Cornell West need to face reality

[easy_b]

Because its immaterial to the discourse of discussing the candidates on the merits.. Its literally the most anti intellectual response you can have... Which is troubling coming from a so called intellectual.. His initial point is that she is no more destructive than Trump. He spouts that from a position of influence and perceived intelligence and education.. Yet when cornered he abandons that for a weak fallback of "well, it dont matter actually". Thats awful bro. And for someone who professes to be so utterly concerned with human rights and civil liberties, there really is no serious discussion to be held comparing the two candidates in that regard.. Especially with so much on the line (supreme court appt most notably). Cornell played himself.

See you bring up another good example the Supreme Court that is very important

 

[BKF]

Sir I am very liberal but this country is not going to swing liberal overnight you have to gradually take them to that point I E what Obama care due to some Republican constituents they hated it at first but when I had to use it and got more exposed to it they liked it I always said Obama care was universal healthcare own time delay.

The problem is people assume everyone wants liberalism in teh first place. Some of us are liberal on some things/issues and more conservative on other things/issues.

 

[BKF]

They may not still be "butt hurt" if it wasn't found they stole the primary.....maybe should be a little more outrages about that?

How exactly was the election stolen and why didn't' Sanders run as an independent (maybe you should be a little more outraged about that)?

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Peace,

Who was the better choice, Sanders? The guy who right now doesn't claim to be a democrat?

Obviously it was Sanders. Hillary and her camp (and the traditional Dem power structure) knew that, which is why they actively suppressed Sanders' campaign.

 

[zenman]

I hate when people say stole the primary again and I said this all last year send us shot his self in the foot due to his interesting supporters especially when he did the southern swing

YOu must have missed everything about Seth Rich and the DNC emails and Debbie Wasserman Schultz. It was really stolen, man.

 

[slewdem100]

Cornell being dogmatic...weakens the rest of his points...pick the lessor of two evils while continuing to fight for what you really want and continuing to work towards economic independence

 

[easy_b]

I've learn that you are not changing some peoples mind on Hilary! I for one thinks she was a better choice than Trump but a lot of people believe she wasn't a better alternative. It looks like Bernie would have been the better choice for the Democratic party.

No I think Hillary would have been better like I said in one of my post above this country has to be gradually pulled to the liberal side.

 

[easy_b]

YOu must have missed everything about Seth Rich and the DNC emails and Debbie Wasserman Schultz. It was really stolen, man.

I didn't miss that he didn't want to fully commit as a Democrat he just used the party to get resources that was my biggest issue with him

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Peace,

What's a loose canon?

Being progressive? Not being afraid of being liberal? Not playing the middle?

Right. What these cats can't bring themselves to admit is this: the Dems mailed in a decades old favor to a tainted, uninspired, uninspiring candidate (one who happened to run the absolute worst fucking campaign I've ever seen) and THAT'S what cost them the election. It didn't have a goddamned thing to do with liberals not voting. They want to blame the symptoms and not the disease.

 

[easy_b]

Cornell being dogmatic...weakens the rest of his points...pick the lessor of two evils while continuing to fight for what you really want and continuing to work towards economic independence

Dogmatic is the perfect word

 

[zenman]

How exactly was the election stolen and why didn't' Sanders run as an independent (maybe you should be a little more outraged about that)?

No, I'm not outraged by that, this country is a two party country no matter who you try to sugar coat it. If you are not in one of the 2 parties you have almost 0% chance of winning, I think you know that and you know Bernie knows that

 

[BKF]

Peace,



Obviously it was Sanders. Hillary and her camp (and the traditional Dem power structure) knew that, which is why they actively suppressed Sanders' campaign.

Oh please...Sanders lost in most of the states that held primaries and not some fucking straw vote. If he couldn't handle Hillary, then how the fuck was he going to handle Trump?

 

[4 Dimensional]

Peace,



What did he say that you didn't agree with?

I don't hear him making a point. I hear a bunch of well said words but nothing of substance that validated his argument and the stance against Bill. The moment he introduced "doesn't matter because he in NJ" introduced a totally different and open discussion of things that doesn't matter. That's not to the point of the validity of each candidate and the choice of ones intentions to shake some of the things Obama done to help people of lower income. It points to none of what we chooses matters, so why bother in the first place?

If that's the case why engage in the discussion in the first place.

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Peace,

YOu must have missed everything about Seth Rich and the DNC emails and Debbie Wasserman Schultz. It was really stolen, man.

They can't admit this to save their lives.

