great point guards ?

[witmoe]

who would be your top 5 point guards in say the last 25 years ?
i like don't care for Isiah Thomas all that much, but his skills can't be over looked, i also like rod strickland, kevin johnson, mark price, & finally Chauncey Billups. every year during the playoffs we have a wave of the "new best point guard " tony park, billups, deron williams, chris paul, dwade, who are the hands down top five point guards ?

 

[Shotta042807]

Magic Johnson for his "showtime" plays, Gary Payton - best defender they call him The Glove, he stripped Mike, uuhhh who else. John Stockton, amazing white boy (Malone was great, so was Hornacek but I'm telling you he got the Jazz to the Finals at the end of the 90s).

***don't know if there POINT guards, but:
Nate Archibald, Walt Frazier, Elgin Baylor (MJ and Dr.J's inspiration), George Gervin the Iceman, Jason Kidd was aight ***

Me being a little dude I always tried to emulate point guards like Magic, Stockton, Payton, hard on defense and throw those no-look passes. If you don't dominate pointswise or can't do that fancy shit you do that dirty work/role player shit rack up assists and steals...

Chris Paul is the best pg in the game right now. All Star game he blew me away with that Challenge, he made Dwayne Wade look like straight shit. Fuck that, a PG is supposed to run the floor, most important postion on a team IMHO, he leads the defense and offense.

 

[cranrab]

who would be your top 5 point guards in say the last 25 years ?

not really in any preferred order:

isiah thomas
john stockton
kevin johnson
maurice cheeks
steve nash

not true PGs who have played the position:

earvin johnson
allen iverson

PGs who i would've like to have included but there wasn't any room:

joe dumars
sidney moncrief

somewhere in the 5-10:

gary payton
jason kidd

 

[rNubb]

not really in any preferred order:

isiah thomas
john stockton
kevin johnson
maurice cheeks
steve nash

not true PGs who have played the position:

earvin johnson
allen iverson

PGs who i would've like to have included but there wasn't any room:

joe dumars
sidney moncrief

somewhere in the 5-10:

gary payton
jason kidd

Magic was a point guard - all day, everyday.

Magic was not a shooter or a post man. He was the point guard. He brought the ball up the court. Even when Norm Nixon was on the team and on the floor, Magic was the point. Look at his assist stats and tell me he wasn't a point guard. Magic handles and court vision was second to none. the point position should be renamed Magic.

the point is the playmaker and Magic was certainly the playmaker in the 80s.

 

[JIMMY SWAGGER]

not really in any preferred order:

isiah thomas
john stockton
kevin johnson
maurice cheeks
steve nash

not true PGs who have played the position:

earvin johnson
allen iverson

PGs who i would've like to have included but there wasn't any room:

joe dumars
sidney moncrief

somewhere in the 5-10:

gary payton
jason kidd

Magic Johnson was a true point guard in every sense of the word. He was a pass first shoot second guard. Look at those Lakers teams: you have to be a true point guard in order to keep everyone happy. Worthy, Kareem, Cooper, Wilkes, McAdoo, Scott, Thompson, Rambis-the list goes on. By the way Sidney Montcrief was not a true point guard. He had Paul Pressey, John Lucas and Craig Hodges bringing up the ball on most occasions.

1. Magic Johnson
2. John Stockton
3. Isiah Thomas
4. Gary Payton
5. Tiny Archibald (retired in 84)or Dennis Johnson Both retired within the 25 year cut off. Both of their best years were probably in the late 70s, early 80s but DJ was a killer with the ball into the late 80s.

Chris Paul may top all of them.

 

[Spectrum]

who would be your top 5 point guards in say the last 25 years ?
i like don't care for Isiah Thomas all that much, but his skills can't be over looked, i also like rod strickland, kevin johnson, mark price, & finally Chauncey Billups. every year during the playoffs we have a wave of the "new best point guard " tony park, billups, deron williams, chris paul, dwade, who are the hands down top five point guards ?

damn...how do you start off a best point guard thread with "i dont like zeke"... after Magic, Zeke is the clear # 2.

 

[cranrab]

Magic was a point guard - all day, everyday.

