Cornell West need to face reality

[BKF]

This is a stupid argument. If he had run as an independent and split the vote, Trump would still be president because Dems would have voted for Hillary and ya'll would be blaming Sanders for Trump instead of Comey, like you blame Ralph Nader for Bush

Nothing stupid about it. It's a straight up fact.
The poster claimed that Sanders was brave to be liberal/progressive . Yet he wasn't brave enough to run as an independent and build up his own brand. As far as blaming Sanders...what difference does that make since he and his supporters didn't give a fuck anyway (Bernie or Bust).
Btw where did you get that I blamed Nader for Bush You're making shit up to cover for your weak ass retort to my post.

 

[Gods_Debris]

Nothing stupid about it. It's a straight up fact.
The poster claimed that Sanders was brave to be liberal/progressive . Yet he wasn't brave enough to run as an independent and build up his own brand. As far as blaming Sanders...what difference does that make since he and his supporters didn't give a fuck anyway (Bernie or Bust).
Btw where did you get that I blamed Nader for Bush You're making shit up to cover for your weak ass retort to my post.

So democrats didn't put blame on Nader for Bush being elected? The "you" I employ is plural.

 

[Drayonis]

how they killed Seth Rich for leaking those emails.....hell she might be getting impeached too.

So far we have one member repeating right-wing talking points like a trained seal and now THIS one repeating Alex Jones.

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Peace, Dray.

You have to understand She was the safe bet. She was middle of the road left-leaning politician. While Bernie was seen as a wild radical crazed leftist that would have pushed the country further to the left in a drastic way. The Right (and trust me I listen to some of their media) had already started ratcheting up their attacks on him as the "Ultimate Communist/socialist". He had baggage as well. His history and story wasn't clean and he was an easy attack. The dude was vulnerable as shit. The DNC went on a safe bet. I agree with that "Safe bet".

Bernie's message was a message of "Fiscal reconciliation" not "racial reconciliation" it's the reason that white people with dreads and flip-flops loved him. He was attacking the corporations as the REAL villains that was keeping white people poor - BUT- ignoring the system of racism that black people have always dealt with. It's the reason he campaigned in WHITE LIBERAL areas forever and didn't go to BLACK people until very, VERY late in the game. It's the reason his white followers were lashing out at blacks during the campaign, because they didn't CARE about RACIAL inequality they cared about FINANCIAL INEQUALITY. They were mad that they went to college and were still living with their parents, saddled with debt and working at Starbucks but FUCK the fact that they wouldn't even let us work at Starbucks.

As long as people on the left have a "Purety test" in order to be the head of a party, we WILL continue to lose. Like someone else said, Trump is a fucking mess, a bumbling, contradictory retard of a man. But guess what? When it came time to vote, the Republicans locked arms and said "We are all in". The Dems started chasing their tales and arguing amongst themselves. Republicans will stick together no matter what. Dems will argue themselves out of an election.

*and lets not forget, the Dems have another thing working against them. Our mixture of Demographics have the WORST turn out during any election. Mid-terms especially. The Republicans have the "Media Arm" working 24/7 inside households and playing in hotel lobbies across America - FOX NEWS and TALK RADIO. Brainwashing generations to think as they do. When it's time to vote, they VOTE. When it's time for us to vote? We argue and don't show up.

**Bottom line is THIS - Politics is a LONG GAME...you move sometimes in yards and sometimes in inches, but for some of ya'll if you can't have a YARD, you'd rather just quit the game.

Regarding Bernie Sander's "Vulnerability" As a Candidate: of course the Right would have relied heavily on the 'Crazy Leftist' smear when confronted with Sanders. That goes without saying. But that doesn't necessarily make him vulnerable. How would the American people have responded to his message about his vision for the country? How would the American people have responded to his certain evisceration of Trump during the national debates (a feat that your candidate, for all of her time spent in the Beltway, couldn't manage to do)? My belief is that many non-Dems who couldn't bring themselves to vote for Hillary would have absolutely supported Bernie Sanders.

The Dems didn't want Sanders for the same reason that they initially fought Obama, tooth and nail, from getting the nomination: because they were beholden to the Clintons. In their rush to pay back political favors and insert a white woman into the White House, they completely miscalculated how truly polarizing Hillary Clinton was and is.

