Did Pacman really deserve fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article*Colin Alert*

[Zeferino]

Re: Did Pacman really deserve fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article*Colin Al

Let's not act like 5 pounds is an insignificant amount of weight. Cotto was weakened after having to cut 2 lbs and he's much younger and that's close to his natural fighting weight. In addition, DLH shouldn't use being drained as an excuse because he should have known better than to accept the catch in the first place. To admit that would mean admitting he was a fool. There are no excuses when you get in the ring but there are reasons why one guy wins and another loses.
As long as Pac had to fight an Oscar that was anything less than a full jr. middleweight, that fight was decided from the opening bell. The only advantage Oscar would have had would be his size and strength. Pac would have played into his weakness against faster fighters but it's pretty difficult to say he would have hurt DLH like he did at full strength.
Tim Bradley's a great fighter but he's still a virtual unknown. My point was (pretty clearly, I thought) a sarcastic response at the idea of a late 30 year old Oscar De La Hoya fighting at 140. The fact that he would say that shows the type of carny he is (which isn't a bad thing for a promoter, which he is) but for a grown up to believe him reflect badly on them.
And in your case in particular, you say Oscar doesn't hang his hat on being drained but you've described Shane Mosley as "old" and used that as a reason (excuse?) for why he was dominated by Floyd Mayweather in their recent fight, even though no one thought Shane was too old the day before the fight. Which is it?

Cotto was weakened based on what? How do you know Cotto was weakened? Just because he got his ass beat? Also, your point about Shane doesn't make sense. A lot of people thought Shane was too old. There were articles about this. I even wrote an article about Shane being shot and overrated wayyy before the fight with Mayweather was even signed or scheduled. Instead of concentrating on sarcasm over subjective things, just try and get the facts straight. You said Oscar hadn't lost in years when he fought Mayweather as if he had been on some kind of winning streak when in fact he had lost to Mosley, got stopped by Hopkins, lost to Felix Sturm, and was only able to knockout a hapless Ricardo Mayorga. You said Oscar weighed 13lbs less for Pac than he did for Mayweather when in reality it was only 9lbs. The other day you didn't know that junior middle and super welter were the same thing. How long have you been following boxing?

 

[Zeferino]

Re: Did Pacman really deserve fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article*Colin Al

Yeah Zef has a tendency to take over threads, especially ones about Colombian MMA fighters and DP's(still can't get over that shit!!).

Seriously though, I'm thinking of starting a gym like that in the United States but I'm just concerned about the legal aspect.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Re: Did Pacman really deserve fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article*Colin Al

Cotto was weakened based on what? How do you know Cotto was weakened? Just because he got his ass beat? Also, your point about Shane doesn't make sense. A lot of people thought Shane was too old. There were articles about this. I even wrote an article about Shane being shot and overrated wayyy before the fight with Mayweather was even signed or scheduled. Instead of concentrating on sarcasm over subjective things, just try and get the facts straight. You said Oscar hadn't lost in years when he fought Mayweather as if he had been on some kind of winning streak when in fact he had lost to Mosley, got stopped by Hopkins, lost to Felix Sturm, and was only able to knockout a hapless Ricardo Mayorga. You said Oscar weighed 13lbs less for Pac than he did for Mayweather when in reality it was only 9lbs. The other day you didn't know that junior middle and super welter were the same thing. How long have you been following boxing?

Okay, let's not even pretend that you are the person to question my boxing acumen.

Oscar hadn't lost in a couple years prior to the Mayweather fight and had only lost once as a jr. middle since becoming one.
While he should have, he didn't lose to Sturm.
Only you couldn't see I was making a point about the abundance of belts when I asked about jr. middle and super welter. I clearly knew they were the same thing, I was asking why it's necessary to have both. Now I'm disappointed in myself for even entertaining that because you are the only one that went sideways with it.
154 was Oscar's official weight but it's not uncommon for fighters to put on at least 10 lbs. It's far more likely that Oscar was closer to 160 than 154.
Even going by official weights, 9 lbs. is a tremendous amount of weight for a 35 yr old man to have lost.

