Dawn of the planet of the apes review....

[exiledking]

Caesar wasn't too stupid to see it, he didn't want it to happen. He had them looking out for humans in the forest for 10 years for a reason... they were guarding those areas for a reason.. cause he knew they'd find their way there one day. Koba was just blinded by what happened to him and he was willing to kill Caesar to make it happen.



Again, Caesar was giving this dude a chance on the strength of Franco and his family. He wasn't naive to the possibility he just didn't want to go to war if it was possible to avoid it. War would have come either way but it doesn't excuse what Koba did.



CDG did everything he could think of to not start a war, I'm not mad at him for trying to not start a war with humans on the strength of he doesn't want any of his kind fighting.




It makes a difference because people are acting like they been there for 10 years and now they want to explore.. no..they just got their shit together

all the hints they were dropping..people losing kids..people not sure if they could catch it from the apes.. etc etc they were just starting to rebuild so it wouldn't be farfetched for it to take 10 years to get to this point.. especially considering how fragile all this shit is.. a few of the right people die and the rest of us are shit out of luck and don't know how to do shit..

yeah the apes guarded their area, but the fuckers never actually went out to find out if there were any humans even 10 miles away... are they intelligent or what?
Ceasar was wishful thinking like a motherfucker and denying the obvious.

When you're a leader of a colony and responsible for the survival of a species, thats stupid.


And again, if you're holding out hope based on 2 or 3 nice people when the overwhelming MAJORITY of that species has been nothing but assholes to your kind, even YOU, thats retarded, especially when the very first action that happens once you meet them again ends in the death of one yours- using a device you would never use, thats genocide of your own people.

No one wants war- well, not true, because ALL the moves that say you want war were displayed by the humans. I get it that Ceasar didn't want war, but it's coming and the only decision you get to make is when this will happen and how much damage will be incurred.

I'll buy your whole, "they just got it together" idea, even though that can be debated, but even on the low end of ONE YEAR, they had time to figure out options on where they were gonna get power. Once they found out it was in Ape territory, and they knew the Apes were intelligent, the TRUE leader, Dreyfus had no interest in negotiating with the apes and offering them a cut in the resources, he went to the arsenal. Ceasar's dumb ass, thought he was dealing with a leader, even though that guy had no pull even with the 4 people he was traveling with, much less the colony.

If he was interested in building a relationship that didn't end in violence, he could've and should've arranged meetings, instead of drawing the line in the sand that would end in war if crossed. He knows humans and the diversity of ideals they have- go and MEET with the ones who would be allies, and build a relationship. OR find out that theres no hope for peace, like Koba did, and act accordingly.

he buried his head in the sand and hoped for the best. Not cool.

LOL I met really like this movie.

 

[APOPHIS]

Wow! Great discussion regarding the personality differences and leadership qualities between Koba and Caesar.

Both sides make legit points.

 

[stretchwallz]

It's been very telling discussing this film lately; brothas have been programmed to believe militancy is negative? (when we fund the most militant government on earth) You can't protect or secure anything without militancy. Maybe the goal of this film is to promote the passive compromising character of Ceasar as preferable

The 1963 french novel Planet of the apes (Pierre Boulle) was written to explore what would it be like if whites were inferior instead of the opposite. Gorillas were aggressive soldiers, Orangutan's picky conservatives, & Chimps intellectual liberals. Rise and Dawn flesh out the backstory told in the book (Apes were slaves to humans and they rebelled and won). Symbolically the apes are created to represent blacks.

Koba was what Stalin called himself as a youth soldier based on the heroic vengeful literary character of the novel the Patricide

Ceasar's mom Bright Eyes had superior intellect from genetic advancements by the serum, then her grandson was named Blue eyes? Clever propaganda toward CAC superior intelligence they fed us

Koba was NOT like most BGOL members.

Koba took the hints, but he also went and did RESEACRH about the humans.

He stayed loyal to Ceasar as long as he could, but he knew Ceasar was a bitch, and extremely naive, and his naivety was gonna ruin it for the community.

clue #1 Although the apes weren't sure Humans were completely gone, even right around the corner from them, they never went looking for them. They met up with them when the hum as came to THEIR region, and the fucking CAC shot one of em.

#2 Ceasars stupid ass wasn't even talking to the leader of the CACs. He was talking to "the kind one" who couldn't even keep control of the small group he was with. Koba told him to go and show force. When they came down and said "DON'T COME BACK", here comes silly WHite boy, talking about "We need the damn in YOUR region to give us power. Ceasars reply shoulda been, "I told you not come back. Theres plenty of Dams in america, and you've had 10 years to fucking find one anywhere on this continent. Your poor planning doesn't have anything to do with me. GET THE FUCK OUT.

#3 it's more than obvious that once the humans got resources, they would do more with it. How do we know this? They JUST DID IT 10 YEARS AGO. The ones affected by it, including Koba, are still alive to tell about it.

