'Coach Snoop Dogg' Kicks Off a Fuss

QueEx

Rising Star
Super Moderator
<font size="6"><center>Rapper Clears the Field</font size></center>

<font size="5"><center>Snoop Dogg uses a tricked-out bus and star power
to lure kids to his new league. Some say he's made
an end run around existing teams.</font size>



19019542.jpg
19019512.jpg

(LEFT) PLAYMAKER: Snoop Dogg coaches kids, including his son. He says his new football league will better
serve poorer areas. (Robert Gauthier / LAT); (RIGHT) READY TO PLAY: Snoop Dogg, whose real name is Calvin Broadus, works with young players at a practice in Diamond Bar. He says that when he played youth football in Long Beach, it "taught me how to work with other kids, how to have a relationship, how to learn." (Robert Gauthier / LAT)</center>



Los Angeles Times
By Steven Barrie-Anthony, Times Staff Writer
August 18, 2005

The sun is setting a burnished orange, and three groups of children jog across the football field in their pads and helmets to the sideline. It's quitting time on a pleasant summer evening, no school for a while yet, but 10-year-old Xavier Bernal isn't grinning.

For more than four decades, this field at Rowland High School in Rowland Heights has teemed with football players ages 5 to 14, so many jostling Rowland Raiders that each of the program's age divisions overran the next. But last year's nine squads have dwindled to three, and the usually robust cheerleading squad has gone from 80 girls to nine.

To hear Xavier tell it, blame falls squarely on the youth football league's most famous and controversial former coach.

"I'm mad at Coach Snoop," he says. "He was so cool; he told me to play my heart out and to play everything I've got. But now I just want to ask him, why did he take all our players?"

Walking with Xavier toward the parking lot, parents and coaches describe rapper Snoop Dogg as a modern-day Pied Piper luring football players with his song "Drop It Like It's Hot" blasting from a school bus pimped out with enough bass, TV screens and gadgetry to persuade any kid to sell out the old for the new.

<center>
19028735.jpg

SPARSE TURNOUT: Members of the Rowland Raiders practice in
Rowland Heights. The program has struggled to retain its numbers after the
Snoop Youth Football League lured away many players. The Raiders aren't
the only team in the Orange County Junior All-American Football Conference
to lose players. Long Beach and Compton teams, also competing with the
new league, report similar hemorrhaging. (Gina Ferazzi / LAT)</center>


Snoop rocked the youth football world two years ago when he volunteered as a Rowland Raiders "daddy coach," and then again last month when he broke from the franchise to start his own conference. The Raiders aren't the only team in the Orange County Junior All-American Football Conference to feel the screws; Long Beach and Compton teams, also in competition with Snoop's new league, report similar hemorrhaging.

And as Snoop talks of expanding the Snoop Youth Football League beyond its initial eight Southern California chapters, parents and coaches in the old conference accuse him and his agents of mounting a campaign of sabotage and misinformation.

Snoop's camp calls the furor sour grapes over its new league, which it says will be more effective and will better serve cash-strapped urban communities.

What's clear is that there's more at stake than football: Both practical goals, such as gang prevention and scholastic achievement, and more amorphous concepts, such as tradition and community, pervade dialogue at either end.

To understand Xavier Bernal's gripe, first enter a world where many families stick with teams for generations and involvement rarely ends with graduation from the program. Xavier's mother spent her girlhood afternoons cheerleading for the Rowland Raiders and later became the cheer coach and league treasurer. His grandfather has been coach, chapter president and now conference commissioner.

For Xavier and others, games are part competition, part family reunion.

Snoop, whose real name is Calvin Broadus, also has deep roots in youth football. He remembers the life lessons he learned while playing for the Long Beach Poly Junior Jackrabbits.

"It taught me how to work with other kids," he says, "how to have a relationship, how to learn. My coach taught me about religion as well as football, about keeping God in everything we did."

So two years ago, with Snoop's two boys old enough to play league ball, he enrolled them in the Rowland Raiders program, signed on as an offensive coordinator and weathered the media hullabaloo that ensued.

League Commissioner Bob Barna received "some e-mails from parents, saying, 'How dare you let somebody like that be with our youth?' " Barna says. "But did he bring anything negative? No. He acted like a dad."

A very cool dad. Coach Snoop was the talk of football fields and playgrounds throughout the Southland. Then, as the season came to a close, some of the league's all-stars received recruitment calls from the rapper, asking them to join the Raiders the next year. The league allows 15% of a team's players to come from outside its immediate area, Barna says, and a team can recruit without limit in cities where no team exists.

Snoop took full advantage, nabbing players like Derrick Marbrough from Long Beach. "I played against him, and then he wanted me on his team, so he called my mom," says Derrick, 11. "I switched teams."

"It was so cool," remembers Duon Rucker, who also came to the Rowland Raiders from Long Beach as a 10-year-old last year. "Everybody at school was all over me, 'Are you about to go with Snoop? Can you get me his autograph?' Everybody wanted to get a picture of me and him together."

And then there was the bus.

"It's a mini-school bus," Derrick says, "and it had TVs in it where we watched our games from last week."