Cotto's weakness was the goal as said publicly by Freddie Roach. He said he expected the 2 lbs to negatively affect Cotto's performance on top of thinking Miguel hadn't bounced back from the beating he received by Margarito.

Just because a person writes an article doesn't give them any credibility. In 2010, any fool with a keyboard can write an article that doesn't give them any weight. Most intelligent people thought Mayweather would win but we expected Shane to put up a better, far more competitive fight. He didn't go from winning the fight in the second to too old in the third. Shane Mosley was the number one welterweight in the world and unlike either May or Pac, became that by hammering the former number one welterweight.

 

[merce77]

Re: Did Pacman really deserve fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article*Colin Al

Seriously though, I'm thinking of starting a gym like that in the United States but I'm just concerned about the legal aspect.

You should be more concerned about the crazy aspect.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Re: Did Pacman really deserve fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article*Colin Al

You should be more concerned about the crazy aspect.

I wouldn't want porn stars to start thinking because they do dps, they can fight. Fucking Marie Luv going into boxing would be too much for me.

 

[Zeferino]

Re: Did Pacman really deserve fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article*Colin Al

I wouldn't want porn stars to start thinking because they do dps, they can fight. Fucking Marie Luv going into boxing would be too much for me.

Imagine an MMA match between Darlene and Pinky but with both of them having real skills and fighting naked. That would be so hot.

 

[Zeferino]

Re: Did Pacman really deserve fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article*Colin Al

Okay, let's not even pretend that you are the person to question my boxing acumen.

Oscar hadn't lost in a couple years prior to the Mayweather fight and had only lost once as a jr. middle since becoming one.
While he should have, he didn't lose to Sturm.
Only you couldn't see I was making a point about the abundance of belts when I asked about jr. middle and super welter. I clearly knew they were the same thing, I was asking why it's necessary to have both. Now I'm disappointed in myself for even entertaining that because you are the only one that went sideways with it.
154 was Oscar's official weight but it's not uncommon for fighters to put on at least 10 lbs. It's far more likely that Oscar was closer to 160 than 154.
Even going by official weights, 9 lbs. is a tremendous amount of weight for a 35 yr old man to have lost.

Cotto's weakness was the goal as said publicly by Freddie Roach. He said he expected the 2 lbs to negatively affect Cotto's performance on top of thinking Miguel hadn't bounced back from the beating he received by Margarito.

Just because a person writes an article doesn't give them any credibility. In 2010, any fool with a keyboard can write an article that doesn't give them any weight. Most intelligent people thought Mayweather would win but we expected Shane to put up a better, far more competitive fight. He didn't go from winning the fight in the second to too old in the third. Shane Mosley was the number one welterweight in the world and unlike either May or Pac, became that by hammering the former number one welterweight.

No one is talking about writing articles and credibility. Don't get sidetracked. The point was that you said no one said Mosley was old until after he lost to Mayweather. That was a false statement. Number one or not, many people including myself noted that Mosley was old, going downhill, and that it would have been good to see him fight again after Margarito to determine if he was really back or not.

I don't care what Freddie Roach said about 2lbs. The facts are not even Cotto said he was weakened by any weight situation against Pac. In FACT, Cotto recently said that he felt just as good at 154 against Foreman as he did when he fought Pacquiao.

Oscar lost arguably lost 3 of his last 4 fights leading up to his fight with Mayweather. That's a fact no matter how you decide to twist things. Oh, I see you're trying to sneakily say Oscar hadn't lost in a few years but that was simply because he wasn't active not because he was winning.

Now you're talking about how much Oscar "likely" weighed. In other words, you're talking about stuff that you really have no idea about. Just stick to the facts, its easier.

 

[merce77]

Re: Did Pacman really deserve fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article*Colin Al

Imagine an MMA match between Darlene and Pinky but with both of them having real skills and fighting naked. That would be so hot.

Only if I'm the purse.

 

[Spectrum]

Re: Did Pacman really deserve fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article*Colin Al

"What happens to a rabbit when it gets backed into a corner? It faints!"

