Gametheory/Nzingha

[GAMETHEORY]

I'm looking at a map of the last election and its ironic he won all the states that he has no control over (Katanga, Kivus)

well...there wasn't anyone credible to outmaneuver him. Its always an insult for an incumbent African president to lose election. He probably learned from the professor of Kenyan Politics, Baba Moi. The way it works in Africa, if you're an incumbent you always have entire SYSTEM at your disposal working on your behalf even though he didnt have any opponent to speak of SO in essence it was fear and of course the elections were much more closely contested and his main challenger, Etienne Tshisekedi, has never accepted his defeat.

Coming back to your question. He campaigned on the pretext that there cant be democracy in Congo without peace...which in turn dependent upon the departure of the aggressors and I'm sure you know who exactly he meant by that...and speaking of Katanga, Problem with with Kabila is everywhere in Congo, his regime is considered as Katangan, except in Katanga. For North Katanga where the Kabilas are originally from, he is the lost son who has forgotten to take care of his family and for South Katanga, he is the incarnation of problems at the national level; extracting the wealth of the province without any added value in return. Who knows he has survival instincts and learned from the mistakes his late Dad made

 

[GAMETHEORY]

5000 is an understatement for the Gukurahundu which occurred in matabeleland, numbers are more in their >20k.

I miss my home. matabeleland.

I guess with the Zim politics all I know is you can never underestimate Bob. One minute he was grooming "her highness" Joyce Mujuru next minute we all know what became of her....and who did Bob replace her with? well the one and only Mnangagwa, the man responsible for suppression of the insurgency at the time when he was the minister of State Security responsible for the intelligence services. Sometimes I think when Moi left his presidency in Kenya he gave all his blue prints to Bob in Zim.

In swahili we always say. Pole sana. Kua uyaone!

 

[RoadRage]

One of the more interesting threads here on BGOL, keep it up guys…

 

[Nzinga]

I guess with the Zim politics all I know is you can never underestimate Bob. One minute he was grooming "her highness" Joyce Mujuru next minute we all know what became of her....and who did Bob replace her with? well the one and only Mnangagwa, the man responsible for suppression of the insurgency at the time when he was the minister of State Security responsible for the intelligence services. Sometimes I think when Moi left his presidency in Kenya he gave all his blue prints to Bob in Zim.

In swahili we always say. Pole sana. Kua uyaone!

He replaced her with Emmerson Mnangagwa, a long time time party
member, who claims to have a law degree from the University of
Zambia. Apparently, Grace Mugabe, is now preparing her own claim
to the thrown, and her surrogates felt that the tactless Joyce Mujuru
had become a threat. So they had her removed and replaced. But the
replacement was not as weak and unknown as they had hoped, and so
the character assassination of Mnangagwa is now under way as well.
The plan is clear the path for a Grace Mugabe acquisition of the
presidency, when Bob passes away in the near future.

 

[Nzinga]

hehehe

His Dad, Joseph was living in Tanzania for almost 30 Years and I even know the building in Dar he used to live. If you've been to Dar there's an area called Upanga and to be specific they used to live in this flat not far from Muhimbili Hospital. Basically Tanzania back them was the Mecca for all the liberation movement folks so Tanzania's intelligence service (during Nyerere's era) provided safe heaven to all those fighting for the liberation of African countries by that I mean almost entire echelon of ANC including Mandela were hosted and trained (Umkontho we sizwe were given training cams in Morogoro) while others lived in Dar. Museveni of Uganda, John Garang, etc.

Coming back to Kabila we used to think he was the intelligence guy and he was popularliy known as baba desi....he was Mswahili through and through

Mind you Nyerere hated Mobutu to the core so it was inevitable he gives the Kabila and his crew all support they wanted. Now the current Kabila was born and raised in Dar and he went to secondary school not far from their flat in Upanga called AZANIA SECONDARY SCHOOL its a govt school.Basically he was born and raised up in Tanzania therefore its no surprise that he doesnt even speak proper lingala.

