Chris paul vs derek rose! Hellava matchup on nbatv!
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omg, some of you niggas went stone cold retard in here
lmao @ cp3 only gets assists on lobs to griffin and jordan
as if he's been playing with them dudes his entire career
wow!!!!
to even say that about any teammate he's thrown a lob to is ridiculous
man im going to bed
lmaoooooooooooooooooooo
lmao @ cp3 only gets assists on lobs to griffin and jordan
as if he's been playing with them dudes his entire career
wow!!!!
to even say that about any teammate he's thrown a lob to is ridiculous
man im going to bed
lmaoooooooooooooooooooo
Blah blah blah... For all that bullshit "makin his teamates better" talk. He sure does have a whole lotta nothing to show for it. Has he even been to the conference finals???
You cant have it both ways. Let you tell it Paul makes people into allstars... So if hes really doin all that there should be no excuse for him not making more noise in the playoffs... Shit is stupid to be honest. The best so called "pure pgs" have alley partners. Rondo just happens to have 3 HOFers to hit those shots. Nash had Marion in his prime, and Stat. Paul had Chandler inside and West outside. D-Will ran the pick and roll 100 times a game. Rose has no easy assists, maybe Rip this season. But how many open 3s does Korver miss, Booz shoots fadaways, Deng will dribble drive half the time so no assists there either. Its like unless the man avges 11 assist, hes not making people better.
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Just like 7 footers like dirk/durant aren't supposed shoot and play outside the paint, or like guards are supposed to be 6"2' or less, or players still wearing booty shorts. Com on!!! If thats the case the game would never evolve? That mean No Magic, No Jordan, or No Bird just because there potion wasn't suppossed to play there position that way!!! you killing me with this!!
Blah blah blah... For all that bullshit "makin his teamates better" talk. He sure does have a whole lotta nothing to show for it. Has he even been to the conference finals???
You cant have it both ways. Let you tell it Paul makes people into allstars... So if hes really doin all that there should be no excuse for him not making more noise in the playoffs... Shit is stupid to be honest. The best so called "pure pgs" have alley partners. Rondo just happens to have 3 HOFers to hit those shots. Nash had Marion in his prime, and Stat. Paul had Chandler inside and West outside. Rose has no easy assists, maybe Rip this season. But how many open 3s does Korver miss, Booz shoots fadaways, Deng will dribble drive half the time so no assists there either. Its like unless the man avges 11 assist, hes not making people better.
yeah, cp3 didnt play in the dominant western conference where he made fucking bum ass David West an all star
you right bruh!!!!
dude made hell of noise by taking a team of nobodies into the playoffs ever year
hell mentioning those other pgs is actually making my point
we are talking about point guards!!!!!
do you even understand the position?
hell magic couldve scored 50 a night but he made other niggas better and he didnt turn the rock over
yall acting like im hating on drose....
he's a great ball player
one hell of a scorer
he deserved the mvp
but he is not a true pg...period
he's not even in the top 3
yeah, cp3 didnt play in the dominant western conference where he made fucking bum ass David West an all star
you right bruh!!!!
dude made hell of noise by taking a team of nobodies into the playoffs ever year
hell mentioning those other pgs is actually making my point
You dont get props for 1 and dones with Jesus turning water into Allstars...
Hes got some all star appearances and nothing else. What do you think is gonna happen with the Clippers??? 1 and done... But hes soooooo great right??? Makes people better right???
what do you think is going to happen with the bulls
the same damn thing
theyre not winning shit
GTFOH!!!!
we are talking about point guards!!!!!
do you even understand the position?
hell magic couldve scored 50 a night but he made other niggas better and he didnt turn the rock over
yall acting like im hating on drose....
he's a great ball player
one hell of a scorer
he deserved the mvp
but he is not a true pg...period
he's not even in the top 3
The general consensus is, Cowboy fans are generally the dumbest fanbase. You clearly arent doing much to refute that
we're debating basketball and you bring up a football team
yet im the dumb one
let that sink in for a min, einstein
we are talking about point guards!!!!!
do you even understand the position?
hell magic couldve scored 50 a night but he made other niggas better and he didnt turn the rock over
yall acting like im hating on drose....
he's a great ball player
one hell of a scorer
he deserved the mvp
but he is not a true pg...period
he's not even in the top 3
EXACTLY!!!! If we go with your theory on how positions are supposed to be played Magic wouldn't be passing or scoring shit down in the paint because thats where his ass would have been if we apply your horrible theory!!!!! Cut it out, your making yourself look very badd right now!!!
