How long should the typical work week be?

How long should the typical standard average work week be?

  • Less than 20 hours

  • 20-24 hours

  • 25-29 hours

  • 30-34 hours

  • 35-39 hours

  • 40-45 hours

  • 46-54 hours

  • 55+ hours


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Rembrandt Brown

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21 hours- THE CASE FOR A SHORTER WORKING WEEK

A ‘normal’ working week of 21 hours could help to address a range of urgent, interlinked problems: overwork, unemployment, over-consumption, high carbon emissions, low well-being, entrenched inequalities, and the lack of time to live sustainably, to care for each other, and simply to enjoy life.



This report sets out arguments for a much shorter working week. It proposes a radical change in what is considered ‘normal’ – down from 40 hours or more, to 21 hours. While people can choose to work longer or shorter hours, we propose that 21 hours – or its equivalent spread across the calendar year – should become the standard that is generally expected by government, employers, trade unions, employees, and everyone else.

The vision

Moving towards much shorter hours of paid work offers a new route out of the multiple crises we face today. Many of us are consuming well beyond our economic means and well beyond the limits of the natural environment, yet in ways that fail to improve our well-being – and meanwhile many others suffer poverty and hunger. Continuing economic growth in high-income countries will make it impossible to achieve urgent carbon reduction targets. Widening inequalities, a failing global economy, critically depleted natural resources and accelerating climate change pose grave threats to the future of human civilisation.

A ‘normal’ working week of 21 hours could help to address a range of urgent, interlinked problems: overwork, unemployment, over-consumption, high carbon emissions, low well-being, entrenched inequalities, and the lack of time to live sustainably, to care for each other, and simply to enjoy life.


21 hours as the new ‘norm’

Twenty-one hours is close to the average that people of working age in Britain spend in paid work and just a little more than the average spent in unpaid work. Experiments with shorter working hours suggest that they can be popular where conditions are stable and pay is favourable, and that a new standard of 21 hours could be consistent with the dynamics of a decarbonised economy.

There is nothing natural or inevitable about what’s considered ‘normal’ today. Time, like work, has become commodified – a recent legacy of industrial capitalism. Yet the logic of industrial time is out of step with today’s conditions, where instant communications and mobile technologies bring new risks and pressures, as well as opportunities. The challenge is to break the power of the old industrial clock without adding new pressures, and to free up time to live sustainable lives.

To meet the challenge, we must change the way we value paid and unpaid work. For example, if the average time devoted to unpaid housework and childcare in Britain in 2005 were valued in terms of the minimum wage, it would be worth the equivalent of 21 per cent of the UK’s gross domestic product.

Planet, people, and markets: reasons for change

A much shorter working week would change the tempo of our lives, reshape habits and conventions, and profoundly alter the dominant cultures of western society. Arguments for a 21-hour week fall into three categories, reflecting three interdependent ‘economies’, or sources of wealth, derived from the natural resources of the planet, from human resources, assets and relationships, inherent in everyone’s everyday lives, and from markets. Our arguments are based on the premise that we must recognise and value all three economies and make sure they work together for sustainable social justice.

Safeguarding the natural resources of the planet. Moving towards a much shorter working week would help break the habit of living to work, working to earn, and earning to consume. People may become less attached to carbon-intensive consumption and more attached to relationships, pastimes, and places that absorb less money and more time. It would help society to manage without carbon-intensive growth, release time for people to live more sustainably, and reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

Social justice and well-being for all. A 21-hour ‘normal’ working week could help distribute paid work more evenly across the population, reducing ill-being associated with unemployment, long working hours and too little control over time. It would make it possible for paid and unpaid work to be distributed more equally between women and men; for parents to spend more time with their children – and to spend that time differently; for people to delay retirement if they wanted to, and to have more time to care for others, to participate in local activities and to do other things of their choosing. Critically, it would enable the ‘core’ economy to flourish by making more and better use of uncommodified human resources in defining and meeting individual and shared needs. It would free up time for people to act as equal partners, with professionals and other public service workers, in co-producing well-being.

A robust and prosperous economy. Shorter working hours could help to adapt the economy to the needs of society and the environment, rather than subjugating society and environment to the needs of the economy. Business would benefit from more women entering the workforce; from men leading more rounded, balanced lives; and from reductions in work-place stress associated with juggling paid employment and home-based responsibilities. It could also help to end credit-fuelled growth, to develop a more resilient and adaptable economy, and to safeguard public resources for investment in a low-carbon industrial strategy and other measures to support a sustainable economy.