In otherwords waswahili tunasema huyo kabila ni mwanetu kabisaaaa tumemlea wenyeweeee heheheheh

The original rear base of the liberation movements was Tanzania. However
Zambia became the natural choice because of its situation. It is the only country
in Africa that has a (sizable) border with 4 of the 5 countries where violent struggle
enabled independence. It borders Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Namibia and Angola,
where as Tanzania borders only Mozambique. So the ANC became based in Zambia
for the last 20 years of its exile; the fact that Tanzania had kicked it out in 1969
did not help matters, although Kaunda eventually prevailed upon his best friend,
Julius Nyerere, to reverse that decision, especially after it became clear that the
alleged plot to assassinate Nyerere, by the ANC in 1967, had no merit, and
been concocted by the rival PAC in order to discredit the ANC.

Mugabe came out exile and went to Zambia, where both his Zanu and Zapu were
based, but had to leave for Mozambique after falling out with Kaunda. Whats more
the situation of Mozambique, is more conducive to the prosecution of the Zimbabwe
guerilla war because the border between that country and Zimbabwe is not
demarcated in its entirety, by a lake and a river, as is the case with the borser
between Zambia and Zimbabwe.

Swapo of Namibia also had a huge presence in Zambia. Again Kaunda had a hand
in the liberation war in Angola, although the situation was a little complicated in
that regard. Never the less, Zambia was in the 1980s not only the host to guerilla
training camps, but hundreds of thousands of refugees from all the liberation
wars, many of whom were either integrated into the population or still in refugee
status...

 

[Nzinga]

Joseph Kabila's term of office ends this year, and according to
the constitution, he is barred by term limits to run again. However
the little bitch is trying to amend the constitution so that he can
run again.

 

[GAMETHEORY]

The original rear base of the liberation movements was Tanzania. However, when
Zambia became the natural choice because of its situation. It is the only country
in Africa that has a (sizable) border with 4 of the 5 countries where violent struggle
enabled independence. It borders Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Namibia and Angola,
where as Tanzania borders only Mozambique. So the ANC became based in Zambia
for the last 20 years of its exile; the fact that Tanzania had kicked it out in 1969
did not help matters, although Kaunda eventually prevailed upon his best friend,
Julius Nyerere, to reverse that decision, especially after it became clear that the
alleged assassination plot of Nyerere, by the ANC in 1967, had no merit, and
been concocted by the rival PAC in order to discredit the ANC.

Mugabe came out exile and went to Zambia, where both his Zanu and Zapu were
based, but had to leave for Mozambique after falling out with Kaunda. Whats more
the situation of Mozambique, is more conducive to the prosecution of the
guerilla war because the border between that country and Zimbabwe is not
demarcated in its entirety, by a lake and a river, as is the case with Zambia and
Zimbabwe.

Swapo of Namibia also had a huge presence in Zambia. Again Kaunda had a hand
in the liberation war in Angola, although the situation was a little complicated in
that regard. Never the less, Zambia was in the 1980s not only the host to guerilla
training camps, but hundreds of thousands of refugees from all the liberation
wars, many of whom are either integrated into the population or still in refugee
status...

This is when Tanzania's President decided to spill the beans:




and this is what Kaunda's response (starts from 2:15 min mark):




And this is BOB going in on KK,Mwalimu, Neto, Machel etc

 

[GAMETHEORY]

He replaced her with Emmerson Mnangagwa, a long time time party
member, who claims to have a law degree from the University of
Zambia. Apparently, Grace Mugabe, is now preparing her own claim
to the thrown, and her surrogates felt that the tactless Joyce Mujuru
had become a threat. So they had her removed and replaced. But the
replacement was not as weak and unknown as they had hoped, and so
the character assassination of Mnangagwa is now under way as well.
The plan is clear the path for a Grace Mugabe acquisition of the
presidency, when Bob passes away in the near future.

aPParently Mnagangwa is reputed to have a well-rounded and a cosmopolitan view of world politics (he wants to have good relations with the EU/US) while at the same time deepen ties with China and Russia and that a delicate balancing act that will stretch the diplomatic and strategic skills of his administration. In addition lets not forget this dude is a trained Spy thats why he commands respect within the Zim Intelligence and other security apparatus. He kinda reminds me of Meles Zenawi or Kagame and these types of leaders always have this outlook of pragmatism that wouldnt compromise the state. Basically friendly foreign policy with the West will only be considered prudent as long as it does not threaten the status quo (Putin comes to mind) In other words, he is only likely to play by the rules of the established Western hegemony as long as the ruling party’s dominance of Zimbabwe’s political landscape is not threatened.