And please. Please. You, easy b, Camille, whomever, PLEASE stop perpetuating the outright falsehood that Bernie Sanders supporters cost Clinton the election. It's beneath all of you. Clinton simply didn't have the charisma, perceived authenticity or reputation to connect with non-Dem voters. She ran against an obviously unhinged, twice-divorced, openly racist, reality television nincompoop who bragged about grabbing pussies a few weeks before the election, and SHE STILL COULDN'T BEAT THAT MOTHERFUCKER. Just think about that for a second.

As I mentioned, she's been the target of a multi-million dollar, decades long, deeply influential, Republican-run smear campaign. I get that. Most of these cacs who hate her can't even coherently explain why. I also understand that Bernie, like the majority of cac liberals, is retarded on race. But you guys need to come to grips with the fact that the reason that President Trump exists is because Democratic establishment shit the bed.

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Peace,

I've been watching this guy's timeline for the past few hours or so, going back and forth with progressives. Bernie supporters have been horrible to black folks.

https://twitter.com/JKH2

So...white people are racist, then? Is that what's going on here? If so, I find that disappointing.

 

[Entrepronegro]

Has it ever happened before now?

Yes I believe so.

 

[Camille]

Yes I believe so.

Doubtful.

 

[Camille]

Peace,



So...white people are racist, then? Is that what's going on here? If so, I find that disappointing.

He was going back and forth with a few different people over Bernie at the time. These were progressives, or so called progressives. The BS he was dealing with, was widespread, Bernie Bros trying to bully black people into voting for him, and showing their ass when said black person didn't agree that he was the greatest thing since the invention of fire.

 

[Camille]

You have to understand She was the safe bet. She was middle of the road left-leaning politician. While Bernie was seen as a wild radical crazed leftist that would have pushed the country further to the left in a drastic way. The Right (and trust me I listen to some of their media) had already started ratcheting up their attacks on him as the "Ultimate Communist/socialist". He had baggage as well. His history and story wasn't clean and he was an easy attack. The dude was vulnerable as shit. The DNC went on a safe bet. I agree with that "Safe bet".

Bernie's message was a message of "Fiscal reconciliation" not "racial reconciliation" it's the reason that white people with dreads and flip-flops loved him. He was attacking the corporations as the REAL villains that was keeping white people poor - BUT- ignoring the system of racism that black people have always dealt with. It's the reason he campaigned in WHITE LIBERAL areas forever and didn't go to BLACK people until very, VERY late in the game. It's the reason his white followers were lashing out at blacks during the campaign, because they didn't CARE about RACIAL inequality they cared about FINANCIAL INEQUALITY. They were mad that they went to college and were still living with their parents, saddled with debt and working at Starbucks but FUCK the fact that they wouldn't even let us work at Starbucks.

As long as people on the left have a "Purety test" in order to be the head of a party, we WILL continue to lose. Like someone else said, Trump is a fucking mess, a bumbling, contradictory retard of a man. But guess what? When it came time to vote, the Republicans locked arms and said "We are all in". The Dems started chasing their tales and arguing amongst themselves. Republicans will stick together no matter what. Dems will argue themselves out of an election.

*and lets not forget, the Dems have another thing working against them. Our mixture of Demographics have the WORST turn out during any election. Mid-terms especially. The Republicans have the "Media Arm" working 24/7 inside households and playing in hotel lobbies across America - FOX NEWS and TALK RADIO. Brainwashing generations to think as they do. When it's time to vote, they VOTE. When it's time for us to vote? We argue and don't show up.

**Bottom line is THIS - Politics is a LONG GAME...you move sometimes in yards and sometimes in inches, but for some of ya'll if you can't have a YARD, you'd rather just quit the game.

There was nothing stopping other dems from stepping up. They would have had to polled at I believe 15% or a certain percentage to make it to the debates, but only Hillary, Bernie and McMullen did. The GOP had so many candidates they had to do the debates in stages. Yes there was a mindset that it was "her turn", but that same mindset existed in 2008 and Obama blew it out the water.

