Football fans: Neymar is better than Messi, lets discuss..

[Spectrum]

If he does nothing down there, I see no reason in comparing him to Pele or Maradona any longer.

But currently, this kid Neymar is special.

Same shit Ive been saying... I remember there was a big debate about the world cup and some idiot said legends arent made in the World Cup

If Messi doesnt have a breakout world cup in 2014,

His legacy will be done.

 

[Nzinga]

robinho hadt he same buzz came and didnt do shit. the same can be said about denilson. so now i just wait and see till i speak.


this boy has got something
[/MEDIA]

True... but the difference between Neymar and all the other people is his balance, versatility, dimensions as a player....Robinho's main attribute is his speed. On the other had, Neymar has speed, explosiveness, the ability to stop on the dime, change directions and speed off again. Robinho does not do well in stop and go situations. Stop and go's are Messi's bread and butter..Denilson was had excellent ball control. Neymar has excellent ball control and all the skills above... plus the boy is deadly accurate and has fire in the belly...


I am telling you, this boy will be another Pele... Mark my words..

 

[Nzinga]

I dont think Kaka will be placed back on this team man....I think when coach came and made the new team a couple of days later and cut most of all the older players...he was showing that he was going fresh and young. Kaka was already looking like shit...he will be 32 for the new cup...he will only get slower and it is not like he is a great dribbler...he will just take up space in the midfield at that point.

Thank God!

 

[Nzinga]

Im so used to him being a striker at Santos and always playing near the goal because Santos is stacked in the midfield... so I have actually never even imagines him playing in the middle...

but no doubt...I think I actually made a post on the sports board a few months ago saying to watch out for Neymar.. i said this back in May

http://www.bgol.us/board/showpost.php?p=8247210&postcount=3

He is deadly in front of the goal, but sometimes you can actually improve a team with that sort of talent by giving him the whole field as canvas to work with. Because of his ability, he will attract defenders to him and create room for other people. Since he has excellent vision and skills, he will not only create chances for his team, but will still find room for himself. That is the idea behind the number "10" concept. Zidane did that for France; the attempt to do it with Ribery, a winger, is not bearing fruit because Ribery has speed but not much dribbling ability... It worked well for Maradona, who being helplessly one legged, could have flourished as a left winger....

I agree with you that Santos has excellent midfielders, especially their stocky number 10 who fed Neymar time and time again...In the end, Mano Menezes knows more about football than I ever will, so I am sure he will combine the team in the best way...

 

[Spectrum]

plus the boy is deadly accurate
.

I agree with everything you have said but this is the key to me.... that cat is the epitome of a scorer....he is like the younger Ronaldo (not in style or even greatness) in that dude is ridiculously accurate and puts the ball in the goal when given an opportunity.

 

[Spectrum]

He is deadly in front of the goal, but sometimes you can actually improve a team with that sort of talent by giving him the whole field as canvas to work with. Because of his ability, he will attract defenders to him and create room for other people. Since he has excellent vision and skills, he will not only create chances for his team, but will still find room for himself. That is the idea behind the number "10" concept. Zidane did that for France; the attempt to do it with Ribery, a winger, is not bearing fruit because Ribery has speed but not much dribbling ability... It worked well for Maradona, who being helplessly one legged, could have flourished as a left winger....

I agree with you that Santos has excellent midfielders, especially their stocky number 10 who fed Neymar time and time again...In the end, Mano Menezes knows more about football than I ever will, so I am sure he will combine the team in the best way...

That would be interesting to see...Ive never thought about putting him in the middle to see what he can do...I guess my thoughts were just so handicapped by seeing him on a such a middle heavy team for his entire career... but yeah..he certainly has the ability to go out to the middle.... I want to see how he does in Europe... I also still wonder about his frame because he is so damn thin...

 

[afrosoul]

Of course the kid is ridiculously talented but unfortunately talent does not a legend make. Does he have the discipline, strength and stamina to weather a 38 game league schedule plus 2 cup competitions plus champions league plus national team duties in a physical European league. Its not unusual for players to play 4 games in 10 days - knowing the next tackle could break your legs!!! My favorite player is a great example - Fernando Torres - scary talent but no stamina or durability. Until Naymar proves himself in Europe he's little more than a fantastic highlight reel.