The problem with this debate is simple. People choose understate what Rose can do, the role of his teammates as well as the offense while overstating certain aspects about Chiris Paul. He stays in the top 5 in assists and steals. He made Chandler better, he made West better, he made Landry and Ariza better,etc. Rose can set up teammates but the offense doesn't dictate that he does it in a way that leads to dunks while Paul has always been in an offense that does. Paul gets steals but he is nowhere near an elite defender. Rose shoots alot and quite frankly the Bulls need him to shoot alot. Paul has made certain guys better but stop acting like every guy that plays with him is improved when guys like Ariza and Landry have played better away from him.
EXACTLY!!!! If we go with your theory on how positions are supposed to be played Magic wouldn't be passing or scoring shit down in the paint because thats where his ass would have been if we apply your horrible theory!!!!! Cut it out, your making yourself look very badd right now!!!
but magic actually played pg... so whats your point?
now tell me how he played it?
did he shoot first?
did he turn the ball over?
did he manage the pace of the game?
holla at me
when ariza played better....wasnt it on a stacked lakers team?
man if yall are going to debate me
make sense!!!!!
no one is understating what rose can do
typically he scores 20 or more, gets you 6 or 7 assists with 3+ turnovers
thats simply not good pg play
I want a pg who scores 15-20 at most, gets me 10 or more assists, with 3 or less turnovers
that assist to turnover ratio equals wins
Rose's assist to turnover ratio is horrid...its simply not good pg play...unless youre on 2ksports
Are you serious? my point is that if we go by the ideas of what a ppl thought each position or player was supposed to do Magic wouldnt even play PG he would be a forward. SO your comment about how the PG positions is supposed to be played is played out!! Players evolve, the game evloves, postions evolve!!!!! smfh
Shits not rocket science!!
Are you serious? my point is that if we go by the ideas of what a ppl thought each position or player was supposed to do Magic wouldnt even play PG he would be a forward. SO your comment about how the PG positions is supposed to be played is played out!! Players evolve, the game evloves, postions evolve!!!!! smfh
that doesnt make a bit of sense as magic played pg in the way im referring to (and hell show me another magic type...maybe penny???)
the pg position has not changed at all
where are you getting this from?
only 1 or 2 players are shoot first pg's today, the other 28 are setting their teammates up on every play
so how has the position evolved?
evolution would be all of the pgs shooting first, passing second
come on dude
now that he has a team that can score buckets his numbers will be what you think they should be
but he will score more than 20 points
because he's scoring doesn't mean the other people aren't getting their opportunities
contrary to believe, it is possible and he will show us how.
the thing you keep leaving out of the assessment with rose is he NEEDS to score....
ill use cp3 as the example
last year in the playoffs when cp3 was getting people involved but not scoring, they didn't stand a chance against the lakers
when he went off for 30+ and had those assists they beat the lakers...
rose is going to go off and have the assists....and that's how they'll win. they NEED him to score, not what you'd like or someone else would like but every point he scores THEY NEED they're not high powered they're not built to be that way.
the argument you're making doesn't apply to rose
it applies directly to westbrook.
rose shows the willingness to pass
and the ability to score
and get better
and he isn't surrounded by people who years down the line will be hof'ers like....lets say rondo
now westbrook is a different animal
kevin durant ibaka hardin those dudes CAN fill it up every night
and they need a pg to facilitate their scoring. they don't need westbrook to score persay...they need him to facilitate and everything he scores on top of that is the gravy...
so if all of this was directed at westbrook i'd wholeheartedly agree.
with rose he is the meal...he is the meat and potatoes without him scoring they don't eat or sniff a win.
he doesn't have a stacked team..
like paul didn't have a stacked one...and he facilitated and made them as good as he could but they didn't even win until HE scored the points cause they needed him to.
this is the position rose is in and has been and finally being able to come out of just this season.
he is a true pg. by definition because he does what his team needs to win.
you just described allen iverson
the point ive made earlier in this thread and yall called me insane
im going to bed!!!!!
yall good brothers sleep well
You Just Dont Get It!!!! Me going back and forth with you will only make me look like and idiot too Smfh!!!!