Magic was not a shooter or a post man. He was the point guard. He brought the ball up the court. Even when Norm Nixon was on the team and on the floor, Magic was the point. Look at his assist stats and tell me he wasn't a point guard. Magic handles and court vision was second to none. the point position should be renamed Magic.

the point is the playmaker and Magic was certainly the playmaker in the 80s.

nice sentiment, and you're welcome to your opinion, but earvin johnson doesn't fit conveniently into the PG categories that you (and others) may want to pigeon hole him into.

the simple fact of the matter is that he forced an evolution of the sport, creating a position that had never been seen before (even by oscar robertson), largely due to his size and ball handling abilities.

earvin johnson's ball handling abilities were exceptional but only with the qualification for a man of his size. for example, earvin johnson's ball handling was not close to being in the same class with isiah thomas. that's why you often saw him dribbling with his back to the defender, or getting ripped by opponents like chris mullin.

pointing out the fact that earvin johnson posted great assist numbers is not proof that he played PG. lafayette lever posted great rebounding numbers. does that prove he was a PF?

oscar robertson lead the league more than once in assists. was he a PG? no.

scottie pippen lead the chicago bulls in assists how many years? was he a PG? no.

tremendous player and definitely a playmaker, but NOT a PG. if you want to believe that he was, i won't lose any sleep over it.

 

[cranrab]

Magic Johnson was a true point guard in every sense of the word. He was a pass first shoot second guard. Look at those Lakers teams: you have to be a true point guard in order to keep everyone happy. Worthy, Kareem, Cooper, Wilkes, McAdoo, Scott, Thompson, Rambis-the list goes on. By the way Sidney Montcrief was not a true point guard. He had Paul Pressey, John Lucas and Craig Hodges bringing up the ball on most occasions.

you mean the same sidney moncrief that jerry west wanted to draft INSTEAD OF earvin johnson? you're suggesting THAT sidney moncrief wasn't a PG?

JS,

no diss, but you may not be old enough to be participating in this discussion. the OP wrote past 25 years, and from that criteria you are WAY WAY WAY off base with your john lucas and craig hodges comments.

also, paul pressey wasn't yet a full time starter when sidney moncrief started enjoying his most productive seasons.

 

[Rollie_Fingaz]

Magic Johnson
Mark Jackson
Isiah Thomas
Kevin Johnson
Tiny Archibald

I'm sorry..I just can't find it in my heart to put John Stockton in that list..

 

[RunawaySlave]

Damn, you done stumbled into my world now, lol

Of course there are the obvious choices of Magic & Isiah (Isiah did not like being referred to as a "true" PG...he said so in at least one article I read back then), followed by one of my personal favorites, Kevin Johnson.

Cran bought up another one I liked in Lafayette "Fat" Lever (haven't heard that name in some years). Never really considered Moncrief a PG though physically, he fit the bill. But he did play for dim-witted Don (the creator of the "Point-Foward"), so he probably was one even though he played more at the 2 and the 3 (and sometimes even the 4) positions.

Never liked Mark Price or Stockton. Used to take great pleasure in watching Isiah dismantle Price and KJ wax Stockton's arse on a consistent basis over the years. And it used to happen ALOT.

Have always had a soft spot for the dish first, shoot later type of PG. But there really haven't been that many who've made it to the NBA since the mid 80's. The game changed in that period. Instead of trying to get the best ball handlers they could find, they've basically taken the best SGs coming out of college and forced them to play the point. One of the first instances of this that I can remember was with Doc Rivers when Fratello made him play the 1 with the Hawks. I can remember how out of place Doc looked trying to set up others instead of doing what he did best. People like to blame Dominique Wilkens for the Hawks never winning, but I always thought it was because of Fratello's stubborness. He could played KENNY SMITH at the point, with Doc at the 2 and Nique at the 3. Kenny was'nt the best at the setup, but he was damn sure more of a "pure" PG than Doc Rivers

Anyway, since then, it's been one shooting guard after the next playing the point. One of the few times I can remember when a pass-first type of guard got a real opportunity to play was when Stockton came out. Also Bobby Hurley. In fact, it's only the white guy players. As Steve Nash is one of the few around today.

In college, BREVIN KNIGHT was actually the lead guard at Stanford when Nash was there, but look at who got drafted higher, got more chances to start and better contracts. Knight was the pass first type of guard that used to prevail back in the early 80's, but gets looked over by NBA scouts these days. There are probably dozens of brothas who could do what Nash does, but will never see the light of day on an NBA roster for more than a 10 day contract




Also, I notice no one mentioned chuckin-assed Tim Hardaway.


