For the sake of boxing, Ortiz needs to beat Mayweather

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It's unlikely and I'm rooting for Mayweather BUT boxing needs Ortiz to win.
There are two big time superstars in boxing: Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Manny Pacquiao. Both are clearly in the last days of their careers. One of them is fighting another guy on his last legs of great fights, Juan Manuel Marquez, and doesn't seem in a hurry to fight any of the young, hungry welter or jr welterweights.
The other is fighting a young, strong, at times exciting fighter who could appeal to a wide spectrum of fans, Victor Ortiz. Once (if) Floyd fights Manny, then it's over. After they fight, even if they have a two, three fight series, that would be it for big money fights in boxing. And after they fight and make tons and tons of money, neither of them would have much reason to keep fighting and risking their safety.
Now, say Vic beats Mayweather. This wouldn't be like the Castillo near loss where only the hardcores saw it and he was able to bounce back and dominate a rematch. This would be a loss in front of over a million buying fans and countless more in theaters and bars and barbershops (where I saw his last couple fights). While it would kill a Mayweather-Pacquiao fight, it creates a Ortiz-Pacquiao fight and it could lead to an Ortiz-Khan fight and that's not even mentioning an Ortiz-Mayweather rematch.
An Ortiz win opens up a whole lot of possibilities that don't exist if Mayweather does what he's expected to do.
Mayweather didn't become a big crossover star until he beat the previous biggest crossover star, Oscar De La Hoya, in front of a huge audience.
Just a thought.
 
Why so Maidana can lose again at 140 and then move up to take Ortiz' heart again only to become the king at welter...

In effect, creating another star. At a higher weight, I wouldn't be so sure Ortiz would get beaten by Maidana. I don't see how Ortiz would do any better against Peterson because Lamont just seemed to outsmart and maneuver him but Maidana outmuscled him. Not having to lose twenty pounds to make weight would make Ortiz a stronger fighter at 147 than he was at 140.

Either way, boxing is dereft of stars not named Mayweather or Pacquiao and the only way this changes is if they lose to a young up and coming guy with 5-8 years of fighting left in him.
 
we need this superfight...until that happens I rather not see them lose....

yes I'm selfish :lol:
 
we need this superfight...until that happens I rather not see them lose....

yes I'm selfish :lol:

I agree and feel the same way. I'm speaking on the behalf of the long term benefit of boxing. Once May and Pac set the ppv record, who's next to even get a million buys?
 
I agree and feel the same way. I'm speaking on the behalf of the long term benefit of boxing. Once May and Pac set the ppv record, who's next to even get a million buys?

they shouldn't have to carry a sport but just enjoy this moment....good & bad fighters show up after the greats hang 'em up....no different here...

Boxing needs to clean up all these weight divisions & sanctioning bodies...promoting the sport more to the youth...thats what will do good for the sport overall...
 
they shouldn't have to carry a sport but just enjoy this moment....good & bad fighters show up after the greats hang 'em up....no different here...

Boxing needs to clean up all these weight divisions & sanctioning bodies...promoting the sport more to the youth...thats what will do good for the sport overall...

There will be new stars eventually but they have to beat the old stars to get there.
Ali beat Floyd Patterson and Sonny Liston
Tyson beat Larry Holmes
De La Hoya beat Whitaker and Chavez
Mayweather beat De La Hoya

A star can't become a superstar beating other lower lights.
 
they shouldn't have to carry a sport but just enjoy this moment....good & bad fighters show up after the greats hang 'em up....no different here...

Boxing needs to clean up all these weight divisions & sanctioning bodies...promoting the sport more to the youth...thats what will do good for the sport overall...
:yes: c/s 100% . ortiz pulling a buster douglas would do more harm than good because it would take some of the luster off the "super fight" .

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side note i need to see more of this dude
 
There will be new stars eventually but they have to beat the old stars to get there.
Ali beat Floyd Patterson and Sonny Liston
Tyson beat Larry Holmes
De La Hoya beat Whitaker and Chavez
Mayweather beat De La Hoya

A star can't become a superstar beating other lower lights.

Its not necessary IMO bruh.....alot young Boxers beat older stars way past their prime....
 
:yes: c/s 100% . ortiz pulling a buster douglas would do more harm than good because it would take some of the luster off the "super fight" .

side note i need to see more of this dude


My point is, from a "What's next?" perspective, fuck the "super fight". After that, what's next? The possibilities shrink quickly since neither of them will have much motivation to keep fighting younger and more dangerous opponents.