#4, so they allow the humans to get the Dam clear, but they don't tell Ceasar SHIT about using explosives to of it. Bomb goes off IN THEIR REGION , and could've injured some of them. Also, who's to say that them having that dam wouldn't fuck up the fishing in their area? Hell no.

#5 White boy again shows he aint got control of shit, when the gun is revealed and could've killed their baby. Ceasar had already shown white big demonstration of good faith TWICE. Once when he brought the bag back to their colony, no questions asked, another by beating the shit out of Koba in the Cac's face, to show that he runs his shit. Does the WHite boy do the same to his stupid live wire worker? Fuck no, he just sends him off on his own, as if he's trustworthy enough. wait no, THREE TIMES by smashing every gun he sees instead of using it on them.

#6 So Koba who thinks they shouldn't be trusted, goes down to the colony and guess what he sees? MAD GUNS. Now he knows FOR SURE that Ceasar is too fucking Naive. Ceasar seems to only give a shit about them cuz (a) he was raised by ONE NICE ONE, despite what they other ones have done, and (b) awww the cool little White girl cured HIS mother. I'm sorry, if you've been anti tech your whole life, you accept that members of your crew die. If not, you can use your intelligence to make your own medicine. But Ceasa, who's supposed to be the leader, is so concerned with his immediate fam, he loses all concern for the whole tribe.

#7 Ceasars son is a straight bitch. And the other one. A white boy JUST swung and smacked someone from your crew in the head with a fucking pole, and you don't think it's appropriate to kill him? Yeah, your sass deserved to get dropped off a balcony.


#8 Did the humans ever even discuss sharing the resources from the dam with the Apes, even though the resource came from their land? FUCK NO.

#9 Even when Ceasar wasn't there, the white boy makes a move to get the gun from the REAL CAC LEADER but he doesn't have the balls to shoot the fuckers. SO much for the TRUST he just talked about. Sure, he might be nice, but he can't be trusted to do whats necessary to prevent C4 from blowing up their whole shit.
Fuck those humans, they suck, even the nice ones

Koba was WELL within his rights to fuck them up

Exiled King Applause....


We saw the same film! tribes, cultures, races are all in a constant conflict over limited resources on Earth.

Based on the collective experience of the Apes, Ceasar was making a foolish emotional choice to trust humans (because he was raised by one decent CAC) that sold his ass to slavery too. Striking parallels to George Washington Carver and Barrack Obama who are celebrated, but raised by white men.

In 2001 Obama was destroyed by former "militant" Bobby Rush for Illinois' 1st congressional district(South Side Chicago) Rush said Obama went to Harvard to "become an educated fool" that's Ceasar his perspective is flawed, he knows about the Ape subjugation, pain, hatred but he didn't experience it, so he's an ineffective leader of a tribe of survivors.

all that being said, if koba doesnt encite a war nothing happens!!!; the white guy that was working with apes got the power on; that was their mission and they accomplish that...so all of what you said is mute..now if you want to argue that they wouldnt have never let the apes alone after the power, then thats a different argument..

Really good movie thought, right next to capt america as the best movie of the summer..

What culture of European descendants has EVER been content with one resource? They had all those weapons and wouldn't use them on Apes after they stopped partying? The fear and paranoia alone would have been the catalyst for Ape genocide. You think a CAC with an army was going to allow an ape on a horse with a spear tell him what the fuck to do? I need a hand check or you have to recognize history is a record of human patterns and behavior...the pattern of coexistence and benevolence is not present.

Koba's revolt was necessary for the overall survival of the Apes...losing 60 in a fire is a better than everyone dying due to an army of armed humans. Since we know the end of this story Koba is the hero, the Apes evolve and enslave humans...without Koba they would have all died

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

yeah the apes guarded their area, but the fuckers never actually went out to find out if there were any humans even 10 miles away... are they intelligent or what?
Ceasar was wishful thinking like a motherfucker and denying the obvious.

When you're a leader of a colony and responsible for the survival of a species, thats stupid.

Remember he is an ape..an intelligent ape.. he is not a human. You're putting what humans would do, or what he should have known about humans into how he ran his ship. In his mind the forest was theirs and they were going to protect it at all costs.. he had no need to go out there and find this or search for that or go find humans, he wanted nothing to do with them. It was separation. That was their entire world man. No desire to conquer or explore, this was it. Family, future...

And again, if you're holding out hope based on 2 or 3 nice people when the overwhelming MAJORITY of that species has been nothing but assholes to your kind, even YOU, thats retarded, especially when the very first action that happens once you meet them again ends in the death of one yours- using a device you would never use, thats genocide of your own people.

That's why he went to show strength at the colony. To say look we see you, we will set it off if you come back and fuck with us. He didn't just let the dude get shot and then say nah yall we ain't gone do shit.. they rolled in there a few thousand deep and showed force and sent a direct message so let's not act like he was just laying up like nah let's just chill guys.

No one wants war- well, not true, because ALL the moves that say you want war were displayed by the humans. I get it that Ceasar didn't want war, but it's coming and the only decision you get to make is when this will happen and how much damage will be incurred.