"Yeah," Duon enthuses, "and everywhere we went, you could hear us coming down the street, we had like hydraulics from all the bass! We listened to Snoop's music — our theme song was 'Drop It Like It's Hot.' "

Last year's Rowland Raiders team of 8- to 10-year-olds, with Snoop as offensive and defensive coordinator and his older son playing quarterback, steamrolled through the season unbeaten. At the team's awards banquet, the coach gave each player a DVD of team games with a special Snoop Dogg tribute to the Raiders bumping in the background.

Then, for the second year in a row, Snoop culled the best players for an all-star team to represent the Rowland Raiders in the youth football postseason. They bused out to play other California all-star teams before heading to Jacksonville, Fla., to compete in the final competition and brainchild of their coach — the "Snooperbowl" — a day before Super Bowl XXXIX.

More than 15,000 fans crowded in to watch the Raiders play the Jacksonville Junior All Stars (or perhaps to watch halftime performer Snoop), and the team from Rowland didn't disappoint. On the way home, Raiders all-stars lugged custom trophies donated by Tiffany & Co.

"This is a gentleman who wants it all, who wants the best kids so he can win the championship," says Frank Romero, president of the Raiders. "He didn't go through the chain of command like he was supposed to. He had the say-so of everything. It was a very difficult year."

Nobody accuses Snoop of being a derelict coach; far from it. Most grumblers say that Snoop was overly generous and doted on his team, giving them new jerseys, letterman jackets, trophies and championship rings, even though chapter rules stipulate that if any team gets new equipment, every team does, Romero says.

"After he won his first league championship game, he went out and bought scooters for everybody," Romero says. "He never said anything to the league, never asked permission. I had parents calling me all the time, asking, 'How come Snoop Dogg's team is getting this?' "

Snoop had complaints of his own. The residency requirements for joining teams seemed too strict, especially when they prevented kids from playing alongside friends and family.

"My son lives in Diamond Bar," says Shanté Broadus, Snoop's wife, "but his cousin lives in Fontana, so he couldn't come and play. Sometimes boys just want to be together."

The league fees also bothered Snoop; $175 per child for the Rowland Raiders program (other league chapters charge more) precludes poor families from participating, he says, and those families have trouble driving their children to distant fields for away games.

"It's so easy for a kid to join a gang, to do drugs," Snoop says. "We should make it that easy to be involved in football and academics."

About midway through the 2004 season, it hit Snoop.

"I don't have to go against the system," he remembers thinking. "The best thing to do would be to create my own league, as opposed to me being used and them getting a lot of the credit." It would be "mine," he says. "Snoop began it."

After the season, top players in the Orange County conference received phone calls asking them to join the Snoop Youth Football League, which has no pesky residence requirements and cheaper rates — $100 for the first child in a family, half price for any others, incidentals like cleats and pads included.

Many families and even some coaches hopped aboard, while chapter loyalists wondered aloud if last season's pageantry had been orchestrated to "steal our kids."

"I think what [Snoop] did is just so shallow," says Sandy Gonzales, a sales executive who has two boys on Rowland Raiders football squads and a girl in cheerleading. "He came here just so that he could take away from us what we'd taken many years to establish."

In Compton, chapter President Toni Smith fielded calls from confused parents "asking me why the Compton Titans have folded and are now the Compton Vikings," she says. The Vikings are the local Snoop chapter. The Titans, in fact, are still fielding teams. But Compton's usual 12 teams are down to five — and Smith's son is among the kids left without a squad.

Even Snoop's alma mater, the Long Beach Poly Junior Jackrabbits, is struggling to stay afloat. "This has affected us in a terrible way," says Sarah L. Morrison, chapter president for 27 years. "I don't know if our program will exist after this season."

The Jackrabbits, part of the Orange County conference, are officially known as the Long Beach Poly Junior Athletic Assn., while the Snoop chapter registered as the Long Beach Poly Youth Athletic Assn.

"Only one word is different," says Morrison, who has written a letter asking that Snoop change his chapter's name. "They advertise in the paper, and who's going to notice that small word?"

The charge that Orange County youth football is too expensive is smoke and mirrors, Morrison says. "Our organization has never turned a kid away who cannot pay," she says. "We try to get donations for over half the kids who come to us. I have paid out of my own pocket for kids to play."

In Rowland Heights, not everyone mourns the loss of Coach Snoop.

"Snoop was more focused on wanting to win than on teaching the kids the game," says Angelena Moore, a Raiders parent. "He focused more on kids he brought in from Los Angeles, Fullerton and Rialto. The rest of the kids got pushed off to the side."

Not true, says Al Brown, Snoop's onetime fellow Rowland Raiders coach and now head of football operations for Snoop's league. "It was equal opportunity for everybody."

Orange County youth football coaches point out that although they welcome any kid, the Snoop Youth Football League holds tryouts to sign up the best players. And making kids compete for spots promotes hurt feelings rather than community and camaraderie, they say.

Brown counters that tryouts are a safety measure to make sure that kids who shouldn't play tackle football don't.

Whether or not he's driven by winning, Raiders teammates who followed Snoop to the new league paint a picture of a loving coach who serves on and off the field as a mentor and pal.

