Game Of Thrones: The Sopranos with swords or Dynasty in chainmail?

[largebillsonlyplease]

Jamie was in denial himself about his kids. He knew but they had to keep it a secret he denied it so much he denied it to himself.
And then this happens



And in season 7 he says Tomnen his "baby boy" killed himself

He went from those aren't my kids
To I am your father
To damn my baby boy is dead we need to talk about it.

 

[futureshock]

I did not even realize that was her.

Wait...they had crisis actors in Westeros?

 

[ViCiouS]

Jamie is complex. great strategist now after them L's
love's his sister, can't help who he loves.
Love his brother so that reunion is going to be heartbreaking
but also pushed Bran out the window

I expect a good reunion now that Joff's true killer is known - it'll be complicated
the Tywin thing is water under the bridge
and he knows in his heart that Cersi no longer loves him
In many ways he is as different from s1 as Arya is - thats a different man now
also look forward to he and Brienne having another convo

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

If you were in the night's watch and survived. You saw Jon become an apprentice, save the lord commander, tame a dire wolf, unite wildlings, kill a white walker, get captured and yet escape those wildlings, get killed, come back from the dead...
he doesn't think he's a god but he absolutely is a god at this point.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

I expect a good reunion now that Joff's true killer is known - it'll be complicated
the Tywin thing is water under the bridge
and Jaimie knows in his heart that Cersi no longer loves him

I think Cersei loves the shit out of him cause it's all she's got left. Children first, after that Jamie
I see it playing out as both of them are there with Cersei and a decision has to be made he has to choose Cersei or Tyrion and then...

 

[ViCiouS]

I think Cersei loves the shit out of him cause it's all she's got left. Children first, after that Jamie
I see it playing out as both of them are there with Cersei and a decision has to be made he has to choose Cersei or Tyrion and then...

its going to be the Mad King choice all over again
his oath / love for Cersi vs saving many lives, and he'll choose the greater good again

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

its going to be the Mad King choice all over again
his oath / love for Cersi vs saving many lives, and he'll choose the greater good again

Maybe he will.
He's been through a whole hell of a lot though.
If there was anything I'd want to see, is just an hour long episode of the day he killed the mad king. Just put us right there in the middle of everything going on

Wow and their incestuous ways contribute to their madness
You can see that shit slipping into Dany right now..

 

[futureshock]

My prediction... Littlefinger takes the throne in some grimey way

I don't think that buddy will make it past the next choke out.

 

[Built4Life]

I don't think that buddy will make it past the next choke out.

Maybe but if I have learned one thing from this show and that is the most honorable don't last long

 

[dawilleyone]

If you think Tywin (for one second) ever had ANY REAL INTENTION of actually 'sending Tyrion to The Wall'.....

I think Tywin "protected" Tyrion to a certain extent until it became no long practical to do so. Tyrion was a bad card that was dealt to Tywin, but he was still gonna play that hand to win if he could.

To him Tyrion was a Lannister above all else and therefore could be used to preserve and promote the Lannister name. So I do think that Tywin would have avoided executing Tyrion in KL if he could just to avoid the spectacle of it all. Remember going to the Wall was effectively an extended death sentence as far the rest of the realm was concerned.

Remember Jamie was off the table as far as providing a legitimate Lannister heir due to his membership in the Kings Guard so Tyrion was needed.

Tywin knew his offspring pretty well. He knew Jamie and Cersei were fuckin. I'm not even certain he didn't suspect Jamie would try to free Tyrion. He wasn't at all surprised to see Tyrion outside his shitter with a crossbow leveled at him.

 

[grownazzblakman]

So I do think that Tywin would have avoided executing Tyrion in KL if he could just to avoid the spectacle of it all. Remember going to the Wall was effectively an extended death sentence as far the rest of the realm was concerned.

Remember Jamie was off the table as far as providing a legitimate Lannister heir due to his membership in the Kings Guard so Tyrion was needed.