On the other hand, the only knock on Messi has been his sub-par national team performance which i am willing to forgive him for given that national teams are more often than not a hodge podge of pouting superstars rather than a cohesive team.

 

[Nzinga]

Great topic, good question. Watched Neymar for the frusta time yesterday. My only issue is the durability of his frame. Will it hold up for him to establish himself in the record books.

The US is a joke. The US work rate was simply too low. For the most part, the US just stood there watching Brazil pass the ball around.

Second, the game is STILL not in the US psyche. Until, the US players dream football, they will never make it at the elite level. It is not to think where the ball is going to be, but to move to where the ball will be and then marvel at what a great move you just made. This you cannot teach. The imagination for the game is a culture.

Oh yea, this is about Neymar... Fuck him... I can't stand the Brazilian national team anyway!

He seems to be a wide enough at the hips and the shoulders; and he is not much smaller than DeMarcus Beasley and Landon Donovan. Remember, Brazilians are small. It is in their genes... many of their African ancestors derived from or through Angola, and as I have said time again, the people in that part of Africa are not that big, being part Khoisan (Bushman)... additionally, many Brazilians are part Indian; and the Indians of South America are small... Look at Argentina, they are also small; the same is true of Paraguay... Previous Brazilian teams tended to be small too... Bebeto was small, Romario was tiny; some say he was only 5'3... It has never stopped or discouraged them... I do not live in Brazil, so I am not sure if they are bothered by a size complex. Perhaps our brother eeewwwwwllll can enlighten us on that subject...


As for the US, I do not think that they stood around or were too timid. I think they were wise to hold their ground. When you play against a player with that sort of individual skill, and you challenge his space, you will be beaten, and expose those behind you. The best thing to do is to try and stay between him and the goal and hope that you can cut off his passes..

As someone said on the African forum, the whole exercise was a manifestation of the disparity in skill between those who learn football on the streets and those who learn it at football camps..

Many of us on this forum, have railed and clamoured for the US to loosen its strictures on its football training philosophy...It needs to encourage players to develop individual skills. Stop trying to teach tactics to five year old. Teach them how to trap the ball, dribble, pass, spin run... let them have fun...The US does well against teams that over-depend on tactics. They know where the passes are going to be and are able cut them off. They also know where the holes are going to be and try to exploit them. Their problems seem to arise when they play teams that play natural football, like Ghana and Brazil. In the Confederations Cup last year, Brazil was playing that bullshit military drill of Dunga and went behind 2-0 to the US. In the second half, Dunga junked the playbook and sunk the US with Jogo Bonito..

 

[Nzinga]

Of course the kid is ridiculously talented but unfortunately talent does not a legend make. Does he have the discipline, strength and stamina to weather a 38 game league schedule plus 2 cup competitions plus champions league plus national team duties in a physical European league. Its not unusual for players to play 4 games in 10 days - knowing the next tackle could break your legs!!! My favorite player is a great example - Fernando Torres - scary talent but no stamina or durability. Until Naymar proves himself in Europe he's little more than a fantastic highlight reel.

On the other hand, the only knock on Messi has been his sub-par national team performance which i am willing to forgive him for given that national teams are more often than not a hodge podge of pouting superstars rather than a cohesive team.

I agree with you on Stamina, but the fact that he is playing (well) in Brazil is a good sign...As for Europe, I think that playing in Brazil is good enough. Brazilians, unlike Africans and Americans, do not play in Europe to get better, they play in Europe to make European teams better in exchange for money.

 

[Spectrum]

Perhaps our brother eeewwwwwllll can enlighten us on that subject...

.

Nothing more to add really... I think you broke it down well.

I do know one thing though..I was completely wrong supporting Dunga and that squad. Dunga knows much more about football that I will ever know and I thought his defensive-minded squad had potential... but even though I said Neymar should have been on there (i said ganso and pato).... he should have also had ganso, pato, and maybe even Ronaldinho as a reserve for his ability to CREATE in the midfield.

You were right man... Brasil was weak in the midfield in comparison to how good they COULD have been with Ganso and Dinho out there...they would have scored a lot more goals

 

[Chiyo]

Neymar is my current fav player, but Andre is better right now.

You could even see it last night. Andre had damn near 6 shots on goal, and didnt even come on until the last 10 or so minutes. Only reason he didnt score was because Guzan was playing his ass off.

