Curse of Ham's descendants = racism?

[Cristar Mymine]

What do you guys think about the biblical story where Noah's son Ham see's him in his nakedness and Noah puts a curse on Ham's fourth son?

The Curse of Ham (also called the curse of Canaan) refers to the curse that Ham's father Noah placed upon Ham's son Canaan, after Ham "saw his father's nakedness" because of drunkenness in Noah's tent. It is related in the Book of Genesis 9:20-27.

Some Biblical scholars see the "curse of Canaan" story as an early Hebrew rationalization for Israel's conquest and enslavement of the Canaanites, who were presumed to descend from Canaan.[1]

The "curse of Ham" had been used by some members of Abrahamic religions to justify racism and the enslavement of people of Black African ancestry, who were believed to be descendants of Ham.[2][3] They were often called Hamites and were believed to have descended through Canaan or his older brothers. This racist theory was widely held during the 18th-20th centuries[citation needed], but it has been largely abandoned since the mid-20th century.

 

[PrettyToney]

Absolutely ridiculous...1 star

 

[kefta]

Cristar Mymine...Sir, you are white. c' mon, you should be able to answer that question yourself. What black folk think is not relevant.

 

[Cruise]

Honkeys got to be in charge because of cheap oil and abundant resources for a few hundred years and now they think their s**t don't stink!

Well, reality is catching up fast.

It's going to be funny seeing those stank, honkey attitudes disappear when they realize they wasted the world's resources stroking their egos and have nothing left to show for it.

Yet, people won't forget how they acted like complete asses when they were briefly in charge.

 

[Les W]

Yeah it is Racism in the sense of mental slavery or brainwashing people of a race *willie lynch* to make them feel inferior but if you kept reading the wiki article you'd see

And there are those who say that the Cushim [black skinned people] are slaves because Noah cursed Ham [the father of Cush], but they forget that the first king after the flood was a descendant of Cush, and so it is written, 'And the beginning of his kingdom was Babylonia.

Noah cursed Canaan who is the father or Israel and not Cush who is the father of [North] Africa

The Bible is all allegory and myth so even though Noah and his sons were likely black (common sense being that oldest civilization and men trace back to black people) he c/would not curse "a race" because there was only black people in his family

 

[RoadRage]

You mean Noah the guy who finished building the Ark a the ripe age of 600, discovered America, and managed to capture two of each species, even two of the fresh water fishes that would have surely died if the world was to flood over spilling salt water in all the fresh water lakes as well as two of every single insect (I wonder how long he spent in the Amizon copping two of their insects). The same Noah who had to identify the male and female of each species, (some animals require sugery for a genter identification, the same Noah and his three sons who built a ark That's 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high! (thats higher than a 3 story building and around 20 basketball court) in 80years that means he did it when he was over 500 years old, Plus they never mention his other big ass boat he must have made to capture all the animals he got from other continents (hmmmm or did he build a plane?) and his submarine he built in order to capture the fresh water fish, I guess he invented the first Aquarium also, to house the fish,
The bottom line is, any adult that believes that bullshit is dumb as bat shit, end of thread!
For more infomation on how stupid the myth of Noah is, check it. ="http://ncse.com/cej/4/1/impossibl.../impossible-voyage-noahs-ark#Building the Ark

 

[SKATTA]

When the termites were on Noah's arc for forty days and night.

what did they eat?

am just saying.

 

[RichmondFire]

The Israelites were black skinned people too. The American slaves were not Canaanites, they are Israelites. Read Deut. 28:15-68. You can find yourself amongst those curses. The curse put on Canaan has nothing to do with the American slave.

 

[RoadRage]

According to every theory and evidence in science, we are the direct descendants of the original man! And if were made in his image, so go call us by our names!

 

[Dr. Truth]

I think you're a bitch ass cracka that needs to be gutted like a pig. Go fuck yourself faggot.

 

[Maxxam]

You mean Noah the guy who finished building the Ark a the ripe age of 600, discovered America, and managed to capture two of each species, even two of the fresh water fishes that would have surely died if the world was to flood over spilling salt water in all the fresh water lakes as well as two of every single insect (I wonder how long he spent in the Amizon copping two of their insects). The same Noah who had to identify the male and female of each species, (some animals require sugery for a genter identification, the same Noah and his three sons who built a ark That's 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high! (thats higher than a 3 story building and around 20 basketball court) in 80years that means he did it when he was over 500 years old, Plus they never mention his other big ass boat he must have made to capture all the animals he got from other continents (hmmmm or did he build a plane?) and his submarine he built in order to capture the fresh water fish, I guess he invented the first Aquarium also, to house the fish,
The bottom line is, any adult that believes that bullshit is dumb as bat shit, end of thread!
For more infomation on how stupid the myth of Noah is, check it. ="http://ncse.com/cej/4/1/impossible-voyage-noahs-ark#Building the Ark"]http://ncse.com/cej/4/1/impossible-voyage-noahs-ark#Building the Ark

 

[RoadRage]

Fuck faith! I'd rather have knowledge!! Name one fucken invention or discovery that was created by faith, other than the Ark, Noahs submarine, his aquarium, and/or is magic plane.

