Contrarian Investor Sees Economic Crash in China

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Corporatists are bashing governmental stimulus world wide.

source: New York Times

SHANGHAI — James S. Chanos built one of the largest fortunes on Wall Street by foreseeing the collapse of Enron and other highflying companies whose stories were too good to be true.

Now Mr. Chanos, a wealthy hedge fund investor, is working to bust the myth of the biggest conglomerate of all: China Inc.

As most of the world bets on China to help lift the global economy out of recession, Mr. Chanos is warning that China’s hyperstimulated economy is headed for a crash, rather than the sustained boom that most economists predict. Its surging real estate sector, buoyed by a flood of speculative capital, looks like “Dubai times 1,000 — or worse,” he frets. He even suspects that Beijing is cooking its books, faking, among other things, its eye-popping growth rates of more than 8 percent.

“Bubbles are best identified by credit excesses, not valuation excesses,” he said in a recent appearance on CNBC. “And there’s no bigger credit excess than in China.” He is planning a speech later this month at the University of Oxford to drive home his point.

As America’s pre-eminent short-seller — he bets big money that companies’ strategies will fail — Mr. Chanos’s narrative runs counter to the prevailing wisdom on China. Most economists and governments expect Chinese growth momentum to continue this year, buoyed by what remains of a $586 billion government stimulus program that began last year, meant to lift exports and consumption among Chinese consumers.

Still, betting against China will not be easy. Because foreigners are restricted from investing in stocks listed inside China, Mr. Chanos has said he is searching for other ways to make his bets, including focusing on construction- and infrastructure-related companies that sell cement, coal, steel and iron ore.

Mr. Chanos, 51, whose hedge fund, Kynikos Associates, based in New York, has $6 billion under management, is hardly the only skeptic on China. But he is certainly the most prominent and vocal.

For all his record of prescience — in addition to predicting Enron’s demise, he also spotted the looming problems of Tyco International, the Boston Market restaurant chain and, more recently, home builders and some of the world’s biggest banks — his detractors say that he knows little or nothing about China or its economy and that his bearish calls should be ignored.

“I find it interesting that people who couldn’t spell China 10 years ago are now experts on China,” said Jim Rogers, who co-founded the Quantum Fund with George Soros and now lives in Singapore. “China is not in a bubble.”

Colleagues acknowledge that Mr. Chanos began studying China’s economy in earnest only last summer and sent out e-mail messages seeking expert opinion.

But he is tagging along with the bears, who see mounting evidence that China’s stimulus package and aggressive bank lending are creating artificial demand, raising the risk of a wave of nonperforming loans.

“In China, he seems to see the excesses, to the third and fourth power, that he’s been tilting against all these decades,” said Jim Grant, a longtime friend and the editor of Grant’s Interest Rate Observer, who is also bearish on China. “He homes in on the excesses of the markets and profits from them. That’s been his stock and trade.”

Mr. Chanos declined to be interviewed, citing his continuing research on China. But he has already been spreading the view that the China miracle is blinding investors to the risk that the country is producing far too much.

“The Chinese,” he warned in an interview in November with Politico.com, “are in danger of producing huge quantities of goods and products that they will be unable to sell.”

In December, he appeared on CNBC to discuss how he had already begun taking short positions, hoping to profit from a China collapse.

In recent months, a growing number of analysts, and some Chinese officials, have also warned that asset bubbles might emerge in China.

The nation’s huge stimulus program and record bank lending, estimated to have doubled last year from 2008, pumped billions of dollars into the economy, reigniting growth.

But many analysts now say that money, along with huge foreign inflows of “speculative capital,” has been funneled into the stock and real estate markets.

A result, they say, has been soaring prices and a resumption of the building boom that was under way in early 2008 — one that Mr. Chanos and others have called wasteful and overdone.

“It’s going to be a bust,” said Gordon G. Chang, whose book, “The Coming Collapse of China” (Random House), warned in 2001 of such a crash.

Friends and colleagues say Mr. Chanos is comfortable betting against the crowd — even if that crowd includes the likes of Warren E. Buffett and Wilbur L. Ross Jr., two other towering figures of the investment world.

A contrarian by nature, Mr. Chanos researches companies, pores over public filings to sift out clues to fraud and deceptive accounting, and then decides whether a stock is overvalued and ready for a fall. He has a staff of 26 in the firm’s offices in New York and London, searching for other China-related information.

