IRS Tea Party Targeting wrong

NO! That's incredibly deceitful. The story died down because it was a pure politically motivated lie, cooked up by the right wing media machine and swallowed up by the corporate mass media, with some notable exceptions. They had to let it drop because to continue to talk about it would further expose their own gullibility while the Right had to drop it because it was false.


On another IRS related topic
Funny how the GOP cried about all the IRS agents that would need to be hired and how the IRS would be in charge of our healthcare but here they are wanting to use the IRS to enforce stringent income verification for all those that apply for subsidies.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/14/1247282/-Stringent-Income-Verification-Requirements-for-Obamacare-Could-Easily-Undermine-ACA-Rollout
Dammit, pick a side and stay there.
What was false? That the IRS was giving people a hard time? Or that the president personally ordered the IRS to give the Tea Party groups a hard time?

If you guys want to pretend you think the IRS's actions were a travesty then why are you indifferent to the ACTUAL reason all this happened? Ok, the most attention-whoring reason wasn't the case. Now what? Obviously no one cares.
 
Closure? I never had opening. I pretty much said ab initio: if there was political targeting, its wrong; but I never saw where there was any political targeting as alleged by Issa, et al.

That doesn't speak to any other form of political targeting being done at the direction of someone with more authority than Lois Lerner. The point is if its not the most salacious story imaginable then apparently it's not a story. And all parties lost their outrage when the story got boring, but that doesn't mean there is no story.


Stop making shit up!

If there was/is some other form of political targeting going on in the IRS matter, then point it the fuck out -- and lets discuss it. Otherwise, you're sounding like little kids and their imaginary friends, except, you're pointing fingers at imaginary enemies. There's enough real shit out there not to imagine stuff.




Are you saying that people purposely elect politicians to write subjective laws. That would be a new one on me. I don't think I recall any politician running on such a platform, explicitly or implicitly, said or unsaid.


It's a shock to you because you are part of the masses that believes in this system.


:lol: - when you're lacking a response, change the focus and cast blame ???

YOU stated, "people vote in politicians who write subjective laws." Then, you couldn't name a single politician that ran or was elected on the "Subjective Laws" platform. :hmm:






Most laws revolve around someone benefiting more than someone else. Some people are always a threat or always need help, but never everyone. Everyone doesn't get the healthcare subsidy, or the farm subsidy, or some people need to have more money taken away from them than others whether its smokers or millionaires. Everyone is targeted with a law that other people will never worry about.


WTF does any of that have to do with "people vote in politicians who write subjective laws." ???




One of the oddities of this IRS thing is Tea Partiers expressed shocked that the government could work this way. They didn't know people, doing nothing wrong, could have a dream crushed by the bureaucracy. As much as the leftist propaganda is the Tea Partiers are anti-government, they actually believed in its goodness until they finally got some of that "goodness."


First you talk about me being shocked and now you're expressing the Tea Partiers being shocked. You spend a hellava lot of time knowing and articulating what's in the mind of others. :confused:

You know, I think you're talking about yourself, using the third person-Tea Party ???





Nevertheless, how do you propose that a law be written without any resort whatsoever to the subjective ???

Simple it applies to everyone. Civilly, they know when they pass laws that it will only affect certain groups because only a certain group is engaging in that activity. Criminally, the crime should actually hurt people and not just be criminal because it goes against current social norms. But all this is a lost cause because people don't get elected by not identifying their base and giving them what they want whether it just benefits the base or it hinders the non-base.


The subjective vs. objective theory of law has nothing to do with to whom they apply. You must have that mixed up with some other theory, or are you making shit up again ??? Seriously ??? Otherwise, this just sounds like rambling to me.

 
What was false? That the IRS was giving people a hard time? Or that the president personally ordered the IRS to give the Tea Party groups a hard time?
If you guys want to pretend you think the IRS's actions were a travesty then why are you indifferent to the ACTUAL reason all this happened? Ok, the most attention-whoring reason wasn't the case. Now what? Obviously no one cares.

Both.

Demanding standards and asking questions of groups that are asking to not pay taxes on potentially millions of dollars they're raising and spending isn't giving anyone a "hard time". It's making sure they are who they say they are.

The President didn't order anyone to do anything related to the Tea Party.

No travesty here.
 

Stop making shit up!

