades.

allen iverson was sent to the nuggets for:

andre miller - (still there)
joe smith - (played less than 1 season for the 76ers and is currently playing for the cavaliers)
2 2007 draft picks - see above for what billy king did with FOUR 2007 draft picks.

chris webber (GONE, was WAIVED after less than 2 seasons) came to the 76ers with:

matt barnes - (GONE, playing for the warriors)
micheal bradley - (GONE, retired)

in exchange, the 76ers sent to the kings:

brian skinner - (GONE, playing for the suns)
kenny thomas - (still playing for the kings)
corliss williamson - (GONE, retired)

in addition, EVEN THOUGH the 76ers waived chris webber, he was still on the payroll for NINETEEN MILLION THIS SEASON!

furthermore, EVEN THOUGH aaron mckie hasn't played for the 76ers since 2004-05, he too was still on the payroll for SEVEN MILLION THIS SEASON!

EDIT: the condensed version? billy king allocated almost FORTY SEVEN PERCENT (46.7%) of the 76ers 2008 salary cap FOR PLAYERS WHO SUITED UP FOR DIFFERENT TEAMS!

 

[cranrab]

are they saving their praise for Philly until the white dude from New jersey gets settled in first?

i'm happy (based off track record) that the 76ers got ed stefanski. should he fuck up, i'll be one of the 1st to voice my displeasure.

i mean damn, take a look at the nets draft record since ed stefanski was promoted to GM in 2004.

EVERY ONE of the nets' 1st round picks since 2005 was a STARTER at some point this season for the squad:

antoine wright (traded )
josh boone
marcus williams
sean williams

 

[RunawaySlave]

I'm not saying anything against the new white dude. Even though you can make a few cases AGAINST the drafting of Zoran Planobitch and a couple of others I can't name or care to remember or even know if this Step-dude drafted them. Just saying that NOW that the
Sixers are a playoff team, watch this guy get credit for bringing Philly back into prominence
when we know it was King's player moves and Cheeks coaching that did it


Also, I'm not saying Billy King is the sole reason, or that he made great moves at all. But
bottom line is that they ARE making strides and the reasons are the players he did bring
in (and got killed for). He did not give up on certain players either


Meanwhile, in Jersey, the guy drafted by Step-dude, Josh Boone is FINALLY getting some
shine after 120 games on the bench (with JASON COLLINS ahead of him)

you wanna talk about 's

 

[cranrab]

you can make a few cases AGAINST the drafting of Zoran Planobitch and a couple of others I can't name or care to remember or even know if this Step-dude drafted them.

ed stefanski certainly isn't dipped in gold.

prior to becoming nets GM, he was VP of BO and head of scouting. he contributed to A LOT of bad draft choices dating back to 2002.

2002 - tamar slay (in fairness, he was a 2nd round longshot)
2002 - nenad krstic
2003 - kyle korver (traded to the 76ers for CASH)
2003 - zoran planinic
2004 - christian drejer
2004 - viktor khryapa (became eddie gill)

i think it's fair to say that he went through his experimental euro phase before returning to his senses and focusing on american ballers as GM in 2005-2007.



EDIT: almost forgot the bostjan nachbar for marc jackson and linton johnson trade.

 

[RunawaySlave]

2002 - nenad krstic
2003 - zoran planinic
2004 - christian drejer
2004 - viktor khryapa (became eddie gill)


EDIT: almost forgot the bostjan nachbar for marc jackson and linton johnson trade.

It is any wonder that we were a grind it out team with SWISS CHEEESE defense?? I think one of those 2004 bums picks is still on the bench

Not for you Cran, but to anyone else, please remember that this was a team that went to the NBA Finals two years in a row before all them damn Europeans got here and now we can't even make the playoffs


at least Isiah inherited a team that wasn't shit already. Billy King too

 

[RunawaySlave]

Overheard during the Nets game tonight, Mark Jackson saying that because Stephanski is there in Philly watching over them, that the players have responded by playing better!! And that's (at least) part of the reason for their transformation into playoff contenders

 

[cranrab]

Mark Jackson saying that because Stephanski is there in Philly watching over them, that the players have responded by playing better!! And that's (at least) part of the reason for their transformation into playoff contenders

mark jackson = great player = assclown announcer.

those of you who saw andre iguodala on TNT heard him say he felt it was due in large part to scheduling.

side note:

2008 with billy king: 5-12 (.294), 8 road games, 11 teams .500 or better

2008 with ed stefanski: 34-25 (.576), 31 road games, 29 teams .500 or better

 

[shaddyvillethug]

jon paxson...but got damn @ billy king and the sixers...i just saw iverson and assumed they was good.

 

[thedirector21]

billy knight(Atlanta Hawks) all day. First off you hire Mike Woodson as your coach and keep him. Even though the team clearly doesn't respond to him. Then there's the draft history.

2004 Andre Iguodala, Luol Deng, Al Jefferson, Kevin Martin, Jameer Nelson. All drafted after Josh Childress.

2005 Traded two first round picks and Boris Diaw for Joe Johnson. The draft picks will end up being #21 in 2006 and #15 in 2008 It could have been a lot worse. I just think you almost gave up too much for a guy who wanted to come to your team anyway.

2005 Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Monte Ellis, Andrew Bynum, Danny Granger. All drafted after Marvin Williams.

2006 Brandon Roy, Rudy Gay, Ronnie Brewer, Rajon Rondo, Marcus Williams, Jordan Farmar. All drafted after Sheldon Williams. Hell I would have took anybody off the street before Sheldon Williams. I'll take his future wife over him any day. Dude kids gonna be crying talkin about we want mommy to teach us how to play basketball not you daddy.

2006 Gave Speedy Claxton starters money to sit the bench in street cloths. Tell me the last time you've seem him in a hawks uniform, I'll wait.

2007 Al Holford was a good pick, jury still out on AC Law. Did give up garbage for Mike Bibby. This year not as bad.

Imagine the hawks starting five Deron Williams or Chris Paul, Joe Johnson, Andre Iguodala, Josh Smith, add a big. Because with this four no way the hawks draft high enough to get Holford in 2007. Plus we wouldn't have drafted high in 2006 to draft Sheldon Williams.

 

[cranrab]

bump for thundercat, who became offended when i accurately claimed that yi jianlian is/was a chinese project player.

 

[RunawaySlave]

smh @ some of the names from back then....whatever happened to all those great draft picks


Nachbar??


and I still think Riley sucks....he just got money to throw around

 

[cranrab]

smh @ some of the names from back then....whatever happened to all those great draft picks

yi jianlian getting drafted ahead of joakim noah.

 

[shaddyvillethug]

john paxson.