Bernie and now Biden want to talk shit, Biden should have thrown his hat in the ring. Bernie's wife is under investigation right now. Reporters at the time who had seen it had said the oppo file on Sanders and his wife was huge and conceded there was no way he would have won. Bernie's camp missed deadlines and everything else. And he still talking shit about dems and dems are still pandering to his old ass. I say this as a former Bernie supporter. I had wanted him to run at one time, BUT once he was on the national stage, and he couldn't pivot on anything. Everything came back to economics, free college and health care. That was it. I'm not even sure how well he would have done on international issues.

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Peace,

He was going back and forth with a few different people over Bernie at the time. These were progressives, or so called progressives. The BS he was dealing with, was widespread, Bernie Bros trying to bully black people into voting for him, and showing their ass when said black person didn't agree that he was the greatest thing since the invention of fire.

White people are racist. Clinton supporters are no more racially tolerant than Sanders supporters. All you need to do is convince them that black people are to blame for any minor inconvenience that they may be experiencing and they'll go directly to their default.

 

[Drayonis]

The fact that he was bragging about raising everyone's taxes is an easy disqualifier. Americans on both sides ain't with you once you start spouting that shit.

There was nothing stopping other dems from stepping up. They would have had to polled at I believe 15% or a certain percentage to make it to the debates, but only Hillary, Bernie and McMullen did. The GOP had so many candidates they had to do the debates in stages. Yes there was a mindset that it was "her turn", but that same mindset existed in 2008 and Obama blew it out the water.

Bernie and now Biden want to talk shit, Biden should have thrown his hat in the ring. Bernie's wife is under investigation right now. Reporters at the time who had seen it had said the oppo file on Sanders and his wife was huge and conceded there was no way he would have won. Bernie's camp missed deadlines and everything else. And he still talking shit about dems and dems are still pandering to his old ass. I say this as a former Bernie supporter. I had wanted him to run at one time, BUT once he was on the national stage, and he couldn't pivot on anything. Everything came back to economics, free college and health care. That was it. I'm not even sure how well he would have done on international issues.

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Peace,

Doubtful.

Just what exactly do you think you're doing here?

 

[Camille]

Peace,





Just what exactly do you think you're doing here?

Ut oh. What did I do now?

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Peace,

Ut oh. What did I do now?

Why are you arguing with that dummy? You bored?

 

[Camille]

Peace,



Why are you arguing with that dummy? You bored?

I'm not arguing with him. He always quotes me regardless of how many other people post in a thread just to get my attention. I think he just likes the reassurance that he's not on ignore yet.

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Peace,

I'm not arguing with him. He always quotes me regardless of how many other people post in a thread just to get my attention. I think he just likes the reassurance that he's not on ignore yet.

Gotcha. You're doing pro bono work.

 

[Camille]

 

[Camille]

 

[Camille]

 

[lengthy]

this guy is a disappointment. fucking charlatan

Mr . Lengthy

 

[Sango]

Cornell is the prime example of someone that can speak eloquently and don't be saying shit. That's how intellects are able to manipulate or control arguments against those that doesn't speak as well. They simply do not have to words to argue back.

But sitting on that panel with intellects and people that can call him on his bullshit lets you know that he ain't about shit.

Which is precisely why he lost his composure and can't seem to identify who he's claiming to represent. This is about his pride and ego in his feelings about the revolutionary potential missed with candidate Bernie Sanders.

 

[JimJones]

Bill riding hard for Hilary and for what? I understood everything Dr West said. If trump is the means by which we measure then the bar is low enough for anyone to be considered better. It's akin to the bullshit response we all hear when someone has fucked upped. "No one is perfect" as if perfection is the standard by which we measure or judge. We not asking for perfection however we not going to allow you to just fuck up and make mistakes that could have been avoided either. HilAry would have mAde choices many of us would have agreed with but she would have did some shit we would have hated as well just not as much as trump. I'm with West on this.

 

[Camille]

Bernie Bros are still sore losers:

 

[crazycac52]

Peace, Dray.



Regarding Bernie Sander's "Vulnerability" As a Candidate: of course the Right would have relied heavily on the 'Crazy Leftist' smear when confronted with Sanders. That goes without saying. But that doesn't necessarily make him vulnerable. How would the American people have responded to his message about his vision for the country? How would the American people have responded to his certain evisceration of Trump during the national debates (a feat that your candidate, for all of her time spent in the Beltway, couldn't manage to do)? My belief is that many non-Dems who couldn't bring themselves to vote for Hillary would have absolutely supported Bernie Sanders.