 

[Les W]

 

[dbluesun]

http://www.hebrewisraelites.org/deut282.htm

click the link for the whole thing,,,this is just some of the info on the page,,,i did not read it all so i don't know/endorse the whole thing but what i read did answer Cristar's question


Deuteronomy Chapter 28:
ContinuesVERSE 37: AND YOU SHALL BECOME AN ASTONISHMENT, A PROVERB, AND BYWORD, AMONG ALL NATIONS WHERE YHWH SHALL LEAD YOU (in captivity).

An astonishment means a sad, pitiful amazement, so remarkable as to elicit disbelief . The general attitude of some "black" people is so disgraceful that it motivates other races to observe us with astonishment. This is the reason many people are always asking the question "why are blacks behind"? "They should be ahead of other groups since they have been here for over 400 years". "African Americans" have become an astonishment to the world, other people are looking at us and wondering why we can't and haven't prospered in the richest nation on earth as other ethnic groups do (including the Jews).
The word proverbs and bywords actually have the same meaning here in the 37th verse. A proverb and byword are objects of general reproach, derision, an epithet or scornful nickname. These proverbs and bywords are nicknames that are used in a scornful manner in substitution for our true nationality. Names such as - ******, Negro, Coon, Blackey, Spade, Porch Monkey and so on and so on. These names are without a doubt proverbs and bywords, but so are the names African Americans and Blacks. Because they also are substitution for Israel true nationality, let me explain.
Africa is not a tribe, country, language or nationality, Africa is the name of a continent. It's the 2nd largest land mass in the world. It has 53 countries with many different people, languages and cultures. Africa is not a nationality because there's not a country on earth name Africa, so you can't refer to a group of people as African in reference to their national origin. The Ancient Egyptians, Nubians, Hebrews and other people who are indigenous to that continent, never mentions a place called Africa. And that's because the name Africa is Latin in it's origin.
The name comes from the Romans who spoke Latin. Africa has become synonymous with black and black skinned people, for the simple reason that the majority of the people who reside on that continent are black skinned. And the majority of the black skinned people around the world have some kind of ancestral ties to that continent. But all of this still doesn't change the fact that Africa is the name of a CONTINENT NOT A RACE OR GROUP OF PEOPLE.
The same can be said for AMERICA, it's not a COUNTRY, TRIBE, NATIONALITY OR LANGUAGE. America is also the name of a continent, it's divided into three parts NORTH, CENTRAL AND SOUTH. The United States is a country on the continent of America, and in the United States You have every ethnic / racial group living here. All these groups can name their national homeland, no matter how long they have resided in this country. For EXAMPLE: Germans are from Germany, Irish are from Ireland, Italians from Italy, Mexicans are from Mexico, Chinese are from China, Ghanaian are from Ghana, Ethiopians from Ethiopia, and Jews are from Europe and Israel.
All Ethnic groups in the United States can do this Except the so called African Americans. We know our fore parents were brought to this country from various west African nations. This is why throughout this dissertation I have used quotation marks and the word "so called" in reference to the names African Americans - Africans and Blacks. None of these names describes a nationality, nation or national homeland.
The word Black is an adjective and it should only be used to describe a noun or pronoun, for example: A black car, black hair, black shoes or black skinned people. Black does not constitute a nationality, there isn't a place called black country on earth. If you look up the word black in any English dictionary, you will find at least 35 different definitions. And out of those 35, more than half will have a negative meaning such as: EVIL, WICKED, GLOOMY, DEATH AND UNPLEASANT just to name a few. These false names were placed on us in order to further humiliate us. The reason why I used African Americas and blacks in reference to true Israel. Was to let you know who I was speaking about, but now you know. So from here on out I will only use the names Israel / Hebrews and Israelites in reference to the people who are called African Americans and blacks.
VERSE 41: YOU SHALL BEGET SONS AND DAUGHTERS, BUT YOU SHALL NOT ENJOY THEM FOR THEY WILL GO INTO CAPTIVITY.
The bible tells us that ancient Israel went into many captivities (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon etc.). But this is exactly how we got here, our fore parents were brought to this part of the world as captive slaves. Who were captured on the west coast of Africa. This isn't how the Jews or any other ethnic group got here. All other groups came here on their own free will.
VERSE 43: THE STRANGER THAT IS WITHIN YOU SHALL GET UP ABOVE YOU VERY HIGH AND YOU SHALL COME DOWN VERY LOW.
In this verse, stranger refers to other ethnic / racial groups other than the children of Israel. This means that other racial / ethnic groups that live in the same country or city as the Hebrews, will rise up the social / economic ladder higher than the Hebrews, as a collective people. And because of this the Hebrews will be brought down to a lowly state.
The United States has maintained a racial and ethnic ranking preference that places European whites, Asians, Hispanics and Indians over Hebrews. They have a higher social acceptability and they were never mistreated by dominant white society or government the way generation after generations of Hebrews have. Nearly 100% of our ancestors were in this country before nearly 100% of the ancestors of today's Jewish, Italian, German, French, Japanese, Chinese, and Hispanics. All ethnic groups rank above us in acceptability in the U.S. We have been assign the lowest level in this country.
VERSE 44: HE (the stranger) SHALL LEND TO YOU, AND YOU SHALL NOT LEND TO HIM: HE SHALL BE THE HEAD AND YOU SHALL BE THE TAIL.
All across this country from coast to coast, if you visit any Hebrew neighborhood you will see the stranger (OTHER ETHNIC / RACIAL IMMIGRANT GROUPS) owning nearly 100% of the businesses located in Hebrew neighborhoods. Hebrews spend 95% of our annual disposable income with businesses located within white communities. Of the 5% that remains within our communities another 3% is spent with non-Hebrew own businesses. With only 2% of our annual disposable income remains within our communities, it is difficult if not impossible for us to maintain a reasonable quality of life and be economically competitive.
Hebrews take their money to the stranger, which makes jobs available for their people, while our people remain unemployed (we have the highest unemployment rate in the country despite a "good economy"). Only in our community do you find every other ethnic group running the businesses.

