House Moving To Hold Holder In Contempt

[Upgrade Dave]

We? Be more specific.

"We", the collective. Even those of us who see this as ridiculous add to it by giving this type of outrageous talk even the slightest bit of air.

gun lobby = gun industry
Get rid of the Gun Show Loophole and this whole controversy would have never existed.


source: ABC News

Show Loophole Still Not Closed

It has been three years since Omar Samaha last saw his sister Reema alive. Reema was one of 32 victims whose life was taken in the tragic shootings at Virginia Tech University. This weekend marks the third anniversary.

Images of Reema dancing the weekend before the attacks are still fresh in her family's mind.

"It's nothing you really get over," family member Nina Samaha-Reiten said.

And three years later, Reema's family is also not over the fight; the fight to close what many consider a glaring loophole in Virginia's gun laws.

It is called the gun show "loophole" and as it exists, anyone can buy a gun from a private dealer without a background check.

And early this week, just one day before the third anniversary, three Virginia congressmen, urged their colleagues to reconsider closing the loophole.

Democrats Jim Moran, Bobby Scott and Gerald Conolly sent a letter to members of the House of Representatives asking them to support a bill requiring private sellers to perform background checks on buyers at gun shows.

One year ago ABC News followed Reema's brother Omar to a gun show in Richmond, Va. Within a few minutes of arriving, Omar was able to purchase a glock handgun, the same make of gun used to kill at Virginia Tech.

After one hour at the show, Omar walked away with a handful of guns, all purchased without one single background check.

Watching the entire transaction was former ATF agent Jerry Nunziato.

"There was nothing illegal about their transactions," Nunziato said.
In spite of the congressmen's recent appeal, three years later, those transactions are still perfectly legal. Many gun rights advocates say it should stay that way.

Last May a bill introduced to end the loophole has yet to be heard by committee or brought up for debate.

For Reema Samaha's family the fight continues.


_______________________________________________________________

My congressman discussing the issue with the AG.


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/51cmV1xHbl0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

On the bolded, I disagree. I think the two are connected but they aren't synonymous and interchangeable.
As I said, the actual gun industry is not under threat of losing one penny but the gun lobby has to keep shit stirred up to keep making money. The gun show loophole doesn't really affect the gun industry or anyone that owns a legitimate gun shop but by pretending that it does, the gun lobby gets those that are legitimate to rush to their side.

 

[Fuckallyall]

source: Wikipedia

ATF gunwalking scandal

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) ran a series of "gunwalking" sting operations<SUP id=cite_ref-csm1_1-0 class=reference>[2]</SUP><SUP id=cite_ref-wapoa_2-0 class=reference>[3]</SUP> between 2006<SUP id=cite_ref-npr1_3-0 class=reference>[4]</SUP> and 2011.<SUP id=cite_ref-csm1_1-1 class=reference>[2]</SUP><SUP id=cite_ref-nyt1_4-0 class=reference>[5]</SUP> This was done under the umbrella of Project Gunrunner, a project intended to stem the flow of firearms into Mexico by interdicting straw purchasers and gun traffickers within the United States.<SUP id=cite_ref-atf1_5-0 class=reference>[6]</SUP> "Gunwalking" or "letting guns walk" was a tactic whereby the ATF knowingly allowed thousands of guns to be bought by suspected arms traffickers ...


source: ATF


<ABBR></ABBR>
Project Gunrunner


Gun trafficking to Mexico is a nationwide problem with consequences on both sides of the border. In response, <ABBR>ATF</ABBR> implemented Project Gunrunner in 2006 as a comprehensive strategy to reduce firearms and explosives related violent crime associated with Mexican criminal organizations operating in the U.S. and Mexico by preventing these organizations from unlawfully acquiring and trafficking firearms and explosives. Through Project Gunrunner, <ABBR>ATF</ABBR> works in conjunction with its domestic and international law enforcement partners to identify, disrupt, and dismantle the firearms and explosives trafficking infrastructure of criminal organizations operating in Mexico, along the border, and other areas of the U.S.