A few more of my personal favs:

Mookie Blaylock
Enis Whatley (who never got a chance)
Phil Ford

 

[tp2001]

I can't believe someone pulled a Paul Pressey in this piece...

My top 5 PGs in the past 25 years include:

"Zeke"
Magic
AI
Kidd
Payton

 

[Rollie_Fingaz]

Never liked Mark Price or Stockton. Used to take great pleasure in watching Isiah dismantle Price and KJ wax Stockton's arse on a consistent basis over the years. And it used to happen ALOT.

My favorite Stockton moment was when Iverson was coming up the court late in the 4th quarter and crossed Stocktons bum-ass over and made him fall. After scoring, he then proceeded to run up the court yelling, "Can't no white man stop me!!!"

Karl Malone was pissed beyond all pisstivity at the press conference when questioned about that..

 

[RunawaySlave]

My favorite Stockton moment was when Iverson was coming up the court late in the 4th quarter and crossed Stocktons bum-ass over and made him fall. After scoring, he then proceeded to run up the court yelling, "Can't no white man stop me!!!"

Karl Malone was pissed beyond all pisstivity at the press conference when questioned about that..

Can't stand AI, but I would've been crying had I seen that

 

[cranrab]

A few more of my personal favs:

Mookie Blaylock
Enis Whatley (who never got a chance)
Phil Ford

these are the types of threads i wish we could enjoy more here at BGOL. sadly people aren't equipped for these unless you limit the conversation to say, the last 5 years instead of the last 25 years.

mookie blaylock was a great player.

i actually had the great pleasure to play with and against ennis whatley.

phil ford - another sidney moncrief teammate.

 

[cranrab]

I can't believe someone pulled a Paul Pressey in this piece.

paul pressey was a fantastic player, but not a PG. the milwaukee bucks were a terror at 1 through 3, but always had weak spot at the 5. remember when they lined up paul pressey and ricky pierce? that was murder.

 

[cranrab]

Never liked Mark Price or Stockton.

i never was impressed with mark price. and i am not particularly a fan of john stockton's style. but i DO appreciate what john stockton accomplished.

i'm not just talking about the assist milestones (though that IS impressive given the makeup of the squads he played on), or the steals. i'm talking about the great FG%, FT%, and durability (a dozen or more complete seasons) and NEVER missed a post-season his WHOLE career.

 

[Spectrum]

i never was impressed with mark price. and i am not particularly a fan of john stockton's style. but i DO appreciate what john stockton accomplished.

i'm not just talking about the assist milestones (though that IS impressive given the makeup of the squads he played on), or the steals. i'm talking about the great FG%, FT%, and durability (a dozen or more complete seasons) and NEVER missed a post-season his WHOLE career.

Agreed 100 percent with this. I'll never forget about him getting the nod for the dream team over Zeke (zeke used to murder Stockton in head to head matchups after that too ). However, I have the utmost respect for his body of work and he is an all-time great point..but still a level below the top tier as he couldn't single-handedly impose his will on a team or series and be the real difference...but Stockton was a great pg

 

[RunawaySlave]

i never was impressed with mark price. and i am not particularly a fan of john stockton's style. but i DO appreciate what john stockton accomplished.

i'm not just talking about the assist milestones (though that IS impressive given the makeup of the squads he played on), or the steals. i'm talking about the great FG%, FT%, and durability (a dozen or more complete seasons) and NEVER missed a post-season his WHOLE career.

Oh, all right! I'll give him that. The FG% was a great thing. Even if he did barely average 10 shots a game for most of his career and he got a significant amount of his points where all the affirmative action NBA recipients get them at.....

the FT line


He never missed the post season game in like 15 seasons?? Pretty impressive. And he also NEVER won a title. Sort of like Reggie Miller. But I'll give the dirty little dive taking mofo a break



Yeah...I hate him

 

[JIMMY SWAGGER]

you mean the same sidney moncrief that jerry west wanted to draft INSTEAD OF earvin johnson? you're suggesting THAT sidney moncrief wasn't a PG?

JS,

no diss, but you may not be old enough to be participating in this discussion. the OP wrote past 25 years, and from that criteria you are WAY WAY WAY off base with your john lucas and craig hodges comments.

also, paul pressey wasn't yet a full time starter when sidney moncrief started enjoying his most productive seasons.