 

[Spectrum]

Re: Did Pacman really deserve fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article*Colin Al

I just watch that video... Toney is always a good interview... what the fuck was up with that rabbit shit though..LOLOL!!!

 

[merce77]

Re: Did Pacman really deserve fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article*Colin Al

I just watch that video... Toney is always a good interview... what the fuck was up with that rabbit shit though..LOLOL!!!

That's the shit that had me dyinToney is always good for a quote. He's the dude that said about Michael Nunn in a prefight interview - "I'm gonna kill his bones" WTF?!?!

 

[TJervey]

Re: Did Pacman really deserve fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article*Colin Al

That's the shit that had me dyinToney is always good for a quote. He's the dude that said about Michael Nunn in a prefight interview - "I'm gonna kill his bones" WTF?!?!

That's when a Dude is mad as hell right there!!!

With all due respect to the opinions on this thread, and NOT taking into account advantages, dis-advantages and careful match making BOTH Mayweather AND Pacquaio have benefited from, if comparing the TOP wins of both fighters (not even counting knockouts vs decisions):

Mayweather - Emanuel Burton, Jose Luis Castillo(2), Zab Judah, Carlos Baldomir, Oscar De La Hoya, Ricky Hatton, Juan Manuel Marquez, Shane Mosley

Pacquiao - Lehlohonolo Ledwaba, Agapito Sanchez, Marco Antonio Barrera(2), Erik Morales(3), Juan Manuel Marquez(2), Oscar De La Hoya, Ricky Hatton, Miguel Cotto.

I would say the body of 'quality' wins for Pac were slightly better than Mayweathers. Also, I believe both of their wins over Oscar were a bit over rated because when Oscar fought Mayweather, he was actually coming off of a very inactive point in his career where he fought 2 times in 3 years and was 1-1 in those fights, with his win being over Mayorga. Oscar was clearly on the down turn at this point, and when he fought Pacquaio, while he was the bigger man, he was a shell of himself. In terms of common wins, Floyd's win over Marquez was clearly more dominant than Pacquiao's but Manny's win over Hatton was clearly more dominant than Floyd's. If the argument is that Hatton was a bit used up by the time Manny got to him, the same can be argument can be made for Marquez, who'd been in wars with Manny and Diaz as well as I believe Barrera by the time Floyd got to him.

Also, I see Manny as having beat 4 probably HOF'ers while Floyd has beaten 3. Overall, I give the Manny the fighter of the decade edge, by a slight margin.

 

[Bxlegend]

Re: Did Pacman really deserve fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article*Colin Al

That's when a Dude is mad as hell right there!!!

With all due respect to the opinions on this thread, and NOT taking into account advantages, dis-advantages and careful match making BOTH Mayweather AND Pacquaio have benefited from, if comparing the TOP wins of both fighters (not even counting knockouts vs decisions):

Mayweather - Emanuel Burton, Jose Luis Castillo(2), Zab Judah, Carlos Baldomir, Oscar De La Hoya, Ricky Hatton, Juan Manuel Marquez, Shane Mosley

Pacquiao - Lehlohonolo Ledwaba, Agapito Sanchez, Marco Antonio Barrera(2), Erik Morales(3), Juan Manuel Marquez(2), Oscar De La Hoya, Ricky Hatton, Miguel Cotto.

I would say the body of 'quality' wins for Pac were slightly better than Mayweathers. Also, I believe both of their wins over Oscar were a bit over rated because when Oscar fought Mayweather, he was actually coming off of a very inactive point in his career where he fought 2 times in 3 years and was 1-1 in those fights, with his win being over Mayorga. Oscar was clearly on the down turn at this point, and when he fought Pacquaio, while he was the bigger man, he was a shell of himself. In terms of common wins, Floyd's win over Marquez was clearly more dominant than Pacquiao's but Manny's win over Hatton was clearly more dominant than Floyd's. If the argument is that Hatton was a bit used up by the time Manny got to him, the same can be argument can be made for Marquez, who'd been in wars with Manny and Diaz as well as I believe Barrera by the time Floyd got to him.