Project Gunrunner’s objective is to deny Mexican drug cartels the <Q>tools of the trade,</Q> which they employ to murder rival drug traffickers, civilians, as well as political, military, and law enforcement figures in order to strengthen their grip on the lucrative drug and firearms routes into and out of the United States.

The cornerstone of Project Gunrunner is intelligence-led firearms trafficking investigations. This process involves the collection of information from a variety of sources such as Federal Firearms Licensees, ballistic and forensic analysis, and data derived from firearms tracing in addition to traditional intelligence sources and methods. This information is then synthesized, analyzed and appropriate leads are disseminated to <ABBR>ATF</ABBR> field offices for investigative action. The information is also shared with our Federal, State, local and tribal partners, as well as our Mexican law enforcement counterparts, each contributing their unique capabilities and resources, forming a multi-layered, comprehensive approach to disrupting firearms trafficking and drug-related violence.

Project Gunrunner investigations have resulted in the identification and prosecution of firearms trafficking organizations in all parts of the United States, from Minnesota to Florida to all our border states, where <ABBR>ATF</ABBR> criminal intelligence and tracing data has provided valuable leads used in identifying individuals and organizations providing firearms to Mexican criminal enterprises.

In 2009, <ABBR>ATF</ABBR> established several new offices dedicated to Project Gunrunner firearms trafficking investigations in McAllen, Texas, El Centro, California, and Las Cruces, New Mexico, including a satellite office in Roswell, New Mexico, in addition to new Gunrunner teams in Tucson, Arizona and El Paso, Texas. In September 2010, <ABBR>ATF</ABBR> announced plans to expand Project Gunrunner by opening additional Gunrunner offices in Sierra Vista, Arizona, and Brownsville, Texas. Additional expansion plans include the opening of three new offices located in U.S. Consulates in Mexico, as well as adding additional investigative and analytical staff to the <ABBR>ATF</ABBR> Country Office in Mexico City. These steps will allow for more timely and effective collaboration among the various law enforcement partners dedicated to Project Gunrunner.

Today, there are nearly 4,500 active Project Gunrunner investigations throughout the United States. Since its inception in 2006, and through Fiscal Year 2010, <ABBR>ATF</ABBR>’s Project Gunrunner has recommended over 1,100 criminal cases and in excess of 2,500 defendants for prosecution. To date, Project Gunrunner investigations have resulted in the seizure of over 10,000 firearms and nearly one million rounds of ammunition destined for Mexico.

Thanks. But being under the umbrella of something does make it the same.

When did officials start letting guns get out of the country without having information about them stored ? Did it start in the previous administration? This administration has actually been caught being at the least wrong on this issue. They originally said that the subject guns nnever got out of the country. Then they said that the subject guns were not involved in Mexican gun play.

As much as you may deny it, I have no love for the previous administration. But I want to keep the books straight on where the blame lies.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Thanks. But being under the umbrella of something does make it the same.

When did officials start letting guns get out of the country without having information about them stored ? Did it start in the previous administration? This administration has actually been caught being at the least wrong on this issue. They originally said that the subject guns nnever got out of the country. Then they said that the subject guns were not involved in Mexican gun play.

As much as you may deny it, I have no love for the previous administration. But I want to keep the books straight on where the blame lies.

All legitimate questions where I quibble is the use of the word "Administration". This was a law enforcement issue where somewhere the Justice Dept dropped the ball. But in the zeal to make this a political issue, nothing is being resolved and it's become just another Washington mess.

 

[thoughtone]

On the bolded, I disagree. I think the two are connected but they aren't synonymous and interchangeable.

Let's agree to disagree for the sake of veering from the main topic. However, the nexus for this issue is that the gun lobby refuses to allow the Gun Show Loophole to be closed. Why? Maximum sales for firearm manufactures, damn the safety and lives of any federal agent.