If there was/is some other form of political targeting going on in the IRS matter, then point it the fuck out -- and lets discuss it. Otherwise, you're sounding like little kids and their imaginary friends, except, you're pointing fingers at imaginary enemies. There's enough real shit out there not to imagine stuff.

Just because you've dismissed everything as long as black Jesus isn't implicated doesn't mean nothing was there. The rank and file auditors said they had to correspond with people out of Washington in the course of reviewing certain applications. The supervisors said there was nothing to it. That hasn't been explained. Likely because it's too far removed from the White House.


:lol: - when you're lacking a response, change the focus and cast blame ???

YOU stated, "people vote in politicians who write subjective laws." Then, you couldn't name a single politician that ran or was elected on the "Subjective Laws" platform. :hmm:

People like you are to blame, which is the problem. I didn't name a SINGLE one because they all do it. Its the nature of the system to only pass laws for certain people. The base receives benefit, everyone else gets the leftovers.


WTF does any of that have to do with "people vote in politicians who write subjective laws." ???




First you talk about me being shocked and now you're expressing the Tea Partiers being shocked. You spend a hellava lot of time knowing and articulating what's in the mind of others. :confused:

You know, I think you're talking about yourself, using the third person-Tea Party ???

It's called an adult mentality where people who disagree with you aren't evil. Regular people are regular people even if they don't worship the same President you worship. Over the course of this story, there were multiple reports of people's personal experiences with the IRS. No matter what someone believes they don't deserve to be fucked with by government if they aren't doing something wrong. I don't have to read my minds. They told their stories and I made a judgment of whether it was genuine. You need to learn to escape the hatred your masters told you to feel towards them.



The subjective vs. objective theory of law has nothing to do with to whom they apply. You must have that mixed up with some other theory, or are you making shit up again ??? Seriously ??? Otherwise, this just sounds like rambling to me.

That's fine Que, you're in the position of the winning team knowing nothing will change. You don't have to understand anything I'm saying. I'll keep pointing out how much savagery you support and you'll keep not understanding.
 
Both.

Demanding standards and asking questions of groups that are asking to not pay taxes on potentially millions of dollars they're raising and spending isn't giving anyone a "hard time". It's making sure they are who they say they are.

The President didn't order anyone to do anything related to the Tea Party.

No travesty here.
Is that what people are complaining about, "Demanding standards and asking questions?"

The standards were inconsistent and unmeetable and the questions weren't always relevant, like what books do people read.

I shake my head when I type to you guys. You're all like Cinderella talking about your prince when you talk about the government, or you're more like battered wives.

Government is just reasonable, measured, and of course it was just being a little harsh, but fair. Always fair. Just "Demanding standards and asking questions." What could people possible be complaining about. They must be anti-government to not like "Demanding standards and asking questions."
 
Is that what people are complaining about, "Demanding standards and asking questions?"

The standards were inconsistent and unmeetable and the questions weren't always relevant, like what books do people read.

I shake my head when I type to you guys. You're all like Cinderella talking about your prince when you talk about the government, or you're more like battered wives.

Government is just reasonable, measured, and of course it was just being a little harsh, but fair. Always fair. Just "Demanding standards and asking questions." What could people possible be complaining about. They must be anti-government to not like "Demanding standards and asking questions."

If I felt like that, I would say that. You should really learn how to argue with what people actually say. It probably would save you time but it would definitely save me the effort of correcting you.

I'm not even sure what you're arguing. This story has come out in it's entirety and it's been proven that the IRS did not target so-called Tea Party groups anymore stringently than they did liberal groups. This was a fraudulent scandal, something some of us were saying very, very early on.
These groups, left and right, were asking for a special consideration so it's entirely appropriate for them to be asked about whether they qualify. We should be against the federal government just rubber stamping every request.
On top of that, the only groups to be denied were liberal groups. So where is the controversy again?
 


Stop making shit up!

If there was/is some other form of political targeting going on in the IRS matter, then point it the fuck out -- and lets discuss it. Otherwise, you're sounding like little kids and their imaginary friends, except, you're pointing fingers at imaginary enemies. There's enough real shit out there not to imagine stuff.



Just because you've dismissed everything as long as black Jesus isn't implicated doesn't mean nothing was there.

:hmm: The hidden hate oozes out. :yes:

Your problem is, you wanted something to be there. And more than that, you wanted Black Jesus to be implicated. :smh: What a letdown, huh?



