Do any of you agree with Barry Goldwater?

Cristar Mymine

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His criticism of the 1964 civil rights act targeted this idea that the government was legislating morality (based on title 2 of the civil rights act).

Title II

Outlawed discrimination in hotels, motels, restaurants, theaters, and all other public accommodations engaged in interstate commerce; exempted private clubs without defining the term "private."

So, essentially, the government was forcing people to behave and accept others for who they are instead leaving that up to people to make that decision?

What do you guys think? I think this is an interesting argument.
 
If your great grandfather's generation had almost singlehandedly built the richest nation on Earth then you, his grandson, would have more than earned the right to eat at whatever restaurant you want.

Keep in mind it wad called the civil RIGHTS bill nor the civil morals bill
 
Government always enforces behavioral mandates. That is why it exists.
As for morality, the nation changed its rules when the people made them.
There is no government enforced acceptance for who they are. This nation is full of racists. There are only barriers to the actions one can undertake regarding other people along racial lines.
Are you forced to be friendly with anyone? To allow anyone in your home?

Fuck Barry Goldwater.
 
I agree with Dannyblueyes. Ron Paul supporters think that libertarianism extents to denying people of their rights in order to support their rights.
What is ironic is that Goldwater was a Jew. Not dumping on Jews as a people, but many Jews have been some of the biggest exploiters of Black people, particularly in the United States and justified it as freedom.

Ron Paul has done an incredible job of remaking himself. Ron Paul was one of Bill Clinton’s biggest critics, especially when it came to the Lewinsky controversy. Goldwater was one of the old school republicans who thought that the Lewinsky affair was way over blown.
 
I do agree with Goldwater, and think that the government has no right to tell me who to do business with. You have no "right" to go into any diner any more than an owner has to make you dine in thier resteraunt. What is interesting is that he was actually active in integration, as he was a big supporter of the local NAACP chapter and woked to desegregate the national guard in his home state of Arizona (which was no small feat, as Arizona was last to recognize MLK's b'day as a holiday).

He was a true conservative.
 
I do agree with Goldwater, and think that the government has no right to tell me who to do business with. You have no "right" to go into any diner any more than an owner has to make you dine in thier resteraunt. What is interesting is that he was actually active in integration, as he was a big supporter of the local NAACP chapter and woked to desegregate the national guard in his home state of Arizona (which was no small feat, as Arizona was last to recognize MLK's b'day as a holiday).

He was a true conservative.

Of course Goldwater and Dole thought they had become liberals in today's Republican Party.

Which tells you something about the ridiculousness of the conservative ideology!
 
This is the area that breaks me away from the conservatives.

The government does have the ability to protect its citizens. I believe the Civil Rights Act protects minorities from discrimination. For example, when discrimination is allowed, you are basically allowing one group to treat another in a subhuman way.

Barry Goldwater have other issues that I agree with, but this isn't one.
 
This is the area that breaks me away from the conservatives.

The government does have the ability to protect its citizens. I believe the Civil Rights Act protects minorities from discrimination. For example, when discrimination is allowed, you are basically allowing one group to treat another in a subhuman way.

Barry Goldwater have other issues that I agree with, but this isn't one.
Barry Goldwater supported the Civil Rights Acts... just not the 1964 Act... I think that should be pointed out...
 
I do agree with Goldwater, and think that the government has no right to tell me who to do business with. You have no "right" to go into any diner any more than an owner has to make you dine in thier resteraunt. What is interesting is that he was actually active in integration, as he was a big supporter of the local NAACP chapter and woked to desegregate the national guard in his home state of Arizona (which was no small feat, as Arizona was last to recognize MLK's b'day as a holiday).

He was a true conservative.

The problem is that by allowing this kind of discrimination you can effectively legislate an entire ethnic group out of an area. What would happen, for instance, if a merchant group in a mostly white city such as Boise, Idaho or Salt Lake City, Utah decided to pass a regulation that required all of its members to stop serving black patrons? What if a private real estate board decided that none of its members could sell homes to black people in a particular neighborhood?

Of course theoretically black businesses and real estate agencies could pass the same rules against whites, but when you compare the number of businesses controlled by whites against those controlled by blacks you have a very lopsided playing field. For that matter, consider that white people make up more than half of the US population while black people make up less than a fifth.
 
The problem is that by allowing this kind of discrimination you can effectively legislate an entire ethnic group out of an area. What would happen, for instance, if a merchant group in a mostly white city such as Boise, Idaho or Salt Lake City, Utah decided to pass a regulation that required all of its members to stop serving black patrons? What if a private real estate board decided that none of its members could sell homes to black people in a particular neighborhood?

Of course theoretically black businesses and real estate agencies could pass the same rules against whites, but when you compare the number of businesses controlled by whites against those controlled by blacks you have a very lopsided playing field. For that matter, consider that white people make up more than half of the US population while black people make up less than a fifth.

What your proposing has already happened. They were called JIM CROW laws. Goldwater was against those types of laws, as were most whites. They thought it should be thier personal preference whom to (or not) serve. There were MANY businesses that openly did busioness with Black people. There should be choice. I do not fully agree personally with that belief, but I should not be the forcefull arbiter of other peoples belief systems.
 
What makes you say that ?