 

[Fuckallyall]

All legitimate questions where I quibble is the use of the word "Administration". This was a law enforcement issue where somewhere the Justice Dept dropped the ball. But in the zeal to make this a political issue, nothing is being resolved and it's become just another Washington mess.

I don't agree, especially after reading the whole article that TO cited. A gun we allowed to sell, and get into the hands of a criminal enterprise, killed people, including one of our own law enforcement. It's like letting guns go to Al Queda, be used to kill our servicemen just to find out who used them. And then initially denied that it ever took place !

 

[thoughtone]

Thanks. But being under the umbrella of something does make it the same.

When did officials start letting guns get out of the country without having information about them stored ? Did it start in the previous administration? This administration has actually been caught being at the least wrong on this issue. They originally said that the subject guns nnever got out of the country. Then they said that the subject guns were not involved in Mexican gun play.

As much as you may deny it, I have no love for the previous administration. But I want to keep the books straight on where the blame lies.

Even you have to admit that every administration has the right to conduct policy as it pleases, even policies and programs continued from previous administration. As was stated in my previous post, AG Holder has released some 1700 documents directly to Issa and agreed to release more in private. You may legitimately question the very existence. results or competency of how Project Gunrunner was conducted by either administration, but I see no evidence of AG Holder stonewalling the congressional probe. I think this is just another attempt to try and embarrass President Obama in a political scandal.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I don't agree, especially after reading the whole article that TO cited. A gun we allowed to sell, and get into the hands of a criminal enterprise, killed people, including one of our own law enforcement. It's like letting guns go to Al Queda, be used to kill our servicemen just to find out who used them. And then initially denied that it ever took place !

No. Law enforcement and the military work in completely different ways so that analogy is fatally flawed. Cops, local or federal, need evidence while soldiers just need targets.

 

[Fuckallyall]

No. Law enforcement and the military work in completely different ways so that analogy is fatally flawed. Cops, local or federal, need evidence while soldiers just need targets.

Partially agreed. But both civilian and military components need and use intelligence gathering techniques, and in this country, neither is supposed to accept the letting of our own arms into the enemies hands to accomplish a mission.

 

[Fuckallyall]

Even you have to admit that every administration has the right to conduct policy as it pleases, even policies and programs continued from previous administration. As was stated in my previous post, AG Holder has released some 1700 documents directly to Issa and agreed to release more in private. You may legitimately question the very existence. results or competency of how Project Gunrunner was conducted by either administration, but I see no evidence of AG Holder stonewalling the congressional probe. I think this is just another attempt to try and embarrass President Obama in a political scandal.

True, but not when those policies go against the already established laws of the state. And it is illegal to allow those guns to leave the country with the people they left with. Furthermore, you should know what is going on with the programs you have active under your watch.

Also, Holder seems to have been caught contradicting himself on several occasions. That merits investigation. Whether it is by congress, I don't know. But it merits investigation. Especially when weapons you allow to be sold comes back and kills those you told to sell them.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Partially agreed. But both civilian and military components need and use intelligence gathering techniques, and in this country, neither is supposed to accept the letting of our own arms into the enemies hands to accomplish a mission.

It's not that unusual for police to allow evidence to be acquired by people they're investigating.
The problem with this isn't that they were doing it but that they allowed guns to get away from them.

 

[thoughtone]

True, but not when those policies go against the already established laws of the state. And it is illegal to allow those guns to leave the country with the people they left with. Furthermore, you should know what is going on with the programs you have active under your watch.

Also, Holder seems to have been caught contradicting himself on several occasions. That merits investigation. Whether it is by congress, I don't know. But it merits investigation. Especially when weapons you allow to be sold comes back and kills those you told to sell them.

Isn't that what they are doing? No AG in the history of the republic has been held in contempt of congress.

Another Republican dog an pony show.


After 10 plus years of tax cuts, where are the jobs?


September 23, 2010
Republican Party releases Pledge to America, jobs first priority it says

 

[Fuckallyall]

Isn't that what they are doing? No AG in the history of the republic has been held in contempt of congress.