As far as Tywin was concerned..... Tyrion was never needed.
The whole deal about 'sending Tyrion to the Wall' was made ENTIRELY FOR JAMIE ... NOT TO SAVE TYRION.

Watch the clip. Listen to how Tywin sets up the Deal so damn fast ... Because Tywin was several steps ahead of Jamie.
And watch Jamie's facial reaction (from the 1:35 mark to 2:05 mark) as he realizes that Tywin had PLANNED it all out.



Tywin KNEW Jamie was eventually going to 'beg for mercy' for his little brother.... and he used that Love against him & outsmarted him.

Listen to the Deal.

Once Jamie takes his cloak off. That's it. No more Kingsguard. It's Over. Tywin gets exactly what he wants.
So the other half of the deal (ie Tyrion actually joining the Night's Watch)... is MOOT.

It takes OVER A WHOLE MONTH to travel from Kings Landing to Winterfell.. and even longer to reach The Wall.
Jamie is supposed to remove his cloak... BEFORE... Tyrion actually ARRIVES at the Wall. (Keyword: Arrive)

The deal was not dependent on Tyrion... 'Arriving at the Wall'.
It was dependent on Tyrion... 'Leaving Kings Landing' (with the assumption that he was HEADING to the Wall to live out the rest of his days).

That's the key difference. That's how you know that Tywin was going to kill Tyrion.
Because he made 'no guarantees' (nor did he ensure) that Tyrion would ARRIVE SAFELY at the Wall.

Tywin only wanted Jamie to remove his White Cloak... voluntarily.
Once that happens, all bets are off.

Once Jamie takes his White Cloak off... Tywin does not CARE what happens to Tyrion the DAY AFTER he leaves Kings Landing... or a MONTH after he's been gone.

Whoever was 'escorting' Tyrion probably would've killed him after a day (or 2) on the road.
Then they would've turned around & headed right back to Kings Landing.

And by that time.... Jamie could do nothing about it.
Because he would no longer be a member of the KingsGuard.

Tywin knew his offspring pretty well. He knew Jamie and Cersei were fuckin.

Ummmm... no. He did not.

Tywin heard 'rumors' about Jamie & Cersei... and lived completely in denial.
He never ONCE thought ANY of those 'rumors' were True.

Skip to the 4:00 min mark.

 

[daking181]

Fucked a wilding/taught her to read
Stole a valaryan steel sword
Killed a Thenn
Got into college without ACT testing

And being a stepdad

 

[stretchwallz]

Tywin Lannister suffered from a severe inferiority complex

...due to his father Tytos being weak and feeble minded

Legacy is all that mattered to him and making sure no one laughed at the Lannister name again. He became ruthless and cunning in the process.

His children each feature a characteristic of his personality

• Cersei has his inferiority complex and cruelty
• Jamie has his military skill and generalship
• Tyrion has his political acumen and statesmanship

 

[dbrizzz]

I think Tywin "protected" Tyrion to a certain extent until it became no long practical to do so. Tyrion was a bad card that was dealt to Tywin, but he was still gonna play that hand to win if he could.

To him Tyrion was a Lannister above all else and therefore could be used to preserve and promote the Lannister name. So I do think that Tywin would have avoided executing Tyrion in KL if he could just to avoid the spectacle of it all. Remember going to the Wall was effectively an extended death sentence as far the rest of the realm was concerned.

Remember Jamie was off the table as far as providing a legitimate Lannister heir due to his membership in the Kings Guard so Tyrion was needed.

Tywin knew his offspring pretty well. He knew Jamie and Cersei were fuckin. I'm not even certain he didn't suspect Jamie would try to free Tyrion. He wasn't at all surprised to see Tyrion outside his shitter with a crossbow leveled at him.

Don't forget that the plan was for Jaime to quit the kings guard and go back to the Rock to extend the family line, in return for Tyrion being sent to the wall. Tywin fucked that all up when he put Shea on the stand.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Maybe but if I have learned one thing from this show and that is the most honorable don't last long

With Finger he's only alive as long as he's useful
In the end if they get aligned with everyone else he might not be useful enough to keep around.