This makes me say that, my fact challenged friend!

source: azcentral

Conservative pioneer became an outcast

Michael Murphy
The Arizona Republic
May. 31, 1998 12:00 PM

In 1996, Barry Goldwater sat in his Paradise Valley home with Bob Dole and joked about his strange new standing as a GOP outsider.

''We're the new liberals of the Republican Party,'' Goldwater told Dole, who was then facing criticisms from hard-line conservatives in the presidential campaign.

''Can you imagine that?''<!-- BOXAD TABLE --> <TABLE id=boxAdTable border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=10 align=left><TBODY><TR><TD style="COLOR: gray" vAlign=top align=middle>

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It was difficult to picture, but by the time he reached his mid-80s, Barry Goldwater had become something of an outcast in the political movement that he pioneered.

Though he continued his support of a strong national defense, Goldwater aggravated so many conservatives on other issues that some in Arizona once suggested stripping his name from party headquarters.

He confounded them on many issues:

* Goldwater had won support of abortion opponents in his 1980 U.S. Senate re-election campaign, but in his final term, he voted consistently to uphold the 1973 Supreme Court ruling that legalized abortion. Later in life, he was honored by Planned Parenthood.

* In 1981, Goldwater assailed the founder of the Moral Majority, the Rev. Jerry Falwell. Responding to Falwell's statement that all good Christians should be concerned about the Supreme Court nomination of Arizonan Sandra Day O'Connor, he said, ''I think every good Christian ought to kick Falwell right in the ass.''

* In 1987, Goldwater, who had described then Gov. Evan Mecham as ''hardheaded,'' called on the Republican maverick to resign.

* In 1989, Goldwater said the Republican Party had been taken over by a ''bunch of kooks,'' a reference to forces supporting TV evangelist Pat Robertson and Mecham.

* In 1992, he endorsed Democrat Karan English for Congress over Republican Doug Wead.

* In June 1993, Goldwater declared that the military should lift its ban on gays in the military. He also railed against discrimination against gays and lesbians in the workplace.

Little more prickly

Many worried that Goldwater, the 1964 GOP presidential nominee, had lost his bearings.

A few even whispered that Goldwater had become a loose cannon, or that his second wife, Susan, had led him politically astray.

But to those who worked with him and who counted the retired senator as a political mentor, Goldwater never changed.

He just became a little more prickly and a lot more outspoken on an issue he loved: freedom.

''I absolutely do not think that he changed in the sense of becoming more liberal, as some of the critics have said,'' said Rep. John Shadegg, R-Ariz., whose father, Stephen, ran several of Goldwater's campaigns.

''I would challenge anybody who knew who Barry Goldwater was to establish anything that shows his basic philosophy ever really changed,'' Shadegg said.

Added Sam Steiger, who served with Goldwater in Congress, ''I think the image of Goldwater moving or the party leaving Goldwater . . . that's all crap. I've always believed that.''

That's because Goldwater always had a strong libertarian streak.

In a 1994 commentary published in The Arizona Republic, he spoke proudly of the GOP's traditional stance for ''individual rights and liberties.''

''The positive role of limited government has always been the defense of these fundamental principles,'' he said.

''The conservative movement is founded on the simple tenet that people have the right to live life as they please, as long as they don't hurt anyone else in the process.''

In the same article, Goldwater warned that ''the radical right has nearly ruined our party.''

''Its members do not care about the Constitution and they are the one making all the noise,'' he said.

Basic tenets unchanged

Looking back, that was an odd statement coming from Goldwater, who was cast in the 1964 presidential contest by his enemies as a dangerous leader of the radical right.

Yet Goldwater's basic tenets - keeping government out of people's lives - never really changed. Those who knew him said that the party changed with leaders such as Falwell, who argued that government should step in to police some of the most private aspects of people's lives.

''The issue for Barry was freedom, and I think his view was that it's wrong for liberals to use the government to advance their view of the world, and it was also Barry's view that it is wrong for the Pat Robertsons of the world to use government to advance their view of the world,'' Shadegg said.

Once he left office and the constraints that go with it, Shadegg said, Goldwater became even more libertarian and ''even more of an advocate for freedom.''

Shadegg explains Goldwater's endorsement of Democrat Karan English by noting that English's GOP opponent was ''a flagrant carpetbagger who appeared to have no right to claim that office and was a questionable character.''

''Barry wouldn't stomach it,'' Shadegg said.

''Barry deeply loved this state. He was as much Mr. Arizona as Mr. Conservative.''

Privilege of age

Goldwater also enjoyed a privilege of old age: Saying anything you want, even if it meant angering conservatives so much that some wanted to erase his name from the GOP headquarters in Phoenix.

''Barry Goldwater would be amused by such a thing,'' said Rep. Jim Kolbe, R-Ariz., noting that the senator was not one ''to be worried about names on a building.''

''It's typical of those people,'' Kolbe said. ''If you're not with them 100 percent, you're not with them. Therefore you're persona non grata. But that never kept Barry Goldwater from speaking his mind.''

Kolbe, who began his political career as a page for Goldwater in the U.S. Senate, said, ''Both the party and the whole world around him changed . . . but I'm not sure he changed all that much.''

Goldwater may have put it best in 1992, when he revealed his contempt for a new conservative movement focused on fellow Republican Jesse Helms of North Carolina.

''I don't like being called the New Right; I'm an old, old son-of-a-bitch. I'm a conservative,'' he said. <!--*End Print Friendly-->
 
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