"We would go over to Snoop's house," says Duon Rucker. "We'd play Madden [football video game] tournaments. We'd play hide and seek and [joke] with his wife, and then steal candy from coach when he was recording in his studio. He'd just laugh. But if we ever said something mean to one of our teammates, coach would get mad."

Snoop is a major figure in 11-year-old Travion Hall's life, says his mom, Tracey Wooben.

"All Trey had was me; his dad wasn't around," she said. "But last year, Trey was gone every weekend over at Snoop's house. That gave him the opportunity to see how it was to stay away from home, and he had a ball. These kids are having the experience of a lifetime."

Even so, it wasn't easy to leave the league Trey had played in since he was 6, Wooben says. "When you start your kid off somewhere, you don't want to switch them. But I finally gave in."

As Snoop's league gains a higher profile, celebrities and corporate sponsors jostle for involvement. The rapper will stage a benefit concert Aug. 25 with the Red Hot Chili Peppers and Ice Cube at the Greek Theatre, with all proceeds to be donated to the Snoop Youth Football League. ("Snoop is the Phil Jackson of youth football coaches," Ice Cube says. "He ain't going to accept nothing but a winner.")

League sponsors include Amp'd Mobile, a soon-to-debut cellphone provider that's offering cash sponsorship in the mid-six figures and has talked about giving phones to Snoop's players. Snoop's Rowland Raiders team from last year will soon star in its own video game, and Sony is making a movie called "Coach Snoop," starring: Snoop.

Willie McGinest, linebacker for the New England Patriots — who played with Snoop on the Junior Jackrabbits — has donated money and coaching time to Snoop's Long Beach chapter.

"This is a chance for us to save our community and to get our kids back," he says. Youth football was "my base, my starting point, my foundation. It's a big part of who I am today."

Daylon McCutcheon of the Cleveland Browns played for the Rowland Raiders and has "mixed emotions" about the turn taken by the Southern California youth football world. On the one hand, he supports Snoop's efforts to expand access; on the other, he says, "I have a son who's 2 1/2 , and I've dreamt about seeing him in a Rowland Raiders uniform."

Snoop's youngest son, 8-year-old Cordell Broadus, is slated to be the rapper's star quarterback this year, and in his first interview, Cordell let out a shocker.

"Football?" he said. "Well, I like basketball, really. I'm not going to the NFL. I'm going to the NBA."

It might be understandable if at that moment Southland youth basketball commissioners felt their hearts skip a beat.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-et-snoop18aug18,0,7156090.story?coll=la-home-headlines
 
Shit think about it, how many inner city families have 150 laying around for their kid to play football? Snoop is doing good IMHO.

Not many other celebs are doing half what he is doing, I think he really is trying to make a difference and is sincere.

Its always politcs in those "little league" sports anyway. Parents complain their kid aint playing, complain about other teams having older kids, yada yada yada.

Do ya dam thing snoop, proves you can be around and do for kids without being on some wacko jacko bull.
 
YEAH! Now more kids can be like Snoop when they grow up.

How does somebody like this asshole get to be a role model? He is the definition of a "bitches and hoes" rapper, he's made two pornos, raps about drugs and gangs....

It's cool to see people doing things for kids, but it's sad to see people worship celebrity to the point that nobody is willing to call it what it is.

What happened to the "hit" that was out on him? Get some followthrough!
 
The Black HHH said:
YEAH! Now more kids can be like Snoop when they grow up.

How does somebody like this asshole get to be a role model? He is the definition of a "bitches and hoes" rapper, he's made two pornos, raps about drugs and gangs....

It's cool to see people doing things for kids, but it's sad to see people worship celebrity to the point that nobody is willing to call it what it is.

What happened to the "hit" that was out on him? Get some followthrough!

Snoop is doing something positive for his community and people are still hating. Its sad that people hate rappers so much that they can't do something positive without someone wishing them dead. Maybe if more rappers did things like this people would understand that it is just art. It is not reality. Snoop aint a pimp and a gangsta . Snoop coach football and spend time with his son. Everybody else in the world gets to do their job and go home. Their job doesn't define them they are still people. But rappers have to be thugged out gangsta pimps 24 seven 365. Give me a break rappers are people too they just rap for a living.

Snoop is showing ya'll he is not the character he uses to sell records. He is a real person that cares about his family and community. That is some positive shit and I support the brother.
 
Temujin said:
Snoop is doing something positive for his community and people are still hating. Its sad that people hate rappers so much that they can't do something positive without someone wishing them dead. Maybe if more rappers did things like this people would understand that it is just art. It is not reality. Snoop aint a pimp and a gangsta . Snoop coach football and spend time with his son. Everybody else in the world gets to do their job and go home. Their job doesn't define them they are still people. But rappers have to be thugged out gangsta pimps 24 seven 365. Give me a break rappers are people too they just rap for a living.

Snoop is showing ya'll he is not the character he uses to sell records. He is a real person that cares about his family and community. That is some positive shit and I support the brother.
It may be an "art form" ... but people, like life, imitate art. Hence, you and them just can't say "it ain't real" and wash your hands of the images, the imitation of those images, and the undermining of Black society. Shit has consequences, and sometimes it stinks.