• For example; the Jews own the CURRENCY EXCHANGES, BANKS AND LENDING INSTITUTIONS.
• Arabs own the GROCERY STORES, & FAST FOOD RESTAURANTS,
• Asians own the CLOTHING STORES AND BEAUTY SALONS,
• East Indians own the CONVENIENT STORES AND GAS STATIONS.
• While whites own the rest, and Hebrews own little if any businesses in our community.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

We have been brought down low because all our economic power is going into the hands of the stranger. This has helped put him in a higher social and economic position, thus making the stranger able to lend to us, but we can't lend to him. We have to go outside of our community to get loans for just about everything. We have to go to the stranger to get car loans, Mortgage loan, business loans and loans for social / community events, in many cases if the stranger don't loan or give it to us, we won't get it.
Because we will never have full membership in this nation, we are now looking at other ethnic groups as examples we should follow in order to better our condition. If we are willing to follow the examples of these ethnic groups (strangers), this means that these groups are in the lead (head) and we are following them (tail). This is prophecy, it is the way Yah said it would be, and this is the way it is.
VERSE 45: MOREOVER ALL THESE CURSES SHALL COME UPON YOU, AND SHALL PURSUE YOU AND OVERTAKE YOU, TILL YOU BE DESTROYED: BECAUSE YOU HEARKENED NOT UNTO THE VOICE OF YHWH, TO KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS AND HIS STATUES WHICH HE COMMANDED YOU. (46) AND THEY SHALL BE UPON YOU FOR A SIGN AND FOR A WONDER, AND UPON

 

[WheelsofClay]

What do you guys think about the biblical story where Noah's son Ham see's him in his nakedness and Noah puts a curse on Ham's fourth son?

Your quote contains the answer to your question. None of the old testament speaks of the curse black people of Africa.

The lifespan of the supposed Ham's curse dates back to the 1800s. This is the time period when many common white folks really began to challenge the exploitation of darker people by the White European leeches.

Most white folks didn't participate in the enslavement of black people or the extermination of indigenous populations. Racism is the manifestation of propaganda by big money. This BS church doctrine was use to justify the mistreated and abuse of black people.

 

[RoadRage]

^^^^^^^^^
Excellent read, and to piggy back on it. We are trained!!! Training just like a dog or any other domestic pet. We are trained to abandon our god given talent! You see every animal has a god given gift, the bird can fly, the bee can make a home out of honey and wax, the fish can breath under water, and man has the ability to think. However, instead of thinking, we are taught to feel and believe. If it feels good, then do it, and if you have faith or believe you are right, then why question. Wasn't that the philiosiphy of the grasshopper, in the grasshopper in the ant? Funny they are telling you what is going to happen to your ass, for thinking like that, why do you think them CAC's named their site the stormfront?
But I've digressed... Tell some of today's kids that buying all that jewelry and foolish rims is the actions for fools, they will tell you point blank, stop hating on my paper, totally unable to reason with the fact that was just posted on how spending your money outside of your community effects us all. And if you were to tell the average black motherfucker who is proud of the purchasing power, we blacks have today, that it don't mean shit, if we keep handing over our money to the very same people that despise us, they would most likely look at you with the same confusion and hostility!
Yet everyone wants the government to give us jobs, rather ironic, don't you think? Yes if you think you would find it ironic, but the problem is, we have been trained by our churches to believe, feel, wish and hope, while the rest of the world is about doing whats best and understanding the world around them. But then again we were trained to be subservient labors, too bad that job is becoming obsolete.

 

[RoadRage]

Yall need to read this shit!

Noah's ark*

In the book of Genesis, the God of the ancient Hebrews is depicted as regretting he'd created such wicked creatures as human beings. He favors Noah and his family but destroys most other living creatures, not just the humans whose wickedness offended him, but all animals and presumably all plants as well. God plans to drown the whole world in a flood. To save himself and other animal species, Noah is directed to build a big boat that will save them from the flood.

In Genesis 6:19-21, it is written:

And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.

And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.

In Genesis 7:2-3, it is written:

Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.

Presumably, this contradictory set of instructions was no bother to Noah and to future Biblical literalists. If he takes seven pair, then he also takes two pair. And in some ancient esoteric traditions it is possible that seven means two. Also of no importance is that these flood stories appear to be cribbed from the neighboring Bablylonians. Even though the scientific evidence strongly indicates that the Babylonian texts are older than the Jewish texts, Bible believers know that can't be so. Therefore, the scientists are wrong. The Bible story is older. End of story.

Noah's ark is the boat built by the Biblical character Noah and his family. At the command of God, according to the story, Noah was to build a boat that could accommodate his extended family and a lot of animals. Some Bible folks say he only needed to bring about 16,000 pairs of breeders. (He just needed to bring "kinds" of animals, not samples of each species, which some moronic interpreters think is the intended meaning.) Others say that the number of species needed ranged from 1.5 million to 4 or 5 million. Of course, we're including insects and maybe a few bacteria or viruses. Anyway, the craft had to be big and had to be constructed to endure the divinely planned universal flood aimed at destroying every other person and animal on earth. Aquatic animals pose a minor problem since most can live only in sweet water or salt water but not both. A universal flood would mix the seas with the sweet water lakes, rivers, and streams.