The Dems didn't want Sanders for the same reason that they initially fought Obama, tooth and nail, from getting the nomination: because they were beholden to the Clintons. In their rush to pay back political favors and insert a white woman into the White House, they completely miscalculated how truly polarizing Hillary Clinton was and is.

And please. Please. You, easy b, Camille, whomever, PLEASE stop perpetuating the outright falsehood that Bernie Sanders supporters cost Clinton the election. It's beneath all of you. Clinton simply didn't have the charisma, perceived authenticity or reputation to connect with non-Dem voters. She ran against an obviously unhinged, twice-divorced, openly racist, reality television nincompoop who bragged about grabbing pussies a few weeks before the election, and SHE STILL COULDN'T BEAT THAT MOTHERFUCKER. Just think about that for a second.

As I mentioned, she's been the target of a multi-million dollar, decades long, deeply influential, Republican-run smear campaign. I get that. Most of these cacs who hate her can't even coherently explain why. I also understand that Bernie, like the majority of cac liberals, is retarded on race. But you guys need to come to grips with the fact that the reason that President Trump exists is because Democratic establishment shit the bed.

They cant hear you because they are upset that the man had the integrity to criticize Obama. Thats why they side with the Racist supposed to be liberal Bill Maher. Bernie voters, Jill voters, and Johnson voters didn't elect Trump period the numbers simply dont add up.. The day the party ordained hillary to be the nominee knowing how hated she was they gave us trump. The fact that people are still running with the Bernie Bro nonsense shows how gullible some of you are. New flash its a Hillary Clinton campaign talking point with no basis in fact just like Obama Boys were in 2008. Hillary could have won despite her flaws if she didn't run a terrible campaign trying to win over republicans instead of rallying her base.

For the record I think Hillary would be better than Trump some social issues worse on foreign policy and the same on economic issues. As far as the supreme court Obama needs to take that L. He was so busy trying to be show republicans how reasonable he could be he picked a terrible candidate. He should have picked Lynch or another black women or Hispanic man for the job. He then should have brought it up weekly to the press and framed it as the constitutional crisis that it was. He would have either gotten the vote are motivated turn out.

 

[Big Tex]

They cant hear you because they are upset that the man had the integrity to criticize Obama. Thats why they side with the Racist supposed to be liberal Bill Maher. Bernie voters, Jill voters, and Johnson voters didn't elect Trump period the numbers simply dont add up.. The day the party ordained hillary to be the nominee knowing how hated she was they gave us trump. The fact that people are still running with the Bernie Bro nonsense shows how gullible some of you are. New flash its a Hillary Clinton campaign talking point with no basis in fact just like Obama Boys were in 2008. Hillary could have won despite her flaws if she didn't run a terrible campaign trying to win over republicans instead of rallying her base.

For the record I think Hillary would be better than Trump some social issues worse on foreign policy and the same on economic issues. As far as the supreme court Obama needs to take that L. He was so busy trying to be show republicans how reasonable he could be he picked a terrible candidate. He should have picked Lynch or another black women or Hispanic man for the job. He then should have brought it up weekly to the press and framed it as the constitutional crisis that it was. He would have either gotten the vote are motivated turn out.

Trump has alienated all of our allies to cater to our enemy. How is that better than Clinton foreign policy?
Trump is proposing huge tax cuts for the wealthy while slashing benefits for the poor and middle class along with eliminating the mortgage tax break. How is that the same on economics?

And, if Trump being sued not once, but twice for not renting to black people and going around saying he's going to kick all the mexicans out, did motivate black and mexican people to come out and vote, why the hell would a nominee to the supreme court do it?

Dems showed they didn't give a fuck about the supreme court when they gave it to the Republicans because of their love of Sanders.

 

[BKF]

The fact that he was bragging about raising everyone's taxes is an easy disqualifier. Americans on both sides ain't with you once you start spouting that shit.

That's why I don't understand why his supporters think his socialist platform would have propelled him to the presidency. Most Americans are to the middle right.

 

[Drayonis]

Oh shit. All we've saying. They demonized Hillary to the poin where people were saying she's just as bad as Trump. She can be bad but no where as bad. And Bernie "I'm raising all your taxes" Sanders? No chance in Hell

 

[Drayonis]

That's why I don't understand why his supporters think his socialist platform would have propelled him to the presidency. Most Americans are to the middle right.