QueEx
 
Temujin said:
Snoop is doing something positive for his community and people are still hating. Its sad that people hate rappers so much that they can't do something positive without someone wishing them dead. Maybe if more rappers did things like this people would understand that it is just art. It is not reality. Snoop aint a pimp and a gangsta . Snoop coach football and spend time with his son. Everybody else in the world gets to do their job and go home. Their job doesn't define them they are still people. But rappers have to be thugged out gangsta pimps 24 seven 365. Give me a break rappers are people too they just rap for a living.

Snoop is showing ya'll he is not the character he uses to sell records. He is a real person that cares about his family and community. That is some positive shit and I support the brother.
You can be a groupie if you want to, but if you think everytime a celebrity does something "good' for the community, it's because he CARES, then it's working.

Good PR makes people loyal to your brand. The reason why people have been supporting the bullcrap he's put out is because of this demented sense of loyalty. Snoop is part of the PROBLEM, and unfortunately, the victims are too short-sighted to see this.

Like Que said, Life imitates Art. People (not everybody, come on) change their clothing, speech, behavior, opinions based on what they hear on CD and see on TV and videos. If he TRULY cared about the community, he would alter his message. Yes, it would impact him financially, negatively (because his audience has been trained to listen to only negative nonsense) but he would do it because he cares.

Him coaching these kids does two things.
1- creates inbred loyalty within a new generation of consumers, his very target audience. You mean to tell me you Snoop music BLASTING for 8 year olds?

2- creates loyalty within the community. Wheras people are deathly afraid to criticize anything ignorant, but willing to glorify any speck of any positive action. He will be able to put out garbage music for the next 15 years because he will always have a well-trained fan base that will support him.
 
It's good to see him doing good. Too many ppl get successful and forget where they came from. Keep doin ya thing snoop.

And yea he's prob doing it a lot because of money, but it's a win win situation. $100 for the first kid plus only $50 for the 2nd and that includes the equiptment... Shit in my H.S. the football team was free, but we had to pay $100 for two jerseys, and buy all our shit. They had equipment we could use, but some of that shit was so old the coach said he use to play with it and son was late 40's.
 
The Black HHH said:
YEAH! Now more kids can be like Snoop when they grow up.

How does somebody like this asshole get to be a role model? He is the definition of a "bitches and hoes" rapper, he's made two pornos, raps about drugs and gangs....

It's cool to see people doing things for kids, but it's sad to see people worship celebrity to the point that nobody is willing to call it what it is.

What happened to the "hit" that was out on him? Get some followthrough!

.... what you doin for yo hood except for puttin everything down. if a ---- is doin positive for his hood why does that make him bad. its not about kids growing up to be like him. post what you did for your hood. oh let me guess you dont have time right. :confused: :confused: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
catalina74 said:
.... what you doin for yo hood except for puttin everything down. if a ---- is doin positive for his hood why does that make him bad. its not about kids growing up to be like him. post what you did for your hood. oh let me guess you dont have time right. :confused: :confused: :lol: :lol: :lol:
If you remember New Jack City, Nino Brown gave money to the kids in his buildings, thereby earning their loyalty. Did that small act make up for the fact that he was POISONING his people? That his money was blood money? Of course not.

Whatever I do for my own community, I guarantee it won't end up in any newspaper.

Let's try not to make this personal. It's not about ME. I'm sorry if I offended your hero and life role model by saying that he sucks, but it needs to be said.
 
The Black HHH said:
If you remember New Jack City, Nino Brown gave money to the kids in his buildings, thereby earning their loyalty. Did that small act make up for the fact that he was POISONING his people? That his money was blood money? Of course not.

Whatever I do for my own community, I guarantee it won't end up in any newspaper.

Let's try not to make this personal. It's not about ME. I'm sorry if I offended your hero and life role model by saying that he sucks, but it needs to be said.

slick he's not my hero. i dont even like the dude. but i give him props for doin something for his hood and being there for his kids. so many of us get a couple of dollars and be like fuck the hood. ill give him his props on this. you should try going down to your local boys and girls club and give a few hours of your time.
 
Good to see him do something positive for the kids
and help the lower income families out.......f the haters
 
QueEx said:
It may be an "art form" ... but people, like life, imitate art. Hence, you and them just can't say "it ain't real" and wash your hands of the images, the imitation of those images, and the undermining of Black society. Shit has consequences, and sometimes it stinks.

QueEx

Life does not imitate art art imitates life. The reality of these artist is that they are people living their lives that create art. Snoop is not a gangsta he is a rapper. If grown folks like us can't comprehend that then of course kids aren't going to comprehend that. But the fault does not lie with the artist it lies with us. The consumers of hip-hop have created this environment where we demand that our artists be "real". That the things they rap about represent there real life is an illusion that the consumers have decided to accept. It is false and it is honestly rather childish. The measure of a man is his actions. If Snoop is living his life in a rightous manner by giving back to his community how can we condemn him because we are foolish enough to believe the image he portrays in music is the reality of Snoop as a man.

A lot of shit has consequences. Selling alcohol and guns has consequences a lot more harmful than selling rap music. Rap music does not kill people. Guns drugs and alcohol kill people. The condemning of rap music and rappers is racists. We don't condemn alcohol execs. They are revered in their communities. The berreta family is revered. Seagram is revered. White people can sell blatently harmful products and can place all the blame for their misuse on the consumers. However the creaters of rap which is not blatently harmful are condemned by our own community even when they are attempting to give back to the community.
 