 

[ViCiouS]

Sometimes I wonder if you've been watching the same tv Show as the rest of us.
Watch the WHOLE CLIP I posted below and ask yourself if Tywin 'took no pleasure' in what he did to the Starks at the Red Wedding.


I never spoke about every combat officer in Vietnam, Dessert Storm or Iraqi Freedom.

I was only talking about Tywin & Cersei... 2 Fictional TV Characters. NOT real Soldiers.

Watch the WHOLE CLIP I posted below and ask yourself if Tywin 'took no pleasure' in what he did to the Starks at the Red Wedding.

From the 4:00 min mark to the 5:30 mark... Tywin is VERY 'proud of himself' & what he accomplished.
So Yes, I'd say his 'pride' and 'smug demeanor'....... is equivalent to 'taking pleasure' in the violence.

His smug attitude.... is quite sadistic.
That's EXACTLY where Cersei gets her attitude from.
But she takes it to 'new heights'.

Tywin gives you..... a slick 'smirk behind closed doors'.
But Cersei gives you..... 'visible enjoyment written all over her face' in public.

But they BOTH are 'taking pleasure' in their sadistic actions.



^^ You are wrong about all of this.
I suspect you are confusing alot of stuff you read in the books.... with the actual TV show.

Tywin was never 'shocked' by the outcome of the Red Wedding.
That was the outcome he INTENDED to happen from the very beginning.

Yes, Tywin ABSOLUTELY ordered the 'wholesale slaughter' of the Starks.... at the Red Wedding... in complete 'violation of host rights'.

The Stark forces had to take a 'time-out' from fighting in a War.... to hold a 'wedding ceremony' for 1 day.... so they could cross the Frey bridge the very next day... and go right back to fighting a War again.

So in the midst of a War... that Wedding was the ONLY location (and time) that Robb & his whole Army would ever 'let their guard down' long enough to get caught slipping. And Tywin knew it. Because he KNEW Walder Frey would have absolutely no problem having a 'despicable reputation' for violating 'host rights' attached to his family name... if it meant he would control the Riverlands.

Btw, here is the whole scene when the Small Council discusses the aftermath of the Red Wedding.

When Tyrion says "They North will never forget this"... just wait for Tywin's SAVAGE-ASS response.
Then ask yourself whether or not.... he is a 'murderous bastard'... right down to his Bone Marrow.






If you think Tywin DID NOT KNOW that the Mountain would rape that Martell woman.... You're crazy.

That's like saying...
Tywin ordered Ramsay Bolton to kill someone.... but he had NO IDEA that Ramsay would actually FLAY THEM also.

C'mon, man. He absolutely knew.

Tywin knows ALL the violent habits & heinous brutality his Bannerman are capable of.... Especially the Mountain.

Watch the clip I posted above. Start at the 5:30 mark.
He suggests to Tyrion (in-a-very-indirect-manner) that he should probably "Rape" Sansa, to produce an heir.

That scene ALONE should tell you that Tywin HAS NO QUALMS AT ALL about ordering a 'Rape'.
Either directly. Or indirectly.



You're not watching the same show.

Tywin was never FORCED to sentence Tyrion to death.... because Tyrion should never have been ON TRIAL in the first place.
Tywin could have SILENCED all of Cersei's 'false accusations' right on the spot. if he wanted to.

But he chose not to.... Because he saw it as a golden opportunity to kill Tyrion after holding a 'rigged trial'... and REMAIN BLAMELESS.

If you think Tywin (for one second) ever had ANY REAL INTENTION of actually 'sending Tyrion to The Wall'.....


"You haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

Sometimes I wonder if you've been watching the same tv Show as the rest of us.
Watch the WHOLE CLIP I posted below and ask yourself if Tywin 'took no pleasure' in what he did to the Starks at the Red Wedding.


I never spoke about every combat officer in Vietnam, Dessert Storm or Iraqi Freedom.

I was only talking about Tywin & Cersei... 2 Fictional TV Characters. NOT real Soldiers.