He said it in the beginning and at the very end.. he thought they had a chance at peace. He never even met oldman..all he met was the main dude and his family..who is similar to how franco was to him. So he gave it a chance with a dude who was like his good man franco. the whole idea was because of who it was he was dealing with on a personal level. he trusted the guy and he wasn't wrong to trust him as we found out as the movie went along.

Alvarez is just an ass i think Cesar recognized that TOO.

I'll buy your whole, "they just got it together" idea, even though that can be debated, but even on the low end of ONE YEAR, they had time to figure out options on where they were gonna get power. Once they found out it was in Ape territory, and they knew the Apes were intelligent, the TRUE leader, Dreyfus had no interest in negotiating with the apes and offering them a cut in the resources, he went to the arsenal. Ceasar's dumb ass, thought he was dealing with a leader, even though that guy had no pull even with the 4 people he was traveling with, much less the colony.

At what point did Dreyfus ever interact with any of the apes? How would they know who the true leader was? The guy came out to greet them when they came on the horses remember? Not dreyfus.. just as Cesar stepped up to deliver the message and the guy came to receive it.. they had no way to know that dude was not the leader. Again, they just started picking up the pieces, it couldn't have been too long. All they had were weapons..not even setup and ready to fight.. a few places here and there and their entire mission really was to fix the radio so they could see if any others were out there. I'm sure that was a quick turnaround. on top of figuring out who among them could even fix the dam to provide power for the city.. that itself was probably a huge chore.

If he was interested in building a relationship that didn't end in violence, he could've and should've arranged meetings, instead of drawing the line in the sand that would end in war if crossed. He knows humans and the diversity of ideals they have- go and MEET with the ones who would be allies, and build a relationship. OR find out that theres no hope for peace, like Koba did, and act accordingly.

How does Cesar know all of this? He knows that there are good ones and bad ones. Koba only knows that there are bad ones that is the basic emotion they carry with themselves.
Cesar is waiting to see who you are.. good OK bad we kill you. Even in the beginning he wasn't sweet on them just tolerant.

Koba believes all humans are bad and he has every right to feel that way.

And he was meeting with the ones who could be allies.. they are the ones that helped him when he got shot and operated on him and nursed him back to help.. how he would be able to meet with OTHERS like that in the situations presented i don't know. He had no interest in exploring and taking over their area.. just protecting his.
Koba just wanted to kill. Koba didn't even really want to take over the tower and all that shit.. he just wanted to kill all humans and that's OK too i understand his viewpoint.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

It's been very telling discussing this film lately; brothas have been programmed to believe militancy is negative? (when we fund the most militant government on earth) You can't protect or secure anything without militancy. Maybe the goal of this film is to promote the passive compromising character of Ceasar as preferable

The 1963 french novel Planet of the apes (Pierre Boulle) was written to explore what would it be like if whites were inferior instead of the opposite. Gorillas were aggressive soldiers, Orangutan's picky conservatives, & Chimps intellectual liberals. Rise and Dawn flesh out the backstory told in the book (Apes were slaves to humans and they rebelled and won). Symbolically the apes are created to represent blacks.

Koba was what Stalin called himself as a youth soldier based on the heroic vengeful literary character of the novel the Patricide

Ceasar's mom Bright Eyes had superior intellect from genetic advancements by the serum, then her grandson was named Blue eyes? Clever propaganda toward CAC superior intelligence they fed us



Exiled King Applause....


We saw the same film! tribes, cultures, races are all in a constant conflict over limited resources on Earth.

Based on the collective experience of the Apes, Ceasar was making a foolish emotional choice to trust humans (because he was raised by one decent CAC) that sold his ass to slavery too. Striking parallels to George Washington Carver and Barrack Obama who are celebrated, but raised by white men.

In 2001 Obama was destroyed by former "militant" Bobby Rush for Illinois' 1st congressional district(South Side Chicago) Rush said Obama went to Harvard to "become an educated fool" that's Ceasar his perspective is flawed, he knows about the Ape subjugation, pain, hatred but he didn't experience it, so he's an ineffective leader of a tribe of survivors.



What culture of European descendants has EVER been content with one resource? They had all those weapons and wouldn't use them on Apes after they stopped partying? The fear and paranoia alone would have been the catalyst for Ape genocide. You think a CAC with an army was going to allow an ape on a horse with a spear tell him what the fuck to do? I need a hand check or you have to recognize history is a record of human patterns and behavior...the pattern of coexistence and benevolence is not present.

Koba's revolt was necessary for the overall survival of the Apes...losing 60 in a fire is a better than everyone dying due to an army of armed humans. Since we know the end of this story Koba is the hero, the Apes evolve and enslave humans...without Koba they would have all died

Above everything else Cesar wanted what was best for the apes. He wanted them to have a future and he wanted them to all live. Ape dont kill Ape. His kind his people above everything else. That can't be lost in what he did. We or you or others might not agree with HOW he handled everything but he was not handling it that way out of sympathy for humans. he was not handling it that way to get in good with humans. Every breath he took was based on trying to avoid the worse case scenario which is an all out war with the humans.