Another Republican dog an pony show.


After 10 plus years of tax cuts, where are the jobs?


September 23, 2010
Republican Party releases Pledge to America, jobs first priority it says

Where is there a law stating that congress cannot hold an AG in contempt ?

Traditionally, I think that the separation of powers clause may prevent this, but, there are also checks and balances.

And over the past 10 years, there have been many jobs, but they are not here now. This post is not for that. Stay on task.

 

[thoughtone]

Where is there a law stating that congress cannot hold an AG in contempt ?

Traditionally, I think that the separation of powers clause may prevent this, but, there are also checks and balances.

And over the past 10 years, there have been many jobs, but they are not here now. This post is not for that. Stay on task.

What a coincidence. Never happened before. Happening now. Doesn't that make you throw up a red flag based on all the rancor against this administration?

Don't play stupid and be like actinanass. On second thought, he is not playing.

 

[actinanass]

No, you are a fool. You have no credibility.

Name an industry that hasn't exploited Black folks and I'll tell you of I like it. Of course the government is feeding you.

Yet, you have all the credibility. So typical...

So, in your eyes, every industry has exploited the black community except for the government?

BTW, why are you so angry? Could it be that you are deeply worried about this election. In fact, I've notice a spike in your activity on this board. I wonder what that's all about.

I'm worried about you dude. Seriously....

 

[Lamarr]

Yet, you have all the credibility. So typical...

So, in your eyes, every industry has exploited the black community except for the government?

BTW, why are you so angry? Could it be that you are deeply worried about this election. In fact, I've notice a spike in your activity on this board. I wonder what that's all about.

I'm worried about you dude. Seriously....

Thought1 is all over the map with his arguments, from tax cuts to the gun lobby!

The thread is simply about what EH di or didn't provide!

I'll go out on a limb and predict this erratic posting pattern will only get worse the closer to the election.

 

[actinanass]

Thought1 is all over the map with his arguments, from tax cuts to the gun lobby!

The thread is simply about what EH di or didn't provide!

I'll go out on a limb and predict this erratic posting pattern will only get worse the closer to the election.

I thought I was the only who notice how he was acting.

Seriously, I don't want Obama to be in the same category with Nixon. He is still the first black president. That's why I haven't went in on him like I really should be. The reality is, if Obama looks like he has damaged the presidency with scandal, the left would only become worse than they are right now. Obama really should consider getting rid of Holder, but sadly, I think its too late.

 

[thoughtone]

Thought1 is all over the map with his arguments, from tax cuts to the gun lobby!

The thread is simply about what EH di or didn't provide!

I'll go out on a limb and predict this erratic posting pattern will only get worse the closer to the election.

This NRA created dtory will be over in a couple of weeks.

Go Ron Paul!

 

[Fuckallyall]

What a coincidence. Never happened before. Happening now. Doesn't that make you throw up a red flag based on all the rancor against this administration?
QUOTE]

It has made me think. But like I said before, we have an instance where we knowingly told our agents to let guns actually go, and at least one of those guns came back and was used to kill one of our agents, and then the person incharge of that program has been shown to be at least inaccurate in several basic facts regarding that situation.

If we bitched over Iran-Conrtra (and we rightfully did), this should be investigated too. I think the President should do it since it is his branch, but I have big doubts thats going to happen.

 

[thoughtone]

What a coincidence. Never happened before. Happening now. Doesn't that make you throw up a red flag based on all the rancor against this administration?

It has made me think. But like I said before, we have an instance where we knowingly told our agents to let guns actually go, and at least one of those guns came back and was used to kill one of our agents, and then the person incharge of that program has been shown to be at least inaccurate in several basic facts regarding that situation.

If we bitched over Iran-Conrtra (and we rightfully did), this should be investigated too. I think the President should do it since it is his branch, but I have big doubts thats going to happen.

Wrong facts, non linear analogy.