As far as Grace Mugabe is concerned,Mnangagwa has been playing Chess while everyone else is playing checkers. Lets not for forget Mnangagwa is a Spy Master so he elevated Mugabe’s wife to head Zanu-PF’s Women’s League by asking his long-time friend, Oppah Muchinguri, to step down as leader, and give way to the First Lady. If Zimbabwe was a Mornachy we now know how well this would have gone down in the royal courts. And guess what? to date, the Grace has showed her allegiance not only by teaming up with Mnangagwa’s allies. Sometimes Zim politics resemble a Shakespearean play

 

[Nzinga]

aPParently Mnagangwa is reputed to have a well-rounded and a cosmopolitan view of world politics (he wants to have good relations with the EU/US) while at the same time deepen ties with China and Russia and that a delicate balancing act that will stretch the diplomatic and strategic skills of his administration. In addition lets not forget this dude is a trained Spy thats why he commands respect within the Zim Intelligence and other security apparatus. He kinda reminds me of Meles Zenawi or Kagame and these types of leaders always have this outlook of pragmatism that wouldnt compromise the state. Basically friendly foreign policy with the West will only be considered prudent as long as it does not threaten the status quo (Putin comes to mind) In other words, he is only likely to play by the rules of the established Western hegemony as long as the ruling party’s dominance of Zimbabwe’s political landscape is not threatened.

As far as Grace Mugabe is concerned,Mnangagwa has been playing Chess while everyone else is playing checkers. Lets not for forget Mnangagwa is a Spy Master so he elevated Mugabe’s wife to head Zanu-PF’s Women’s League by asking his long-time friend, Oppah Muchinguri, to step down as leader, and give way to the First Lady. If Zimbabwe was a Mornachy we now know how well this would have gone down in the royal courts. And guess what? to date, the Grace has showed her allegiance not only by teaming up with Mnangagwa’s allies. Sometimes Zim politics resemble a Shakespearean play

The problem I have with Kagame is that he will not accept democracy

 

[Nzinga]

aPParently Mnagangwa is reputed to have a well-rounded and a cosmopolitan view of world politics (he wants to have good relations with the EU/US) while at the same time deepen ties with China and Russia and that a delicate balancing act that will stretch the diplomatic and strategic skills of his administration. In addition lets not forget this dude is a trained Spy thats why he commands respect within the Zim Intelligence and other security apparatus. He kinda reminds me of Meles Zenawi or Kagame and these types of leaders always have this outlook of pragmatism that wouldnt compromise the state. Basically friendly foreign policy with the West will only be considered prudent as long as it does not threaten the status quo (Putin comes to mind) In other words, he is only likely to play by the rules of the established Western hegemony as long as the ruling party’s dominance of Zimbabwe’s political landscape is not threatened.

As far as Grace Mugabe is concerned,Mnangagwa has been playing Chess while everyone else is playing checkers. Lets not for forget Mnangagwa is a Spy Master so he elevated Mugabe’s wife to head Zanu-PF’s Women’s League by asking his long-time friend, Oppah Muchinguri, to step down as leader, and give way to the First Lady. If Zimbabwe was a Mornachy we now know how well this would have gone down in the royal courts. And guess what? to date, the Grace has showed her allegiance not only by teaming up with Mnangagwa’s allies. Sometimes Zim politics resemble a Shakespearean play

The problem is that Grace Mugabe was a secretary of Robert Mugabe, whose husband
Mugabe sent off on a diplomatic assignment while he took over the wife....There is
nothing that qualifies her as president, and all she wants the continuation of a life of
priviledge....

 

[GAMETHEORY]

Joseph Kabila's term of office ends this year, and according to
the constitution, he is barred by term limits to run again. However
the little bitch is trying to amend the constitution so that he can
run again.

Kabila might accept an exit strategy but he will need guarantees:

(1) the personal safety of himself and his family;
(2) no persecution by Congolese or international justice;
(3) no loss of his wealth and property. He would also, undoubtedly, like most African leaders to keep some influence in the background, maintain his family members (Jaynette and Zoe) on the political map and he might be interested in an international role.
He would, however, prefer to continue to live in Congo.

Or He might appoint a crown prince within his political family. This would probably be found more acceptable both by the international community and the political elite within the majority.