You can disagree with how he did it or what he did to try to prevent all out war but you can't play his intentions. he wasn't a tom and he wasn't trying to assimilate he didn't want them in his land.. he just wanted to prevent them being wiped out cause of some fuck shit.

 

[Tdot_firestarta]

Ive never had any interest in these movies but ive been hearing so many good reviews im gonna have to check this out..gonna take some time to watch "rise of the planet of the apes" this week to get the backstory

 

[exiledking]

Above everything else Cesar wanted what was best for the apes. He wanted them to have a future and he wanted them to all live. Ape dont kill Ape. His kind his people above everything else. That can't be lost in what he did. We or you or others might not agree with HOW he handled everything but he was not handling it that way out of sympathy for humans. he was not handling it that way to get in good with humans. Every breath he took was based on trying to avoid the worse case scenario which is an all out war with the humans.





You can disagree with how he did it or what he did to try to prevent all out war but you can't play his intentions. he wasn't a tom and he wasn't trying to assimilate he didn't want them in his land.. he just wanted to prevent them being wiped out cause of some fuck shit.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

 

[exiledking]

Remember he is an ape..an intelligent ape.. he is not a human. You're putting what humans would do, or what he should have known about humans into how he ran his ship. In his mind the forest was theirs and they were going to protect it at all costs.. he had no need to go out there and find this or search for that or go find humans, he wanted nothing to do with them. It was separation. That was their entire world man. No desire to conquer or explore, this was it. Family, future...







That's why he went to show strength at the colony. To say look we see you, we will set it off if you come back and fuck with us. He didn't just let the dude get shot and then say nah yall we ain't gone do shit.. they rolled in there a few thousand deep and showed force and sent a direct message so let's not act like he was just laying up like nah let's just chill guys.







He said it in the beginning and at the very end.. he thought they had a chance at peace. He never even met oldman..all he met was the main dude and his family..who is similar to how franco was to him. So he gave it a chance with a dude who was like his good man franco. the whole idea was because of who it was he was dealing with on a personal level. he trusted the guy and he wasn't wrong to trust him as we found out as the movie went along.



Alvarez is just an ass i think Cesar recognized that TOO.













At what point did Dreyfus ever interact with any of the apes? How would they know who the true leader was? The guy came out to greet them when they came on the horses remember? Not dreyfus.. just as Cesar stepped up to deliver the message and the guy came to receive it.. they had no way to know that dude was not the leader. Again, they just started picking up the pieces, it couldn't have been too long. All they had were weapons..not even setup and ready to fight.. a few places here and there and their entire mission really was to fix the radio so they could see if any others were out there. I'm sure that was a quick turnaround. on top of figuring out who among them could even fix the dam to provide power for the city.. that itself was probably a huge chore.









How does Cesar know all of this? He knows that there are good ones and bad ones. Koba only knows that there are bad ones that is the basic emotion they carry with themselves.

Cesar is waiting to see who you are.. good OK bad we kill you. Even in the beginning he wasn't sweet on them just tolerant.



Koba believes all humans are bad and he has every right to feel that way.



And he was meeting with the ones who could be allies.. they are the ones that helped him when he got shot and operated on him and nursed him back to help.. how he would be able to meet with OTHERS like that in the situations presented i don't know. He had no interest in exploring and taking over their area.. just protecting his.

Koba just wanted to kill. Koba didn't even really want to take over the tower and all that shit.. he just wanted to kill all humans and that's OK too i understand his viewpoint.

How does ceasar NOT know?


If you're saying ceasar doesn't have the foresight to see what would be best overall for the greater good, then I agree.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Intentions count for something.

Koba shot Cesar..his trusted friend and set fire to the homes that they lived in so he could start the war. How is he any better than the humans we been demonizing? They're the same.

And like i said, i understand WHY he hates them. He wasn't doing it for the people he was doing it for himself. his hatred.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

How does ceasar NOT know?


If you're saying ceasar doesn't have the foresight to see what would be best overall for the greater good, then I agree.

I'm not saying that.


We can even go to the end of the movie... Cesar didn't say.. shit I'm glad this part is over let's go chill y'all.. he told dude straight up it's war the humans won't stop you better get your ass out of here, we're about to prep up to fight.

he didn't say go try and talk to the humans and see if we can work out a truce.. he knew that wasn't a possibility.

He wasn't naive he wasn't trying to befriend the humans he just didn't want to go to war. Once war started no matter HOW it started he knew it was time to fight it till the end. That's the point. he did have the foresight to see what would happen if they just automatically went to war with the humans.. he didn't want that. Koba wasn't looking out for the future of the apes he was looking out for his own hatred trying to get retribution..and i understand that on his end cause of what he went through.

we can try to twist it like Koba was looking out for the apes but he wasn't.

 

[exiledking]

Intentions count for something.