There were no insurmountable problems, however, according to Dr. Max D. Younce, who says by his calculations from Genesis 6:15 that the ark was 450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet deep. He says this is equivalent to "522 standard stock cars or 8 freight trains of 65 cars each." By some divine calculation he figures that all the insect species and the worms could fit in 21 box cars. He could be right, though Dr. Younce does not address the issue of how the big boxcar filled with its cargo rose with the rainwater level instead of staying put beneath the floodwaters. Would the weight of all those animals keep a boat of these dimensions from floating? I don't know but it doesn't matter because even if the boat should sink it wouldn't because God wouldn't let it. The story would make no sense if such a boat would sink under the weight of its cargo. In any case, as one Biblical scholar has pointed out: animals are mostly water and water floats in water. So, how could there be a problem?

Another part-time Biblical scholar, John Renish, who also does work pro bono for a certain skeptic, writes:

Using the good Reverend Younce's figures, the ark (not a boat, but a box in Hebrew) displaced (assuming it floated at half its height) just under 76,000 cubic feet of water. [I calculate this to be just above 500k cubic feet of water, but I can't be trusted to add 2+2. B.C.] Assuming further that the water was nearly as dense as seawater (64 lb./cu. ft.), we get 4,860,000 lb. or 2430 tons for the vessel's gross weight, presumably about 1600 tons of cargo, including people, animals, and food for all of them. A cow weighs about half a ton; so, for the clean cattle alone, we're talking 3.5 tons. Ditto for camels, perhaps 3/4 ton for sheep, and 1/2 ton for goats. Add in all the marsupials, bison, rhinoceroses, elephants, reptiles, amphibians, birds, and so on, and we quickly exceed 1600 tons for animals alone, let alone their feed. As for "kinds," the Bible makes it clear that doves and crows are different "kinds," suggesting that at best, kinds are roughly equivalent to genus. That's a huge number of "kinds" to be accommodated. For the box to founder, it could support somewhat less than about 3200 tons of cargo.

My figures are quick and dirty--I don't know how many genera of animals have been identified, for example, or how many genera of plants can't tolerate six months of total immersion. I also didn't consider how long it would take for plants to recolonize the Earth, providing the necessary forage for the vegetarians and, ultimately, the necessary food for the carnivores. What are the poor meat-eaters to eat before the bunnies, elands, etc. do their thing?

Feeding mammals requires about 15 kcal/kg of body weight per day (that varies widely: for shrews, for example, it's on the order of 250 kcal/kg. That is, 1600 tons of animals would consume something on the order of 32,000,000 kcal/day, probably more because the vast majority of genera are physically much smaller than humans. For six months, that would come to at least 4,800,000,000 kcal. Even if the food were entirely fat (the most calorie-dense food), that would require 53,333 kg (roughly 56 tons) of food. But since ungulates mostly eat grass or hay, we're talking a lot more food--each elephant consumes 65+ kg of forage a day and other large ungulates consume some tens of kg of food per day--the four elephants (two genera) alone would consume 260 kg daily, or more than 50 tons during six months. For that matter, since the Flood followed the Fall, many "kinds" would have to consume meat, which you can't preserve that long except by drying, requiring enormous amounts of fresh water in addition to that consumed by most animals--mammals require perhaps three liters of water per 100 kg per day. Those poor elephants have to consume among them some 750 liters (200 gallons) of water per day. Assuming the oceans were so diluted by the rain as to make the water potable (highly unlikely), the ability of the ark to carry cargo would be less--only about 98% of my original estimate.

The largest wooden ships in history were more modern and somewhat smaller--the odds are that the technology of the time and the reputed material (gopher wood or shittim wood = ?acacia) would have made such a structure too flimsy for the purpose.

Frankly, all this calculating makes me dizzy. It seems fruitless anyway, since believers think they can invoke a miracle whenever they get stuck in an apparently illogical corner. (Objections have been made to Mr. Renish's playful excursion into Biblical mathematics. Click here to see the objection in all its simplistic detail and the response in all its glory.)

Those not familiar with the story might wonder why God would destroy nearly all the descendants of all of the creatures he had created. The story is that God was displeased with all of his human creations except for Noah and his family. Annihilating those one is displeased with has become a familiar tactic of the followers of this and many other gods. In any case, we're talking about God here and He doesn't have to make sense to us or explain himself to his creatures. If he wants to annihilate us, he can. It's his right.

Despite the bad example God set for Noah's descendants--imagine a human parent drowning his or her children because they were "not righteous"--the story remains a favorite among children. I say this is a bad example because we were made in God's image and we know we should strive to be as godlike as possible. Imitating God would be a good thing, wouldn't it? Anyway, it's clear that God likes good people and dislikes wicked people. He lets good people ride on a boat with a bunch of friendly animals. He shows them a great rainbow after the storm. And they all live happily ever after and do wicked deeds no more...well, maybe that's an exaggeration. You'd think that if anything would teach us a lesson it would be a universal flood but human memory is short and soon we were back to our old ways. In any case, even adults like the story, though they might see it as an allegory with some sort of spiritual message, such as God is all-powerful and we owe everything, even our very existence to the Creator. Furthermore, the Creator expects us to behave ourselves. But there are many who take the story literally.