“His record is impressive,” said Byron R. Wien, vice chairman of Blackstone Advisory Services. “He’s no fly-by-night charlatan. And I’m bullish on China.”

Mr. Chanos grew up in Milwaukee, one of three sons born to the owners of a chain of dry cleaners. At Yale, he was a pre-med student before switching to economics because of what he described as a passionate interest in the way markets operate.

His guiding philosophy was discovered in a book called “The Contrarian Investor,” according to an account of his life in “The Smartest Guys in the Room,” a book that chronicled Enron’s rise and downfall.

After college, he went to Wall Street, where he worked at a series of brokerage houses before starting his own firm in 1985, out of what he later said was frustration with the way Wall Street brokers promoted stocks.

At Kynikos Associates, he created a firm focused on betting on falling stock prices. His theories are summed up in testimony he gave to the House Committee on Energy and Commerce in 2002, after the Enron debacle. His firm, he said, looks for companies that appear to have overstated earnings, like Enron; were victims of a flawed business plan, like many Internet firms; or have been engaged in “outright fraud.”

That short-sellers are held in low regard by some on Wall Street, as well as Main Street, has long troubled him.

Short-sellers were blamed for intensifying market sell-offs in the fall 2008, before the practice was temporarily banned. Regulators are now trying to decide whether to restrict the practice.

Mr. Chanos often responds to critics of short-selling by pointing to the critical role they played in identifying problems at Enron, Boston Market and other “financial disasters” over the years.

“They are often the ones wearing the white hats when it comes to looking for and identifying the bad guys,” he has said.
 
I've been reading more articles about China's growth.

It has all the makings of a super Dubai or Las Vegas.

China, like Wall Street, like Dubai, like the real estate agents, like the Saudi sheiks, like all these people who are afraid of reality and trying to keep the bubble going...

it's going to be unforgettable when it all crashes.

All these people laughing at Detroit don't realize they are next in line.
 
I've been reading more articles about China's growth.

It has all the makings of a super Dubai or Las Vegas.

China, like Wall Street, like Dubai, like the real estate agents, like the Saudi sheiks, like all these people who are afraid of reality and trying to keep the bubble going...

it's going to be unforgettable when it all crashes.

All these people laughing at Detroit don't realize they are next in line.

China is a country that is and has long term plans to produce things. Actually creating tangible wealth. Dubai, like the oil rich Arab states are riding the wave of their natural resources, once the oil is gone, can they be like Switzerland or Luxemburg? At some point China could be like Japan and rely on their technological knowledge to sustain them (China does have a 4000 year history of technology). And China is building their infrastructure for long term prosperity, not to mention an endless pool of homogenous labor. I would bet on China over Dubai in the long term.
 
China is a country that is and has long term plans to produce things. Actually creating tangible wealth. Dubai, like the oil rich Arab states are riding the wave of their natural resources, once the oil is gone, can they be like Switzerland or Luxemburg? At some point China could be like Japan and rely on their technological knowledge to sustain them (China does have a 4000 year history of technology). And China is building their infrastructure for long term prosperity, not to mention an endless pool of homogenous labor. I would bet on China over Dubai in the long term.

I'm not saying China is Dubai. Dubai is doomed. But, China wants the look of a Dubai. All flash and little substance.

The problem, as I see it, is they hire these US/European architects, US/European engineers, US/European construction experts, with US/European financing, and US/European urban planning and expect to have the same unsustainable US/European lifestyle that the US/Europe will soon be restraining.

So, China builds unprofitable high-speed rail using unproven, untested techniques. They build low-density, car-oriented cities that no one can afford to live. They go on a skyscraper binge thinking massively high-density urban living is somehow better than leaving people on the farm.

China has no technological advantage over the US and certainly not over Japan. Just take a look at the kinds of products China produces (low-end maufacturing) and the kind it imports (high-end manufacturing). They produce pots and pans but import computers, robots, and lasers.

The government of China knows its manufacturing can be easily replaced by the Americans or Europeans. China wins on cost. As the recession deepens in the US and fuel costs rise, China will no longer have a cost advantage.

Guess what? Bye bye China miracle.
 
