HBO Boxing

[Upgrade Dave]

His own camp actually said they thought he lost by two rounds...but they were on that one judge that gave 11 rounds to PW

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=23953

That's the only dark cloud over this great fight, a fight so good that both fighters are elevated. A judge to give 11 rds. to either fighter was just ridiculous and embarassing to Williams and HBO.

Maybe the guy thought he was doing what HBO wanted. I doubt we'll see much of him for the foreseeable future.

 

[Alaskanredman]

Not one disagreeable point. Jermain's too young to give it up but if he keeps doing things the way he has, the decision won't be his for long.

I don't see Jermain quitting the fight game, but it is getting too a point were he is taking so many L's, I don't know if he will be able to get top fights any more. He's be coming the tough Journey man that up n comers prove their worth with.

This fight should be a wakeup call to PW. He might not be able to do much about his vulnerability to good counterpuncher, he's an aggressive guy. But he's definitely got to work on his D. He's tough and has a good chin but he took too many clean punches to the head. Just for the sake of his own health, he should learn to cut that out. I did see he put his hands up more when Martinez was popping him with that overhand right, so there's hope that he doesn't just rely on his natural skills.

One thing Williams can do about counterpunchers is to stop throwing punches for the sake of throwing punches. He was wide open for counters because he was throwing and committing to all type of out-of-range punches.

I know his style is activity, but that pressure only works against stationary targets. He has to learn how to cut off the ring and then punch. He needs to learn that how to throw range-finding jabs so if it does not land, he isn't completely open.

I think if Martinez had Pavlik's power it would have been over for Williams because he was taking too many clean shots. Then again maybe Williams chin would have ate those punches to but too much of that shit will damage his brain.

 

[rude_dog]

His own camp actually said they thought he lost by two rounds...but they were on that one judge that gave 11 rounds to PW

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=23953

I don't think that Martinez is a Gary Shaw fighter, Martinez is with Lou Dibella.

It's interesting to note that the other 2 judges gave Paul Williams the first round, 10-9, even though Martinez staggered Williams and put him down hard at the end of the round when Williams only scored a flash knockdown.

That was a house decision.

 

[Spectrum]

That's the only dark cloud over this great fight, a fight so good that both fighters are elevated. A judge to give 11 rds. to either fighter was just ridiculous and embarassing to Williams and HBO.

Maybe the guy thought he was doing what HBO wanted. I doubt we'll see much of him for the foreseeable future.

Yeah. That shit was ridiculous man. I still cant beleive it.

 

[Alaskanredman]

That's the only dark cloud over this great fight, a fight so good that both fighters are elevated. A judge to give 11 rds. to either fighter was just ridiculous and embarassing to Williams and HBO.

Maybe the guy thought he was doing what HBO wanted. I doubt we'll see much of him for the foreseeable future.

If dude was fucking over Martinez for HBO or whoever, I would hope dude would have a enough sense to be reasonable about it. 11 rds or 2 rds still equals a victory. As a kid, I enough sense to get some answers wrong when I cheated on test.

This might be HBO's way of forcing rematches and creating drama around fights that people don't normally check for.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

If dude was fucking over Martinez for HBO or whoever, I would hope dude would have a enough sense to be reasonable about it. 11 rds or 2 rds still equals a victory. As a kid, I enough sense to get some answers wrong when I cheated on test.

This might be HBO's way of forcing rematches and creating drama around fights that people don't normally check for.

I don't think it was an outright "rig this fight" type of conspiracy but there's just no logical reason for 119-110.

 

[TJervey]

A lot of people hate it...but fights like this really state a case for open scoring...even if it's open scoring on total rounds won, instead of actual points totals. Though no option is infallible, it is a shame that a fight like this, where both fighters laid it out there, put on an amazing show, and should be the focal points of any post fight discussion, are pushed into the background because of an inept judge.

Even if the scoring is show in a 4 round interval, i.e. at the 8th round rounds won PW 4/SM 3 1 Even). Some shit like that. It still keeps some of the suspense of the final scoring, but bullshit like that 119-110 score card can be exposed long before it is fucking up the results. Do rounds won on each judges score card openly, and a lot of the corruption will be exposed. This has been one of the worst years for bullshit scoring, Malinaggi v. Diaz, Funeka v. Guzman, this fight...shit is getting out of control!!!!