Mind you every country surrounding Congo also has their own interest in this matter.


I will be damned if Congo elects that JEW from Katanga as their new president

 

[GAMETHEORY]

The problem I have with Kagame is that he will not accept democracy

ohhhh ok

 

[GAMETHEORY]

The problem is that Grace Mugabe was a secretary of Robert Mugabe, whose husband
Mugabe sent off on a diplomatic assignment while he took over the wife....There is
nothing that qualifies her as president, and all she wants the continuation of a life of
priviledge....

Doesnt matter how she got there. The most important thing she's in the Royal Courts and happens to be one of the most powerful individuals in the Zim Politics. In addition, I'm inclined to believe Mnangagwa, by contrast, who has a classical understanding of power, believes that patience and loyalty are the most judicious approach to politics. Unlike his rivals.

Zim politics are like GAME OF THRONES perhaps the best question should be who is Khaleesi? We need her for so many reasons

 

[Decon Frost]

Both Katanaga and Orientale's governors are non-black.

 

[GAMETHEORY]

Both Katanaga and Orientale's governors are non-black.

tell me abt it

 

[Nzinga]

Doesnt matter how she got there. The most important thing she's in the Royal Courts and happens to be one of the most powerful individuals in the Zim Politics. In addition, I'm inclined to believe Mnangagwa, by contrast, who has a classical understanding of power, believes that patience and loyalty are the most judicious approach to politics. Unlike his rivals.

Zim politics are like GAME OF THRONES perhaps the best question should be who is Khaleesi? We need her for so many reasons

Who should be Khaleesi...interesting perspective...Right now I see no one..
But what role would Khaleesi be playing?

 

[Nzinga]

Kabila might accept an exit strategy but he will need guarantees:

(1) the personal safety of himself and his family;
(2) no persecution by Congolese or international justice;
(3) no loss of his wealth and property. He would also, undoubtedly, like most African leaders to keep some influence in the background, maintain his family members (Jaynette and Zoe) on the political map and he might be interested in an international role.
He would, however, prefer to continue to live in Congo.

Or He might appoint a crown prince within his political family. This would probably be found more acceptable both by the international community and the political elite within the majority.

Mind you every country surrounding Congo also has their own interest in this matter.


I will be damned if Congo elects that JEW from Katanga as their new president

One of the deepest divisions in Congo is between the East and the West. And
so if that crooked bugger, Moises Katumbi, were 100% black, he would still
encounter resistance from the Westerners. Many Easterners believe that
a lot of the animosity Kabila faces from Westerners has less to do with his
alleged Tutsi heritage, and has more to do with the fact that he comes from
the East. The problem is that Katumbi can claim that he has breathed life
back in the economy of Katanga. The Congolese Copper industry produced
more copper than Zambia in 2013, for the first time since 1988. The other
provinces can look at Katanga as the one province that is dynamic, even if
there is always a suspicion that Katangese still harbour secessionist tendencies

 

[GAMETHEORY]

One of the deepest divisions in Congo is between the East and the West. And
so if that crooked bugger, Moises Katumbi, were 100% black, he would still
encounter resistance from the Westerners. Many Easterners believe that
a lot of the animosity Kabila faces from Westerners has less to do with his
alleged Tutsi heritage, and has more to do with the fact that he comes from
the East. The problem is that Katumbi can claim that he has breathed life
back in the economy of Katanga. The Congolese Copper industry produced
more copper than Zambia in 2013, for the first time since 1988. The other
provinces can look at Katanga as the one province that is dynamic, even if
there is always a suspicion that Katangese still harbour secessionist tendencies

Or another option is Kabila could be interested in a Putin/ Medvedev scenario where a confidant would become Head of State and Kabila Prime Minister for one term, after which he could become President again.

This could be an interesting idea but there are three technical inconveniences to it:

(a) Congo is not Russia,
(b) Kabila is not Putin and
(c) I don’t see an obvious Congolese politician who would take the chair, keep it warm for five years and give it back without complaining.

This has failed in our own Tanzania where we have Kikwete staying on instead of the deal he had with his previous premier, his mate Mr Lowassa.

Gotta love African Politics

 

[GAMETHEORY]

icard: SMDH........read this excerpt from a full length Bloomberg feature.