Koba shot Cesar..his trusted friend and set fire to the homes that they lived in so he could start the war. How is he any better than the humans we been demonizing? They're the same.



And like i said, i understand WHY he hates them. He wasn't doing it for the people he was doing it for himself. his hatred.

He did that to let the war that ceasar was denying happen during the time in which they had a shot.

If you recall the last movie, ceasar made em all smart and released em. Then they broke out and the military came at there asses.

ves.

He had to tell his human guardian, "you better get the fuck outta here, cuz you may be nice but you belong to a race of savages"

The it reason they didn't get decimated is because the dumb humans killed themsel

Now he runs into them again, they shoot one of his citizens and he wants to pretend it's possible to have peace. Kobas take on it matters, but ceasar ignores him and all the clues", then beats him up

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

He did that to let the war that ceasar was denying happen during the time in which they had a shot.

If you recall the last movie, ceasar made em all smart and released em. Then they broke out and the military came at there asses.

ves.

He had to tell his human guardian, "you better get the fuck outta here, cuz you may be nice but you belong to a race of savages"

The it reason they didn't get decimated is because the dumb humans killed themsel

Now he runs into them again, they shoot one of his citizens and he wants to pretend it's possible to have peace. Kobas take on it matters, but ceasar ignores him and all the clues", then beats him up

He beat him up because he had to. Koba challenged his authority so he did what he had to do. He rose up on him a couple times before he beat him up. Koba just wanted what Koba wanted and clearly if Cesar wasn't willing he would kill Cesar to get what HE wanted

Koba wanted revenge and to eradicate period.

Cesar just cared about Apes and their survival.

Cesar has to lead them out of some manufactured shit that Koba started for his own reasons.

We can sit here knowing what happens and say war was coming etc.. but them in the moment didn't know war was coming.

For instance, let's say Cesar killed all the humans right there when they shot ash i highly doubt Koba would've ventured out to look for more humans.. he would've been fine with their deaths right there.

 

[exiledking]

Intentions count for something.



Koba shot Cesar..his trusted friend and set fire to the homes that they lived in so he could start the war. How is he any better than the humans we been demonizing? They're the same.



And like i said, i understand WHY he hates them. He wasn't doing it for the people he was doing it for himself. his hatred.

He did that to let the war that ceasar was denying happen during the time in which they had a shot.

If you recall the last movie, ceasar made em all smart and released em. Then they broke out and the military came at there asses.

ves.

He had to tell his human guardian, "you better get the fuck outta here, cuz you may be nice but you belong to a race of savages"

The it reason they didn't get decimated is because the dumb humans killed themselves first with the virus

Now he runs into them again, they shoot one of his citizens and he wants to pretend it's possible to have peace. Koba's take on it matters, but ceasar ignores him and all the clues", then beats him up in front of the human and everybody else and he still requires loyalty? Foh

 

[wiZe]

all of his early interactions with humans was TERRIBLE except for ONE GUY.


Any people who are a part of a society that has been colonized by others can find correlation with the apes unfortunately, in terms of being sort of indigenous to some portion of land and being pimped for resources. Not all groups of folks can make a claim of just siting around peace loving and not having done something to expand their own territory, having done similar things to others.

There was a time due to small population sizes that a group could expand without subjugating others.

However, I do agree that all colonized people may find correlation in their experience to those of the apes in this flick.

 

[Lord T]

This explains what happened to the battleship that was in the trailers

DAWN OF THE PLANET OF THE APES' ORIGINAL ENDING REVEALED
Matt Reeves describes the original closing scene for Dawn.

Fans are in agreement: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes is a freakin' great movie. But what if it had ended differently?

Several weeks before the film's release, director Matt Reeves decided to change the ending of the movie. The production team had shot a completely different ending, but Reeves decided to go another way with it. So what was different about the original closing scene -- and why the change so close to release?

In a recent interview with /Film, Reeves explained, "What was different about the ending was that after the ending that you see in the final film, the idea was that the apes went out on a kind of exodus through the city, and they gathered on the Golden Gate Bridge in order to look into the distance for the approaching warships. And I felt that it was taking us too far into the next movie, and almost starting the next movie and not letting the emotion of what had just happened -- of what Caesar had just achieved and what [price Caesar had paid]. It wasn't letting that resonate and it wasn't ending... but the final shot was actually, in a way, the very same final shot. It was actually him on top of the Golden Gate Bridge, which was covered in apes, all looking out way, way into the distance to see this really, like, messed up armada, way in the distance, showing up [with] ships in disrepair. And it moved into his eyes as he took in the uncertain future."

"It was kind of cool," he continued, "but I realized that we had skipped too much of the emotion by doing that, and that it actually, in a way, boxed us in too much... Also, when we started showing this to people, some people [were] going, 'Wait, so does that mean the battle...?' Like, I meant for those ships to be way in the distance and they hadn't even seen the apes -- 'cause obviously the apes weren't gathering to begin the fight. The apes were gathering to look and see the fight that was coming toward them... but it was hard to render that idea. And when I showed it to some people they were like, 'So that's it? They're gonna start fighting right now?' And I was like, 'Well, no,' and I realized that we didn't have the right ending."