The Black HHH said:
You can be a groupie if you want to, but if you think everytime a celebrity does something "good' for the community, it's because he CARES, then it's working.

Good PR makes people loyal to your brand. The reason why people have been supporting the bullcrap he's put out is because of this demented sense of loyalty. Snoop is part of the PROBLEM, and unfortunately, the victims are too short-sighted to see this.

Like Que said, Life imitates Art. People (not everybody, come on) change their clothing, speech, behavior, opinions based on what they hear on CD and see on TV and videos. If he TRULY cared about the community, he would alter his message. Yes, it would impact him financially, negatively (because his audience has been trained to listen to only negative nonsense) but he would do it because he cares.

Him coaching these kids does two things.
1- creates inbred loyalty within a new generation of consumers, his very target audience. You mean to tell me you Snoop music BLASTING for 8 year olds?

2- creates loyalty within the community. Wheras people are deathly afraid to criticize anything ignorant, but willing to glorify any speck of any positive action. He will be able to put out garbage music for the next 15 years because he will always have a well-trained fan base that will support him.

First off the last snoop album I copped was doggystyle so I am far from even being a snoop fan but lets address the pr issue.

If like you say his good deeds are good PR maybe other rappers will start also doing good deeds. Lets remeber he is not sponsoring a rapper camp he is sponsoring football. They are teaching children to play a sport that provides them with discipline teamwork and dedication. These things are much more real then whatever image you may receive from his music. These things impact childrens lives on a greater scale then music. This is reality his music is art. As you know Snoops fanbase is not made up of black innercity youths. Snoops fanbase is primarily made of young suburban white kids so I don't see how helping innercity youth does much for his core base.

Not to mention you are being a tad judgmental when you insenuate that a father wanting to coach his sons footbal team and improve the overall quality of his son's footbal experience is doing it more for his career than for his son. I tend to believe Snoop loves his son more than that. There are plenty of other things he could do for PR that would fit more with his gangsta rap image.
 
Temujin said:
Life does not imitate art art imitates life. The reality of these artist is that they are people living their lives that create art.
With the logic you've displayed with these comments, I don't now why I respond. Maybe because I like to argue; but maybe because I just can't stand by and let garbage pass for logic.

Its undisputed that people imitate the environment. High fashion designers don't march world-class models down a ramp NOT to make a statement. Automakers don't spend zillions of dollars NOT to make a statement. Interest groups and politicians don't develop slick ad campaigns NOT to make a statement. HNIC didn't hang the bitches at the top of this forum -- NOT to make a statement. Clearly, people are influenced by the shit they hear and see.

If the only game thats important is to make $$$ -- then fuck the community. Let the damn destruction continue. However, if responsibility to the community is ONE OF OUR GOALS, then cut the bullshit. A whole lot of the shit were doing in the name of $$$ is slowly but surely fucking up the fabric of our community. Son, WE are allowing shit to happen to OURS in the name of $$$ that we would have been up in arms about had it been done to US by the white man. What you're saying is, its okay for us, to fuck us. Well, fuck that.

I don't care whether Snoop or any other artist is a rapper or gansta. If the message is fucked up, so are they. And, my brother, its NOT whether mature adults can differentiate between gansta and rapper or trash messages, its that the gotdamn children can't and they're being exposed to the shit at every damn turn. There used to be a notion called: time and place for everything. As it stands, trash invades the time and its every place. I don't want mine (or OURS) to be exposed to a lot of the shit I see. Moreover, its apalling to me that one will put on the public persona damaging to our youth -- and then retreat to another world and enjoy the fruits of corruption ($$$ made from the trash) and say hey, it was all just a game -- when the lives imitating the game, lay wasted.

But the fault does not lie with the artist it lies with us. The consumers of hip-hop have created this environment where we demand that our artists be "real". That the things they rap about represent there real life is an illusion that the consumers have decided to accept. It is false and it is honestly rather childish. The measure of a man is his actions. If Snoop is living his life in a rightous manner by giving back to his community how can we condemn him because we are foolish enough to believe the image he portrays in music is the reality of Snoop as a man.
You're as full of shit as they are!!! The consumers are fucking children, young adults and impressionable minds. The consumers, unfortunately, like and live by fads. The more they are exposed to sex and violence -- the more they act out those images.

Back in the day, there used to be a saying: the white man operates his businesses in the hood and retreats by night to the suburbs with the cash to live the good life. Whats the difference in what you said about Snoop ??? (BTW, this isn't just about Snoop -- its all of them in general). Is it okay Temujin for the Snoops of the world to sell moral destruction to the hood -- and retreat to the good life with the cash ??? Throw a little cash back and say, its all good ??? Can't condemn em cuz they thrown a lil back. Fuck the children.

A lot of shit has consequences. Selling alcohol and guns has consequences a lot more harmful than selling rap music. Rap music does not kill people. Guns drugs and alcohol kill people. The condemning of rap music and rappers is racists.
LMBAO or ... crying MBAO. If they can do it to us -- hell, we can fuck us up too. We're just fucked. Not only that, but since when did it become racist to look out for the shit that is ruining your community ??? That neo-liberalism smacks of intellectual dishonesty.