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source: Media Matters


Hannity Lets His Guests Peddle Discredited Fast And Furious Conspiracy Theory

Sean Hannity is not big on correcting false claims made by the guests on his Fox News show. On June 19, for instance, it was Mitt Romney whose numerous false claims Hannity let stand uncorrected.

On the June 20 edition of Hannity, two separate guests pushed the claim that the Obama administration deliberately created the Fast and Furious operation in order to undermine the Second Amendment. First, Fox News contributor Michelle Malkin asserted that the Obama administration "let [the guns] go because they had an underlying gun-control agenda."

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Monica Crowley, also a Fox News contributor, said later in the show that Fast and Furious "may not have been" a "botched operation," adding: "Maybe -- and this is just speculation -- but maybe what they are trying to hide here is the fact that was all by design. ... That everything they do is by design, and that this operation was set up as an assault on the Second Amendment. In other words, flood the zone with guns, actually have some dead bodies -- I don't think they intended American dead bodies -- but then trace the guns back to the United States as an excuse to crack down on legal gun ownership."

<EMBED height=240 type=application/x-shockwave-flash width=320 src=http://cloudfront.mediamatters.org/static/flash/pl55.swf allowfullscreen="true" wmode="transparent" allowscriptaccess="always" flashvars="config=http://mediamatters.org/embed/cfg3?f=/static/clips/2012/06/20/25170/fnc-hannity-20120620-crowleyconspiracy.flv">

In fact, head of the House's investigation into Fast and Furious, Republican Rep. Darrell Issa, wrote last month in a memorandum and accompanying report that the Fast and Furious operation "was conceived because law enforcement officials "hoped the weapons, after they were recovered at crime scenes in Mexico, could be traced and linked to cartel operatives including possible high-level financiers, suppliers, and possibly even king-pins." A June 2011 "joint staff report" prepared for Issa and Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA) came to a similar conclusion.

Nevertheless, Fox News reporters, anchors and commentators have repeatedly pushed this baseless conspiracy theory on the channel.

Likewise, Hannity made no move to correct either Malkin or Crowley.

 

[thoughtone]

Yet, you have all the credibility. So typical...

At least your learning something.

 

[QueEx]

 

[thoughtone]

Spot the Republican!

 

[actinanass]

Wrong facts, non linear analogy.

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source: Media Matters


Hannity Lets His Guests Peddle Discredited Fast And Furious Conspiracy Theory

Sean Hannity is not big on correcting false claims made by the guests on his Fox News show. On June 19, for instance, it was Mitt Romney whose numerous false claims Hannity let stand uncorrected.

On the June 20 edition of Hannity, two separate guests pushed the claim that the Obama administration deliberately created the Fast and Furious operation in order to undermine the Second Amendment. First, Fox News contributor Michelle Malkin asserted that the Obama administration "let [the guns] go because they had an underlying gun-control agenda."

<EMBED height=240 type=application/x-shockwave-flash width=320 src=http://cloudfront.mediamatters.org/static/flash/pl55.swf allowfullscreen="true" wmode="transparent" allowscriptaccess="always" flashvars="config=http://mediamatters.org/embed/cfg3?f=/static/clips/2012/06/20/25169/fnc-hannity-20120620-malkinconspiracy.flv"></EMBED></OBJECT>

Monica Crowley, also a Fox News contributor, said later in the show that Fast and Furious "may not have been" a "botched operation," adding: "Maybe -- and this is just speculation -- but maybe what they are trying to hide here is the fact that was all by design. ... That everything they do is by design, and that this operation was set up as an assault on the Second Amendment. In other words, flood the zone with guns, actually have some dead bodies -- I don't think they intended American dead bodies -- but then trace the guns back to the United States as an excuse to crack down on legal gun ownership."