China has no technological advantage over the US and certainly not over Japan. Just take a look at the kinds of products China produces (low-end maufacturing) and the kind it imports (high-end manufacturing). They produce pots and pans but import computers, robots, and lasers.

good observation!

as for a "crash", I'm of the opinion that it really depends on whether they continue to peg their currency to the dollar. If they de-peg, they will take a hit initially, but consumption and standard of living amongst other chinese, would rise dramatically.

Asset bubbles? Possibly, the fact they have a 'stimulus' program leads me to believe they may be fudging some numbers somehere
 
Corporatists are bashing governmental stimulus world wide.

source: New York Times

SHANGHAI — James S. Chanos built one of the largest fortunes on Wall Street by foreseeing the collapse of Enron and other highflying companies whose stories were too good to be true.

Now Mr. Chanos, a wealthy hedge fund investor, is working to bust the myth of the biggest conglomerate of all: China Inc.

As most of the world bets on China to help lift the global economy out of recession, Mr. Chanos is warning that China’s hyperstimulated economy is headed for a crash, rather than the sustained boom that most economists predict. Its surging real estate sector, buoyed by a flood of speculative capital, looks like “Dubai times 1,000 — or worse,” he frets. He even suspects that Beijing is cooking its books, faking, among other things, its eye-popping growth rates of more than 8 percent.

“Bubbles are best identified by credit excesses, not valuation excesses,” he said in a recent appearance on CNBC. “And there’s no bigger credit excess than in China.” He is planning a speech later this month at the University of Oxford to drive home his point.

As America’s pre-eminent short-seller — he bets big money that companies’ strategies will fail — Mr. Chanos’s narrative runs counter to the prevailing wisdom on China. Most economists and governments expect Chinese growth momentum to continue this year, buoyed by what remains of a $586 billion government stimulus program that began last year, meant to lift exports and consumption among Chinese consumers.

Still, betting against China will not be easy. Because foreigners are restricted from investing in stocks listed inside China, Mr. Chanos has said he is searching for other ways to make his bets, including focusing on construction- and infrastructure-related companies that sell cement, coal, steel and iron ore.

Mr. Chanos, 51, whose hedge fund, Kynikos Associates, based in New York, has $6 billion under management, is hardly the only skeptic on China. But he is certainly the most prominent and vocal.

For all his record of prescience — in addition to predicting Enron’s demise, he also spotted the looming problems of Tyco International, the Boston Market restaurant chain and, more recently, home builders and some of the world’s biggest banks — his detractors say that he knows little or nothing about China or its economy and that his bearish calls should be ignored.

“I find it interesting that people who couldn’t spell China 10 years ago are now experts on China,” said Jim Rogers, who co-founded the Quantum Fund with George Soros and now lives in Singapore. “China is not in a bubble.”

Colleagues acknowledge that Mr. Chanos began studying China’s economy in earnest only last summer and sent out e-mail messages seeking expert opinion.

But he is tagging along with the bears, who see mounting evidence that China’s stimulus package and aggressive bank lending are creating artificial demand, raising the risk of a wave of nonperforming loans.

“In China, he seems to see the excesses, to the third and fourth power, that he’s been tilting against all these decades,” said Jim Grant, a longtime friend and the editor of Grant’s Interest Rate Observer, who is also bearish on China. “He homes in on the excesses of the markets and profits from them. That’s been his stock and trade.”

Mr. Chanos declined to be interviewed, citing his continuing research on China. But he has already been spreading the view that the China miracle is blinding investors to the risk that the country is producing far too much.

“The Chinese,” he warned in an interview in November with Politico.com, “are in danger of producing huge quantities of goods and products that they will be unable to sell.”

In December, he appeared on CNBC to discuss how he had already begun taking short positions, hoping to profit from a China collapse.

In recent months, a growing number of analysts, and some Chinese officials, have also warned that asset bubbles might emerge in China.

The nation’s huge stimulus program and record bank lending, estimated to have doubled last year from 2008, pumped billions of dollars into the economy, reigniting growth.

But many analysts now say that money, along with huge foreign inflows of “speculative capital,” has been funneled into the stock and real estate markets.

A result, they say, has been soaring prices and a resumption of the building boom that was under way in early 2008 — one that Mr. Chanos and others have called wasteful and overdone.

“It’s going to be a bust,” said Gordon G. Chang, whose book, “The Coming Collapse of China” (Random House), warned in 2001 of such a crash.