According to the story told in chapter 7 of Genesis, Noah, his crew, and the animals lived together for more than 6 months before the floodwaters receded. There are a few minor logistical problems with this arrangement, but before getting to them, there is one other thing that needs commenting on. It is obvious that floods are no laughing matter. The destruction of life and property caused by floods has plagued many animals, not just humans, from time immemorial. To watch one's family or home swept away in floodwaters must be a terrible spectacle. To see one's children drown, one's life and dreams washed away in an instant, must be a devastating experience. But if one were to discover that the flood was not a whimsical effect of chance natural events, not unplanned and purposeless, but rather the malicious and willful act of a conscious being, one might add rage to the feelings of devastation. We must remember, however, that it is God's world; he created it, so he can destroy it if he feels like it. But such an attitude seems inappropriate for an all-good, all-Loving , all-powerful God. The logical conclusion is that God is either not all good and all loving or God is not all-powerful. But we're talking about God, here. God doesn't have to be logical. We know the Bible is true, so if we are asked to choose between logic and the Bible, we choose the Bible.

There are, however, a couple of problems with this story. If there were a universal flood, there should be a lot evidence left behind. The problem is that scientists who have studied floods and scientists who have studied the sedimentary layers of the earth can't find any traces of a universal flood. We should find the geology around the world "beginning with coarse-grained poorly sorted deposits of sand and gravel and boulders from the fast-water stage of the flood. Once a flood recedes, it can leave only one kind of deposit: a single layer of mud" (Prothero 2007: pp. 66). Instead, we find enormous variety around the world, but mostly we find sedimentary layers that were put down one upon the other over long periods of time. Donald Prothero writes that "in a supreme twist of irony," Ken Ham's Creation Museum in Kentucky:

is built upon the famous Ordovician rocks of the Cincinnati Arch, which span millions of years of the later Ordovician. If you poke around the slopes all around the area (as I have often), you will find hundreds of finely laminated layers of shales and limestones, each full of delicate fossils of trilobites and bryozoans and brachiopods preserved in life position that could never have been disturbed by flood waters—and each layer of hundreds represents another community of marine organisms that grew and lived and then was gently buried in fine silts and clays. There is no possibility these hundreds of individual layers of delicately preserved fossils were deposited in a single "Noah's flood." (Prothero 2007: pp. 62)

We'd also expect to find a universal flood would have done severe damage to the fossil sedimentary record, mixing fossils from all time periods as it ravaged the earth. But just as we do not find the universal layer of mud from such a flood, so too we do not find any rabbit fossils in the pre-Cambrian layer, nor any layers with both dinosaurs and humans.

the "finding" of the ark

As preposterous as the Noah's ark story is, there are people in the twenty-first century who claim they have found Noah's ark. They call themselves "arkeologists." Yes, they say that when the flood receded, Noah and his zoo were perched upon the top of Mt. Ararat in Turkey. Presumably, at that time, all the animals dispersed to the far recesses of the earth. (No small feat, when you think about it, but they had come to Noah from the four corners of the earth to get on board his lifeboat, so what was another 3,000 mile swim or flight? Especially impressive are animals like pandas and koalas who only eat bamboo and eucalyptus, respectively. Feeding to and fro the ark for such creatures was no small feat.) How the animals got to the different continents, we are not told. Perhaps they floated there on debris or swam or walked on the water. More problematic is how so many species survived when they had been reduced to just one pair or seven pairs of creatures. Also, you would think that the successful species that had the furthest to travel, would have left a trail of offspring along the way. What evidence is there that all species originated in Turkey? None. But that's what the record should look like if the ark landed on Mt. Ararat. God could have teleported them home, but you'd think Moses would have mentioned it in his book (assuming, of course, that Moses wrote Genesis 6 and 7).

Still, none of this deters the true believer from maintaining that the story of Noah's ark is the God's truth. Nor does it deter those who think the ark has been found. For example, in 1977 a pseudo-documentary called "In Search of Noah's ark" was played on numerous television stations. CBS showed a special in 1993 entitled "The Incredible Discovery of Noah's Ark." The first is a work of fiction claiming to be a documentary. The second was masterminded by George Jammal, who has admitted that the story was a hoax. Jammal said he wanted to expose religious frauds. His hoax was seen by about 20 million people, most of whom probably still do not know that Jammal did not want them to take it seriously.

During his show, Jammal produced what he called "sacred wood" from the ark, which he later admitted was wood taken from railroad tracks in Long Beach, California, which he had hardened by cooking in an oven. He also prepared other fake wood by simmering a piece of California pine on his kitchen stove in a mix of wine, iodine, sweet-and-sour, and teriyaki sauces. He also admitted that he had never been to Turkey. The program was produced by Sun International Pictures, based in Salt Lake City and which is responsible for several pseudo-documentaries on Nostradamus, the Bermuda Triangle, the Shroud of Turin, and UFOs.