Its not necessary IMO bruh.....alot young Boxers beat older stars way past their prime....

Has that ever mattered really? Most of the young guys beat past their prime stars but that's just how it works and always has. Boxing has managed to survive and at times thrive, because old superstars fight and lose and a new superstar is made. If Floyd had stayed with Arum and fought Cotto and Margarito and not Oscar, he wouldn't be half the superstar he is now. Beating guys on your level is nice for hard core fans but it doesn't fighters break through to a greater audience.
 
My point is, from a "What's next?" perspective, fuck the "super fight". After that, what's next? The possibilities shrink quickly since neither of them will have much motivation to keep fighting younger and more dangerous opponents.



Has that ever mattered really? Most of the young guys beat past their prime stars but that's just how it works and always has. Boxing has managed to survive and at times thrive, because old superstars fight and lose and a new superstar is made. If Floyd had stayed with Arum and fought Cotto and Margarito and not Oscar, he wouldn't be half the superstar he is now. Beating guys on your level is nice for hard core fans but it doesn't fighters break through to a greater audience.

good post...you are right...I just could careless about the casuals....:lol:
 
I like and trust Ortiz at Welterweight, but I hate that his belt is on the line. Floyd will win it more than likely, then what? If Floyd gets a wild hair up his ass about some money or OSDT for his next fight, then the title will be stripped and handed to a bum. After that, the bum will be kept away from all elite competition and we will end up with another Chavez Jr situation.

As far as the next PPV stars, Im sick to my stomach with these "rising stars" nowadays. Most of them have yet to ake $1M, build a reasonable fan base, or perform well in the ring, but they try to jump from A to Z and dance with the big dogs. The 140lb division was filled with promise and stars, and looked what these young idiots managed to do to ruin it. Khan (which Im not a big fan of) is the only one in that division that is playing his part, and has a great fan base,and some star power. Thanks to Tim "Super Skull" Bradley, its going to take that much longer to find out who the man is in the division. This dude has two major titles, no fan base, has yet to make over $800k, has contract issues, has yet to impress viewers, and he is crying for a May and Pac fight. I wish somebody of some importance in the sport would let him know where he stands, because he is obviously in a deep state of delusion.

What ever happened to the days when De La Hoya, Trinidad, Mosley, Vargas, Mayorga (and the list goes on) were fighting each other and setting PPV on fire? They were all under 30 at the time. Hell, Varags was under 25 when he was on PPV in big fights. The only PPV I know at 140 as of lately, was Morales vs Maidana (great fight by the way) and that is a start, I guess. These guys haven't earned a damn thing as of lately, but they want 8-figure paydays already. Dont look forward to any new PPV stars in the near future until Pac and May give us these last hand full of fights :smh: So its Pac and May until further notice. People are so blowed by the way boxing has lost its grip over the last few years, and Im always on the fighthype.com threads daily...going the hell off!
 
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I'm kind of split on this issue, part of me does agree with you but.... If Mayweather is keeping it real in saying that he wants to keep going and fight with more frequency - I think it wouldn't be so bad if he won in spectacular fashion and kept fighting big names or at least young hungry dudes with skills like Ortiz or Khan. Even if the Pac fight doesn't happen, if Floyd can adapt and be more exciting like B-Hop has done lately - I think that's great for boxing. If both Floyd and Manny look great in their next fights, I'm pretty certain both sides will come to some sort of compromise.
 
good post...you are right...I just could careless about the casuals....:lol:

I feel you. Casual fans can be annoying as fuck with their bandwagon jumping asses.:D



Officially, he beat Whitaker. Better?:D

I'm kind of split on this issue, part of me does agree with you but.... If Mayweather is keeping it real in saying that he wants to keep going and fight with more frequency - I think it wouldn't be so bad if he won in spectacular fashion and kept fighting big names or at least young hungry dudes with skills like Ortiz or Khan. Even if the Pac fight doesn't happen, if Floyd can adapt and be more exciting like B-Hop has done lately - I think that's great for boxing. If both Floyd and Manny look great in their next fights, I'm pretty certain both sides will come to some sort of compromise.

Now, if I really believed Floyd was going to keep fighting, that would change my mind. But he's a part time fighter now and when/if he cashes that $50-$60 million dollars from fighting Manny, what else would he have to prove plus he'll be in his late 30s. The pull of being a celebrity and dad will keep him out of the ring.
 