The rank and file auditors said they had to correspond with people out of Washington in the course of reviewing certain applications. The supervisors said there was nothing to it. That hasn't been explained. Likely because it's too far removed from the White House.


Provide a citation to this. I'd like to read it too. Perhaps, some of that "Likely" might be explained therein.



:lol: - when you're lacking a response, change the focus and cast blame ???

YOU stated, "people vote in politicians who write subjective laws." Then, you couldn't name a single politician that ran or was elected on the "Subjective Laws" platform. :hmm:



People like you are to blame, which is the problem.

:lol: When them evil fucks you worship, Darrell Issa, Ted Cruz & Co., turn out to be bald-faced liars, now I'm to blame and I'm the problem. :D

True to form hommie. Once again you're either putting words into people's mouths or you're making judgments about someone you don't know; AND, you're attributing those tainted misconceptions to another whole class of people ("People like you") who you don't know.

Why do you constantly make shit up ???




I didn't name a SINGLE one because they all do it. Its the nature of the system to only pass laws for certain people. The base receives benefit, everyone else gets the leftovers.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here: Example please. (so that I can understand your point)

And, tie that example to the point you're trying to make.

 
If I felt like that, I would say that. You should really learn how to argue with what people actually say. It probably would save you time but it would definitely save me the effort of correcting you.

I'm not even sure what you're arguing. This story has come out in it's entirety and it's been proven that the IRS did not target so-called Tea Party groups anymore stringently than they did liberal groups. This was a fraudulent scandal, something some of us were saying very, very early on.
The fact that the IRS treated both groups like shit doesn't address whether both group should be treated like shit.

You say I misrepresented your position, then you proceed to reinstate it, "These groups, left and right, were asking for a special consideration so it's entirely appropriate for them to be asked about whether they qualify." Is that what government was doing? Every question and standard revolved around and supported this goal?

On top of that, the only groups to be denied were liberal groups. So where is the controversy again?
There are multiple ways to be wronged like being denied status, holding your status in limbo for 3 years (two election cycles), or making the process so expensive that only the biggest groups can get through it. Its just as much of a big deal when they make people withdraw their application when those people weren't doing anything wrong. There were groups just looking to collect a few thousands in donation to hand out pamplets, yet in your America it makes sense to treat them like this. I guess people without big money have one less way to be part of the political process.
 
:hmm: The hidden hate oozes out. :yes:

Your problem is, you wanted something to be there. And more than that, you wanted Black Jesus to be implicated. :smh: What a letdown, huh?
Because you're so far gone you don't get it at all.

What you think is hidden hate is open disgust. And you think it's directed at Obama when I've said multiple times its directed at you and the voters who endorse this system of reward.

Politicians are a reflections of the people. I've said that alot. They aren't the problem. You are the problem and that's why you don't have a problem with the way laws are written, enforced, or thoughtone's favorite word, upheld.


Provide a citation to this. I'd like to read it too. Perhaps, some of that "Likely" might be explained therein.
So your fake indignation led you to make this thread and volunteer your concern but not actual follow the details of the story? I don't feel like researching 6 month old details, and you wouldn't give a shit anyway. But we all can google. If you want to look up IRS emails out of Washington then go ahead.

:lol: When them evil fucks you worship, Darrell Issa, Ted Cruz & Co., turn out to be bald-faced liars, now I'm to blame and I'm the problem. :D

True to form hommie. Once again you're either putting words into people's mouths or you're making judgments about someone you don't know; AND, you're attributing those tainted misconceptions to another whole class of people ("People like you") who you don't know.

Why do you constantly make shit up ???




I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here: Example please. (so that I can understand your point)

And, tie that example to the point you're trying to make.

 
Because you're so far gone you don't get it at all.

What you think is hidden hate is open disgust.

And you think it's directed at Obama when I've said multiple times its directed at you and the voters who endorse this system of reward.]

Okay, hidden hate manifesting itself as open disgust - for the president. You can attempt to clean it up by rephrasing in an attempt to point your comments at the voters, but YOU used the term Black Jesus (a singular noun) to display your hidden hate manifesting itself as open disgust. Black Jesus couldn't refer to the voters (a plural noun), it could only have referred, singularly, to the president.

But, be my guest; explain it away as you like . . .