Based on Reeves' description, it almost sounds like Dawn's theatrical poster was foreshadowing the events to come in the third film. You'll notice (in the image above) the Golden Gate Bridge appears to be blasted in half, which never happened in the actual movie. (Also, Koba is distinctly missing from the lineup.) Hmm...

Reeves added that you probably won't see the original ending on Blu-ray or DVD since, though it was shot, it was never fully rendered. That said, would you have preferred an ending like the one Reeves described, or was the theatrical cut the way to go?

 

[Day_Carver]

Intentions count for something.

Koba shot Cesar..his trusted friend and set fire to the homes that they lived in so he could start the war. How is he any better than the humans we been demonizing? They're the same.

And like i said, i understand WHY he hates them. He wasn't doing it for the people he was doing it for himself. his hatred.

I'm not saying that.


We can even go to the end of the movie... Cesar didn't say.. shit I'm glad this part is over let's go chill y'all.. he told dude straight up it's war the humans won't stop you better get your ass out of here, we're about to prep up to fight.

he didn't say go try and talk to the humans and see if we can work out a truce.. he knew that wasn't a possibility.

He wasn't naive he wasn't trying to befriend the humans he just didn't want to go to war. Once war started no matter HOW it started he knew it was time to fight it till the end. That's the point. he did have the foresight to see what would happen if they just automatically went to war with the humans.. he didn't want that. Koba wasn't looking out for the future of the apes he was looking out for his own hatred trying to get retribution..and i understand that on his end cause of what he went through.

we can try to twist it like Koba was looking out for the apes but he wasn't.

 

[shaddyvillethug]

Ceasar = Niño

Kobe = Gmoney

He fucked up the carter and destroyed everything

 

[exiledking]

Ceasar = Niño

Kobe = Gmoney

He fucked up the carter and destroyed everything

lol if Koba had not shot Ceasar and set the war off at that point, there wouldn't BE a part 3.

Humans woulda gained power, came in and told the apes "ok thanks for the help. We're back on our feet now and some of you are fishing in the area we'd like to expand the dam to. So HERES how things will go from now on in YOUR territory. It's gonna be kinda like OUR territory, we just wrote this thing called a DEED to it. Mmmkay?

 

[shaddyvillethug]

I feel you

But that's why u can't be feedin niggas

They don't appreciate shit

Had Ceasar choked out Koba at the damn, shit woulda been gravy

 

[exiledking]

I feel you

But that's why u can't be feedin niggas

They don't appreciate shit

Had Ceasar choked out Koba at the damn, shit woulda been gravy

Shit woulda been gravy til the humans came in with new demands. Ceasar woulda been like "but... I thought... They loved me!" The humans would be coming in, the remaining apes woulda said "dammit! Koba was RIGHT! You betrayed us and lead is to slaughter!"

They would attempt to attack Ceasar at which point Ceasar woulda started hollering out for the humans in a pure British accent, the humans would snipe all except for Ceasar, take him and his family in to live in a comfy cage similiar to the last movie and kill all but a few that they keep for testing.

Movie ends with Ceasar like this

 

[exiledking]

I feel you

But that's why u can't be feedin niggas

They don't appreciate shit

Had Ceasar choked out Koba at the damn, shit woulda been gravy

Shit woulda been gravy til the humans came in with new demands. Ceasar woulda been like "but... I thought... They loved me!" The humans would be coming in, the remaining apes woulda said "dammit! Koba was RIGHT! You betrayed us and lead is to slaughter!"

They would attempt to attack Ceasar at which point Ceasar woulda started hollering out for the humans in a pure British accent, the humans would snipe all except for Ceasar, take him and his family in to live in a comfy cage similiar to the last movie and kill all but a few that they keep for testing.

Movie ends with Ceasar like this

 

[Darth Furious]

Ceasar = Niño

Kobe = Gmoney

He fucked up the carter and destroyed everything

FAM - THANK YOU. THIS IS IT.


I dont see how cats is trying to rationalize what Koba did. He wasnt no Malcolm to Ceasar's Martin, he was a manipulator. He knew exactly what he was doing from jump - which is why he told that sidekick - "I didnt tell Ceasr about the arsenal. And neither will you."

Nevermind the plot against Ceasar, overtaking the arsenal and the plan to force the Apes from their home to attack the humans, Koba was a warmonger. He was jealous and hateful and made side deals and plotted shit that cause ruin to the kingdom. Koba don't know what Ceaser woulda done had he been forced into War and led them himself. Same as G Money and his slipping on coke and taking the plan right outta Nino's hands. He forced shit to happen that the tribe was ill prepared for.

The only thing I understood was Koba feeling betrayed by Ash and killing him like "this whole shit was cuz you got shot nigga and you aint gonna get that work? Die with em." - something a human would do.