Friends and colleagues say Mr. Chanos is comfortable betting against the crowd — even if that crowd includes the likes of Warren E. Buffett and Wilbur L. Ross Jr., two other towering figures of the investment world.

A contrarian by nature, Mr. Chanos researches companies, pores over public filings to sift out clues to fraud and deceptive accounting, and then decides whether a stock is overvalued and ready for a fall. He has a staff of 26 in the firm’s offices in New York and London, searching for other China-related information.

“His record is impressive,” said Byron R. Wien, vice chairman of Blackstone Advisory Services. “He’s no fly-by-night charlatan. And I’m bullish on China.”

Mr. Chanos grew up in Milwaukee, one of three sons born to the owners of a chain of dry cleaners. At Yale, he was a pre-med student before switching to economics because of what he described as a passionate interest in the way markets operate.

His guiding philosophy was discovered in a book called “The Contrarian Investor,” according to an account of his life in “The Smartest Guys in the Room,” a book that chronicled Enron’s rise and downfall.

After college, he went to Wall Street, where he worked at a series of brokerage houses before starting his own firm in 1985, out of what he later said was frustration with the way Wall Street brokers promoted stocks.

At Kynikos Associates, he created a firm focused on betting on falling stock prices. His theories are summed up in testimony he gave to the House Committee on Energy and Commerce in 2002, after the Enron debacle. His firm, he said, looks for companies that appear to have overstated earnings, like Enron; were victims of a flawed business plan, like many Internet firms; or have been engaged in “outright fraud.”

That short-sellers are held in low regard by some on Wall Street, as well as Main Street, has long troubled him.

Short-sellers were blamed for intensifying market sell-offs in the fall 2008, before the practice was temporarily banned. Regulators are now trying to decide whether to restrict the practice.

Mr. Chanos often responds to critics of short-selling by pointing to the critical role they played in identifying problems at Enron, Boston Market and other “financial disasters” over the years.

“They are often the ones wearing the white hats when it comes to looking for and identifying the bad guys,” he has said.
YEP AND SO USHER IN WORLD WAR 3.BECAUSE CHINA IS GONNA BLAME THE US FOR ALL OF ITS WOES.CHINA PRETTY MUCH NEEDS DEPOPULATION ANYWAY. WAR WITH THE US OVER SOCIAL ISSUES WOULD BE THE GIVEN EXCUSE.
 
I'm not saying China is Dubai. Dubai is doomed. But, China wants the look of a Dubai. All flash and little substance.

The problem, as I see it, is they hire these US/European architects, US/European engineers, US/European construction experts, with US/European financing, and US/European urban planning and expect to have the same unsustainable US/European lifestyle that the US/Europe will soon be restraining.

So, China builds unprofitable high-speed rail using unproven, untested techniques. They build low-density, car-oriented cities that no one can afford to live. They go on a skyscraper binge thinking massively high-density urban living is somehow better than leaving people on the farm.

China has no technological advantage over the US and certainly not over Japan. Just take a look at the kinds of products China produces (low-end maufacturing) and the kind it imports (high-end manufacturing). They produce pots and pans but import computers, robots, and lasers.

The government of China knows its manufacturing can be easily replaced by the Americans or Europeans. China wins on cost. As the recession deepens in the US and fuel costs rise, China will no longer have a cost advantage.

Guess what? Bye bye China miracle.
IF BARRELS OF OIL STAY BELOW MARKET LEVEL CHINA IS STILL IN IT TO WIN IT.AS LONG AS OIL DONT REACHES A HUNDRED PER BARREL AND GASOLINE OVER $3.00 PER GALLON OF GAS. THE MIRACLE IS STILL PRETTY MUCH ALIVE.MAN YOU MUST THINK THE UNITED STATES AINT GONNA SEE THAT DAY ALSO.IF YOU THINK OTHERWISE YOU ARE DELUSIONAL AT BEST.THE UNITED STATES IS FACING INFLATION RIGHT NOW AS I SPEAK.HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT SHOE SIZE DOES IT FIT WELL
 
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IF BARRELS OF OIL STAY BELOW MARKET LEVEL CHINA IS STILL IN IT TO WIN IT.AS LONG AS OIL DONT REACHES A HUNDRED PER BARREL AND GASOLINE OVER $3.00 PER GALLON OF GAS. THE MIRACLE IS STILL PRETTY MUCH ALIVE.MAN YOU MUST THINK THE UNITED STATES AINT GONNA SEE THAT DAY ALSO.IF YOU DONT THINK THAT YOU ARE DELUSIONAL AT BEST.THE UNITED STATES IS FACING INFLATION RIGHT NOW AS I SPEAK.