the evidence for a universal flood

Stories of floods are not unique to the ancient Jews.* What geological or archaeological evidence is there of such a universal destruction of all human societies, all plants and all animals except for the ones on Noah's boat (or Ziusudra's [Sumeria], or Utnapishtim's [Babylon])? There should be a layer of sediment dating from the same time which contains all the bones of these poor creatures. There should be evidence that all human societies were wiped out simultaneously. No such evidence exists of a universal flood. Evidence of a great flood, perhaps caused by melting glaciers bursting through the Bosporus strait some 7,000 years ago, has been discovered off the coast of Turkey by Robert Ballard (who found the remains of the Titanic) and some (like Ryan and Pitman) have claimed this is evidence of Noah's flood, but this is pure and inane speculation. (In any case, this flood supposedly occurred because of melting glaciers 8,000 years ago, before God even created anything!). The Biblical flood is due to rain, not a bursting dam. As archeological anthropologist John Alden notes

...the story in the Bible is clear -- it rained for weeks before Noah's flood, and after it stopped raining the floodwaters receded. The Black Sea flood wasn't caused by rain, and after the water rose it never went away. And neither [the Sumerian nor the Biblical] story mentions the most dramatic consequence of the Black Sea flood, which turned fresh water into salt. Noah's flood, in short, doesn't sound anything like the inundation of the Black Sea.

However, for the sake of argument, let's agree that there was a universal flood, but that somehow the evidence got twisted around so that geologically and archaeologically it doesn't appear that the flood occurred. There are still a few questions we should ask before accepting this story. There is the problem of gathering the animals together from the various parts of the world that, as far as we know, Noah had no idea even existed. How did he get to the remote regions of the earth to collect exotic butterflies and Komodo dragons? Or how did he communicate to those animals that they needed to come to him pronto? Another miracle, I suppose. How did he get all those species of dinosaurs to follow him home? How much time would it take to round up 5 million pairs of animals? or even just 30,000 or so?

But let's grant that Noah was able to collect all the birds and mammals, reptiles, and amphibians, and a couple of million insects that he is said to have gathered together on his boat. There is still the problem of keeping the animals from eating one another. Or, are we to believe that the lion was lying down with the lamb on the ark? Did the carnivores become vegetarians for the duration of the flood? Yes, of course, or Noah fed them dead meat that he'd stored in his food locker.

It's true that the Flood came after the Fall, so the need for meat as feed would be enormous and somewhat messy. For those who don't study the Bible regularly, like myself, I pass on the reminder that T. Rex was an herbivore before the Fall. How do we know this? Because there was no death before the Fall. If you don't believe me, watch the video below and listen to Bill and Rusty misguide children on their "Biblically Correct Tour" of a science museum.

How did Noah keep the birds from eating the insects? Again, Noah went to the food locker. After all, if Noah could engineer the building of a boat that could hold all those animals, it would have been a small feat to add room to store enough food to last for more than six months. Of course, Noah would have to store enough food for himself and his family, too. But these would have been minor details to such a man with such a plan guided by God.

Still, it seems difficult to imagine how such a small crew could feed all these animals in a single day. There is just Noah, his wife, their three sons and three daughters-in-law. The "daily" rounds would take years, it seems. Delicacy forbids me from mentioning the problems of the "clean-up" detail, but I would have to say that if the noise of all those animals didn't drive Noah insane (not to mention the insect bites), the smell should have killed him. At least they didn't have to worry about water to drink. God provided water in abundance.

Starting to see through the bullshit? And if Noah is B.S. guess what? So is Moses because he is supposed to be a direct line of Moses.

Adam
lived 930 years
died 216 yrs. before the birth of Noah
Seth = Adam’s 3rd son
lived 912 years
Seth knew Noah for 34 years before he died
Methuselah (4th great grandson of Seth)
lived 969 years
Methuselah knew Adam 243 years*
Methuselah knew Seth 355 years
Lemech (son of Methuselah)
lived 777 years (died before his father)
he is the father of Noah
died 5 years before the flood
Noah lived 950 years
Methuselah knew Noah 600 years and died the year of the flood
Talked with his father, Lemech 595 years
Shem son of Noah (father of all Semites)
lived 600 years
talked with Methuselah 98 years*
lived after the flood 502 years
Eber or Heber (great-grandson of Shem)
lived 464 years
knew both Noah and Shem
Terah (3 x great grandson of Eber)
lived 205 years
130 yrs old when Abraham is born
talked with both Noah and Shem
Abraham (Abram son of Terah)
lived 175 years
Abraham knew Shem son of Noah 150 years
Noah died 2 yrs. before Abraham was born
Heber outlives Abraham by 4 years
Isaac (son of Abraham and Sarah)
lived 180 years
knew Shem (son of Noah) 50 years*
Jacob (called Israel and son of Isaac and father of the 12 tribes)
lived 147 years
knew Abraham 20 years
Levi (3rd oldest son of Israel – Jacob)
knew Isaac about 45 years*
knew Amran father of Moses who was his grandson*
great grandfather of Moses
Levi passed on the oral history to his grandson Amran*
Moses (son of Amran son of Kohath son of Levi)
Lived 120 years
brother of Aaron who knew their father approx. 65 years*
Moses receives the Oral Tradition from God and is commanded to write the first 5 books of the Old Testament.

So if Moses was fake then so is David, Abraham and Jesus..

 

[nyeleman]

Fuck faith! I'd rather have knowledge!! Name one fucken invention or discovery that was created by faith, other than the Ark, Noahs submarine, his aquarium, and/or is magic plane.

Calendar by the phoenicians

Alphabet

And they are dumb as shit yet you are using it dumbass snitch

 

[kwazdog]

If anybody is cursed it's the CAC'S....