The point of the whole flick is CLEARLY to show the evil of man and how the infection of violence, HIS violence spreads. Like a disease. Thats why they spoke up the Simian Flu and the doc said it wasnt their fault, we created it. Thats why Kobas plan failed. Thats why Oldmans' plan backfired. Thats' why every gun weilding human in the movie gets smoked. They were all diseased and didnt even know it.




oNE

 

[wiZe]

FAM - THANK YOU. THIS IS IT.


I dont see how cats is trying to rationalize what Koba did. He wasnt no Malcolm to Ceasar's Martin, he was a manipulator. He knew exactly what he was doing from jump - which is why he told that sidekick - "I didnt tell Ceasr about the arsenal. And neither will you."

Nevermind the plot against Ceasar, overtaking the arsenal and the plan to force the Apes from their home to attack the humans, Koba was a warmonger. He was jealous and hateful and made side deals and plotted shit that cause ruin to the kingdom. Koba don't know what Ceaser woulda done had he been forced into War and led them himself. Same as G Money and his slipping on coke and taking the plan right outta Nino's hands. He forced shit to happen that the tribe was ill prepared for.

The only thing I understood was Koba feeling betrayed by Ash and killing him like "this whole shit was cuz you got shot nigga and you aint gonna get that work? Die with em." - something a human would do.

The point of the whole flick is CLEARLY to show the evil of man and how the infection of violence, HIS violence spreads. Like a disease. Thats why they spoke up the Simian Flu and the doc said it wasnt their fault, we created it. Thats why Kobas plan failed. Thats why Oldmans' plan backfired. Thats' why every gun weilding human in the movie gets smoked. They were all diseased and didnt even know it.




oNE

Damn good post, Darth.

 

[Darth Furious]

Thanks fam.



Seen that shit twice, once with the kids, once without and ALOT of shit stood out. There was cats in the theatre having full blown discussions about gun control, military maneuvering (Marine in there called it a false flag) and not only comparing the Apes plight to black people but how society has changed SO MUCH with the added class struggles and how every person tells themselves that what they are doing is the absolute. As if only they were called on to save their race from certain death. The arrogance of violence is astounding in this flick.

There were some that role reversed Koba too. I get it. It makes sense. But he was a Judas nonetheless. Caesar made his mistake thinking Apes were better than men and Koba proved him wrong. That shit was a powerful arc for any hero to learn in a summer popcorn movie.

Plus, shit had a Empire Striked Back, Godfather 2 ending. Nobody clapped or cheered, it was deep how folks reacted. I've never seen so much energy in a crowd to talk, black, white, women, men, gay, whatever - still sitting in their seats, after the credits rolled. EDIT: I mean talk to each other. Complete strangers in fact. One cat wrote his review on the spot, some chick started recording her opinions walking out the door.




For Sci fi fans, this is a BIG step


oNE

 

[Day_Carver]

FAM - THANK YOU. THIS IS IT.


I dont see how cats is trying to rationalize what Koba did. He wasnt no Malcolm to Ceasar's Martin, he was a manipulator. He knew exactly what he was doing from jump - which is why he told that sidekick - "I didnt tell Ceasr about the arsenal. And neither will you."

Nevermind the plot against Ceasar, overtaking the arsenal and the plan to force the Apes from their home to attack the humans, Koba was a warmonger. He was jealous and hateful and made side deals and plotted shit that cause ruin to the kingdom. Koba don't know what Ceaser woulda done had he been forced into War and led them himself. Same as G Money and his slipping on coke and taking the plan right outta Nino's hands. He forced shit to happen that the tribe was ill prepared for.

The only thing I understood was Koba feeling betrayed by Ash and killing him like "this whole shit was cuz you got shot nigga and you aint gonna get that work? Die with em." - something a human would do.

The point of the whole flick is CLEARLY to show the evil of man and how the infection of violence, HIS violence spreads. Like a disease. Thats why they spoke up the Simian Flu and the doc said it wasnt their fault, we created it. Thats why Kobas plan failed. Thats why Oldmans' plan backfired. Thats' why every gun weilding human in the movie gets smoked. They were all diseased and didnt even know it.




oNE

Thanks fam.



Seen that shit twice, once with the kids, once without and ALOT of shit stood out. There was cats in the theatre having full blown discussions about gun control, military maneuvering (Marine in there called it a false flag) and not only comparing the Apes plight to black people but how society has changed SO MUCH with the added class struggles and how every person tells themselves that what they are doing is the absolute.

There were some that role reversed Koba too. I get it. It makes sense. But he was a Judas nonetheless. Caesar made his mistake thinking Apes were better than men and Koba proved him wrong. That shit was a powerful arc for any hero to learn in a summer popcorn movie.

I've never seen so much energy in a crowd to talk, still sitting in their seats, after the credits rolled. One cat wrote his review on the spot, some chick started recording her opinions walking out the door.




For Sci fi fans, this is a BIG step


oNE

 

[Lord T]

The only thing I understood was Koba feeling betrayed by Ash and killing him like "this whole shit was cuz you got shot nigga and you aint gonna get that work? Die with em." - something a human would do.