Politicians are a reflections of the people. I've said that alot. They aren't the problem. You are the problem and that's why you don't have a problem with the way laws are written, enforced, or thoughtone's favorite word, upheld.

Of course, I disagree with your faulty logic -- since it falls flatly on it face because politicians are elected by the "voters" not the people". The people are a much larger group than voters. But, to the extent that you really do mean "The People" -- then how do you escape blame Sir??? - you're part of the "People", and therefore part of the problem -- unless you're alien or something . . .

Since by your repeated admissions you're NOT A VOTER, then your hidden hate manifesting itself as disgust is misplaced: It should be focused sharply upon YOU -- and those like you who have failed to participate -- but complain like little bitches :angry: and blame everyone else.:rolleyes:



So your fake indignation led you to make this thread and volunteer your concern but not actual follow the details of the story?

Make a damn argument man; and stop trying to tell other people how or what they think. I used to enjoy reading what you had to say (whether or not I agreed with it) but this constant childishness because you disagree is becoming too much.



I don't feel like researching 6 month old details, and you wouldn't give a shit anyway. But we all can google. If you want to look up IRS emails out of Washington then go ahead.

(1) Again, you don't know what I give a shit about. It should be obvious to you, however, that if one cares enough to post and cares enough to respond, that person must give a shit. But I don't give a shit about your constant pretending to read other folks mind and putting words into other people's mouths.

(2) I'm not google anything. If YOU CARED enough to say it; be man enough to google it and make your point. Otherwise, I can only conclude that you don't give a shit -- in which case, just do us all a favor and STFU !!!!


 
Okay, hidden hate manifesting itself as open disgust - for the president. You can attempt to clean it up by rephrasing in an attempt to point your comments at the voters, but YOU used the term Black Jesus (a singular noun) to display your hidden hate manifesting itself as open disgust. Black Jesus couldn't refer to the voters (a plural noun), it could only have referred, singularly, to the president.

But, be my guest; explain it away as you like . . .
Obviously black Jesus refers to Obama and it's also a five year reference to how people like you see him. I know Obama never promoted himself as such, but that never stopped his supporters from asking for deliverance. He was my state senator and federal senator. I'm well aware he campaigned on pragmatism until 2012.

Just like all politicians Obama is amoral. His faults are just the material manifestation of this country's bad values.

Of course, I disagree with your faulty logic -- since it falls flatly on it face because politicians are elected by the "voters" not the people". The people are a much larger group than voters. But, to the extent that you really do mean "The People" -- then how do you escape blame Sir??? - you're part of the "People", and therefore part of the problem -- unless you're alien or something . . .

Since by your repeated admissions you're NOT A VOTER, then your hidden hate manifesting itself as disgust is misplaced: It should be focused sharply upon YOU -- and those like you who have failed to participate -- but complain like little bitches :angry: and blame everyone else.:rolleyes:
I'm not looking to nuance every topic every time we talk about something when it's been discussed multiple times already.

Of course politicans are a reflection of the people they speak for, and they speak for more than just the people who vote for them. Once elected, they are supposed to speak for the people who explicitly voted against them as well. An extension of that is politicians also speak for the people who didn't vote (implicitly voted against all candidates). That last extension applies to people who didn't vote but still gives this system their moral sanction.

That doesn't apply to me. I don't support your corrupt hypocritical system that only debates who should rob and who should be robbed.

I withdrew my moral sanction in 2008 when I realized for the first time that you, not politicians, were the problem. In reality, I was never voting against a politician that chose to give banks trillions of dollars (which wasn't unusual for them), I was voting against millions of people who said thank you for giving banks trillions of dollars.

But like I said, we've discussed this multiple time already. When it's convenient you people bring up that I don't vote, but still think it makes sense to accuse me of favoring one party over the other.

Make a damn argument man; and stop trying to tell other people how or what they think. I used to enjoy reading what you had to say (whether or not I agreed with it) but this constant childishness because you disagree is becoming too much.

(1) Again, you don't know what I give a shit about. It should be obvious to you, however, that if one cares enough to post and cares enough to respond, that person must give a shit. But I don't give a shit about your constant pretending to read other folks mind and putting words into other people's mouths.