They are in a vaacum that kept saying, "if people just listen to him, Americans will just listen". No. They. Fucking. Won't.

 

[BKF]

They cant hear you because they are upset that the man had the integrity to criticize Obama. Thats why they side with the Racist supposed to be liberal Bill Maher. Bernie voters, Jill voters, and Johnson voters didn't elect Trump period the numbers simply dont add up.. The day the party ordained hillary to be the nominee knowing how hated she was they gave us trump. The fact that people are still running with the Bernie Bro nonsense shows how gullible some of you are. New flash its a Hillary Clinton campaign talking point with no basis in fact just like Obama Boys were in 2008. Hillary could have won despite her flaws if she didn't run a terrible campaign trying to win over republicans instead of rallying her base.

For the record I think Hillary would be better than Trump some social issues worse on foreign policy and the same on economic issues. As far as the supreme court Obama needs to take that L. He was so busy trying to be show republicans how reasonable he could be he picked a terrible candidate. He should have picked Lynch or another black women or Hispanic man for the job. He then should have brought it up weekly to the press and framed it as the constitutional crisis that it was. He would have either gotten the vote are motivated turn out.

Then Sanders should have had the integrity to run as an Independent.

 

[Drayonis]

The thing is I've been into politics to close to 27 years. I've watched the Republicans 24/7 attack the Clintons since the 90's mostly on Talk Radio back then and then later as Fox News became a powerhouse.

It's funny that the same stupid "talking points" created solely to attack Hillary 20 years ago as a kid, I hear 20 year old Bernie supporters repeating and black folks who didn't pay any attention to politics until Obama showed up on the scene repeating. Were the Clintons perfect? FUCK NO. But I always looked at them as what they were. White people, who were established politicians who knew how to work the game. Hillary would have pushed Obama's policies more to the left - she was the first to come out publicly and push for universal Healthcare in the 90's - Republicans dubbed it "Hillary Care".

The reason the Republicans were afraid of her and had to create false narratives about e-mail servers and Benghazi was because THEY KNEW if she took office the Clintons had the two things people will listen to. White skin and how to work Congress.

 

[crazycac52]

Trump has alienated all of our allies to cater to our enemy. How is that better than Clinton foreign policy?
Trump is proposing huge tax cuts for the wealthy while slashing benefits for the poor and middle class along with eliminating the mortgage tax break. How is that the same on economics?

And, if Trump being sued not once, but twice for not renting to black people and going around saying he's going to kick all the mexicans out, did motivate black and mexican people to come out and vote, why the hell would a nominee to the supreme court do it?

Dems showed they didn't give a fuck about the supreme court when they gave it to the Republicans because of their love of Sanders.

1. Did you not notice her terrible record as Sec of State. She pushed regime change with disastrous results and hasn't met a war she wouldn't support. She is a hawk on Syria and might have escalated that to a war with Russia with her no fly zone proposal. If you didnt know she supported bombing Syria. here is a quote from her
"Assad has an air force, and that air force is the cause of most of these civilian deaths as we have seen over the years and as we saw again in the last few days... And I really believe that we should have and still should take out his air fields and prevent him from being able to use them to bomb innocent people and drop sarin gas on them."

2. Obama made over 80% of bushes tax cut permanent , Bill Clinton decimated welfare and deal the crime bill while Hill rallied folks to the cause. Hillary said to wall street that its important to have a public position and a private one. Hillary also told the bankers she thought they were being treated unfairly. Hillary sat on Walmarts board and picked a running mate who said he felt we needed to unleash wall street. I'm sure she would have been right there for us working people.
3. People are motivated to vote by having something to support not by having something to vote against. This was one of the critical flaws in her campaign . Her whole campaign was basically boiled down to I'm not as bad as trump.

Oh and Dray what you posted about Hillary being under attack for 20 years completely undermines your point. What kind of stupid did the democratic party have to be to nominate a person with all that baggage + an active FBI investigation? Did the Democrats think people that hated the Clintons for the last 2 decades were going to change their minds this time. Nominating Clinton was an act of Hubris that cost the country the election.

 

[Drayonis]

Oh and Dray what you posted about Hillary being under attack for 20 years completely undermines your point. What kind of stupid did the democratic party have to be to nominate a person with all that baggage + an active FBI investigation?