 

[TJervey]

I don't think it was an outright "rig this fight" type of conspiracy but there's just no logical reason for 119-110.

I do believe unless a fighter clearly dominates the network house fighter, there is no real way they can win a 'close' decision. That being said, either fighter winning by a round or two was not out of the question for this fight. As well as Martinez fought, I think the perception of being robbed was more out of shock...'Oh Shit, I though PW was the truth and should be dominating this guy', than Martinez actually dominating the fight. Paul did his work too, the other guy just put up a serious fight as well. Good fight, Bad judge, I just want to see if PW is going to give him a rematch, with all of his nobody wants to fight me posturing. It may not be more money for him on the front end, but giving him a rematch, and maybe even dominating him with more chance to prepare for his style will definitely benefit him...sort of like how Floyd distanced himself from Castillo and their first fight by being more dominant in the immediate rematch..

 

[Upgrade Dave]

A lot of people hate it...but fights like this really state a case for open scoring...even if it's open scoring on total rounds won, instead of actual points totals. Though no option is infallible, it is a shame that a fight like this, where both fighters laid it out there, put on an amazing show, and should be the focal points of any post fight discussion, are pushed into the background because of an inept judge.

Even if the scoring is show in a 4 round interval, i.e. at the 8th round rounds won PW 4/SM 3 1 Even). Some shit like that. It still keeps some of the suspense of the final scoring, but bullshit like that 119-110 score card can be exposed long before it is fucking up the results. Do rounds won on each judges score card openly, and a lot of the corruption will be exposed. This has been one of the worst years for bullshit scoring, Malinaggi v. Diaz, Funeka v. Guzman, this fight...shit is getting out of control!!!!

When they've tried open scoring, it's been a disaster. The guy ahead just sits on his lead and kills the fight.

There have been some outrageous results but they've, thankfully, rare, if high profile.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I do believe unless a fighter clearly dominates the network house fighter, there is no real way they can win a 'close' decision. That being said, either fighter winning by a round or two was not out of the question for this fight. As well as Martinez fought, I think the perception of being robbed was more out of shock...'Oh Shit, I though PW was the truth and should be dominating this guy', than Martinez actually dominating the fight. Paul did his work too, the other guy just put up a serious fight as well. Good fight, Bad judge, I just want to see if PW is going to give him a rematch, with all of his nobody wants to fight me posturing. It may not be more money for him on the front end, but giving him a rematch, and maybe even dominating him with more chance to prepare for his style will definitely benefit him...sort of like how Floyd distanced himself from Castillo and their first fight by being more dominant in the immediate rematch..

I agree with that part. The robbery talk is based more on people not knowing Sergio Martinez than what actually happened in the fight.

As I said before, Paul's options are to fight Martinez again for more money or nobody for nothing. As we've seen, he's 1-0 in rematches.

 

[TJervey]

When they've tried open scoring, it's been a disaster. The guy ahead just sits on his lead and kills the fight.

There have been some outrageous results but they've, thankfully, rare, if high profile.

I feel you...these types of decision are becoming more prevalent though. Maybe there should be some type of enforcement of Judge integrity or something...I am trying to find the story but I remember a few years back where a fighter and his camp actually murdered a judge for a fucked up score card that cost him a fight...title, etc. Turned out the fighter had some associates put a lot of money on him in the fight, and he dominated Dude, but the judging was suspect and he lost. They found the Judge a few days later with his throat cut and shit, tortured. I don't condone this but, shit like this could make an unstable person snap!!!

 

[patscorpio]

On point on all counts Fam!!!

The issue with Taylor was, he had Olympic-itis, like David Reid did back in the day. He had some talent, but HBO needed a rising star, so he was brought along too soon, given accolades he hadn't earned, and when you are young and getting all that hype, it tends to affect you mentally. I totally believe he lost the second Hopkins fight, but nobody up to that point had gotten that close to even earn a disputed decision to BHop, who was a thorn in HBO's ass...so they assured he would be put in a secondary position in the MW division. Then, he fought Winky tough, who I believe was a good fight for him due to his limited power, and if he was smart, he would have learned from the fight. Pavlik was all wrong because he could punch, something that Taylors people more often than not avoided, and when his chin got checked, because of his inflated self image as a fighter, he still hasn't figured out how to regroup. For instance this Tournament, he needs to back out, regroup, maybe get with a new team, and rebuild himself, both physically and mentally. Just like David Reid, those knockouts might destroy his career...