Also, I see Manny as having beat 4 probably HOF'ers while Floyd has beaten 3. Overall, I give the Manny the fighter of the decade edge, by a slight margin.

Well said, though Manny's wins against Barrera and Morales were'nt much different than the ones against DLH, Hatten, or Cotto. Neither one of them were close to their prime. I can't lie though, I've been a Barrera hater ever since he was exposed by Junior Jones.

 

[TJervey]

Re: Did Pacman really deserve fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article*Colin Al

Well said, though Manny's wins against Barrera and Morales were'nt much different than the ones against DLH, Hatten, or Cotto. Neither one of them were close to their prime. I can't lie though, I've been a Barrera hater ever since he was exposed by Junior Jones.

I wouldn't say exposed, as much as styles affect fighters differently. As in Pac/Marquez/Mayweather. Marquez, I believe unless he is really on the downturn will ALWAYS give Pac fits, but was and will always be dominated by Floyd. Castillo, who in his prime gave Floyd probably his toughest fight, but against a fighter Floyd dominated, Corrales, had wars. Floyd, while he did eventually knock Hatton out, had a tougher time with him than Pac, Mosley, lost twice to Forrest who lost twice to Mayorga who Mosley knocked out...it goes on and on. Barrera was nice when he was in his prime, and I don't believe either him or Morales were THAT much past their shelf life...I do believe Pac helped them both along in that regard though.

 

[cranrab]

fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article

philipino writer picks philipino fighter.

unbiased?

 

[merce77]

Re: fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article

philipino writer picks philipino fighter.

unbiased?

Nicca ain't no difference when Floyd can't do shit wrong on this board, gtfoh. Niccas never call Floyd on his bullshit, always making excuses for him, giving him passes and shit. And that has nothing to do with the fact he's black? Again gtfoh. Homie broke down all the facts, not speculations, the facts don't lie, Pac cleaned out the best fighters in his divisions while Floyd ducked and dodged most of them, point blank. It ain't Pacs fault that most of the niccas in his divisions were past their primes when he fought them, they were still the bst cats in the division at the time. What did Floyd do at 147 when he had Cotto, Margarito, Mosley and a few other cats to fight, he retired. At least Manny left no speculation, Floyd's career is full of speculations.

 

[cranrab]

Re: fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article

Nicca ain't no difference when Floyd can't do shit wrong on this board, gtfoh. Niccas never call Floyd on his bullshit, always making excuses for him, giving him passes and shit. And that has nothing to do with the fact he's black? Again gtfoh.

so bullshit on 1 hand, and not bullshit on the other.

not bullshit in both instances?

 

[Bxlegend]

Re: Did Pacman really deserve fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article*Colin Al

I wouldn't say exposed, as much as styles affect fighters differently. As in Pac/Marquez/Mayweather. Marquez, I believe unless he is really on the downturn will ALWAYS give Pac fits, but was and will always be dominated by Floyd. Castillo, who in his prime gave Floyd probably his toughest fight, but against a fighter Floyd dominated, Corrales, had wars. Floyd, while he did eventually knock Hatton out, had a tougher time with him than Pac, Mosley, lost twice to Forrest who lost twice to Mayorga who Mosley knocked out...it goes on and on. Barrera was nice when he was in his prime, and I don't believe either him or Morales were THAT much past their shelf life...I do believe Pac helped them both along in that regard though.