Not even. I knew most of the attacks were utter bullshit and so did many Dems. The point is that many people listened to conservatives over reality. Like I said, she was middle-of-the-road slightly left leaning and that's still better sell than "an old man waving his hands about free college and raising taxes ".

 

[Big Tex]

1. Did you not notice her terrible record as Sec of State. She pushed regime change with disastrous results and hasn't met a war she wouldn't support. She is a hawk on Syria and might have escalated that to a war with Russia with her no fly zone proposal. If you didnt know she supported bombing Syria. here is a quote from her
"Assad has an air force, and that air force is the cause of most of these civilian deaths as we have seen over the years and as we saw again in the last few days... And I really believe that we should have and still should take out his air fields and prevent him from being able to use them to bomb innocent people and drop sarin gas on them."

2. Obama made over 80% of bushes tax cut permanent , Bill Clinton decimated welfare and deal the crime bill while Hill rallied folks to the cause. Hillary said to wall street that its important to have a public position and a private one. Hillary also told the bankers she thought they were being treated unfairly. Hillary sat on Walmarts board and picked a running mate who said he felt we needed to unleash wall street. I'm sure she would have been right there for us working people.
3. People are motivated to vote by having something to support not by having something to vote against. This was one of the critical flaws in her campaign . Her whole campaign was basically boiled down to I'm not as bad as trump.

Oh and Dray what you posted about Hillary being under attack for 20 years completely undermines your point. What kind of stupid did the democratic party have to be to nominate a person with all that baggage + an active FBI investigation? Did the Democrats think people that hated the Clintons for the last 2 decades were going to change their minds this time. Nominating Clinton was an act of Hubris that cost the country the election.

Trump's foreign policy is to get rid of NATO, separate from our European Allies and submit to Russia. Trump also said he would "bomb the hell out of them" and take the oil. He said he would commit war crimes be going after the families of terrorists. Trump is also planning on withdrawing for the Paris climate agreement and is threatening to undercut the UN. So, once again, tell me how that is better than Clinton's policies?

The 80% of the Bush tax cuts Obama made permanent were the ones going to middle class people. The ones he didn't were for the wealthy. That crime bill was for FEDERAL CRIMES. So any harsh increase sentencing happened on the state and local level by leaders you and we elected. Not Bill Clinton. The President cannot make your state and local laws. At all.

And people did have something to vote for. We could have overturned Citizens United. We could have re-instated the full Civil Rights Act. We could have solidified Roe v Wade. We could have had a liberal, progressive majority in the courts for a generation. Everything alleged progressives claimed to care about. But in the end, they didn't care about these things at all. All they cared about was an old man that had 0.0% chance of enacting any of the things he stumped for. And they fucking gave it all away.

I don't care about any of the shit you say about Clinton, Obama, whomever. That was the thing that mattered. And we fucking flushed a once in a generation chance away.

So when your children are living through all these conservative decisions, let them know that hating Hillary Clinton was worth 30 years of fuckery.

 

[Camille]

Thread. Click the first tweet and follow down:










Check his whole timeline. Lots of info.

 

[xxxbishopxxx]

There was nothing stopping other dems from stepping up. They would have had to polled at I believe 15% or a certain percentage to make it to the debates, but only Hillary, Bernie and McMullen did. The GOP had so many candidates they had to do the debates in stages. Yes there was a mindset that it was "her turn", but that same mindset existed in 2008 and Obama blew it out the water.

Bernie and now Biden want to talk shit, Biden should have thrown his hat in the ring. Bernie's wife is under investigation right now. Reporters at the time who had seen it had said the oppo file on Sanders and his wife was huge and conceded there was no way he would have won. Bernie's camp missed deadlines and everything else. And he still talking shit about dems and dems are still pandering to his old ass. I say this as a former Bernie supporter. I had wanted him to run at one time, BUT once he was on the national stage, and he couldn't pivot on anything. Everything came back to economics, free college and health care. That was it. I'm not even sure how well he would have done on international issues.

Well in Bernie's defense, the guy that won was all about lock her up, fuck Nato and NAFTA,build a wall, and of course, Obama needs to show his birth certificate. He didn't do a lot of pivoting either...lol.