Gertler Earns Billions as Mine Deals Fail to Enrich Congo

Dan Gertler’s bearded face lights up as he looks out the helicopter window. Below, an installation twice the size of Monaco rises from a clearing in the central African forest, where it transforms ore mined from the ochre earth into sheets of copper.

“Look at it, look at it,” the Israeli billionaire, 38, shouts through the headset above the thrum of rotors. “This is what life is all about,” Gertler says as the chopper lands in the scorching, dry afternoon heat of the Democratic Republic of Congo.

“Everyone comes with dreams and illusions and promises. Everyone wants quick deals. They don’t want to invest. We are real.”

Wearing a black suit by French fashion house Zilli, ritual white tassels hanging off both hips and a black-velvet yarmulke, Gertler hops out into the dust of Mutanda, a mine controlled by his partner, Glencore International Plc (GLEN), that holds cobalt and some of the highest-grade copper in the world, Bloomberg Markets magazine reports in its January issue.


Gertler has stakes in companies that control 9.6 percent of world cobalt production, based on U.S. Geological Survey data and company figures.

Diamonds and Gold

That’s just the beginning of Gertler’s influence in Congo, the largest country of sub-Saharan Africa, with the world’s richest deposits of cobalt and major reserves of copper, diamonds, gold, tin and coltan, an ore containing the metal tantalum, which is used in consumer electronics. His Gibraltar- registered Fleurette Properties Ltd. owns stakes in various Congolese mines through at least 60 holding companies in offshore tax havens such as the British Virgin Islands.

Gertler, whose grandfather co-founded Israel’s diamond exchange in 1947, arrived in Congo in 1997 seeking rough diamonds. The 23-year-old trader struck a deep friendship with Joseph Kabila, who then headed the Congolese army and today is the nation’s president. Since those early days, Gertler has invested in iron ore, gold, cobalt and copper as well as agriculture, oil and banking. In the process, he’s built up a net worth of at least $2.5 billion, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index.

Roster of Critics

He’s also acquired a roster of critics. Many of the government’s deals with Gertler deprive Congo’s 68 million people of badly needed funds, according to the London-based anticorruption group Global Witness and lawmakers from Congo and the U.K., the country’s second-biggest aid donor after the U.S.

“Dan Gertler is essentially looting Congo at the expense of its people,” says Jean Pierre Muteba, the head of a group of nongovernmental organizations that monitor the mining sector in Katanga province, where most of Congo’s copper is located.

“He has political connections, so state companies sell him mines for low prices and he sells them on for huge profits. That’s how he’s become a billionaire.”

In the eight months preceding November 2011 elections, in which Kabila won a second five-year term, companies affiliated with Gertler bought shares in five mining ventures from three state-owned firms, according to minutes of board meetings, company filings and documents published later. The state companies didn’t announce the sales.

 

[GAMETHEORY]

Both Katanaga and Orientale's governors are non-black.

Katnga Gov's mom is JEWISH

 

[GAMETHEORY]

Potentially Africa's first JEWISH PRESIDENT

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moïse_Katumbi

 

[kefta]

So are you sayin you base every move Africans are supposed to make based on what white people will approve?

They asked what Africans would do, not what white people will do.m


The two examples I mentioned didn't come about from anyone waiting on European permisision.

All that I am saying is that everything is dominated by the racist/white supremacists. That's all. All the borders and all the lines that they have drawn up on the so called Atlas!

 

[Joe Money]

Dope breakdown Zinger. I got some research to do. Much Appreciated.

Gotta give you credit, you're a true pan African

what we need in Africa is not sovereignty of 200 different countries,
that would result were all grievances in all 54 countries allowed to
come to a vote. What we need is federalism based on strong autonomous
territories. That way we could benefit from unity, maintain our different
identities, and push our interests accordingly...

nice article and graph that reinforces Nzingas points


http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2012/sep/06/africa-map-separatist-movements-interactive

 

[GAMETHEORY]

........,

 

[Nzinga]

Kabila and his cronies struck 2 weeks ago. The bugger has refused
to leave power, appointed a crony as head of a "caretaker" govt, while
he remains in power for another 2 years. Believe it or not, they will
soon announce that there is no reason to incur the expensive cost
of another national election, and Kabila can remain in power since
he is a "good leader"...

 

[GAMETHEORY]

will revert...