Dude I am probably older than you. You can not tell me who played has most of the PG duties because of the battles that Celtics had with them, year in and year out back in the 1980s eastern conference semi-finals and finals. I'm not only old enough but I can prove to you that Craig Hodges, John Lucus and Paul Pressey all played the point within the last 25 years. Montcrief was known as the Bucks leader and known for his versatility but he was more effective at the 2 than the 1. Thus not making him a true point guard.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIL/1987.html-P Pressey and John Lucas

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIL/1986.html- P Pressey

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIL/1985.html-P. Pressey

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIL/1985.html-the only year Sidney Montcrief led the Bucks in assists

 

[witmoe]

yo here is a better break down of this topic the nba listed most of the guards we spoke of didn't think i would spark such a touchy topic, lol but hey i love this game next time we shall talk about why nique gets so much street love and the league don't give him much props but as a dunker ?
anyhow check the point guard numbers here !
http://www.nba.com/playoffs2008/header_config_hp/cp3_vs_nbagreats.html


http://www.nba.com/playoffs2008/header_config_hp/cp3_vs_nbagreats.html

 

[Shotta042807]

these cats are coming off the bench point guards for you top 5
How could I forget Mookie Blaylock? Steals and Assists league leader I believe.

Also 5'3 Muggsy Bogues was dope. For the Charlotte Hornets, he was running the floor with a young Alonzo Mourning & young Larry Johnson.

Anybody remember Mighty Mouse, Damon Stoudamire?

Kendall Gill of the New Jersey Nets was a dope young player too. I'm partial for people out of North Carolina!!! lol he went to my Elementary School, we didn't have no starss....

 

[trick20]

Chris Paul
Magic
Baron Davis
Steve Nash
Gary Payton

 

[cranrab]

I can prove to you that Craig Hodges, John Lucus and Paul Pressey all played the point within the last 25 years.

i'll be sure to tell coach pressey this when i see him. we'll have a good laugh over this.

Moncrief was known as the Bucks leader and known for his versatility but he was more effective at the 2 than the 1. Thus not making him a true point guard.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIL/1987.html-P Pressey and John Lucas

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIL/1986.html- P Pressey

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIL/1985.html-P. Pressey

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIL/1985.html-the only year Sidney Montcrief led the Bucks in assists

you linked information from 1985, 1986 and 1987. as i pointed out earlier, sidney moncrief began his career in 1980. care to share why you omitted 5 years (almost HALF!) of his career? that shit isn't necessary on the SPORTS board, leave that for the uninformed sports discussions on BGOL.

didn't the addition of sidney moncrief eventually lead to the trade of quinn buckner? what position did quinn buckner play again?

when the bucks played the 76ers in the 1982 playoffs, wasn't the bucks starting backcourt sidney moncrief and brian winters? which one played PG again?

 

[cranrab]

as a dunker ?
anyhow check the point guard numbers here !
http://www.nba.com/playoffs2008/header_config_hp/cp3_vs_nbagreats.html

unusable garbage.

chris paul is doing great things, no doubt. but with the current NBA rules and officiating purposely designed to reward scoring (not opinion, but confirmed FACT), it's only a matter of time until the league MANUFACTURES players who will rewrite NBA history.

dwyane wade's history-making NBA finals performance was spectacular, but the first of the major signs that change was on the horizon.

chris paul is posting great numbers in an entire era that should have an asterisk next to it.

just one example: in the past, a PG who stopped short was usually whistled for an offensive foul. but chris paul is allowed to use this tactic ALL THE TIME without penalty. when he finds himself ahead of his opponent, he will stop short and make the defender run up his back, either drawing a PF or allowing him to corral/control the defender. this is a great advantage to the offensive player (in this case, chris paul). i'm sure you'll be able to see him do this to tony parker again.

 

[cranrab]

Kendall Gill of the New Jersey Nets was a dope young player too. he went to my Elementary School, we didn't have no stars

KG definitely wasn't a PG.

but he did share the backcourt with A LOT of them. muggsy bogues, gary payton, rod strickland, sam cassell, etc.

KG still has a place (actually a compound similar to michael jordan's) near chicago, so he still has roots in illinois.

 

[Brother Blues]

Magic would be my top one of all time....

Nate Archibald would be second...if you lead the league in assists and scoring in the same year,that makes you special.

The rest you can fight over...

 

[cranrab]

He never missed the post season game in like 15 seasons?? Pretty impressive.