 

[gene cisco]

So wait a second. If the Hebrews were black and the Egyptians were black is this black on black violence? And what is with all the genocide the Hebrews did(according to the book Moses said their god ordered it)?

I mean according to some militants on the board whitey is the source of all evil but if this bible is from original black hebrews somebody has some fucking explaining to do. Child rape. Slavery. Genocide. Incest.

 

[nyeleman]

What do you guys think about the biblical story where Noah's son Ham see's him in his nakedness and Noah puts a curse on Ham's fourth son?

Ham's curse is a Misinpretation because Nowhere in Ham's curse is the skin colour black even mentioned. If anything the only racial curse in the bible is Skin turning White( gehazi curse, moses hand etc) . The idea of using ham's curse as justification for slavery is a modern(14th century) misinterpration because if Ham's curse was real african slavery would have been prominent throughout the ages and it never was until the 14th century.

 

[RoadRage]

Calendar by the phoenicians

Alphabet

And they are dumb as shit yet you are using it dumbass snitch

Invented by faith? Well ask your faith to give to me an exlination on how the Myth of Noah could have been true.. And remember the last time you got owned trying to do so.

 

[RoadRage]

Oh lets not forget your theory on a 6 thousand year old earth, you dumbass coon!​

 

[nyeleman]

Oh lets not forget your theory on a 6 thousand year old earth, you dumbass coon!​

This is wjhy my young nephew thinks you are a dumb ass

the 6000 year old earth is a theory from James USSHER not the bible idiot

Here educate your dumb ass mentally enslaved self
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Ussher

Invented by faith? Well ask your faith to give to me an exlination on how the Myth of Noah could have been true.. And remember the last time you got owned trying to do so.

You can't understand a simple Rain cycle and yet you want an explanation?

Dumb fuck

What you need to do is ask that stupic potato above your neck why it's Using the Aleph-beth -tau HEBREW PHOENICIAN alphabet to communicate with me when supposedly all faith inspired inventions are none existant

GTFOH you mental emotional midget

 

[mk23666]

What do you guys think about the biblical story where Noah's son Ham see's him in his nakedness and Noah puts a curse on Ham's fourth son?

It is believed by some scholars that the story of the curse was written into the Bible/Torah in order for the Jew/Hebrew to justify taking the land that was designated for blood relatives of the Jew/Hebrew. They saw in the story a way to take the birthright of a people (no matter they were there first for centuries AND were kin) away from them, using a God as their authority and excuse for genocide in many cases.

In some cases (following orders by their God) the returning Israelites led by Moses and then Joshua killed every man woman and child in a given city ... not to mention all of the animals owned by those same kinsmen of the Canaanite line. In other cases (In what seems like either their disobediance of God,or God changing his mind) they killed all of the males and kept the adult women and young girls for wives of a city. And in some situations they just made pacts with Canaanite descendants and joined forces against other kinsmen in the region.

 

[RoadRage]

This is wjhy my young nephew thinks you are a dumb ass

the 6000 year old earth is a theory from James USSHER not the bible idiot

Here educate your dumb ass mentally enslaved self
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Ussher


You can't understand a simple Rain cycle and yet you want an explanation?

Dumb fuck

What you need to do is ask that stupic potato above your neck why it's Using the Aleph-beth -tau HEBREW PHOENICIAN alphabet to communicate with me when supposedly all faith inspired inventions are none existant

GTFOH you mental emotional midget

Ok how did Noah feed all the animals and get all the animals in one ship, and did he invent the aquarium , if not how did he get all the fresh water fish to survive? How was he able to tell the difference between a male and female of certain species? I know with some birds the only way to tell is by operation. Oh how long did he spend in the Amazon forest? They are still finding hundreds of new species of insects every year. I guess he discovered the Americas also, I wonder why your history teacher gave you a fucken F for thinking so.

 

[RoadRage]

There are, however, a couple of problems with this story. If there were a universal flood, there should be a lot evidence left behind. The problem is that scientists who have studied floods and scientists who have studied the sedimentary layers of the earth can't find any traces of a universal flood. We should find the geology around the world "beginning with coarse-grained poorly sorted deposits of sand and gravel and boulders from the fast-water stage of the flood. Once a flood recedes, it can leave only one kind of deposit: a single layer of mud" (Prothero 2007: pp. 66). Instead, we find enormous variety around the world, but mostly we find sedimentary layers that were put down one upon the other over long periods of time. Donald Prothero writes that "in a supreme twist of irony," Ken Ham's Creation Museum in Kentucky:

Please comment! Dumbass!

 

[RoadRage]

However, for the sake of argument, let's agree that there was a universal flood, but that somehow the evidence got twisted around so that geologically and archaeologically it doesn't appear that the flood occurred. There are still a few questions we should ask before accepting this story. There is the problem of gathering the animals together from the various parts of the world that, as far as we know, Noah had no idea even existed. How did he get to the remote regions of the earth to collect exotic butterflies and Komodo dragons? Or how did he communicate to those animals that they needed to come to him pronto? Another miracle, I suppose. How did he get all those species of dinosaurs to follow him home? How much time would it take to round up 5 million pairs of animals? or even just 30,000 or so?

While your at it answer this. Dumbass!

 

[nyeleman]

Ok how did Noah feed all the animals and get all the animals in one ship, and did he invent the aquarium , if not how did he get all the fresh water fish to survive? How was he able to tell the difference between a male and female of certain species? I know with some birds the only way to tell is by operation. Oh how long did he spend in the Amazon forest? They are still finding hundreds of new species of insects every year. I guess he discovered the Americas also, I wonder why your history teacher gave you a fucken F for thinking so.