China is going to lose no matter what the price of oil is.

But, all oil-importing nations are facing this dilemma. For hyper-growth states like Chna, it is going to be abrupt, compared to mature ones like the United States.

Then again, the United States consumes so much of the world's oil, it will be in a special hell because of its profligate ways.

Either way, there are too many people in the US and China burning oil for no productive purpose for this to last much longer (say within 20 years).

(american per capita consumes - 3.6 gallons of fuel/day and dropping)
(chinese per capita consumes - .21 gallon of fuel/day and growing)

At China's current growth (about 8%), it will hit about .42 in 9 years. That would mean massive unemployment (30%+) in the United States and probably starvation.

Right now, growth is a zero-sum game. Either China will suffer or the United States will.
 
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China is going to lose no matter what the price of oil is.

But, all oil-importing nations are facing this dilemma. For hyper-growth states like Chna, it is going to be abrupt, compared to mature ones like the United States.

Then again, the United States consumes so much of the world's oil, it will be in a special hell because of its profligate ways.

Either way, there are too many people in the US and China burning oil for no productive purpose for this to last much longer (say within 20 years).

Stake your claim on the best land you can find (strategic, defensible, productive, convenient), because when this hits, it's going to be ugly.

(american per capita consumes - 3.6 gallons of fuel/day and dropping)
(chinese per capita consumes - .21 gallon of fuel/day and growing)
the united states is gonna lose to. regardless as well.its already in the cards and written in stone.the united states geographically and strategically is at a disadvantage when its come to CHINA.a majority of the worlds proven energy resources that is under the ground on earth is located in EURASIA.via IRAN, TURKMENISTAN,RUSSIA.AZERBIJAN,SAUDIA ARABIA,UZBEKISTAN, EAST SIBERIAN FIELDS,CASPIEN SEA BASIN is strategically located in close to ASIA.with rising china they pretty much dont need US MARKETS NO MORE .TO THEM ITS LIKE RIGHT THERE AT HOME.GO LOOK AT THE WORLD MAP and follow were all the oil pipeline developments are going to.AND DONT EVEN BRING UP MILITARY BASES.CAUSE PRETTY SOON IN A MINUTE THE US IS GONNA HAVE TO CLOSE ALL OF THEM because a weak dollar is not gonna be able to finance all of that.
 
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the united states is gonna lose to. regardless as well.its already in the cards and written in stone.the united states geographically and strategically is at a disadvantage when its come to CHINA.a majority of the worlds proven energy resources that is under the ground on earth is located in EURASIA.via IRAN, TURKMENISTAN,RUSSIA.AZERBIJAN,SAUDIA ARABIA,UZBEKISTAN, EAST SIBERIAN FIELDS,CASPIEN SEA BASIN is strategically located in close to ASIA.with rising china they pretty much dont need US MARKETS NO MORE .TO THEM ITS LIKE RIGHT THERE AT HOME.GO LOOK AT THE WORLD MAP and follow were all the oil pipeline developments are going to.AND DONT EVEN BRING UP MILITARY BASES.CAUSE PRETTY SOON IN A MINUTE THE US IS GONNA HAVE TO CLOSE ALL OF THEM because a weak dollar is not gonna be able to finance all of that.

I guess it's setting the stage for World War...

US/Europe/Australia/Japan/India vs. Russia/China/Iran

I wonder who would win (or would it be Armageddon)?
 
I guess it's setting the stage for World War...

US/Europe/Australia/Japan/India vs. Russia/China/Iran

I wonder who would win (or would it be Armageddon)?