<EMBED height=240 type=application/x-shockwave-flash width=320 src=http://cloudfront.mediamatters.org/static/flash/pl55.swf allowfullscreen="true" wmode="transparent" allowscriptaccess="always" flashvars="config=http://mediamatters.org/embed/cfg3?f=/static/clips/2012/06/20/25170/fnc-hannity-20120620-crowleyconspiracy.flv">

In fact, head of the House's investigation into Fast and Furious, Republican Rep. Darrell Issa, wrote last month in a memorandum and accompanying report that the Fast and Furious operation "was conceived because law enforcement officials "hoped the weapons, after they were recovered at crime scenes in Mexico, could be traced and linked to cartel operatives including possible high-level financiers, suppliers, and possibly even king-pins." A June 2011 "joint staff report" prepared for Issa and Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA) came to a similar conclusion.

Nevertheless, Fox News reporters, anchors and commentators have repeatedly pushed this baseless conspiracy theory on the channel.

Likewise, Hannity made no move to correct either Malkin or Crowley.

At least your learning something.

Spot the Republican!

When you're side doesn't have shit to defend their argument, result to so-called personal attacks.

Another typical temper tantrum from our great friends who supports the left. They can't deal with being on the losing side of the issues.

Another sign that we are dealing with mental midgets *oh im sorry, Little People*.

 

[thoughtone]

When you're side doesn't have shit to defend their argument, result to so-called personal attacks..

Why so angry?

 

[Fuckallyall]

You just proved my point. The first conference on what was to become Operation Fast and Furious was held October 26, 2009. The current AG was sworn into office February 3, 2009. All of the other operations on the gun running invstigations were not tailored to let the guns leave the country, must less poorly tracked.

How is anything I said incorrect or non-linear ?

Edit: Operation Wide Receiver was different in two big ways

1. The guns were lost as they came over the border by Mexican authorities who "lost track" of the suspects, and,
2. When the ATF found out that they were lost, they shut down the Op.

 

[actinanass]

Why so angry?

Who said I was angry?

You just proved my point. The first conference on what was to become Operation Fast and Furious was held October 26, 2009. The current AG was sworn into office February 3, 2009. All of the other operations on the gun running invstigations were not tailored to let the guns leave the country, must less poorly tracked.

How is anything I said incorrect or non-linear ?

Edit: Operation Wide Receiver was different in two big ways

1. The guns were lost as they came over the border by Mexican authorities who "lost track" of the suspects, and,
2. When the ATF found out that they were lost, they shut down the Op.

He's not interested in any facts that contradicts the overall narrative. Remember, if it contradicts his line of thinking then it has no credibility.

 

[MASTERBAKER]

Rachel Maddow » Bill Maher vs Nick Gillespie in Epic Showdown Over Fast & Furious

Rachel Maddow » Bill Maher vs Nick Gillespie in Epic Showdown Over Fast & Furious

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-nONWjef_YA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

not m/b view below

Extreme Liberal Ignorance On Display

Bill Maher starts off saying he never knew a thing about the gun scandal and still hasn't paid attention to it, accuses Republicans of being uninformed, the begins to talk about how it is no big deal...oh and it's because Holder and Obama are black. In the end, he falls into the trap set up by Fast and Furious by saying it is too easy to get guns in the USA...Like duh Bill, that is exactly what Holder was trying to make you think. Next Madcow says Bush started it, and Obama ended it (that is why that Obama knew in 2009 vid is so important). Nick Gilespie and Mort Z actually are informed and try to explain the contempt issue, and Maher and Madcow immediately call it a Republican thing so it should be ignored and go on to say they are not partisan at all.

The level of ignorance shown by Maher and Madcow is shocking to me, and not much shocks me anymore.

This is why this country desperately needs a Fox news channel. When the media picks sides, you need to give voice to all sides.

The wishy washy liberal cover-up BS would never happen if Bush was in power.

liberals can not separate their "Feelings" from "Facts"

Thus explains that liberalism is a Mental Disorder.

Agent Brian Terry died under Obama's Operation Fast and Furious - FACT!