NINETEEN seasons. 19 consecutive playoff seasons.

And he also NEVER won a title. Sort of like Reggie Miller.

sort of, yeah. but reggie miller doesn't even come close IMO.

reggie miller wasn't as durable, and didn't qualify for the playoffs every year.

as far as neither winning a championship, i give them both a pass. they both ran into the most dominant post players of their times in the NBA finals: michael jordan for john stockton, and shaquille o'neal for reggie miller.

like coach bird said about shaquille o'neal after the 2000 NBA finals, "We didn't have an answer for him. We couldn't stop him."

 

[cranrab]

Nate Archibald would be second...if you lead the league in assists and scoring in the same year,that makes you special.

nate archibald is an excellent choice.

and if not for kareem abdul jabbar, nate archibald would've duplicated his assist/scoring feat more than once.

 

[Rollie_Fingaz]

Agreed 100 percent with this. I'll never forget about him getting the nod for the dream team over Zeke (zeke used to murder Stockton in head to head matchups after that too ). However, I have the utmost respect for his body of work and he is an all-time great point..but still a level below the top tier as he couldn't single-handedly impose his will on a team or series and be the real difference...but Stockton was a great pg

Stockton was exposed when Mark Jackson came into Utah and eventually took his playing time. The system and having the Karl Malone on your team helps a lot. I doubt that Stockton could duplicate that on another team. Not to mention he was a dirty motherfucker.

 

[bgque12]

I see kevin Johnson's name but I don't see Mark Price. Remember, KJ couldn't get off the bench in Cleveland because of Mark Price.

 

[JIMMY SWAGGER]

i'll be sure to tell coach pressey this when i see him. we'll have a good laugh over this.



you linked information from 1985, 1986 and 1987. as i pointed out earlier, sidney moncrief began his career in 1980. care to share why you omitted 5 years (almost HALF!) of his career? that shit isn't necessary on the SPORTS board, leave that for the uninformed sports discussions on BGOL.

didn't the addition of sidney moncrief eventually lead to the trade of quinn buckner? what position did quinn buckner play again?

when the bucks played the 76ers in the 1982 playoffs, wasn't the bucks starting backcourt sidney moncrief and brian winters? which one played PG again?

As I said before, I am just bringing out Moncrief best years of his career which were within the last 25 years. Then your argument goes out the door when you talk about Tiny Archibald. His best years were in Kansas City and his 1981, 1982 years with the Cs. Those years do not fit within the 25 years criteria. Moncrief started his career in 1979 but his best years at point were from 1981 to 1984. Again you are mentioning years outside the 25 year threshold. The thread is not the best pont guard in the last 30 years, it is the last 25. You brought up Brian Winter thats funny. I player ball against his son in a summer camp years later. Watch any Bucks game from 1984, on and Nelson has playing off the ball in order to score more and play defense on the other teams best player. I mentioned Tiny and DJ as basically the same player because both of these PGs best years were behind them when they reached the CS but they still had plenty to give and still were killin cats with the rock and partly through allegiance to my squad.

 

[RunawaySlave]

I see kevin Johnson's name but I don't see Mark Price. Remember, KJ couldn't get off the bench in Cleveland because of Mark Price.

Yeah, and they also couldn't make it past Detroit to the finals despite having one of the best centers in the league (Daughtery), and the 2nd best SG in the east (Ron Harper). Mainly because Isiah used to abuse the same Mark Price. Think CLE would've done a little better back then if it was KJ going against Isiah??

 

[Spectrum]

Mainly because Isiah used to abuse the same Mark Price.

i used to love it... Zeke was just too much for players like Price

 

[tp2001]

paul pressey was a fantastic player, but not a PG. the milwaukee bucks were a terror at 1 through 3, but always had weak spot at the 5. remember when they lined up paul pressey and ricky pierce? that was murder.

Man that was when I was a young cat collectin b-ball cards...I had both of them in my collection (especially Topps' Ricky Pierce cards)...

DAMMIT what happened to all of them b-ball cards

 

[Spectrum]

Man that was when I was a young cat collectin b-ball cards...I had both of them in my collection (especially Topps' Ricky Pierce cards)...

DAMMIT what happened to all of them b-ball cards

man..I remember plenty of nights going to sleep mad after Ricky Pierce lit my pistons up..only other player that gave me more nightmares was Bernard King