It's unlikely and I'm rooting for Mayweather BUT boxing needs Ortiz to win.
There are two big time superstars in boxing: Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Manny Pacquiao. Both are clearly in the last days of their careers. One of them is fighting another guy on his last legs of great fights, Juan Manuel Marquez, and doesn't seem in a hurry to fight any of the young, hungry welter or jr welterweights.
The other is fighting a young, strong, at times exciting fighter who could appeal to a wide spectrum of fans, Victor Ortiz. Once (if) Floyd fights Manny, then it's over. After they fight, even if they have a two, three fight series, that would be it for big money fights in boxing. And after they fight and make tons and tons of money, neither of them would have much reason to keep fighting and risking their safety.
Now, say Vic beats Mayweather. This wouldn't be like the Castillo near loss where only the hardcores saw it and he was able to bounce back and dominate a rematch. This would be a loss in front of over a million buying fans and countless more in theaters and bars and barbershops (where I saw his last couple fights). While it would kill a Mayweather-Pacquiao fight, it creates a Ortiz-Pacquiao fight and it could lead to an Ortiz-Khan fight and that's not even mentioning an Ortiz-Mayweather rematch.
An Ortiz win opens up a whole lot of possibilities that don't exist if Mayweather does what he's expected to do.
Mayweather didn't become a big crossover star until he beat the previous biggest crossover star, Oscar De La Hoya, in front of a huge audience.
Just a thought.

This is true, but DAM IT, Floyd can promote a fight and I just saw that HBO Kellerman interview and Floyd was TEACHING dude how to talk smack and work the camera, in the the end, Ortiz was worshiping dude.

I think a win would SOLIDIFY Floyd 's position as an all time great and people would go CRAZY (even more then now) for that Pac fight....

And win or lose rematch or no any fight Floyd would o especially if its in Texas/Vegas/NY/Staples Center....

would BREAK records regardless of who he fought...

because HATERS would SALIVATE TO SEE Floyd KNOCKED OUT EVEN MORE and there are a couple of fighters like Khan and Berto who COULD draw on their own...
 
In my opinion there only 3 things that I need to happen as a result from this fight.

1) PBF wins and he fights Manny
2) Ortiz wins and this have a rematch
3) PBF wins or loses and actually retires and stops being a part time fighter.

Anything thing else would suck. I am not convinced Ortiz has a great chance to win. He has a chance, but I'm not convinced he is the guy to dethrone PBF. But if he is able to get PBF out of his defense first style he has a chance. If PBF gets old on that night. Ortiz has a chance. But those are two big ifs.
 
This is true, but DAM IT, Floyd can promote a fight and I just saw that HBO Kellerman interview and Floyd was TEACHING dude how to talk smack and work the camera, in the the end, Ortiz was worshiping dude.

I think a win would SOLIDIFY Floyd 's position as an all time great and people would go CRAZY (even more then now) for that Pac fight....

And win or lose rematch or no any fight Floyd would o especially if its in Texas/Vegas/NY/Staples Center....

would BREAK records regardless of who he fought...

because HATERS would SALIVATE TO SEE Floyd KNOCKED OUT EVEN MORE and there are a couple of fighters like Khan and Berto who COULD draw on their own...


So I reading this and :yes: and then you say

there are a couple of fighters like Khan and Berto who COULD draw on their own

and lost me. Khan can draw in England and is moving to the next level of stardom so there's an argument there but Berto?
 
So I reading this and :yes: and then you say

there are a couple of fighters like Khan and Berto who COULD draw on their own

and lost me. Khan can draw in England and is moving to the next level of stardom so there's an argument there but Berto?

That's what lost you. I was lost by this.

I think a win would SOLIDIFY Floyd 's position as an all time great and people would go CRAZY (even more then now) for that Pac fight....

Unless Ortiz proves something in the ring against PBF. He still is the fighter that cried about not deserving to get hit like that. If Ortiz gets destroyed then it will be another case of a young talent not ready for the big boys. At least to me. He can only get props if the fight Ortiz brings deserves props.
 
That's what lost you. I was lost by this.



Unless Ortiz proves something in the ring against PBF. He still is the fighter that cried about not deserving to get hit like that. If Ortiz gets destroyed then it will be another case of a young talent not ready for the big boys. At least to me. He can only get props if the fight Ortiz brings deserves props.

I agree, actually. But the idea of Berto being a draw and him ending the post with that got all my attention.
Beating Ortiz will be nice, especially if Vic goes on to have a really good career, but if he never fought Victor Ortiz, no one would have noticed.
 
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