IF THIS IS THE SCENARIO YOU ARE PICTURING OF THE WORLD SOVERN NATIONS AT CONFLICT AND WAR.PLEASE SCRATCH OUT JAPAN AND INDIA.BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT GONNA ALIGN WITH THE US AND EUROPE IN AN ASIAN CONFLICT.AUSTRALIA IS A LONESOME SITTING DUCK OF THE COAST OF ASIA INTO OCEANIA THAT DEPENDS ON SHIP BOUND CRUDES OF OIL FROM BRITIAN VIA (BP,ROYAL DUTCH SHELL).TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION NOBODY IS GONNA WIN.IT WOULD PROBABLY BE NUCLEAR HOLOCOST,MAD(MUTUAL ASSURED DESTRUCTION)ON BOTH SIDES.......BUT THE WAY IT IS LOOKING NOW GIVES ME A INDICATION THAT IT IS GONNA BE SCO VS NATO.HOPE THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION
 
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IF THIS IS THE SCENARIO YOU ARE PICTURING OF THE THE WORLD SOVEIRN NATIONS AT CONFLICT AND WAR.PLEASE SCRATCH OUT JAPAN AND INDIA.BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT GONNA ALIGN WITH THE US AND EUROPE IN AN ASIAN CONFLICT.AUSTRALIA IS A LONESOME SITTING DUCK OF THE COAST OF ASIA INTO OCEANIA THAT DEPENDS ON SHIP BOUND CRUDES OF OIL FROM BRITIAN VIA (BP,ROYAL DUTCH SHELL).TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION NOBODY IS GONNA WIN.IT WOULD PROBABLY BE NUCLEAR HOLOCOST,MAD(MUTUAL ASSURED DESTRUCTION)ON BOTH SIDES.......BUT THE WAY IT IS LOOKING NOW GIVES ME A INDICATION THAT IT IS GONNA BE SCO VS NATO.HOPE THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION

Well, I would say the US military is enemy to everyone on the planet.

Each US soldier consumes 170 gallons of OIL per DAY!

(395,000 barrels/100,000 soldiers * 42 gallons/barrel = 165.9)

Source

“Because DOD’s consumption of oil represents the highest priority of all uses, there will be no fundamental limits to DOD’s fuel supply for many, many decades.”

These fools will destroy the whole world before they give up their oil.

I wouldn't be surprised if they pre-emptively attacked Russia and China to try and take out their offensive military capabilities just to get the rest of the world's oil for themselves.

Man, this is depressing. I'm going to bed.
 
<font size="5"><center>
China: the coming costs of a superbubble</font size>
<font size="4">

China may seem to have defied the recession and
the laws of economics. It hasn't. When China's
bubble bursts, the global impact will be
severe, spiking US interest rates.</font size></center>


csmlogo_179x46.gif

By Vitaliy N. Katsenelson
March 16, 2010


The world looks at China with envy. China’s economy grew 8.7 percent last year, while the world economy contracted by 2.2 percent. It seems that Chinese “Confucian capitalism” – a market economy powered by 1.3 billion people and guided by an authoritarian regime that can pull levers at will – is superior to our touchy-feely democracy and capitalism. But the grass on China’s side of the fence is not as green as it appears.

In fact, China’s defiance of the global recession is not a miracle – it’s a superbubble. When it deflates, it will spell big trouble for all of us.


To understand the Chinese economy, consider three distinct periods:

  • “Late-stage growth obesity” (the decade prior to 2008);

  • “You lie!” (the time of the financial crisis); and finally,

  • “Steroids ’R’ Us” (from the end of the financial crisis to today).


<font size="3">Late-stage growth obesity</font size>

About a decade ago, the Chinese government chose a policy of growth at any cost. China’s leaders see strong gross domestic product (GDP) growth not just as bragging rights, but as essential for political survival and national stability.

Because China lacks the social safety net of the developed world, unemployed people aren’t just inconvenienced by the loss of their jobs, they starve; and hungry people don’t complain, they riot and cause political unrest.

Remember the 1994 movie “Speed”? A young cop (Keanu Reeves) had to save passengers on a bus that would explode if its speed dropped below 50 m.p.h. Well, China is like that bus with 1.3 billion people aboard. If the Communist Party can’t keep the economy growing at a fast clip, the result will be catastrophic.

To achieve high growth, China kept its currency, the renminbi, at artificially low levels against the dollar. This helped already cheap Chinese-made goods become even cheaper. China turned into a significant exporter to the developed economies.

Normally, if free-market economic forces were at work, the renminbi would have appreciated and the US dollar would have declined. However, had China let this occur, demand for its products would have declined, and its economy wouldn’t have grown at roughly 10 percent a year, which it did during the past decade.