How about the deregulation of Jan Brewer and Joe Arpaio which also aided Fast and Furious right under their noses, aint they the ones wanting to control their State within borders? Maybe the AZ citizen's don't care to hear, but we all know Fox News just hasn't taught its viewers this fact yet.

maybe, maybe not. who really cares? as long as america continues this "left vs. right" and all the other divisionary bullshit we will continue to spiral downward.

 

[QueEx]

Another sign that we are dealing with mental midgets *oh im sorry, Little People*.

I waited several days hoping that you would explain or clarify the statement above, but you haven't. So, I'll just ask: please explain.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

It has made me think. But like I said before, we have an instance where we knowingly told our agents to let guns actually go, and at least one of those guns came back and was used to kill one of our agents, and then the person incharge of that program has been shown to be at least inaccurate in several basic facts regarding that situation.

If we bitched over Iran-Conrtra (and we rightfully did), this should be investigated too. I think the President should do it since it is his branch, but I have big doubts thats going to happen.

It is being investigated and it should be. It's the political opportunism and distortion that has made many people skeptical about Issa and his actual goals.

I thought I was the only who notice how he was acting.

Seriously, I don't want Obama to be in the same category with Nixon. He is still the first black president. That's why I haven't went in on him like I really should be. The reality is, if Obama looks like he has damaged the presidency with scandal, the left would only become worse than they are right now. Obama really should consider getting rid of Holder, but sadly, I think its too late.

Just utter crazy talk. Even Issa has said there is no evidence that the White House had anything to do with "Fast and Furious" and he said that on Fox News.
Get rid of Holder because of the right wing smear machine which hasn't produced anything to prove Holder did anything wrong? When/if Holder is found to have actually done something wrong, then he should be removed, not before.

 

[Lamarr]

Boehner: House Will Go Ahead With Contempt Vote

WASHINGTON (AP) — Speaker John Boehner (BAY'-nur) says the House will move forward with a contempt of Congress vote against Attorney General Eric Holder over the botched gun-tracking operation known as Fast and Furious.

The Ohio Republican told reporters Wednesday that last-minute talks with the White House about releasing documents had failed to avert the vote. President Barack Obama has asserted executive privilege to keep the documents secret, but Republicans say there's no basis for that.

The issue has political implications this election year. The National Rifle Association is keeping score, prompting some Democrats to join Republicans in voting for contempt. Such a citation would not cause the release of more documents on the operation, in which guns were allowed to "walk" from Arizona to Mexico in hopes they could be tracked.

 

[actinanass]

It is being investigated and it should be. It's the political opportunism and distortion that has made many people skeptical about Issa and his actual goals.





Just utter crazy talk. Even Issa has said there is no evidence that the White House had anything to do with "Fast and Furious" and he said that on Fox News.
Get rid of Holder because of the right wing smear machine which hasn't produced anything to prove Holder did anything wrong? When/if Holder is found to have actually done something wrong, then he should be removed, not before.

The why the EP?

I say get rid of Holder because he isn't doing his job. This is just a cherry on top IMO.

 

[actinanass]

I waited several days hoping that you would explain or clarify the statement above, but you haven't. So, I'll just ask: please explain.

Well, for one, some people on this board *including yourself* tend to always side with the president on nearly every issue. Thus, why I've been fairly quiet for roughly three months. Last week was the first time, in a long time, I've debated about anything political. I've stated what I believe President Obama has to do to win reelection. He does basically the opposite. Therefore, IMO the writing is on the wall. Anyone who thinks otherwise are either delusional, or uninformed about how politics work.

Reality, the political playbook Obama is running has only worked when the economy is in good shape. Romney stay focus, and do not fall into the social issues trap liberals set out, he should win big. All this stuff President Obama is pulling right now will end up looking very desperate.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I say get rid of Holder because he isn't doing his job. This is just a cherry on top IMO.

What is he not doing? Since this is the "cherryon top" that means there's something else you feel he's failed at, what would that be?