 

[BKF]

No, I'm not outraged by that, this country is a two party country no matter who you try to sugar coat it. If you are not in one of the 2 parties you have almost 0% chance of winning, I think you know that and you know Bernie knows that

Stop the nonsense. He could have ran as the independent candidate but chose the safer route. Btw you didn't answer how the primary was stolen from Sanders.

 

[zenman]

I didn't miss that he didn't want to fully commit as a Democrat he just used the party to get resources that was my biggest issue with him

So you didn't like his commitment to the party?? The Hell with the spying, ethics violations, silencing whistle blowers and murder. You're talking about commitment?
?

 

[Complex]

I didn't miss that he didn't want to fully commit as a Democrat he just used the party to get resources that was my biggest issue with him

You don't see the irony in saying this in defense of someone who her and husbands whole thing was to be a conservative democrat in an attempt to get Republican voters.

When for the previous eight years Democrats have been begging Obama to stop doing that shit

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Peace,

Oh please...Sanders lost in most of the states that held primaries and not some fucking straw vote. If he couldn't handle Hillary, then how the fuck was he going to handle Trump?

We're not really having a true debate because you don't seem to be familiar with how the Democratic establish/Clinton loyalists actively sabotaged the Sanders campaign. If you aren't familiar with that, you're not going ever to understand why the Dems lost the election.

 

[easy_b]

Peace,



They can't admit this to save their lives.

I said this in another post Sanders didn't really want to commit as a Democrat he just used a party for resources. Btw in 2015 of December some of Sanders people tried to illegally take a mailing list from the DNC so don't make him innocent in all of this.

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Peace,

I don't hear him making a point. I hear a bunch of well said words but nothing of substance that validated his argument and the stance against Bill. The moment he introduced "doesn't matter because he in NJ" introduced a totally different and open discussion of things that doesn't matter. That's not to the point of the validity of each candidate and the choice of ones intentions to shake some of the things Obama done to help people of lower income. It points to none of what we chooses matters, so why bother in the first place?

If that's the case why engage in the discussion in the first place.

He gets turned around a great deal more than he should, but Maher was intentionally trying to obfuscate his argument. What he should have said more directly was this:

1) Anyone would have been better than Trump; this is so obvious that it's hardly worth mentioning
2) The Democrats served up a TERRIBLE candidate, who ran a TERRIBLE campaign
3) In addition to this, they actively subverted the Sanders campaign to ensure a Clinton victory
4) Despite the fact that they are almost wholly responsible for the Trump presidency, they continue to blame to people who were unenthusiastic about Hillary

 

[BKF]

Peace,



We're not really having a true debate because you don't seem to be familiar with how the Democratic establish/Clinton loyalists actively sabotaged the Sanders campaign. If you aren't familiar with that, you're not going ever understand why the Dems lost the election.

So your theory is that the DNC stop people from voting for Sanders during the primaries? You are right, we are not having a debate because you refuse to accept the truth.
The truth being that Sanders lost in most of the states where more than a select few people were able to vote but he won in states where only a select few people were able to vote.

 

[Complex]

Cornell being dogmatic...weakens the rest of his points...pick the lessor of two evils while continuing to fight for what you really want and continuing to work towards economic independence

I think he's coming from the stand point of tearing the shit apart and exposing people...and then building it back up

The democrats have no balls...even with Trump they barely have any. You have people out in the streets across the country protesting Trump and they still come off weak.

Imagine the Republicans with Hillary in office. They would have tried to impeach her within the first 30 days.

 

[zenman]

Stop the nonsense. He could have ran as the independent candidate but chose the safer route. Btw you didn't answer how the primary was stolen from Sanders.

Seth Rich was found to be the source of DNC emails leaked that showed how the DNC was undercutting Bernie's campaign and actually spying on his campaign for Hillary Clinton. The DNC is not supposed to act in favor of one candidate or another until primaries (Clear ethics violation). When the Emails were leaked the DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz resigned and without any hesitation became the leader of the Clinton campaign.
Incidentally while on his way to FBI head quarters Seth Rich was found shot to death with no motive. nothing stolen.

 

[D'Evils]

See you bring up another good example the Supreme Court that is very important

Yeap some Conversates sucked up and voted for Trump just because of the Supreme Court pick.

If he sucks as a President, which it's turning out to be true, they at least got their judge.