i like your argument but david reid was a different animal altogether...the man was on borrowed time due to that droopy eyelid of his....that was what destroyed his career.....with that condition he wasn't going to last in boxing long....thats why he was brought up real fast....still throwing him in with tito in his 12th pro fight was a huge mistake as tito beat whatever prime reid had in him...how that fight went the distance is beyond me....he was cashed out in that fight plain and simple...also david reid was only stopped once and that was in his last fight

 

[Alaskanredman]

I don't think it was an outright "rig this fight" type of conspiracy but there's just no logical reason for 119-110.

I have noticed that these wacky judges a ways seem to be apart of good fights that have no hype around them.

If it isn't rigged they need to ban judges like this for life.

 

[Alaskanredman]

I do believe unless a fighter clearly dominates the network house fighter, there is no real way they can win a 'close' decision. That being said, either fighter winning by a round or two was not out of the question for this fight. As well as Martinez fought, I think the perception of being robbed was more out of shock...'Oh Shit, I though PW was the truth and should be dominating this guy', than Martinez actually dominating the fight. Paul did his work too, the other guy just put up a serious fight as well. Good fight, Bad judge, I just want to see if PW is going to give him a rematch, with all of his nobody wants to fight me posturing. It may not be more money for him on the front end, but giving him a rematch, and maybe even dominating him with more chance to prepare for his style will definitely benefit him...sort of like how Floyd distanced himself from Castillo and their first fight by being more dominant in the immediate rematch..

Dude came back with some sense

 

[TJervey]

Dude came back with some sense

You killing me Fam!!!!
Niggas don't have no forgiveness in their hearts!!!!
I've been reformed!!!

 

[Alaskanredman]

When they've tried open scoring, it's been a disaster. The guy ahead just sits on his lead and kills the fight.

There have been some outrageous results but they've, thankfully, rare, if high profile.

agreed. Anybody that complains about runnin now, will abandon boxing completely if they enact this shit. Plus it won't change anything, but piss you off during the fight. All they will do is make wrong decisions on a round to round basis.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I feel you...these types of decision are becoming more prevalent though. Maybe there should be some type of enforcement of Judge integrity or something...I am trying to find the story but I remember a few years back where a fighter and his camp actually murdered a judge for a fucked up score card that cost him a fight...title, etc. Turned out the fighter had some associates put a lot of money on him in the fight, and he dominated Dude, but the judging was suspect and he lost. They found the Judge a few days later with his throat cut and shit, tortured. I don't condone this but, shit like this could make an unstable person snap!!!

Maybe more high profile but not more prevalent. Felix Sturm will probably never fight in America again after they stole his middleweight title and gave it to Oscar. And I have friends that to this day say Ray Leonard was given that fight with Marvelous Marvin Hagler.
Boxing needs these types of public humiliations if something's ever going to be done about them.

I have noticed that these wacky judges a ways seem to be apart of good fights that have no hype around them.

If it isn't rigged they need to ban judges like this for life.

Yep.

Dude came back with some sense

You killing me Fam!!!!
Niggas don't have no forgiveness in their hearts!!!!
I've been reformed!!!

 

[patscorpio]

its wild..apparently fans have gotten hold of the phone number of the judge benoist who scored the williams-martinez fight that ridiculous 119-110....i understand not letting him ever judge a major fight again but its not worth harassing the guy lol.....my personal feeling after watching the shit 3 times is that fight should have been a draw.....p-will the punisher is still that dude but he was taking way too many punches for my liking and defense was non existent....he has to tighten that up especially if hes going to be fighting at 154 and 160...ill give him the benefit of the doubt considering he was training for a right handed stationary fighter and not a slick counterpunching lefty..for martinez the only thing i can really fault him on is he got winded by the middle of the fight..adrenaline and will held him up...granted very few fighters have the stamina that williams has but if there's a rematch he's going to have to correct that otherwise paul will prolly stop him...but yeah that was a great fight to end out the year

 

[Spectrum]

Dude came back with some sense

You killing me Fam!!!!
Niggas don't have no forgiveness in their hearts!!!!
I've been reformed!!!

 

[ICEBURG SLIM]

good thread