I'm sorry but I'm gonna have to get out the scalpel for this one!
Styles do make fights, but that rule barely applies to any of the fights you mentioned. Castillo, who did give a young PBF all he could handle in the first fight(in my my opinion more then he could handle), was dominated in the second fight while Floyd beat Castillo at his own game. Him and Diego(R.I.P.) had a war, but neither of them were in their prime and Castillo destroyed him in the rematch(weight difference or not). Floyd's "tougher" time against Hatten was simply Floyd fighting his fight(waiting for an opportunity and capitalizing, closing the show with zero risk), while Manny did what you should do against an overrated boxer who baloons 50 lbs between fights from alcohol consumtion(and recently lost his "0" badly). The rule does apply though in the case of Mosley, Forrest(R.I.P.), and Mayorga to an extent. Vernon always had Mosleys # since the amateurs, and Mayorga just couldn't be hurt by Vernon who let his ego get in the way the first fight and was fighting like he was in the olimpics the second one. Mosleys and Mayorgas fight was pointless because the were both different fighter by that time of their careers. Like I said, I'm a little biased in regards to Barrera, but he not only was he battle worn(in both fights), he was overrated. That Mckinney fight was a classic, but the Hamed fight was a joke, and the only other top teir fighter he fought in their prime was Morales, who gave hime all he could handle and a loss. As for Morales, if he wasn't a shot fighter before his first bout against Manny(which he beat Manny and even played him by going southpaw in the 12th), he was shot after(had people thinking Zahir Raheem was the truth). Morales was 29 going on 50 when he fought Manny. I do agree with your last sentence though.

 

[Bxlegend]

Re: fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article

Nicca ain't no difference when Floyd can't do shit wrong on this board, gtfoh. Niccas never call Floyd on his bullshit, always making excuses for him, giving him passes and shit. And that has nothing to do with the fact he's black? Again gtfoh. Homie broke down all the facts, not speculations, the facts don't lie, Pac cleaned out the best fighters in his divisions while Floyd ducked and dodged most of them, point blank. It ain't Pacs fault that most of the niccas in his divisions were past their primes when he fought them, they were still the bst cats in the division at the time. What did Floyd do at 147 when he had Cotto, Margarito, Mosley and a few other cats to fight, he retired. At least Manny left no speculation, Floyd's career is full of speculations.

Real talk. Pac wasn't duckin' and dodging anyone early in his career. And there's a ton of boxing prejudice with all races. Whether or not he's the better fighter(which I think he's not), he deserved the nod more than Floyd. A klansman could've wrote it and he still would've been right.

 

[TJervey]

Re: Did Pacman really deserve fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article*Colin Al

Merce you got to cut me a break with your sig Fam!!! I'm on here trying to have serious boxing discussions in this thread and every time I read that shit it fucks me up!!! Classic!!!

 

[merce77]

Re: fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article

Real talk. Pac wasn't duckin' and dodging anyone early in his career. And there's a ton of boxing prejudice with all races. Whether or not he's the better fighter(which I think he's not), he deserved the nod more than Floyd. A klansman could've wrote it and he still would've been right.

A klansmen would've given that shit to Joe "Slaphappy" Calzaghe. On the real, I try to keep race out of shit when it comes to boxing, but even I do tend to favor Puerto Rican and African American fighters. Pac may not be the better fighter (I don't think he is) but he's physically gifted on an equal level as Mayweather, though their gifts are not the same. Anyway, being unbiased means presenting facts, not opinions, and that's what homie did in the article.

 

[merce77]

Re: Did Pacman really deserve fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article*Colin Al

Merce you got to cut me a break with your sig Fam!!! I'm on here trying to have serious boxing discussions in this thread and every time I read that shit it fucks me up!!! Classic!!!

I told ya'll I was gonna do it. That comment should be the first thing new ninjas see when they log on to BGOL for the first time, just so they know what awaits them in here. matter of fact, I think I might use that whole sequence, pure comedy.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Re: fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article

philipino writer picks philipino fighter.

unbiased?

I hadn't noticed nor cared that the writer was filipino. But I don't believe there is a such thing as an "unbiased" opinion on such a subjective topic. Even when someone (the writer, myself, whomever)presents "the facts" they still interpret the facts through the lens of their own biases.
He picked Manny, I picked Floyd. If Bernard hadn't lost both of those fights with Jermain Taylor, I'd have picked him over both.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Re: Did Pacman really deserve fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article*Colin Al

I told ya'll I was gonna do it. That comment should be the first thing new ninjas see when they log on to BGOL for the first time, just so they know what awaits them in here. matter of fact, I think I might use that whole sequence, pure comedy.