Watch the WHOLE CLIP I posted below and ask yourself if Tywin 'took no pleasure' in what he did to the Starks at the Red Wedding.

From the 4:00 min mark to the 5:30 mark... Tywin is VERY 'proud of himself' & what he accomplished.
So Yes, I'd say his 'pride' and 'smug demeanor'....... is equivalent to 'taking pleasure' in the violence.

His smug attitude.... is quite sadistic.
That's EXACTLY where Cersei gets her attitude from.
But she takes it to 'new heights'.

Tywin gives you..... a slick 'smirk behind closed doors'.
But Cersei gives you..... 'visible enjoyment written all over her face' in public.

But they BOTH are 'taking pleasure' in their sadistic actions.



^^ You are wrong about all of this.
I suspect you are confusing alot of stuff you read in the books.... with the actual TV show.

Tywin was never 'shocked' by the outcome of the Red Wedding.
That was the outcome he INTENDED to happen from the very beginning.

Yes, Tywin ABSOLUTELY ordered the 'wholesale slaughter' of the Starks.... at the Red Wedding... in complete 'violation of host rights'.

The Stark forces had to take a 'time-out' from fighting in a War.... to hold a 'wedding ceremony' for 1 day.... so they could cross the Frey bridge the very next day... and go right back to fighting a War again.

So in the midst of a War... that Wedding was the ONLY location (and time) that Robb & his whole Army would ever 'let their guard down' long enough to get caught slipping. And Tywin knew it. Because he KNEW Walder Frey would have absolutely no problem having a 'despicable reputation' for violating 'host rights' attached to his family name... if it meant he would control the Riverlands.

Btw, here is the whole scene when the Small Council discusses the aftermath of the Red Wedding.

When Tyrion says "They North will never forget this"... just wait for Tywin's SAVAGE-ASS response.
Then ask yourself whether or not.... he is a 'murderous bastard'... right down to his Bone Marrow.






If you think Tywin DID NOT KNOW that the Mountain would rape that Martell woman.... You're crazy.

That's like saying...
Tywin ordered Ramsay Bolton to kill someone.... but he had NO IDEA that Ramsay would actually FLAY THEM also.

C'mon, man. He absolutely knew.

Tywin knows ALL the violent habits & heinous brutality his Bannerman are capable of.... Especially the Mountain.

Watch the clip I posted above. Start at the 5:30 mark.
He suggests to Tyrion (in-a-very-indirect-manner) that he should probably "Rape" Sansa, to produce an heir.

That scene ALONE should tell you that Tywin HAS NO QUALMS AT ALL about ordering a 'Rape'.
Either directly. Or indirectly.



You're not watching the same show.

Tywin was never FORCED to sentence Tyrion to death.... because Tyrion should never have been ON TRIAL in the first place.
Tywin could have SILENCED all of Cersei's 'false accusations' right on the spot. if he wanted to.

But he chose not to.... Because he saw it as a golden opportunity to kill Tyrion after holding a 'rigged trial'... and REMAIN BLAMELESS.

If you think Tywin (for one second) ever had ANY REAL INTENTION of actually 'sending Tyrion to The Wall'.....


"You haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

If you can interpret pleasure / satisfaction in any part of that scene - all I will say is you don't understand pragmatism ... so you are missing Tywin being the ultimate "ends justify the means" character - which is why you are so off base about him - for example:

Your arguments about all of Tywin's orders to the Mountain- in particular the argument you made about Tywin sending him into the village -logically would also define / apply to military officers fighting insurgents.

In Tywin's case he doesn't care about "how" all that matters to him are the results.

 

[Built4Life]

With Finger he's only alive as long as he's useful
In the end if they get aligned with everyone else he might not be useful enough to keep around.

I think he may be one of the last ones standing. You gotta remember he started all this shit. He has played the real long game.