You mentally deranged cunt , don't mistake me for someone who was educated in a system that Crakkafies your thinking. Your questions are laughable to say the least, how can anyone ask where Noah got fresh water from when the biggest source of clean purefresh water is RAIN. And asking me how you can tell the difference between a male and female is just stupid and shows a crakkafied harmless uncle tom that knows nothing about nature

If you atheists are so smart why not invent an alphabet if your own instead of using the hebrew one

 

[nyeleman]

While your at it answer this. Dumbass!

And you say we are dumb

Here let me explain to you

You don't need to take each and every living specie because most of the so called exotic species belong to the same genus. For example a Komodo gragon's genus is is VARANUS . A komodo dragon in asia is only different to Water monitor lizard in conditions . You don'r have to take that many species of animals onto an ark because most of those species can diversify and take on new characteristics. For example take two butterflies those butterflies can spawn thousands of new butterly species by simple animal diversification



simple yet to you it's complicated

 

[gene cisco]

Ya'll 2 muthafuckas like Sabretooth and wolverine.

 

[RoadRage]

You mentally deranged cunt , don't mistake me for someone who was educated in a system that Crakkafies your thinking. Your questions are laughable to say the least, how can anyone ask where Noah got fresh water from when the biggest source of clean purefresh water is RAIN. And asking me how you can tell the difference between a male and female is just stupid and shows a crakkafied harmless uncle tom that knows nothing about nature

If you atheists are so smart why not invent an alphabet if your own instead of using the hebrew one

Rain water will mix with the minerals of the earth causing it to be non fresh, where do you think all the salt from the oceans came from you dumb ass!

How Can you tell A Cockatoo's Gender?
People say you can tell by the color of the eyes, but unless you know what you're doing, that's obviously not going to work. The second method (since most are not obviously different) is to do a quick DNA test.

It can be done by you or your vet. Requires either a few drops of blood on a test card or a few freshly plucked chest feathers. Send it in, in a few days you have the results. It's around $20 for blood, $25 for feather if you just do it yourself, probably more if the vet does it. There are a few different places online that offer it. I use Avianbiotech.com, they can also send you a free kit.

Many animals require DNA testing for gender identification, before DNA they used a surgical method of determining the sex! Guess your faith is wrong again Dumb ASS!

Now on to the other questions!

 

[RoadRage]

Ya'll 2 muthafuckas like Sabretooth and wolverine.

Nah he is just a residential dimwit that I like to kick around when I get bored, call him the village idot!
No one takes him seriously and some criticize me for my cerebral bashing, however those who know me, know I can be fucked up like that towards those who promote ignorance!

 

[nyeleman]

Rain water will mix with the minerals of the earth causing it to be non fresh, where do you think all the salt from the oceans came from you dumb ass!


Many animals require DNA testing for gender identification, before DNA they used a surgical method of determining the sex! Guess your faith is wrong again Dumb ASS!

Now on to the other questions!

This is why I think debating you is pointless because you are too delusional

Rain water mixing with minerals Excuse me I don't remember seeing Bunch of minerals floating around polluting rainfall. You do know that rain water when it evaporates LEAVES THE IMPURITIES and the only reason why Rain water today is tainted is because of Carbon dioxide from cars Unless you want to say that the people that lived with Noah had Cadillac escalades that polluted the air before the flood then


I love you second point because it shows how sheltered your education is. Most animals in the animal kingdom including insects are very easy to very whether they are male of female. For example a female hyena is bigger than a male, a female mosquito is bigger than the male and is silent . It's really as simple as a matter of looking not DNA testing

 

[RoadRage]

This is why I think debating you is pointless because you are too delusional

Rain water mixing with minerals Excuse me I don't remember seeing Bunch of minerals floating around polluting rainfall. You do know that rain water when it evaporates LEAVES THE IMPURITIES and the only reason why Rain water today is tainted is because of Carbon dioxide from cars Unless you want to say that the people that lived with Noah had Cadillac escalades that polluted the air before the flood then


I love you second point because it shows how sheltered your education is. Most animals in the animal kingdom including insects are very easy to very whether they are male of female. For example a female hyena is bigger than a male, a female mosquito is bigger than the male and is silent . It's really as simple as a matter of looking not DNA testing

You are officially dumber than shit now!​

​

Dear Kids,

Salt in the ocean comes from the land. The elements that make up salts, such as chlorine and sodium, started out in rocks. Water and acids eroded the rocks, and rivers carried the elements into the sea. The oceans usually contain 35 parts of salts for every 1000 parts of sea water. This is lower in some places where there is a lot of fresh water coming into the ocean. It is higher where the Sun is very strong and evaporates more of the water. When all the water is gone, the salts are left behind as solid, white crystals.

The right amount of salt is a very important part of our diet. In ancient times, salt was worth its weight in gold. People used it to flavor and preserve their food. Without salt, the food would spoil. For this reason, salt became a symbol of purity. Some sacrifices in the Old Testament included salt (Leviticus 2:13; Ezekiel 43:24). Jesus called faithful people "the salt of the earth," and the apostle Paul said that our speech should be "seasoned with salt" (Colossians 4:6).

http://www.discoverymagazine.com/digger/d97dd/d9704dd.html