Transitional problems

Of course, moving from the present to this future scenario will not be simple. The proposed shift towards 21 hours must be seen in terms of a broad, incremental transition to social, economic and environmental sustainability. Problems likely to arise in the course of transition include the risk of increasing poverty by reducing the earning power of those on low rates of pay; too few new jobs because people already in work take on more overtime; resistance from employers because of rising costs and skills shortages; resistance from employees and trade unions because of the impact on earnings in all income brackets; and more general political resistance that might arise, for example, from moves to enforce shorter hours.

Necessary conditions for tackling transitional problems

Work is beginning at nef (the new economics foundation) to develop a new economic model that will help to engineer a ‘steady-state’ economy and address problems of transition to 21 hours. There is much work yet to be done and suggestions set out in this report are there to stimulate further debate and thought, rather than offer definitive solutions. They focus on achieving shorter working hours, ensuring a fair living income for all, improving gender relations and the quality of family life, and changing norms and expectations.

Achieving shorter working hours. Conditions necessary for successfully reducing paid working hours include reducing hours gradually over a number of years in line with annual wage increments; changing the way work is managed to discourage overtime; providing active training to combat skills shortages and to help long-term unemployed return to the labour force; managing employers’ costs to reward rather than penalise taking on extra staff; ensuring more stable and equal distribution of earnings; introducing regulations to standardise hours that also promote flexible arrangements to suit employees, such as job sharing, extended care leave and sabbaticals; and offering more and better protection for the self-employed against the effects of low pay, long hours, and job insecurity.

Ensuring a fair living income. Options for dealing with the impact on earnings of a much shorter working week include redistribution of income and wealth through more progressive taxation; an increased minimum wage; a radical restructuring of state benefits; carbon trading designed to redistribute income to poor households; more and better public services; and encouraging more uncommodified activity and consumption.

Improving gender relations and the quality of family life. Measures to ensure that the move towards 21 hours has positive rather than negative impacts on gender relations and family life include flexible employment conditions that encourage more equal distribution of unpaid work between women and men; universal, high-quality childcare that dovetails with paid working time; more job-sharing and limits on overtime; flexible retirement; stronger measures enforcing equal pay and opportunity; more jobs for men in caring and primary school teaching; more childcare, play schemes and adult care using co-produced models of design and delivery; and enhanced opportunities for local action to build neighbourhoods that everyone feels safe in and enjoys.

Changing norms and expectations. There are many examples of apparently intractable social norms changing very quickly – for example, attitudes to the slave trade and votes for women, wearing seatbelts and crash-helmets, and not smoking in public places. The weight of public opinion can shift quite suddenly from antipathy to approval as a result of new evidence, strong campaigning, and changing circumstances, including a sense of crisis. There are some signs of favourable conditions beginning to emerge for shifting expectations about a ‘normal’ working week. Further changes that may help include the development of a more egalitarian culture, raising awareness about the value of unpaid labour, strong government support for uncommodified activities, and a national debate about how we use, value, and distribute work and time.

We are at the beginning of a national debate. The next step is to make a thorough examination of the benefits, challenges, barriers and opportunities associated with moving towards a 21-hour week in the first quarter of the twenty-first century. This should be part of the Great Transition to a sustainable future.
 

Rembrandt Brown

Slider
Registered
I only work 3 days a week and 9 months a year.

What does that do for your life?

Could you imagine working 40 hours a week 52 days a year with holidays maybe thrown in and a week or two of vacation if you're really lucky?

Do you believe factory workers, people who work in restaurants and retail, and most Americans deserve to live a life closer to yours than the 40x52 grind?
 

Mask

"OneOfTheBest"
Platinum Member
my current schedule is 50hrs...

40hrs works, I often take Monday’s off his because it’s nice to have off.

but being a refinery/chemical plant worker we take them hours when we can. Slow times will come.
 

Rembrandt Brown

Slider
Registered
great question...

simple... the key to life is balance..

work three and a half days.. rest three and a half days......

cacs make life so complicated and stressful

It's not just white people, though. You have a lot of black capitalists raised on Jay-Z types bragging about materialism, "hustling," ownership and being billionaires who don't understand that life is not just about work and wealth accumulation.
 

TooTrilla

Mil Town Legend
BGOL Investor
4 days, 10 hours each
Thats my schedule. But we have unlimited overtime. So I usually work 2 more 8 hour days and still have a day off. Less hours equals less money. Plus Im a service technician, so Im not stuck in an office or some factory. I go home up to 3 times a day sometimes. Easy work.
 

God Dammit

Shaddyvillescrub’s Idol
BGOL Investor
We should not have to work more than 5hrs a day.
I say 4 days a week, but 25hr week is the most this fucked up AmeriKKKan system would bend, if they bend at all.
Some of you saying 40, or 10hr work days are bugging!
Look at some of these European countries before jumping to the AmeriKKKan way of thinking.​
 

Rembrandt Brown

Slider
Registered
We should not have to work more than 5hrs a day.
I say 4 days a week, but 25hr week is the most this fucked up AmeriKKKan system would bend, if they bend at all.
Some of you saying 40, or 10hr work days are bugging!
Look at some of these European countries before jumping to the AmeriKKKan way of thinking.​

Some folks are actually voting 40+... Brainwashed, they are.