(2) I'm not google anything. If YOU CARED enough to say it; be man enough to google it and make your point. Otherwise, I can only conclude that you don't give a shit -- in which case, just do us all a favor and STFU !!!!
You're right I don't know what you think. I only know what you post. And what this thread is full of are updates that focus on establishing that the President didn't personally order specific targeting of the Tea Party groups. The updates reflect the general concerns of the media. The updates here aren't a narrative of what happened in general, which is actually fairly uncommon for this board when a thread has this many post. That is the indicator I'm using when I say you don't give a shit about the details of what happened. I don't need to read your mind. I can read what you post and what you prioritized to post. It's not rocket science. Or telepathy.

But if you want to say you gave a shit about the details but didn't post them, OK. Then you should be aware that IRS workers blamed their actions on specific orders from their supervisors. You should already be aware that political appointees in Washington were involved in the review of certain applications. You should be aware that the standards were inconsistent between groups and the questions asked by the IRS weren't always relevant to review process. You should already be aware that this policy hurt smaller groups more than bigger groups because they couldn't afford to have an application pending for multiple years.


Which group do you propose should be treated like shit ? ? ?
Obviously groups that have done something wrong should be treated like shit. People applying for a particular tax exempt status shouldn't need to prove they haven't been doing anything wrong, prove they aren't doing anything wrong, or prove they're not going to do anything wrong. There should be an objective standard to obtain that status, and if a group meets it then give them the tax exempt status. If they violate the law afterwards then go after them.

Of course, a principle like that would require a complete overhaul of the political system, which isn't going to happen.
 
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Obviously groups that have done something wrong should be treated like shit. People applying for a particular tax exempt status shouldn't have to prove they haven't doing anything wrong, prove they aren't doing anything wrong, or prove they're not going to do anything wrong. There should be an objective standard to obtain that status, and if a group meets it then give them the tax exempt status. If they violate the law then go after them.
Of course, a principle like that would require a complete overhaul of the political system, which isn't going to happen.

Where is the proof that this is not exactly what happened?

I was wondering, and I think you answered me, if you thought groups should just be given tax exempt status. It appears that you don't think so, correct me if I'm reading you wrong.
 
Where is the proof that this is not exactly what happened?

I was wondering, and I think you answered me, if you thought groups should just be given tax exempt status. It appears that you don't think so, correct me if I'm reading you wrong.
You can rely on the post in this thread for that like post #55:

....Q: In your opinion, was the decision to screen and centralize the review of Tea Party cases the targeting of the President's political enemies?
The IRS manager didn't deny subjective screening, he just denied it was the result of political targeting.

Ideally, the application should just have the names of the officers accountable within the organization and extensive, legally binding, statements about the planned activities of the organization. The government has shown that they care about political leanings of the groups which shouldn't be a concern in a free society.

If they can't figure out a way to treat every applicant equally under the law, then get rid of that particular type of tax exemption.
 
The IRS manager didn't deny subjective screening, he just denied it was the result of political targeting.

Then we're good here. This assertion has been proven out as the IRS conducted the same type of investigation on left leaning organizations.

Ideally, the application should just have the names of the officers accountable within the organization and extensive, legally binding, statements about the planned activities of the organization. The government has shown that they care about political leanings of the groups which shouldn't be a concern in a free society.

If they can't figure out a way to treat every applicant equally under the law, then get rid of that particular type of tax exemption.

This has not been proven and has in fact, with this administration, been soundly disproven.
I don't worry much about them doing away with this particular tax exemption. It appears they're going to force the IRS to actually follow the law and not their own guidelines and that would take all judgement out of their hands.
 
Then we're good here. This assertion has been proven out as the IRS conducted the same type of investigation on left leaning organizations.
On this kind of board, it can be lost that there are more than just left-leaning and right-leaning political thought, so I would argue against a "we're good" mentality.

You can think of it this way, the affected groups, by being designated right or left, were targeted because they were viewed as most likely to be involved in the political process. The government was trying to control political participation. That only benefits the government.

I don't worry much about them doing away with this particular tax exemption. It appears they're going to force the IRS to actually follow the law and not their own guidelines and that would take all judgement out of their hands.
This is the difference in our views of government officials. You're comforted by this. I have no reason to believe that increase oversight will work or even occur.
 
On this kind of board, it can be lost that there are more than just left-leaning and right-leaning political thought, so I would argue against a "we're good" mentality.

You can think of it this way, the affected groups, by being designated right or left, were targeted because they were viewed as most likely to be involved in the political process. The government was trying to control political participation. That only benefits the government.