 

[crossovernegro]

Tormund is gonna be mean muggin Jamie when he sees her talking to him

I expect a good reunion now that Joff's true killer is known - it'll be complicated
the Tywin thing is water under the bridge
and he knows in his heart that Cersi no longer loves him
In many ways he is as different from s1 as Arya is - thats a different man now
also look forward to he and Brienne having another convo

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

I think he may be one of the last ones standing. You gotta remember he started all this shit. He has played the real long game.

The only way he survives is if he does what he did the 1st time. He was nowhere near none of this shit so if he goes to where the red woman is then sure he'll survive. as soon as shit got thick he made an alliance to get out until things got settled.
he's in the thick of it now though so we'll see.
if he stays in the thick and doesn't sit back he's going to die.
if he sits back to pick up the pieces.. possibly. but at the same time if they don't defeat the night king won't be anything left including him so it'll be moot.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Tormund is gonna be mean muggin Jamie when he sees her talking to him

classic shit
he loves her for everything she is.
everyone else won't fuck with her for everything she is not

maybe she'll wake up and realize it one day.

 

[PsiBorg]

My prediction... Littlefinger takes the throne in some grimey way

Littlefinger will never sit on the Iron Throne... Someone has to be loyal to you in order for you to get there. Even though people hate Cersi, they are loyal to the Lannisters. People are loyal to the Targaryens. People are loyal to the Starks. Littlefinger is all by himself.

The best he can hope for is to be "The Hand." That's one reason why he wants Sansa. Sansa has a name that people would be loyal too; so he could try to rule through her. Sansa has been one of the most ignorant characters in the show. If I was pimpin', I'd choose her to pimp upon, and that's exactly what he is doing.

Jon already hates Littlefinger... So, Littlefinger's days may be numbered. He better hope Bran doesn't tell Jon that Littlefinger pushed his crazy auntie through the Moon Door and Sansa knew it and didn't say anything.

 

[Jay_from_dade]

Jamie is complex. great strategist now after them L's
love's his sister, can't help who he loves.
Love his brother so that reunion is going to be heartbreaking
but also pushed Bran out the window

With the exception of Bran, Jamie has really done no wrong.

I haate all the Starks so I been forgave him for that

 

[Jay_from_dade]

its going to be the Mad King choice all over again
his oath / love for Cersi vs saving many lives, and he'll choose the greater good again

Yall keep saying Jamie is going to kill Cersi, but nothing has ever suggested he would ever hurt her, no matter what she has done.

Now with this new information about Geoffrey, it may come down to him choosing To save Tyrion over her. That to me would be the only plausible reason they have a falling out. Tyrion.

Other than that he is pretty much ride or die with her.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

With the exception of Bran, Jamie has really done no wrong.

I haate all the Starks so I been forgave him for that

i take the bran shit as everyone has done something nobody's hands are clean on the show but it don't define him

 

[stretchwallz]

Yall keep saying Jamie is going to kill Cersi, but nothing has ever suggested he would ever hurt her, no matter what she has done.

I can see Jamie killing her ....he's already proven to place the lives of the many over the few by killing Mad King Aerys Targaryen

Look at his face when she's being named Queen of the 7 kingdoms after she blew up Sept of Baelor

Cersei even says he's been distant since she's been named Queen, she even asks "are you afraid of me?"

Ever since his adventures with Brienne he's been looking inward more.

He's only fucked one woman his whole life... Cersei. If he gets another piece of ass he won't be spellbind by her anymore.

Jamie has a solid moral compass ...except for things involving Cersei (but that connection is fading)

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

I can see Jamie killing her ....he's already proven to place the lives of the many over the few by killing Mad King Aerys Targaryen

Look at his face when she's being named Queen of the 7 kingdoms after she blew up Sept of Baelor

Cersei even says he's been distant since she's been named Queen, she even asks "are you afraid of me?"

Ever since his adventures with Brienne he's been looking inward more.

He's only fucked one woman his whole life... Cersei. If he gets another piece of ass he won't be spellbind by her anymore.

Jamie has a solid moral compass ...except for things involving Cersei (but that connection is fading)

"Should I be?"

I'm willing to bet he had a similar conversation with the mad king.