QueEx
 
QueEx........

I agree with you 100% percent. Since the start of this Gangsta/hoe/Pimp garbage, I have slowly seen our communities go to waste.
 
QueEx said:
With the logic you've displayed with these comments, I don't now why I respond. Maybe because I like to argue; but maybe because I just can't stand by and let garbage pass for logic.

Its undisputed that people imitate the environment. High fashion designers don't march world-class models down a ramp NOT to make a statement. Automakers don't spend zillions of dollars NOT to make a statement. Interest groups and politicians don't develop slick ad campaigns NOT to make a statement. HNIC didn't hang the bitches at the top of this forum -- NOT to make a statement. Clearly, people are influenced by the shit they hear and see.

If the only game thats important is to make $$$ -- then fuck the community. Let the damn destruction continue. However, if responsibility to the community is ONE OF OUR GOALS, then cut the bullshit. A whole lot of the shit were doing in the name of $$$ is slowly but surely fucking up the fabric of our community. Son, WE are allowing shit to happen to OURS in the name of $$$ that we would have been up in arms about had it been done to US by the white man. What you're saying is, its okay for us, to fuck us. Well, fuck that.

I don't care whether Snoop or any other artist is a rapper or gansta. If the message is fucked up, so are they. And, my brother, its NOT whether mature adults can differentiate between gansta and rapper or trash messages, its that the gotdamn children can't and they're being exposed to the shit at every damn turn. There used to be a notion called: time and place for everything. As it stands, trash invades the time and its every place. I don't want mine (or OURS) to be exposed to a lot of the shit I see. Moreover, its apalling to me that one will put on the public persona damaging to our youth -- and then retreat to another world and enjoy the fruits of corruption ($$$ made from the trash) and say hey, it was all just a game -- when the lives imitating the game, lay wasted.


You're as full of shit as they are!!! The consumers are fucking children, young adults and impressionable minds. The consumers, unfortunately, like and live by fads. The more they are exposed to sex and violence -- the more they act out those images.

Back in the day, there used to be a saying: the white man operates his businesses in the hood and retreats by night to the suburbs with the cash to live the good life. Whats the difference in what you said about Snoop ??? (BTW, this isn't just about Snoop -- its all of them in general). Is it okay Temujin for the Snoops of the world to sell moral destruction to the hood -- and retreat to the good life with the cash ??? Throw a little cash back and say, its all good ??? Can't condemn em cuz they thrown a lil back. Fuck the children.


LMBAO or ... crying MBAO. If they can do it to us -- hell, we can fuck us up too. We're just fucked. Not only that, but since when did it become racist to look out for the shit that is ruining your community ??? That neo-liberalism smacks of intellectual dishonesty.

QueEx
Que..... you're on point.

It's tough both TO and NOT TO argue with groupies and "apologists"- people who only see fault in those who see fault. Some cats don't mind the drug dealers, pimps, and 'thugs' on their blocks, but actually hate people who go to school, get good jobs so that we can move away.

"Art Imitates Life" is a cliche. Art stopped imitating life about 50 years ago when "art" became corporate. The message that Snoop and other preach is NOT of the streets and it is not a message from Black America. It is a corporate message. He tells us what white people want him to.

If COINTELPRO taught us anything, hopefully we would see that THEY will effectively use US to defeat US. Sellout coons have their price, and instead of being an apologist, you need to take your star-struck, American Idolizing spectacles off and open your eyes.
 
On the real HHH. I know Snoop. Reality finaly set in for this kid. He's doing what he thinks is best. Feathers are getting rufled. What can you do. I've know snoop sincer beore the deep cover days when he treated me like a celebrity. You can't judge him strickly on that pimp shit.

I've been a critic of him in the past. I know his heart is really in this one. He's not perfect.

Look at where he came from, and now he's with Lee Iacoca? (sp)

His journey isn't complete. See how this plays out, then judge him.
 
QueEx said:
LMBAO or ... crying MBAO. If they can do it to us -- hell, we can fuck us up too. We're just fucked. Not only that, but since when did it become racist to look out for the shit that is ruining your community ??? That neo-liberalism smacks of intellectual dishonesty.

QueEx

Hip-hop cannot ruin what was already ruined. Our community were fucked up before hip-hop began. The violence, drug use and social irresponsibility has existed in our communities since slavery. You are kidding yourself if you think if all rappers sounded like common our communities would dramatically change. You and many others are confusing perception with reality.


First off I think the negative impact of hip-hop is grossly over-rated. Violence drugs and social inrresponsibility run rampant through our communities because our communities are poor not because of snoop dogg and 50 cent. People don't commit crimes because of Snoop and 50 but plenty of people have committed crimes from the pressures of poverty.

Second I agree that the images Snoop Dogg portrays are negative culturally. I don't however think we should stand in judgment of the cultural impact of art and influence the censorship of speech based on our perception of its impact (which as I stated earlier is overstated.) Every new form of art faces this pressure from the establishment because they do not conform. We need rebel music and if a few feathers get ruffled then they needed to be ruffled.