I was wondering where the disconnect was and there it is.
This didn't happen anywhere but your imagination.
Every single one of those groups and anyone else could and can participate in the political process. What they can't do without authorization is receive a tax exempt status.
None of these groups were asking to participate, they were asking for special consideration.

This is the difference in our views of government officials. You're comforted by this. I have no reason to believe that increase oversight will work or even occur.

You keep proving that if a person has bad information, they will come to the wrong conclusion.
This isn't increase oversight, it's following the letter of the law.
No one can keep up with everything but it's quite clear you haven't kept up with this.
 
I was wondering where the disconnect was and there it is.
This didn't happen anywhere but your imagination.
Independent of this particular scandal, you don't think that regulating speech is the ENTIRE point of giving special governmental designations to political action groups and the like?

Every single one of those groups and anyone else could and can participate in the political process. What they can't do without authorization is receive a tax exempt status.
None of these groups were asking to participate, they were asking for special consideration.
You've already conceded the point with your support of tiered taxation for different activities which is the norm for this society. People cry that certain activities have prohibitive cost so they need to be given special exemptions to make the activity economically viable because the activity will have a desirous effect for the country. That argument has been used for everything from helping people eat, to subsidizing solar power, and you just made it in the other thread for mortgage interest deduction. It's desirous for people to speak their voice (provide for social welfare) or however they want to word these groups. It's been deemed by your government that a tax exempt status is needed and these groups cannot reasonably be expected to perform effectively without this special tax status due to the prohibitive cost. In your system they can't participate without the special consideration. Don't run away from your convoluted world.

You should learn more about your government if you didn't know why the tax code is treated the way it is. Of course, you probably think the tax code is about fairness rather than it's actual use of social engineering.

You keep proving that if a person has bad information, they will come to the wrong conclusion.
This isn't increase oversight, it's following the letter of the law.
No one can keep up with everything but it's quite clear you haven't kept up with this.
You have so much faith in holding the IRS accountable for following the same law they were already tasked to follow. If Congress isn't going to change the law, then they can only ensure the IRS follows the letter of the law with increased oversight, which I said isn't likely to happen.

Do you have another way you expect Congress to hold the IRS accountable without oversight?
 
Independent of this particular scandal, you don't think that regulating speech is the ENTIRE point of giving special governmental designations to political action groups and the like?

You don't need the government to endorse any particular cause or speech you choose to participate in. They can only "regulate" your speech if you need favors, such as tax exempt status.


You've already conceded the point with your support of tiered taxation for different activities which is the norm for this society. People cry that certain activities have prohibitive cost so they need to be given special exemptions to make the activity economically viable because the activity will have a desirous effect for the country. That argument has been used for everything from helping people eat, to subsidizing solar power, and you just made it in the other thread for mortgage interest deduction. It's desirous for people to speak their voice (provide for social welfare) or however they want to word these groups. It's been deemed by your government that a tax exempt status is needed and these groups cannot reasonably be expected to perform effectively without this special tax status due to the prohibitive cost. In your system they can't participate without the special consideration. Don't run away from your convoluted world.

That's a lie. They can participate, they would just have to pay taxes, like any other business.

You should learn more about your government if you didn't know why the tax code is treated the way it is. Of course, you probably think the tax code is about fairness rather than it's actual use of social engineering.

You're exhausting.
Don't project. Ask me a question on what I think.
I know the government uses the tax code for social engineering. that's why you get tax breaks for things involving children because they want people to have kids.


You have so much faith in holding the IRS accountable for following the same law they were already tasked to follow. If Congress isn't going to change the law, then they can only ensure the IRS follows the letter of the law with increased oversight, which I said isn't likely to happen.
Do you have another way you expect Congress to hold the IRS accountable without oversight?

:smh:
You don't know about this. Stop pretending like you do or at least research the actual story. Your posts keep exposing your limited information.
The law doesn't need to be changed. It's perfect as it stands. It's the IRS that needs to go by the word of the law, as written. They don't need additional oversight, just people to do their jobs.

http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/odonnell-the-real-irs-scandal-happened-1
 
You don't need the government to endorse any particular cause or speech you choose to participate in. They can only "regulate" your speech if you need favors, such as tax exempt status.
They regulate speech all the time in the name of the public good that has nothing to do with taxes. Whether something is art or pornographic like the Virgin Mary made out of shit or to mandate condoms, where you can stand during a protest like the Iraq War protest or the Westboro church, whether something is deceitful or fully disclosed like advertising or prescription drug risk. All those things aren't about government favor or hurt someone, but your government regulates it.