 

[DJCandle]

I feel Ganso has more potential. His is like what Xavi is to Messi. He kept Santos together this season, IMO.

Ganso is the glue that holds Santos together. Dribbling in tight spaces, vision, awareness, everything you could ask from a 10. I agree he's got everything Xavi has, and there's no doubt in my mind, he'll end up at Barcelona someday, but the glaring difference between the two right now??

He's not afraid to shoot.

Had it not been for the heroics of Guzan last night, he could've buried a couple.

 

[trick20]

this is an United States of America message board
football is played on sundays by guys that wear helmets.

co-sign....

 

[Chiyo]

Mexico 1970 revisited 40 years later?

Thiago Silva = Carlos Alberto
Robinho = Pele
Ganso = Clodoaldo
Neymar = Jairzinho
Pato = Tostao
Dani Alves=Gérson
Andre=Caju
David Luiz=Everaldo
Michel Bastos/Andre Santos=Marco Antônio

 

[Sampson]

Mexico 1970 revisited 40 years later?

Thiago Silva = Carlos Alberto
Robinho = Pele
Ganso = Clodoaldo
Neymar = Jairzinho
Pato = Tostao
Dani Alves=Gérson
Andre=Caju
David Luiz=Everaldo
Michel Bastos/Andre Santos=Marco Antônio

 

[Chiyo]

Shiiiit

Robinho already played the pele 58 role in 2006, and one upped Pele's 1966 world cup this year in terms of effort. He could totally play the pele role(couple of goals, but major opportunity maker) in the next cup

 

[Spectrum]

and one upped Pele's 1966 world cup this year in terms of effort. :

Pele pretty much got murdered on the field in that world cup though...he was fouled so much and injured so badly by the cheating-hard fouls that he even said he wouldnt play in the world cup again....

 

[Chiyo]

Pele pretty much got murdered on the field in that world cup though...he was fouled so much and injured so badly by the cheating-hard fouls that he even said he wouldnt play in the world cup again....

Yeah shit was ugly. They didnt even make it past the first round, so I know heads rolled.

 

[Efkie]

OP, what are you smoking ?

Neymar looks promising but let's talk about this after he has played in Europe.
Game in Europe is of a "different" level in terms of defense, Team discipline, Attack, Passing, Passion, Strategy etc. compared to Brazil.

For now, I'll agree he has talent

 

[Nzinga]

OP, what are you smoking ?

Neymar looks promising but let's talk about this after he has played in Europe.
Game in Europe is of a "different" level in terms of defense, Team discipline, Attack, Passing, Passion, Strategy etc. compared to Brazil.

For now, I'll agree he has talent

When world club teams used to play each other, the Brazilians were successful against the Europeans. If Dunga had taken Neymar, Brazil would have won the world cup...You are giving the Europeans too much credit. How do we know how good they are when they only play each other?

 

[Sampson]

When world club teams used to play each other, the Brazilians were successful against the Europeans. If Dunga had taken Neymar, Brazil would have won the world cup...You are giving the Europeans too much credit. How do we know how good they are when they only play each other?

Stick to sticking George Washingtons down abused womens' g-strings at seedy strip clubs. You clearly know nothing if you honestly think that 1 player would've won them the cup.

They struggled against Holland because as a team they were poor.

Chin chin.

 

[Nzinga]

Pele pretty much got murdered on the field in that world cup though...he was fouled so much and injured so badly by the cheating-hard fouls that he even said he wouldnt play in the world cup again....

That was Brutal...Pele retired from playing the World cup at the age of 29...In reality, he had 2 more world cups in him...

 

[curryshotta]

When world club teams used to play each other, the Brazilians were successful against the Europeans. If Dunga had taken Neymar, Brazil would have won the world cup...You are giving the Europeans too much credit. How do we know how good they are when they only play each other?

1 player was gonna win them the world cup?

give it a rest

 

[Nzinga]

co-sign....

Patronising people and yet you have an avatar of an African citizen? Go away..

 

[Sampson]

Patronising people and yet you have an avatar of an African citizen? Go away..

Patronizing Americans yet you live in their country?

Chin chin.