AMEN!!!!!
no i didn't lmao
cmon man read what i wrote.
i gave you cp3 as the example...who we all deem to be a true pg.
fact when he didn't score 30 they didn't come close in the playoffs
when he did they came close and actually won
does that make him allen iverson?
if the team doesn't have scorers it doesn't matter if you shoot 0 times and pass 50 there will be no buckets lmao.
and it wouldn't make him a true point guard...it would make him useless because sometimes the team doesn't have enough so that the point guard can fall back
you name zeke and magic etc etc
look who they were passing to lmao.
rose only plays with people of that caliber during the all star game and during the summer for usa
no it just means he did what his team needed
as did rose....the leader and point guard of the team.
he has work to do, but i have complete faith given his track record that he will.
we'll revisit this midseason and see what his stats are looking like.
no i didn't lmao
cmon man read what i wrote.
i gave you cp3 as the example...who we all deem to be a true pg.
fact when he didn't score 30 they didn't come close in the playoffs
when he did they came close and actually won
does that make him allen iverson?
if the team doesn't have scorers it doesn't matter if you shoot 0 times and pass 50 there will be no buckets lmao.
and it wouldn't make him a true point guard...it would make him useless because sometimes the team doesn't have enough so that the point guard can fall back
you name zeke and magic etc etc
look who they were passing to lmao.
rose only plays with people of that caliber during the all star game and during the summer for usa
no it just means he did what his team needed
as did rose....the leader and point guard of the team.
he has work to do, but i have complete faith given his track record that he will.
we'll revisit this midseason and see what his stats are looking like.
youre still describing allen iversons sixers and you cant see it
really im going to bed this time
You Just Dont Get It!!!! Me going back and forth with you will only make me look like and idiot too Smfh!!!!
you said the pg position evolved into the drose type yet 90% of the leagues pg's play the position in the traditional way
yet somehow youre smart and im the idiot
ok bruh....good night!
Ariza was more efficient with the Lakers who had Derrick Fisher as their point. With Paul who is supposedly a guy that gets everybody better opportunities he shot just under 40 percent. Just like Landry's numbers were better with the Rockets. And as bad as Boozer has been with the Bulls he even shot 51 percent last year.
A PG is supposed to lead the offense and dictate and Rose does that. And so far this season he has cut his shot attempts by 5 and increased his assists by 3. And last year he increased his assists as well. Besides why have a player who isn't capable of carrying the team when his teammates are struggling which Rose has the ability to do. Even Steve Nash will drop 30 if he needs to. Hell Rose would be more effective in the type of offense that Chris Paul has played in during his career than Paul would be running Rose's offense.
see how can i take you seriously after i read that dumb ass first sentence
i mean the lakers ran the triple post...so truthfully a pg wasnt needed
i cant even read the rest now
i think you brothers will say anything at this point since youre bulls fans
im really really going to bed now!!!!!
The point is that guys like Ariza weren't helped by the presence of Chris Paul at all. You seem to conveniently ignore offensive scheme when comparing Paul and Rose but now you want to make that an issue? Point blank, guys like you overstate just how great Chris Paul is even to the point of downplaying a guy like Derrick Rose.
did you ever think?
hmmmmm, maybe ariza is playing more mins and taking more shots with paul
dude didnt become a starter until the hornets or some shit
Let me explain how I'm about to come at you because I don't want you to think that just because I'm a Bulls fan, that I'm just blindly jumping into an argument just to defend Rose.
In a later post, you said you described Magic with that line, right? So you're saying the difference between Magic and Rose is that Magic was pass-first and didn't turn the ball over as much, right? If so, I want to dispute that.
You down Rose for turnovers but Magic turned the ball over just as much, if not more, than Rose does. Rose hasn't turned the ball over more than 300 times a season in his 3 seasons in the NBA (202, 217, 278) but Magic has had quite a few seasons where he turned the ball over 300 times, 7 seasons he did (he won rings in 3 of those seasons), averaging 4 turnovers a game in some seasons. This is the first season Rose has averaged 4 turnovers a game but we only a week into the post-lockout season anyway so that number can and probably will go down.
Magic put up numbers like Rose did tonight. In '87, avg 20+ pts, 12 asts, 6 rebs, 3.8 turnovers but still won a ring that year. '88 avg 20 pts, 12 asst, 6 rebs, 3.7 turnovers, also won a ring.
Rose did 29pts (and like you said "if you take away the free throws, that's still 19 points), 8 rebs, 10 assists, 4 turnovers. Only real difference is that some times when driving, Rose opts to go for the shoot or the foul instead of the kick-out/assist. He gets fouled, he makes the shots and he racks the points.