You government regulates speech most effectively by dictating how it's said. The medium you do it with, the audience you're allowed to reach, or shifting the legal definition of harm.

You keep accusing me of mischaracterizing you, then you proceed to show this unhealthy and undeserved trust, not just in their action, but in the government's intent when they take action.

That's a lie. They can participate, they would just have to pay taxes, like any other business.
I know its a lie, did you read the rest of what I wrote. That's the logic of the system that's set up. The logic you used today for interest deductions. Everything you want more of needs to be subsidized.

:smh:
You don't know about this. Stop pretending like you do or at least research the actual story. Your posts keep exposing your limited information.
The law doesn't need to be changed. It's perfect as it stands. It's the IRS that needs to go by the word of the law, as written. They don't need additional oversight, just people to do their jobs.

http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/odonnell-the-real-irs-scandal-happened-1
Despite your faith, there is already a track record that exists regarding the ability of the IRS to follow the law as written and the effectiveness of the law as written to regulate the behavior of the IRS. You're so trusting you don't even think increased oversight is necessary.
 


They regulate speech all the time in the name of the public good that has nothing to do with taxes. Whether something is art or pornographic like the Virgin Mary made out of shit or to mandate condoms, where you can stand during a protest like the Iraq War protest or the Westboro church, whether something is deceitful or fully disclosed like advertising or prescription drug risk. All those things aren't about government favor or hurt someone, but your government regulates it.

You government regulates speech most effectively by dictating how it's said. The medium you do it with, the audience you're allowed to reach, or shifting the legal definition of harm.

You keep accusing me of mischaracterizing you, then you proceed to show this unhealthy and undeserved trust, not just in their action, but in the government's intent when they take action.


I know its a lie, did you read the rest of what I wrote. That's the logic of the system that's set up. The logic you used today for interest deductions. Everything you want more of needs to be subsidized.


Despite your faith, there is already a track record that exists regarding the ability of the IRS to follow the law as written and the effectiveness of the law as written to regulate the behavior of the IRS. You're so trusting you don't even think increased oversight is necessary.


Which is tantamount to saying, there should be NO RESTRAINTS, whatsoever, upon speech. That is, speech should be unbridled -- and anyone can say whatever anyone wants; whenever anyone wants to say it; and wherever anyone wants to say it.

A theory in harmony with the proposition that there should be no restraints upon the free market system. That is, the markets alone are determinative and there should be no governmental regulation, whatsoever, of the free market system.

Libertarianism is it ???

Sounds like what the poster was talking about in the post below in the thread Libertarianism Is Stupid As Fuck - Yeah I said it:





a few posts about ron paul in another thread reminded me how insanely retarded this political philosophy is. It's a fantasy-land, pie-in-the-sky ideology that sounds wonderful in theory but has nothing to do with reality.

In libertopia government is the source of all problems and reducing it's scope improves everything magically.

anti-discrimination laws? unnecessary... "right of association" and "mutual consent" is all that matters... It's a private matter. :yes:

minimum wage? no.... The "market" will determine a fair living wage. :yes:

civil rights? unnecessary.... We don't understand what systemic and institutional racism mean. :yes:

intelligent regulation? no... Even though we've seen the effects of massive deregulation play out in the financial sector specifically over the last few years we abhor regulation as a matter of course. :yes:

And this is only the tip of the iceberg. How can intelligent people believe this bullshit?

Discuss


 

Treasury, IRS Will Issue Proposed Guidance
For Tax-Exempt Social Welfare Organizations




11/26/2013


WASHINGTON — The U.S. Department of the Treasury and the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) today will issue initial guidance regarding qualification requirements for tax-exemption as a social welfare organization under section 501(c)(4) of the Internal Revenue Code. This proposed guidance defines the term "candidate-related political activity," and would amend current regulations by indicating that the promotion of social welfare does not include this type of activity. The proposed guidance also seeks initial comments on other aspects of the qualification requirements, including what proportion of a 501(c)(4) organization's activities must promote social welfare.