 

[Jay_from_dade]

I can see Jamie killing her ....he's already proven to place the lives of the many over the few by killing Mad King Aerys Targaryen

Look at his face when she's being named Queen of the 7 kingdoms after she blew up Sept of Baelor

Cersei even says he's been distant since she's been named Queen, she even asks "are you afraid of me?"

Ever since his adventures with Brienne he's been looking inward more.

He's only fucked one woman his whole life... Cersei. If he gets another piece of ass he won't be spellbind by her anymore.

Jamie has a solid moral compass ...except for things involving Cersei (but that connection is fading)

"Should I be?"

I'm willing to bet he had a similar conversation with the mad king.

I just don't see it. That would take a darkness Jamie just doesn't have.

Him killing Cersi and it not being related to Tyrion would seem out of left field for me.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

you don't think we'll hear this soon?

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

I just don't see it. That would take a darkness Jamie just doesn't have.

Him killing Cersi and it not being related to Tyrion would seem out of left field for me.

It would be directly related to Tyrion. I said he'd have to choose, that's my theory rooted in nothing but TV observation

 

[grownazzblakman]

If you can interpret pleasure / satisfaction in any part of that scene - all I will say is you don't understand pragmatism ... so you are missing Tywin being the ultimate "ends justify the means" character - which is why you are so off base about him - for example:

Your arguments about all of Tywin's orders to the Mountain- in particular the argument you made about Tywin sending him into the village -logically would also define / apply to military officers fighting insurgents.

In Tywin's case he doesn't care about "how" all that matters to him are the results.

"If you can interpret pleasure / satisfaction in any part of that scene - all I will say is you don't understand pragmatism"

^^ To answer this... I'll repost the video.... Just skip to the 4:45 mark...
When Tywin says: "Do you want to write a song for the dead Starks? Go ahead. Write one."

That's NOT pragmatism. At all.

That's a downright BOAST. He's MOCKING the Starks, in the aftermath.

Because Tywin is so SATISFIED with his recent accomplishments... that he feels smug enough to 'Get Cheeky' about the whole situation.

(It's like he's saying: "Want to write a song about it? Go Ahead... Knock yourself out, chief." )

It's not that hard to see.
Neither is slightly greasy 'smirk' on his face from the 4:11 to 4:15 mark.




"Your arguments about all of Tywin's orders to the Mountain- in particular the argument you made about Tywin sending him into the village -logically would also define / apply to military officers fighting insurgents."

^^ I'm only talking about a FICTIONAL tv show. Point. Blank. Period.
I haven't said a single word about any (real-life) military.

You keep attempting to 'draw an analogy' between FICTIONAL CHARACTERS... and REAL LIFE.
Those are YOUR assumptions / beliefs. Don't assign them to me.


"In Tywin's case he doesn't care about "how" all that matters to him are the results."

^^ You are contradicting yourself with this statement.

You cannot assume 'he would never order the Mountain to Rape Elia Martell'..... if Tywin doesn't care "how" she gets killed.
(Getting raped is a DISTINCTLY 'possible outcome' from his henchmen. And Tywin KNOWS it.)

You really think Tywin would 'suggest' that (small-ass) Tyrion should go 'rape' Sansa... but at the same time... he doesn't think that the LARGEST + MOST SAVAGE BRUTE in all 7 Kingdoms would ever rape Elia Martell, before killing her??

C'mon man.

So, what you are saying is: Tywin does NOT care if Tyrion has to (literally) rape Sansa to produce an heir.... But he DOES care if The Mountain rapes Elia Martell before killing her.... when the only thing that matters to him are the results.

No way. That makes no damn sense at all.

Tywin has never been interested in HONORABLE deaths.
So he would never care if a woman 'he wanted dead' got raped right before she was killed.

If you think he DOES care.... "You haven't been paying attention" - Ramsay Bolton

I could EASILY see Tywin telling the Mountain: "Find the Martell woman... I don't care what it takes, or what you DO to her.... just make sure she's dead before you come back here!!"