 

blackbull1970

The Black Bastard
Platinum Member
They need to shorten the work week, majority of people employed today are not putting in a full 8 hr day or 40 hr work week.

Majority of folks are fucking off during the day on their phones.

Cyber Monday after Thanksgiving is considered one of the most non-productive days of the year cuz folks are on the Net lurking for deals instead of working.
 

tallblacknyc

Rising Star
Certified Pussy Poster
I'm not saying I disagree with people working shorter hours but logically that couldn't happen for various careers and business without having a huge impact on services and products we use and need... Construction, medical, transportation, sanitation, utilities, emergency services, etc... Let's not even get into the retail market with places that sell goods etc... Some of these things need people to work a certain amount of hours to provide for the population
 

kain

Professional Bastard Bum
Platinum Member
If you are paid by the hour, you have to offset your cost of taxes, deductions, transportation and food to make it worth working that day.
 

tallblacknyc

Rising Star
Certified Pussy Poster
I have always said that if I could travel back in time I would like to meet the people who said, "we're going to work 5 days a week and only rest on 2" just so I can slap the shit out of them (or slap some balance into them).
It was called big business... We gonna use these humanoids like a battery... Gonna get as much wear and tear out of them and once they are useless we gonna throw them away and get brand new batteries aka the next generation(their kids).. rinse and repeat... That is the true matrix and what humans are trapped in... The robots represented big business and the humans who they needed to refuel on is you
 

Mr.Mojo

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
Considering Ive been on call since 4:50 am fuckin wit a broken water heater.. Fuck working period. Ugh
 

p5ych3

Curry Is My God
BGOL Patreon Investor
I liked when I did 3x12, but that was from Friday-sunday so it was an issue for family. Then did 4x10, but still had to work Friday and Saturday.

Now I'm salaried, so I usually bounce early unless we doing upgrades or maintenance.. if I didn't have to support desktop users I could work from home.
 

DJCandle

Well-Known Member
BGOL Investor
Capitalism won’t allow for it. In fact, I’d make the case that humans have pumped the brakes on going over 40 hours quite well. Greed and self preservation knows no bound. If a person feels that working harder past the 40 hours limit works for them, in order to allow them to thrive, there’s nothing saying that they and others like them won’t be a success through pushing through that limit.

Now, would it solve alotta problems in society to shorten hours? Would people be happier? More productive? I have no doubts in my mind folks would be grateful for a third day off during the week but I have my doubts if it would ever happen.

We go against our self interests all the time cause we can’t help ourselves. You know carbon emissions is a problem, but you still drive a car. You know junk food is bad, but you still go for that cheeseburger. And just like we know long grueling hours aren’t good for your mental health, we do it anyway for the almighty dollar.

And the cycle continues.
 

gene cisco

Not A BGOL Eunuch
BGOL Investor
It was called big business... We gonna use these humanoids like a battery... Gonna get as much wear and tear out of them and once they are useless we gonna throw them away and get brand new batteries aka the next generation(their kids).. rinse and repeat... That is the true matrix and what humans are trapped in... The robots represented big business and the humans who they needed to refuel on is you
Yeah. If you look back at history, shit is depressing. Adults complaining now about working too much, but back in the early 20th century and before that children were working too.

People had it rough for most of human history. No refrigeration. No plumbing. Everything was fucking work and then there was actual work to get the shekles to buy shit or to trade.

America had a brief boom from the 1950s to 1980s where turning a screw jobs had pay increases and provided for the entire household. That's 30 fucking years out of the entire human history of 'regular' people -- including children -- being worked to death.

That said, I do think people could get away with working few hours in modern society. But you just can't cut a doctor's hours or a mechanic's hours. Shit. I wish auto shops had more hours for convenience purposes. lol
 

Moving Target

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
DEPENDS ON THE JOB. I KNOW CATS WORKING 60+ HOURS A WEEK AND BRINGING HOME GOOD PAYCHECKS....BY THE SAME TOKEN, I KNOW CATS WORKING 40 HOURS A WEEKS HOME AND BRINGING HOE THE SAME AMOUNT.......BUT THE BEST HUSTLE SO FAR IS THAT CODING ISH....MY COUSINS GIRL IS A PROGRAMMER THAT WORKS 2-4 HOURS A DAY PART TIME AND BRINGING HOME 50K. BUT SHE DO IT PROJECT BY PROJECT ON HER SCHEDULE..... <--- THIS RIGHT HERE IS GETTING PAID FOR YA SKILLSETS.