The initial guidance is expected to be posted on the Federal Register later today.

There are a number of steps in the regulatory process that must be taken before any final guidance can be issued. Given the significant public interest in these and related issues, Treasury and the IRS expect to receive a large number of comments. Treasury and the IRS are committed to carefully and comprehensively considering all of the comments received before issuing additional proposed guidance or final rules.

"This proposed guidance is a first critical step toward creating clear-cut definitions of political activity by tax-exempt social welfare organizations," said Treasury Assistant Secretary for Tax Policy Mark J. Mazur. "We are committed to getting this right before issuing final guidance that may affect a broad group of organizations. It will take time to work through the regulatory process and carefully consider all public feedback as we strive to ensure that the standards for tax-exemption are clear and can be applied consistently."

"This is part of ongoing efforts within the IRS that are improving our work in the tax-exempt area," said IRS Acting Commissioner Danny Werfel. "Once final, this proposed guidance will continue moving us forward and provide clarity for this important segment of exempt organizations."

Organizations may apply for tax-exempt status under section 501(c)(4) of the tax code if they operate to promote social welfare. The IRS currently applies a "facts and circumstances" test to determine whether an organization is engaged in political campaign activities that do not promote social welfare. Today's proposed guidance would reduce the need to conduct fact-intensive inquiries by replacing this test with more definitive rules.

In defining the new term, "candidate-related political activity," Treasury and the IRS drew upon existing definitions of political activity under federal and state campaign finance laws, other IRS provisions, as well as suggestions made in unsolicited public comments.

Under the proposed guidelines, candidate-related political activity includes:

•Communications

  • Communications that expressly advocate for a clearly identified candidate or candidates of a political party.

  • Communications that are made within 60 days of a general election (or within 30 days of a primary election) and clearly identify a candidate or political party.

  • Communications expenditures that must be reported to the Federal Election Commission.


•Grants and Contributions

  • Any contribution that is recognized under campaign finance law as a reportable contribution.

  • Grants to section 527 political organizations and other tax-exempt organizations that conduct candidate-related political activities (note that a grantor can rely on a written certification from a grantee stating that it does not engage in, and will not use grant funds for, candidate-related political activity).



•Activities Closely Related to Elections or Candidate


  • Voter registration drives and "get-out-the-vote" drives.

  • Distribution of any material prepared by or on behalf of a candidate or by a section 527 political organization.

  • Preparation or distribution of voter guides that refer to candidates (or, in a general election, to political parties).

  • Holding an event within 60 days of a general election (or within 30 days of a primary election) at which a candidate appears as part of the program.


These proposed rules reduce the need to conduct fact-intensive inquiries, including inquiries into whether activities or communications are neutral and unbiased.

Treasury and the IRS are planning to issue additional guidance that will address other issues relating to the standards for tax exemption under section 501(c)(4). In particular, there has been considerable public focus regarding the proportion of a section 501(c)(4) organization's activities that must promote social welfare. Due to the importance of this aspect of the regulation, the proposed guidance requests initial comments on this issue. The proposed guidance also seeks comments regarding whether standards similar to those proposed today should be adopted to define the political activities that do not further the tax-exempt purposes of other tax-exempt organizations and to promote consistent definitions across the tax-exempt sector.


SOURCE: U.S. Department of Treasuryhttp://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Pages/jl2225.aspx

 

New Rules Would Rein In Nonprofits’ Political Role



New rules proposed by the Treasury Department and the Internal Revenue Service would clarify both how the I.R.S. defines political activity and how much nonprofits are allowed to spend on it. The proposal covers not just television advertising, but bread-and-butter political work like candidate forums and get-out-the-vote drives.

Long demanded by government watchdogs and Democrats who say the flow of money through tax-exempt groups is corrupting the political system, the changes would be the first wholesale shift in a generation in the regulations governing political activity by nonprofits.

The move follows years of legal and regulatory shifts, including the Supreme Court’s Citizens United ruling in 2010, that have steadily loosened the rules governing political spending, particularly by those with the biggest bank accounts: corporations, unions and wealthy individuals.

But the proposal also thrusts the I.R.S. into what is sure to be a polarizing regulatory battle, with some Republicans immediately criticizing the proposal on Tuesday as an attack on free speech and a ploy to undermine congressional investigations into the agency’s handling of applications from Tea Party groups.



 
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