And the Mountain takes that command... and runs amok with it.

Cuz Tywin would never say: "Find the Martell woman... and kill her... but don't rape her That's not a good look"

 

[ViCiouS]

That's NOT pragmatism. At all.

yes it is - like I said you can't grasp it... you think its a boast when in fact it was a rebuke - the reason he asked Tyrion to stay was to rebuke him for neglecting his "duties".
Tywin is telling Tyrion to get his priorities straight
In Tywin's POV -Tyrion is wasting emotion and Tywin's time on a something neither of them have the power to change
and worse yet why should he want to change or mourn something that (in Tywin's pov) benefits the family

^^ I'm only talking about a FICTIONAL tv show. Point. Blank. Period.
I haven't said a single word about any (real-life) military.

and thats why you aren't able to see the characters nor plot clearly...
- this work of fiction draws from western European history, the betrayals brutality various key decisions, motivations vendettas etc - are all drawn from a real history of wars and politics.

This explains why in this thread your concepts of 'murderous' 'sadistic' 'pragmatic' etc are only words to you without ever applying real context -

You keep attempting to 'draw an analogy' between FICTIONAL CHARACTERS... and REAL LIFE.
Those are YOUR assumptions / beliefs. Don't assign them to me.

no - I assumed nothing - the writers of the book and the TV series have stated in multiple interviews about the plot and character motivations - GoT is based on and drawn from real events in European history
the only thing not reality based is the magic and magic based animals / beings

^^ You are contradicting yourself with this statement.

uhhh no - because thats the definition of pragmatism - again you just seem to apply words without any context

You cannot assume 'he would never order the Mountain to Rape Elia Martell'..... if Tywin doesn't care "how" she gets killed.

I said Tywin didn't order the rape - I said the character ordered the execution and later I followed up with he only cared about the results...

You really think Tywin would 'suggest' that (small-ass) Tyrion should go 'rape' Sansa... but at the same time... he doesn't think that the LARGEST + MOST SAVAGE BRUTE in all 7 Kingdoms would ever rape Elia Martell, before killing her??

again you completely miss the forest for the trees because you can't grasp that character's motivations
at the time Tywin saw an opportunity to claim Winterfel- Tywin could careless how Tyrion did it - all that mattered to him was Sansa give birth to a Lannister
Same way that all that mattered to Tywin during the sack of Kings Landing was that all Targeryans needed to be eliminated - this included Elia and her children - how they died mattered not to him

So, what you are saying is: Tywin does NOT care if Tyrion has to (literally) rape Sansa to produce an heir.... But he DOES care if The Mountain rapes Elia Martell before killing her.... when the only thing that matters to him are the results.

no - I posted that he didn't care how she died - you are the one using words like possibility and care

Tywin has never been interested in HONORABLE deaths.
So he would never care if a woman 'he wanted dead' got raped right before she was killed

exactly - there is nothing practical gained in honor during combat
all that matters is that she and her children are dead at the end of day - he didn't care about anything else

If you think he DOES care....

unfortunately there is nothing in the show to support your assumption

 

[stretchwallz]

It would be directly related to Tyrion. I said he'd have to choose, that's my theory rooted in nothing but TV observation

He's being affected by other women, Brienne and most recently Olenna Tyrell... who in contrast make Cersei seem tyrannical

Also Euron may play a part in his future decision to kill her (jealousy)

All the signs are there ...it will be tragic for Jamie but in the moment necessary.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

He's being affected by other women, Brienne and most recently Olenna Tyrell... who in contrast make Cersei seem tyrannical

Also Euron may play a part in his future decision to kill her (jealousy)

All the signs are there ...it will be tragic for Jamie but in the moment necessary.

Jamie is always doing what's necessary no matter what his compass is just built like that
i don't know anything about his mother but he's not like tywin so maybe he's like her

 

[godofwine]

This one is my favorite though

Cersei stays up at night listening to The Jacksons "Torture" maxi-cassette

For the young heads

 

[PsiBorg]

Here's a young Queen of Thorns...