I just get sick and tired of this bashing of Hip-Hop for no apparent reason. Since hip-hop began we have had C.Delores tuckers and Barbra Bushes downing hip-hop now we have Essence and uppity negros downing hip-hop. For what. The negative imagery of hip-hop music has no effect on me or my family. Children learn from the people they see in life a lot more than the people they hear on the radio and tv.
 
The Black HHH said:
Que..... you're on point.

It's tough both TO and NOT TO argue with groupies and "apologists"- people who only see fault in those who see fault. Some cats don't mind the drug dealers, pimps, and 'thugs' on their blocks, but actually hate people who go to school, get good jobs so that we can move away.

"Art Imitates Life" is a cliche. Art stopped imitating life about 50 years ago when "art" became corporate. The message that Snoop and other preach is NOT of the streets and it is not a message from Black America. It is a corporate message. He tells us what white people want him to.

If COINTELPRO taught us anything, hopefully we would see that THEY will effectively use US to defeat US. Sellout coons have their price, and instead of being an apologist, you need to take your star-struck, American Idolizing spectacles off and open your eyes.


If Snoop is nothing more than a puppet of a vast corporate conspiracy to destroy the image of black people in America why are we attacking Snoop and not attacking the source. A true radical would see that the coon has no power. We knock down the coon and there is another coon to take his place. And maybe the next coon won't start a program to help disadvantaged youth.

Art as a minority in America has always been a coon show. When you are peddling your art to a majority that is not your own you will undoubtedly fall into stereotypes in order to become popular. This is the coon show that all black artists of all forms of media must deal with. We as a people until today have always understood the difference between the stage coon and the life coon. We understood the shows of the bojangles and the rochesters were not reality. We knew that these images were not reality because we had pride. Today we don't so we attack our artist even when they are doing good because we care a whole lot more about our image in the eyes of the majority.

I support the uplifting of our communities by anymeans possible. However attacking a puppet and leaving the hand is futile. If these rappers are puppets they have no power. If they have no power how can they be harmful.
 
Temujin said:
Hip-hop cannot ruin what was already ruined. Our community were fucked up before hip-hop began. The violence, drug use and social irresponsibility has existed in our communities since slavery. You are kidding yourself if you think if all rappers sounded like common our communities would dramatically change. You and many others are confusing perception with reality.
It must be proverbial glass. I see it as half full, but you see it as empty. But then again and correct me if I am wrong, but I recall you glorifying in what the Black community once was: the unity of the 60's, the flourishing of Black business, the ideals of Malcom, etc. The community has had problems but it was never fucked and it isn't fucked now. Don't get meladramatic to make a non-point.

With respect to rappers sounding a common theme -- positivity never hurt anyone one and inspires many. On the other hand, any message can inspire, hence, bad messages can and do inspire bad consequences, if you know what I mean.

Before you or anyone else gets it twisted, I'm not saying at all that all rap/hip hop is bad. Not the case. Who does it hurt, however, when WE fail to recognize what the bad is doing to us, especially our young ???

First off I think the negative impact of hip-hop is grossly over-rated. Violence drugs and social inrresponsibility run rampant through our communities because our communities are poor not because of snoop dogg and 50 cent. People don't commit crimes because of Snoop and 50 but plenty of people have committed crimes from the pressures of poverty.
People commit crimes for any number of reasons, some of which you mentioned. I note, however, that you admit that some hip-hop has a "negative impact." I'm concerned with that which is having a negative impact -- and I'm not willing to under-rate it.

Second I agree that the images Snoop Dogg portrays are <u>negative</u> culturally.

I don't however think we should stand in judgment

I just get sick and tired of this bashing of Hip-Hop for no apparent reason.

now we have Essence and uppity negros downing hip-hop.


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QueEx
 
Let me clear something up and not to beat a dead horse to the ground but I think its important that we understand the position hip-hop plays in relation to the overall well being of the Black people of America.

I agree with many of you who think gangsta rap has a negative impact on the culture of our youth as well as promotes stereotypes of our people.

I however do not feel that gangsta rappers should stop what they are doing.

I know this seems contradictory given my love of our people but I feel three very important concepts overide the negative impact hip hop has.
1.unity of our people
2. The economic power of hip-hop
3. The freedom of art

1. What promted my reaction to the dissing of Snoop by some posters was not a love of Snoops music it was a love of our people. Unity in the black community at this time is at an all time low. We have created economic and cultural lines of battle and we are on the verge of redifining ourselves as two people instead of one. This I feel may lead to a slight improvement in the well being of the middle to upper class but will definetly lead to the total degradation of our lower class. The dissing of Snoops good deed for the children of california is a classic example of this war.

Snoop, to many, represents everything that is wrong with the black community - misogyny, drug use, violence, gang activity. For this many feel he is a traitor to the race and any good deeds he does cannot overtake the negativity he has created. For this many would like to ostracize him from the race and some would like to eliminate his existence (HHH). To me this is counter-productive and a waste of a brother who has the potential to do great things for our community. True unity in our community starts with us. It begins with us embraceing and loving all of us. This does not mean we should praise the negative Snoop does but it does mean we should have love for brothers that do something positive. The black panthers and the NOI understood this that is why they went to the gang leaders, and the drug dealers, the prisons first. These are the first people we should try to bring into the fold.