It just doesn't make sense that you praise Magic but down Rose in the same breath. It's not like Rose's game isn't good PG play. He just goes for the shot more and that's really about it and there's nothing wrong with that.
Why pass while driving into the lane when you can score or get a foul and you happen to be pretty damn good at cutting through the defense in the paint and making free throw shots? Thibbs is like "Get them points!" Fuck what a PG is supposed to do when your team really needs those easy points.
I got my stats from here by the way:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsma02.html
In a later post, you said you described Magic with that line, right? So you're saying the difference between Magic and Rose is that Magic was pass-first and didn't turn the ball over as much, right? If so, I want to dispute that.
You down Rose for turnovers but Magic turned the ball over just as much, if not more, than Rose does. Rose hasn't turned the ball over more than 300 times a season in his 3 seasons in the NBA (202, 217, 278) but Magic has had quite a few seasons where he turned the ball over 300 times, 7 seasons he did (he won rings in 3 of those seasons), averaging 4 turnovers a game in some seasons. This is the first season Rose has averaged 4 turnovers a game but we only a week into the post-lockout season anyway so that number can and probably will go down.
Magic put up numbers like Rose did tonight. In '87, avg 20+ pts, 12 asts, 6 rebs, 3.8 turnovers but still won a ring that year. '88 avg 20 pts, 12 asst, 6 rebs, 3.7 turnovers, also won a ring.
Rose did 29pts (and like you said "if you take away the free throws, that's still 19 points), 8 rebs, 10 assists, 4 turnovers. Only real difference is that some times when driving, Rose opts to go for the shoot or the foul instead of the kick-out/assist. He gets fouled, he makes the shots and he racks the points.
It just doesn't make sense that you praise Magic but down Rose in the same breath. It's not like Rose's game isn't good PG play. He just goes for the shot more and that's really about it and there's nothing wrong with that.
Why pass while driving into the lane when you can score or get a foul and you happen to be pretty damn good at cutting through the defense in the paint and making free throw shots? Thibbs is like "Get them points!" Fuck what a PG is supposed to do when your team really needs those easy points.
I got my stats from here by the way:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsma02.html
I ALSO would like to know wtf is a 3 guard..
a three guard is someone who defends the three point line..... sucks...... you never heard of a three guard line up?..... how about a power point guard? sheeeet I seen magic play the point center....... 3 guards like jacking up 3's, hence the title. any more confusion...... look up bill Walton, he'll explain it.
derrick rose is the main player on the bulls to bring up the ball and start the offense, he is only a pg, some yall don't know hoops. a shooting guard (2 guard) is like rip Hamilton..... do you see rip bringing the ball up the court? no you don't, he comes off screens for a pass from the pg. basically, rose is a pg and only a point guard, end of discussion. with the stupids.
roses will makes his players better much like Jordan. Paula floor game is unstoppable but not souch crunch as roses. rose is better, the panel of NBA experts got last years MVP right for many reasons. go suck Paula Dick on ya own time..... bet he's q cry baby and self destructive, its who he is.
As listed on NBA.com boxscore for the game op is refering to.
http://www.nba.com/games/20111230/CHILAC/gameinfo.html?ls=gt2hp0021100049#nbaGIboxscore
Derrick rose was +16 and Chris Paul was -13. maybe this thread dies here. rose is best PG in league. thread killa.
http://www.nba.com/games/20111230/CHILAC/gameinfo.html?ls=gt2hp0021100049#nbaGIboxscore
Derrick rose was +16 and Chris Paul was -13. maybe this thread dies here. rose is best PG in league. thread killa.
I think there were 3 plays in the 4th quarter where Rose blew past Paul and it led to a basket/foul on the Clipper's defense.
The Clippers are easily overrated, just look what San Antonio did them a couple days prior when Parker outplayed Paul.
Good Game...
D. Rose is lightning fast man...
B Griff needs to work on his post game...His between the legs crossover is becoming very predictable.
I wouldn't say overrated, but they haven't adjusted to play with each other yet.
This was only their 3rd game playing together this season. Once Chauncey comes back, Reggie Evans and Eric we should be straight.
Defense can always be better. DJ is besting blocking shots.
This was only their 3rd game playing together this season. Once Chauncey comes back, Reggie Evans and Eric we should be straight.
Defense can always be better. DJ is besting blocking shots.
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