:yes::yes::yes::yes::clap::clap::clap:
 

Drayonis

Thedogyears.com
BGOL Investor
I honestly think there should be 3 day weekend. Some states have done that already for school districts. It'll do two things, give people more time to entertain and relax and also increase business across the board as more people will shop and what not
 
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blackbull1970

The Black Bastard
Platinum Member
A shorter work week will only be possible if the USA had Universal Basic Income to offset the reduction in pay.

Instead of shorting the work week, they could give Americans more vacation time. Instead of the normal 2 weeks, give Americans 4 weeks of vacation like they do in Europe.

Also, we need to have everybody taking holidays off. There is no reason mofos should be working on holidays like Thanksgiving and Christmas unless they are First Responders or hospital personnel.
 

havelcok

Rising Star
Platinum Member
Guy like me?
My W2 is 4 days
but i work extra days cause i want to be financially independent

been working 6 days a week for as long as i can remember
it helps that I love my job and find it easy

was 5 years till retirement
but just had a baby
 

Drayonis

Thedogyears.com
BGOL Investor
A shorter work week will only be possible if the USA had Universal Basic Income to offset the reduction in pay.

Instead of shorting the work week, they could give Americans more vacation time. Instead of the normal 2 weeks, give Americans 4 weeks of vacation like they do in Europe.

Also, we need to have everybody taking holidays off. There is no reason mofos should be working on holidays like Thanksgiving and Christmas unless they are First Responders or hospital personnel.

Entertainment facilities and stores are all doing it now. Trust me I know.
 

Rembrandt Brown

Slider
Registered
A shorter work week will only be possible if the USA had Universal Basic Income to offset the reduction in pay.

Instead of shorting the work week, they could give Americans more vacation time. Instead of the normal 2 weeks, give Americans 4 weeks of vacation like they do in Europe.

Also, we need to have everybody taking holidays off. There is no reason mofos should be working on holidays like Thanksgiving and Christmas unless they are First Responders or hospital personnel.

I wonder if the creation of new jobs can possibly keep up with technology's elimination of jobs.

If not, another reason we need universal basic income:

 

LordSinister

One Punch Mayne
Super Moderator
I only work 3 days a week and 9 months out of the year.
I work 6 months out of the year most years.

While at work I work 12-hour shifts for 28 straight days. Some times its 12 hours of reading, walking and working out. Some times its 12 hours of video monitoring. Every once and a while it's 12 hours of heavy labor out in the fucking sun. On the average, it's about 2 hours of work and ten of light work.
 

blackbull1970

The Black Bastard
Platinum Member
I wonder if the creation of new jobs can possibly keep up with technology's elimination of jobs.

If not, another reason we need universal basic income:



When you go to corporate mega fast food joints, they all have been redesigned to show the kitchen area in full.

If you stand there and really watch what is going on....all that equipment back there can be automated with just one or two people back there to unjam a machine or hit the reset button.

Automation is killing jobs faster than what people want to admit.

Look at garbage trucks, when I was a kid, there was like 3 or 4 guys on a truck jumping off and picking up cans and rotating driver duty.

Now it’s one guy operating a arm that picks up the can. Won’t be long before they get rid of him and have Drone trucks out there. There goes the job.

I think street sweeper trucks will be the first drone vehicles we see being they move real slow and it will give them time to work out the kinks.
 

gene cisco

Not A BGOL Eunuch
BGOL Investor
I wonder if the creation of new jobs can possibly keep up with technology's elimination of jobs.

If not, another reason we need universal basic income:


No way job creation can keep up. Fools will be wishing they took Andrew Yang's advice. He is ahead of his time with his Universal Income push.

People have to remember that oversaturated fields will have reduced pay. What happens when people flood into jobs like plumbing when robots and AI doing more things? Wages go down. Like Yang said, those truckers and other blue collar workers going to have to do something, and it probably ain't going to be STEM.

Technology is going to leave some industries absolutely flooded with people. Bunch of dinosaur politicians that aren't even addressing the problem. We may not need Universal Income now, but they should have some framework in place that is 90 percent ready to go for when it is needed.
 

havelcok

Rising Star
Platinum Member
No way job creation can keep up. Fools will be wishing they took Andrew Yang's advice. He is ahead of his time with his Universal Income push.

People have to remember that oversaturated fields will have reduced pay. What happens when people flood into jobs like plumbing when robots and AI doing more things? Wages go down. Like Yang said, those truckers and other blue collar workers going to have to do something, and it probably ain't going to be STEM.

Technology is going to leave some industries absolutely flooded with people. Bunch of dinosaur politicians that aren't even addressing the problem. We may not need Universal Income now, but they should have some framework in place that is 90 percent ready to go for when it is needed.


man needs to work
A man who has no work has no purpose
UBI will not help that
 
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