I thought Koba was more betrayed by Rocket at the beginning when he came back and told him his son had been shot. Koba was talking loud in front of everyone "You're son got shot and you're not going to do shit about it"?! "Them damn humans shot your boy and you're not going to retaliate"?! All Rocket said was "I follow Caesar, whatever he thinks is best is what will be done". That right there burned Koba deep down.

When Koba threw Ash over the balcony that was his full transformation in Bishop. He knew he wasn't as loved and respected as Caesar, so his rulership would have to be with fear and brutality. He merked him in front of everyone, and then turned to Blue Eyes like "Don't be the next one..."


All of Koba's takeover reminded me of what I read about Saddam's rise to power. How when he took over he either killed, tortured, or locked up and imprisoned anyone who were loyalists and supporters of the previous regime or who stood in his way.

 

[Lord T]

Seems like Koba really hates the black man more than anyone else!

http://planetoftheapes.wikia.com/wiki/Koba

 

[Lord T]

Upon my 2nd viewing I have to say that Maurice is that Primate

Since the first film, Maurice has always been spitting knowledge and game to Caesar. He was shown to have had good intelligence before being exposed to the lab gas.

He doesn't say much, but when he does it's something worth noting. He's like Soundwave to Megatron.

Seems like he has similar views of humans like Caesar. He was a circus Orangutan, so maybe it was possible he might have seen the good in humans, wish they had said more about his past.

 

[Complex]

Wow! Great discussion regarding the personality differences and leadership qualities between Koba and Caesar.

Both sides make legit points.

This

 

[willbprod]

the black siskel and ebert. lol
www.urbancineplex.com

 

[Fuzzy_McNut]

Koba would be a perfect bgol member

His hate for cacs is next level

This I hatee the movie cuz of the ending . Thought ceasar was uncle tomahawk ass nigga. Ole house nigga.

I got the impression this was loosely based in how cacs feel bout us.

 

[exiledking]

FAM - THANK YOU. THIS IS IT.





I dont see how cats is trying to rationalize what Koba did. He wasnt no Malcolm to Ceasar's Martin, he was a manipulator. He knew exactly what he was doing from jump - which is why he told that sidekick - "I didnt tell Ceasr about the arsenal. And neither will you."



Nevermind the plot against Ceasar, overtaking the arsenal and the plan to force the Apes from their home to attack the humans, Koba was a warmonger. He was jealous and hateful and made side deals and plotted shit that cause ruin to the kingdom. Koba don't know what Ceaser woulda done had he been forced into War and led them himself. Same as G Money and his slipping on coke and taking the plan right outta Nino's hands. He forced shit to happen that the tribe was ill prepared for.



The only thing I understood was Koba feeling betrayed by Ash and killing him like "this whole shit was cuz you got shot nigga and you aint gonna get that work? Die with em." - something a human would do.



The point of the whole flick is CLEARLY to show the evil of man and how the infection of violence, HIS violence spreads. Like a disease. Thats why they spoke up the Simian Flu and the doc said it wasnt their fault, we created it. Thats why Kobas plan failed. Thats why Oldmans' plan backfired. Thats' why every gun weilding human in the movie gets smoked. They were all diseased and didnt even know it.









oNE

How does Ceasar get to be Martin when he clearly already went through a war 10 years ago with humans? This shit doesn't have anything to do with Martin/Malcolm anyway. The apes had their own sovereign nation. Malcolm/Martin didn't.

Koba was loyal to dude for 10 years and was bout it all the way up to the point he felt like ceasars actions and love for humans was putting the ape nation in jeopardy.

 

[exiledking]

I thought Koba was more betrayed by Rocket at the beginning when he came back and told him his son had been shot. Koba was talking loud in front of everyone "You're son got shot and you're not going to do shit about it"?! "Them damn humans shot your boy and you're not going to retaliate"?! All Rocket said was "I follow Caesar, whatever he thinks is best is what will be done". That right there burned Koba deep down.



When Koba threw Ash over the balcony that was his full transformation in Bishop. He knew he wasn't as loved and respected as Caesar, so his rulership would have to be with fear and brutality. He merked him in front of everyone, and then turned to Blue Eyes like "Don't be the next one..."





All of Koba's takeover reminded me of what I read about Saddam's rise to power. How when he took over he either killed, tortured, or locked up and imprisoned anyone who were loyalists and supporters of the previous regime or who stood in his way.

Harriet Tubman had to kill some slaves. She's in history as a hero cuz we understand her circumstances required her to do that for the better of all. Castro and Che had similiar circumstances and are seen the same way for the most part. You can say that about many leaders, including the euroPean ones. I can't see how you guys can watch the first and second movie and not understand that one tactic of complete non violence would be of use during this period of war.

 

[Database Error]

 

[mariano42]

Ceasar = Niño

Kobe = Gmoney

He fucked up the carter and destroyed everything