The more China sold to the United States, the more dollars it accumulated, and thus the more US Treasuries it bought, driving our interest rates down. US consumers responded to these cheap goods and cheap home loans by going on a buying binge.

However, companies and countries that grow at very high rates for a long time will inevitably suffer from late-stage growth obesity. Consider Starbucks: In 1999, it had 2,000 stores and was adding 1.8 stores a day. In 2007, when it had 10,000 stores, it had to open 5.5 stores a day in a desperate bid to keep growth rates up. This resulted in poor decisions and poor quality – a recipe for disaster.

In China, political pressure for full employment has led to similar late-stage growth obesity. In 2005, China built the largest shopping mall in the world, the New South China Mall: Today it’s 99 percent vacant. China also built up a lavish district in a city called Ordos: Today, it’s a ghost town.


<font size="3">You lie!</font size>

All good things come to an end, and great things come to an end with a bang. When the financial meltdown erupted in 2008, US and global banks started dropping like flies. Countries everywhere suffered contraction.

Even China.

During the crisis, Chinese exports were down more than 25 percent, tonnage of goods shipped through railroads was down by double digits, and electricity use plummeted.

Yet Beijing insisted that China had magically sustained 6 to 8 percent growth.

China lies. It goes to great lengths to maintain appearances, including censoring media and jailing those who write antigovernment articles. That’s why we have to rely on hard data instead.


<font size="3">Steroids ‘R’ Us</font size>

Today the global economy is stabilizing, thanks to Uncle Sam and other “uncles” around the world. But the consumers of Chinese-made goods are still in debt, unemployment is high, and banks aren’t lending. You might think the Chinese economy would be growing at a lower rate. But no, it is growing again at nearly 10 percent, as though the financial crisis never occurred.

Though this growth appears to be authentic – electricity consumption is back up – it is not sustainable growth, because it is based on an unprecedented stimulus package and extraordinary government involvement in the economy.

In the midst of the financial crisis, in late 2008, Beijing fire-hosed a $568 billion stimulus into the Chinese economy. That’s enormous! As a percentage of GDP, it would be like a $2 trillion stimulus in America, nearly triple the size of the one Congress passed last year.​

It gets even more interesting. Unlike Western democracies, whose central banks can pump a lot of money into the financial system but can’t force banks to lend or consumers and corporations to spend, China can achieve both at lightning speed.

The government controls the banks, so it can make them lend, and it can force state-owned enterprises (one-third of the economy) to borrow and to spend. Also, because the rule of law and human and property rights are still underdeveloped, China can spend infrastructure project money very fast – if a school is in the way of a road the government wants to build, it becomes a casualty for the greater good.

Government is horrible at allocating large amounts of capital, especially at the speed it is done in China. Political decisions (driven by the goal of full employment) are often uneconomical, and corruption and cronyism result in projects that destroy value.

To maintain high employment, China has poured money into infrastructure and real estate projects. This explains why, in 2009, new floor space doubled and residential real estate prices surged 25 percent. This also explains why the Chinese keep building new skyscrapers even though existing ones are still vacant.


The enormous stimulus has exacerbated problems that already existed, threatening to turn China into a less shiny but more drastic version of debt-riddled Dubai, United Arab Emirates.​


<font size="3">What Happens in China, Doesn't Stay in China</font size>

What happens in China doesn’t stay in China. A meltdown there – or even a slowdown – would have severe consequences for the rest of the world.

It will tank the commodity markets. Demand for industrial goods will fall off the cliff. Finally, Chinese appetite for our fine currency will diminish, driving the dollar lower against the renminbi and boosting our interest rates higher. No more 5 percent mortgages and 6 percent car loans.


<font size="3">No shortcuts to greatness</font size>

We look at China and are mesmerized by its 1.3 billion people, its achievements of the past decade, its recent economic resiliency, and its ability to achieve spectacular results on the fly. But we have to remember that economic bubbles are usually just a good thing taken too far. The Chinese economy is no exception. Its long-term future may be bright, but in the short run we’ve got a bubble on our hands.

Everyone wants a shortcut to greatness, but there isn’t one. China has been trying to bend the laws of economics for a while, and with the control it exerts over its economy it may seem that it’s succeeded.

But this is only a temporary mirage, which must be followed by a painful reality. No, there is no shortcut to greatness – not in personal life, not in politics, and not in economics.