They need the warning to prevent any more occurences of recklessness.

 

[TJervey]

Re: fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article

A klansmen would've given that shit to Joe "Slaphappy" Calzaghe. On the real, I try to keep race out of shit when it comes to boxing, but even I do tend to favor Puerto Rican and African American fighters. Pac may not be the better fighter (I don't think he is) but he's physically gifted on an equal level as Mayweather, though their gifts are not the same. Anyway, being unbiased means presenting facts, not opinions, and that's what homie did in the article.

It's hard not to favor the race closest to yours, not in a racists way, but a support way. That being said, I enjoyed the article though, didn't sway my opinion either way though...I based my thoughts on what I perceived as the facts.

 

[TJervey]

Re: fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article

A klansmen would've given that shit to Joe "Slaphappy" Calzaghe. On the real, I try to keep race out of shit when it comes to boxing, but even I do tend to favor Puerto Rican and African American fighters. Pac may not be the better fighter (I don't think he is) but he's physically gifted on an equal level as Mayweather, though their gifts are not the same. Anyway, being unbiased means presenting facts, not opinions, and that's what homie did in the article.

I feel you about Calzaghe, but if he slapped that much, he sure as hell Slapped the shit outta Roy Jones!!!!

 

[Bxlegend]

Re: fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article

I hadn't noticed nor cared that the writer was filipino. But I don't believe there is a such thing as an "unbiased" opinion on such a subjective topic. Even when someone (the writer, myself, whomever)presents "the facts" they still interpret the facts through the lens of their own biases.
He picked Manny, I picked Floyd. If Bernard hadn't lost both of those fights with Jermain Taylor, I'd have picked him over both.

and a better performance against Calzaghe, plus no rematch w/ Jones

 

[TJervey]

Re: fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article

I hadn't noticed nor cared that the writer was filipino. But I don't believe there is a such thing as an "unbiased" opinion on such a subjective topic. Even when someone (the writer, myself, whomever)presents "the facts" they still interpret the facts through the lens of their own biases.
He picked Manny, I picked Floyd. If Bernard hadn't lost both of those fights with Jermain Taylor, I'd have picked him over both.

BHop is an intriguing choice, but he didn't fight regularly enough for me during the decade, especially the second half of it...

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Re: fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article

BHop is an intriguing choice, but he didn't fight regularly enough for me during the decade, especially the second half of it...

He beats Taylor, he might have either retired or fought a somewhat more game Jones and retired.

When you split the decade into halves, I go back to Mayweather. First half-Mayweather, then Hopkins, second half-Pacquiao, then Mayweather so Mayweather wins. But that's my math, everybody's got their own.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

Re: Did Pacman really deserve fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article*Colin Al

I can't wait until people find something different to argue about.

 

[merce77]

Re: fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article

I feel you about Calzaghe, but if he slapped that much, he sure as hell Slapped the shit outta Roy Jones!!!!

But he did get put down early against Roy, makes me wonder what a young Roy would've done to that dude.

 

[merce77]

Re: Did Pacman really deserve fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article*Colin Al

I can't wait until people find something different to argue about.

 

[merce77]

Re: Did Pacman really deserve fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article*Colin Al

They need the warning to prevent any more occurences of recklessness.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Re: Did Pacman really deserve fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article*Colin Al

But he did get put down early against Roy, makes me wonder what a young Roy would've done to that dude.

A young Roy would have punished him. Calzaghe's lack of punching power would have enboldened Roy to take more risks early, pile on a big lead and then ease back as the fight progressed, only taking the ko if it was clearly there.

What the fuck??? Are you a member of the Wild Kingdom fan club? You and the animals!

 

[merce77]

Re: Did Pacman really deserve fighter of the decade? - good unbiased article*Colin Al

A young Roy would have punished him. Calzaghe's lack of punching power would have enboldened Roy to take more risks early, pile on a big lead and then ease back as the fight progressed, only taking the ko if it was clearly there.




What the fuck??? Are you a member of the Wild Kingdom fan club? You and the animals!