2. The economic power of hip-hop.
If Snoop was rapping like common sense or talib kweli chances are he would not be selling enough records to start a youth football league. Gangsta rap is a global economic phenomenon. Hip-hop outsells all genres of music worldwide. It creates billions of dollars a year in revenues. And for the most part we are selling stereotypes too non-blacks. For many this is an unequal trade. For many they would rather hip-hop be a million dollar industry where the artists were not paid very well in order to protect the image of black Americans. I disagree. We own our image. Our image is perception it only relates to reality when an individual chooses. The stereotypes we sell affect our image in the minds of the world. However how these stereotypes affect us is up to us. I personally take money over image anyday. You can think I am a bum that I am stupid lazy whatever (they thought that before hip hop) so the basis of my pride was never my image in the minds of others. If we were financially stable as a people these negative images would have zero effect on us. I feel we can pimp these images to economic empowerment and do what we've always done, turn lemons to lemonade.

3. The freedom of art.
Yes Snoop is cooning. Yes he is selling negative images of our people to white people for money. Snoop is stage cooning. We however must understand that this is nothing new. If you study black art in America you will begin to realize that we have been playing this game since slavery. The movie Bamboozled illustrated the tight rope black artists must walk to be successful in America. Artists should be free they should be able to express the negative as well as the positive. Black people have always been the most creative people on the planet. This creativity is beauty way beyond the obvious stereotypes. Yes Sammy Davis junior cooned. But he was one of the greatest black entertainers of all time. Both Sammy and Snoop had to coon to achieve the level of success they have in America.The difference between a Sammy Davis junior and a Snoop Doog is that Sammy knew he was cooning while Snoop may not realize it. Also Sammy's black audience knew why he was cooning they understood the culture of the day. Though many hated him for it today he is revered. Today's haters seem to forget the struggle they see the money Snoop has and say why does he coon. I ask why do we all coon. We coon because we are still "invisible men" in America. We still "run nigga run". We ignore our own cooning as much as Snoop ignores his but this is our reality.

So in conclusion let us not be so quick to condemn these gangsta rappers. I believe their economic power as well as their cultural influence will play a pivotal role in the upliftment of our people if we embrace them. However if we ostracize them we will create a rift in our communities. Let us not feed into the divide and conquer mentality. And let us judge a man on his actions and let his art speak for itself.
 
gene cisco said:
Shit think about it, how many inner city families have 150 laying around for their kid to play football? Snoop is doing good IMHO.

Not many other celebs are doing half what he is doing, I think he really is trying to make a difference and is sincere.

Its always politcs in those "little league" sports anyway. Parents complain their kid aint playing, complain about other teams having older kids, yada yada yada.

Do ya dam thing snoop, proves you can be around and do for kids without being on some wacko jacko bull.

Dat schit ain't funny whitey. :mad:
 
The Black HHH said:
YEAH! Now more kids can be like Snoop when they grow up.

How does somebody like this asshole get to be a role model? He is the definition of a "bitches and hoes" rapper, he's made two pornos, raps about drugs and gangs....

It's cool to see people doing things for kids, but it's sad to see people worship celebrity to the point that nobody is willing to call it what it is.

What happened to the "hit" that was out on him? Get some followthrough!

Another dumb hip hop hatin troll talkin out da side of da mouth. :rolleyes:
 
Tomorrow's Headlines:

Hip Hop Mogul Sean "Diddy" Comes Responsible for the killing of Innocent Children (because he signed a rapper that told a student to "pop a cap in his problems")
 
to the issue..
big ups to snoop.. for putting together a league..

to those of you that criticise the brother for being who he was..

yall sound like some real bitches.

the reason he is and was.. is because of spinless whinners like yall that don't stand behind the music or artist or role models that NEED to be pushed to the fore front.. yall just cry about the ones that make it..

it's like being a hater.. s'cept you've chosen something slick to hate on.. something that u think everyone should fall in line with.. but u fail to factor your own ambiguity in the equation..

I hate niggas like that
 
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Looks like the "Ole Ball Coach" is setting a good example ...

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Koolinme said:
to the issue..
big ups to snoop.. for putting together a league..

to those of you that criticise the brother for being who he was..

yall sound like some real bitches.

the reason he is and was.. is because of spinless whinners like yall that don't stand behind the music or artist or role models that NEED to be pushed to the fore front.. yall just cry about the ones that make it..

it's like being a hater.. s'cept you've chosen something slick to hate on.. something that u think everyone should fall in line with.. but u fail to factor your own ambiguity in the equation..

I hate niggas like that
You promote his ignorance by spouting illogically and by spewing stupidity. I dont like Rap Music and I am falling out of like for Hip Hop because even at its best it is filled with self promotion , cracka jack wisdom, and just plain street thinking, I dont HAVE to support it....... Also, I think that there are rules on THIS BOARD about name calling.......Temujin is trying his best, to little avail, to prove his point eloquently and you are invalidating it........Now Snoop , if he is your hero, is probably going to jail..... Yeah right, PERFECT POP WARNER COACH GTFOH :angry:
 
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