 

[Nzinga]

1 player was gonna win them the world cup?

give it a rest

They were not that far, and I actually expected them to prevail with bullshit Dunga system of Defence-offence, no midfield...You must remember the quality of Brazil; half a chance they score. The only thing they lacked was creativity, a spark in midfield... Let Neymar range anywhere on the field, and he start destabilising the other team. And as they proved against a stacked Ivory Coast, one mistake, Brazil is scoring... Adding Neymar to Brazil is not the same as adding him to the US or South Africa... those kinds of teams still have a long way to go... But if you add him to a France, Germany or a Holland, the team becomes and overwhelming favourite. His play makes everyone so much better because he removes the pressure from them.

What Neymar has is an extremely unique and rare set of skills. I have seen JJ Okocha exhibit that ability but with questionable finishing, I have seen Ronaldinho play like that, But Neymar is more complete offensively; I saw Paul Gascoigne do the same thing in 1990 for England, but he was a facilitator more than a finisher. I saw Kalusha Bwalya do the same thing, but Kalusha might as well have had a wooden peg for a right leg. The only player that complete was Pele...Neymar is outrageously talented... If you have played football, you will understand...

Remember, we are talking about Brazil, and the last time a 17-year old starred for them was in Sweden in the summer of 1958...

 

[DJCandle]

Patronizing Americans yet you live in their country?

Chin chin.

You get used to it.

 

[heavyhand]

They were not that far, and I actually expected them to prevail with bullshit Dunga system of Defence-offence, no midfield...You must remember the quality of Brazil; half a chance they score. The only thing they lacked was creativity, a spark in midfield... Let Neymar range anywhere on the field, and he start destabilising the other team. And as they proved against a stacked Ivory Coast, one mistake, Brazil is scoring... Adding Neymar to Brazil is not the same as adding him to the US or South Africa... those kinds of teams still have a long way to go... But if you add him to a France, Germany or a Holland, the team becomes and overwhelming favourite. His play makes everyone so much better because he removes the pressure from them.

What Neymar has is an extremely unique and rare set of skills. I have seen JJ Okocha exhibit that ability but with questionable finishing, I have seen Ronaldinho play like that, But Neymar is more complete offensively; I saw Paul Gascoigne do the same thing in 1990 for England, but he was a facilitator more than a finisher. I saw Kalusha Bwalya do the same thing, but Kalusha might as well have had a wooden peg for a right leg. The only player that complete was Pele...Neymar is outrageously talented... If you have played football, you will understand...

Remember, we are talking about Brazil, and the last time a 17-year old starred for them was in Sweden in the summer of 1958...

fixed my midfield nigga we beating a full strength ghana now

 

[bigvince06]

You have to read this bullshit

Nzinga: I have to agree with you. Donovan is a bitch and will always be one. US football wont be shit until he is no longer the talisman.

As for Neymar, he is a beast but as other posters have said, lets see him do something in Europe. Robinho was hyped just as much and has done next to nothing in England or Spain.

Also, all of this talk about Neymar, Messi, C. Ronaldo et al. makes me appreciate how great Ronaldinho was in his prime. I think it will be a while before we see another Barcelona player get a standing ovation at the Bernabeu or literally use samba moves to score in a champions league match. I hate EVERYTHING about Barcelona but you cannot deny how much of a problem Ronaldinho was.

 

[bigvince06]

Also, don't any of you get too hype about the Community Shield. EPL title and UCL headed to SW6 this season....

 

[charlie dark]

Stick to sticking George Washingtons down abused womens' g-strings at seedy strip clubs. You clearly know nothing if you honestly think that 1 player would've won them the cup.

They struggled against Holland because as a team they were poor.

Chin chin.

Maradona did it for Argentina in 1986....

 

[Sampson]

Maradona did it for Argentina in 1986....

Stick to sticking George Washingtons down abused womens' g-strings at seedy strip clubs. You clearly know nothing if you honestly think that 1 player would've won them the cup.

They struggled against Holland because as a team they were poor.

Chin chin.

.....

 

[charlie dark]

.....

I don't get you...
Brazil as a collective were better than Argentina, so if one man won if for Argentina, why not for an even better team like Brazil?

 

[Spectrum]

Maradona did it for Argentina in 1986....

yeah..Maradona was a one man wrecking machine in 86

 

[Bones]

Its surprising that Nzinga's threads still get attention, truly amazing

What is there to decide my brother... I would go so far as to say Neymar may already be the best football player on the planet...

I know some have called this guy a parody poster, now I am certain that he is