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Peace,

Seth Rich was found to be the source of DNC emails leaked that showed how the DNC was undercutting Bernie's campaign and actually spying on his campaign for Hillary Clinton. The DNC is not supposed to act in favor of one candidate or another until primaries (Clear ethics violation). When the Emails were leaked the DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz resigned and without any hesitation became the leader of the Clinton campaign.
Incidentally while on his way to FBI head quarters Seth Rich was found shot to death with no motive. nothing stolen.

This brother is as resistant to the truth as the average Trump supporter. The fact that so many Dems refuse to even acknowledge how we got here ensures that it will happen again.

 

[BKF]

Seth Rich was found to be the source of DNC emails leaked that showed how the DNC was undercutting Bernie's campaign and actually spying on his campaign for Hillary Clinton. The DNC is not supposed to act in favor of one candidate or another until primaries (Clear ethics violation). When the Emails were leaked the DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz resigned and without any hesitation became the leader of the Clinton campaign.
Incidentally while on his way to FBI head quarters Seth Rich was found shot to death with no motive. nothing stolen.

That doesn't answer the question. How was the primaries stolen from Sanders?
Sanders had very larges crowds of people (are you feeling the Bern) but he failed to translate that into votes at the poll. Do you think Obama didn't have the same problem when he ran against Hillary?

 

[4 Dimensional]

Peace,



He gets turned around a great deal more than he should, but Maher was intentionally trying to obfuscate his argument. What he should have said more directly was this:

1) Anyone would have been better than Trump; this is so obvious that it's hardly worth mentioning
2) The Democrats served up a TERRIBLE candidate, who ran a TERRIBLE campaign
3) In addition to this, they actively subverted the Sanders campaign to ensure a Clinton victory
4) Despite the fact that they are almost wholly responsible for the Trump presidency, they continue to blame to people who were unenthusiastic about Hillary

Exactly my point earlier of being able to speak eloquently and not saying anything. You made the points he could have made. It's not like Bill was saying stuff he couldnt answer. Cornell came off as trying to protect his ego. He can still make his arguments but there are certain truths about Trump we now know for sure that I don't believe would have been true for Hilary.

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Peace,

Trump supporter
It just goes to show that you'll say anything.

Your deliberate misrepresentation of my argument further supports the idea that you're cheerleading instead of engaging in an honest political discussion. Disagree with me if you like, but don't misquote me.

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Peace,

Exactly my point earlier of being able to speak eloquently and not saying anything. You made the points he could have made. It's not like Bill was saying stuff he couldnt answer. Cornell came off as trying to protect his ego. He can still make his arguments but there are certain truths about Trump we now know for sure that I don't believe would have been true for Hilary.

I agree but, for whatever reason, he gets extremely emotional when discussing these things. He ends up coming off like a crackpot but the steadfast refusal of these cac liberals to admit the true reason for their November loss would drive anyone nuts.

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Peace,

I said this in another post Sanders didn't really want to commit as a Democrat he just used a party for resources. Btw in 2015 of December some of Sanders people tried to illegally take a mailing list from the DNC so don't make him innocent in all of this.

You say this despite the fact that Sanders has been a part of the leftist conscious of the party for decades.

 

[BKF]

Peace,



You say this despite the fact that Sanders has been a part of the leftist conscious of the party for decades.

One foot in and one foot out.

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Peace,

When the anti voter or indifferent non voter resorts to the "well my vote wouldnt have mattered anyway because i live in a blue state" argument, they know they've lost the debate.

Agreed. That was an unfortunate default.

 

[easy_b]

Peace,



You say this despite the fact that Sanders has been a part of the leftist conscious of the party for decades.

Yes because he's Democrat when is convenient to him and agree with most of the things he is saying but you can't be dogging out the Democrat party but yet run to them when it's election time.

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Peace,

Yes because he's Democrat when is convenient to him and agree with most of the things he is saying but you can't be dogging out the Democrat party but yet run to them when it's election time.

I appreciate this comment from you because it clearly illustrates what the problem is (and why Trump is in office). You'd rather have a Democrat loyalist than someone who consistently advocates for the people of this country. How is this not the blue state version of 'Party Over Country?'

 

[slewdem100]

I think he's coming from the stand point of tearing the shit apart and exposing people...and then building it back up

The democrats have no balls...even with Trump they barely have any. You have people out in the streets across the country protesting Trump and they still come off weak.

Imagine the Republicans with Hillary in office. They would have tried to impeach her within the first 30 days.

Agree with all your points...I just think the Republicans are so dangerous right now that going with the "they are all the same" argument was not the strategically smart thing to do...as an intellectual, I think Cornell should have recognized that in the same way Noam Chomsky did