Vitaliy N. Katsenelson is a portfolio manager/director of research at Investment Management Associates in Denver. He is the author of “Active Value Investing: Making Money in Range-Bound Markets.”


http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2010/0316/China-the-coming-costs-of-a-superbubble
 
YEP AND SO USHER IN WORLD WAR 3.BECAUSE CHINA IS GONNA BLAME THE US FOR ALL OF ITS WOES.CHINA PRETTY MUCH NEEDS DEPOPULATION ANYWAY. WAR WITH THE US OVER SOCIAL ISSUES WOULD BE THE GIVEN EXCUSE.


Point to an instance when China is the military aggressor. The only time they do use military force is when they think their sovereign territories are being threatened. China considers Taiwan, Nepal and the far north western provinces part of China. Not justifying them, however history doesn't show China as an expansionist power. China's modest military doesn't have evidence of war mongering, unlike the United States.....
 
Wait til they figure out we can't pay them back :D

It's gone be 1 billion ticked-off Chinese that want they $$$

The funny thing is, the Chinese don't want us to pay them back.

Think about it.

If the US printed the dollars necessary to meet their obligations, it would devalue the currency, force the Chinese currency higher and KILL CHINA EXPORTS.

Say Bye Bye to China miracle.

It is IMPOSSIBLE for the US to default on its debt. Why? It can always print more dollars.

China has no choice other than to continue buying US debt because if it stops, interest rates will rise in the US. That means US investment becomes attractive again, more than China.

All those businesses investing in China would leave to invest in the US to get those higher interest rates.

That means China can no longer sell to the US and they cannot get US technology nor Middle East oil.

China is in a NO-WIN situation. But, it is one they created.
 
It is IMPOSSIBLE for the US to default on its debt. Why? It can always print more dollars.

China has no choice other than to continue buying US debt because if it stops, interest rates will rise in the US. That means US investment becomes attractive again, more than China.

This is, by far, the most interesting debate on the Net. But on principle, "printing" dollars is an illegitimate form of defaulting on debt.

That means China can no longer sell to the US and they cannot get US technology nor Middle East oil.

China is in a NO-WIN situation. But, it is one they created.

It's odd but I see a no-win situation for the people of this country also. We are bleeding jobs to multi-national corps and savings because of these policies.

So, we enjoy prosperity without work? illogical, but incredible, at the same time
 
This is, by far, the most interesting debate on the Net. But on principle, "printing" dollars is an illegitimate form of defaulting on debt.



It's odd but I see a no-win situation for the people of this country also. We are bleeding jobs to multi-national corps and savings because of these policies.

So, we enjoy prosperity without work? illogical, but incredible, at the same time

The US is in the same NO-WIN situation as China because they both have government-dominated, highly-controlled, micro-managed economies.

If the people in the United States ever stood up to the government and said "ENOUGH!" they would have a chance at some kind of economic stability and prosperity.

But, I don't believe people in this nation have the courage.
 
The US is in the same NO-WIN situation as China because they both have government-dominated, highly-controlled, micro-managed economies.

If the people in the United States ever stood up to the government and said "ENOUGH!" they would have a chance at some kind of economic stability and prosperity.

But, I don't believe people in this nation have the courage.
very true.most american people dont have the political courage to do so.a majority is overwhelmed with hollywood pop culture.dont expect people who follow hollywood pop culture to make any noise and to be involved in a quote on quote revolution.
 
Well, I would say the US military is enemy to everyone on the planet.

Each US soldier consumes 170 gallons of OIL per DAY!

(395,000 barrels/100,000 soldiers * 42 gallons/barrel = 165.9)

Source

“Because DOD’s consumption of oil represents the highest priority of all uses, there will be no fundamental limits to DOD’s fuel supply for many, many decades.”

These fools will destroy the whole world before they give up their oil.

I wouldn't be surprised if they pre-emptively attacked Russia and China to try and take out their offensive military capabilities just to get the rest of the world's oil for themselves.

Man, this is depressing. I'm going to bed.


Your mathematics is way off. The US military has 1.4 million men. The US Army has 660 000 (33 divisions); the US Navy has 400 000, the US Airforce has another 400 000. Furthermore, I am not sure if this oil consumption figure accounts for the 50 National Guard Armies which increase the size of the US military by several million more men. By my calculation, the consumption of oil by the US military be day owuld 2.9 gallons per soldier.
 
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