Well, for one, some people on this board *including yourself* tend to always side with the president on nearly every issue. Thus, why I've been fairly quiet for roughly three months. Last week was the first time, in a long time, I've debated about anything political. I've stated what I believe President Obama has to do to win reelection. He does basically the opposite. Therefore, IMO the writing is on the wall. Anyone who thinks otherwise are either delusional, or uninformed about how politics work.

Considering he's won three elections and you haven't, I'll go with him and his team's reasoning over yours.
Taking the advice of a Limbaugh listener would be akin to political malpractice.

Reality, the political playbook Obama is running has only worked when the economy is in good shape. Romney stay focus, and do not fall into the social issues trap liberals set out, he should win big. All this stuff President Obama is pulling right now will end up looking very desperate.

Ridiculous. There would be no talk of social issues if Republicans, on the state level and in the Congress, weren't steadily pushing anti-abortion and anti-woman bills AND pushing and passing bills to suppress the votes of people more likely to vote for Democrats.

You might need to go back to your sabbatical. You haven't gotten any better at this.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Interesting development

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/

A Fortune investigation reveals that the ATF never intentionally allowed guns to fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels. How the world came to believe just the opposite is a tale of rivalry, murder, and political bloodlust.

 

[thoughtone]

The conservative republican controlled Congressional job approval rating is 17% Any wonder why?

source: The Hill

NRA to score Holder contempt vote

The National Rifle Association (NRA) will score a House panel vote to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt.

The NRA has longstanding issues with Holder, something it said was "no secret" in a letter the group wrote to leaders of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee announcing its decision.

The nation's most powerful gun lobbyist group said it has decided to score the vote over Holder's handling of the "Fast and Furious" program because of what the group calls the "open defiance" of the Department of Justice (DOJ) in the face of a congressional investigation into the botched gun-running operation.


In a letter to leaders of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, which is spearheading the investigation, the NRA's chief lobbyist warned that the highly influential firearms advocate will be watching closely as lawmakers cast their votes on contempt.

"This is an issue of the utmost seriousness," Chris Cox wrote, "and the NRA will consider this vote in our future candidate evaluations."

The NRA has been a sharp critic of Holder since he became head of DOJ. The group claims he is "anti-Second Amendment" for efforts like his push to reinstate the assault weapons ban and, more recently, to require border-state gun dealers to report bulk purchases of assault weapons.

But the NRA's support for the contempt vote, Cox said, is independent of past grievances.

"The reason we support the contempt resolution is the same reason we first called for Attorney General Holder’s resignation more than a year ago: the Department’s obstruction of congressional oversight of a program that cost lives in support of an anti-gun agenda," Cox wrote.

The Fast and Furious program has been under the spotlight for more than a year, after it was reported that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) put firearms into the hands of known drug smugglers in order to track them to Mexican cartel leaders.

Hundreds of those firearms have gone missing, and several have been linked indirectly to the murder of border patrol agent Brian Terry, who was killed in a December 2010 firefight in Arizona.

Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.), chairman of the House Oversight panel, has launched an investigation and demanded reams of documents from Holder, who has declined to reveal certain information.

On Monday, Holder met with Issa, Rep. Elijah Cummings (Md.), the ranking Democrat on Issa’s committee, and Sens. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.) and Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) — the leaders of the Senate Judiciary Committee — in an attempt to reach some agreement. But Issa left the meeting saying he was “disappointed” with the documents Holder had offered, and vowed to stage a Wednesday vote in the committee to hold the attorney general in contempt of Congress.

Adding a new twist to the saga, just before the hearing got underway Wednesday morning, the White House announced that it would invoke executive privilege to prevent Issa from obtaining the withheld documents. The move sparked a firestorm of criticism from Republicans —already incensed about last week's unilateral move by the administration to forego deportations for young illegal immigrants — that the White House is overstepping its constitutional authority.

“The assertion of executive privilege raises monumental questions,” Grassley said in a statement. “Is something very big being hidden to go to this extreme?”

The executive action did nothing to dissuade Issa, whose committee will still stage its contempt vote on Wednesday.